I've been pretty appalled that some of the MSM are telling people to fight with their families on Thanksgiving. If my family isn't going to treat me well over my thoroughly considered opinions, I'm going to have to stop going out there to see them. I'm not telling people to fight but that there are ways to deal with these things other than folding and I think that these may sometimes be sacrifices that are worth making.
So, to whoever reads this, have a blessed holiday season :)
I have agreed to disagree with two of my sons, but we agree that loving each other is more important than politics.
Where do you feel things went “wrong” with them? Do you think them becoming libtards could have been avoided? (Honest question.)
Maybe they are just young. Paraphrasing Churchill, If not Liberal wen young, you don't have a heart, but if not conservative hen older you don't have a brain.
This quote was a gross oversimplification young and old as it relates to liberal and conservative. I’ve never liked it because it does injustice to both.
Trump Acolyte below had more my experience. There was far less virtue signaling (I don't recall any) but I was more willing to give someone "down on their luck" the benefit of the doubt. Experience shows us that most people in the state consistently make choices to keep themselves there, and some of the compassion wears off.
Mother with 3 sons, all different political leanings answering, here. I have raised them to think independently. They have to work their way through this.
In this country, nobody agrees on everything. A rule of thumb is that, where 75% of the people agree on a point, we have a consensus. That still inevitably leaves 25% on the table.
There's nothing wrong with my kids, or my extended family, again a motley crew spanning the middle of the political spectrum. Nobody is hostile, we all love our country, and we all have different ideas about what to do about our many different issues.
News sources have a lot to do with differences in evaluating what to do next.
My kids have fine brains, and they are working through the process of developing adult minds. They will be more stable and capable if I respect them and their process.
As someone who was raised fairly conservative and got into the SJW nonsense for a while...sometimes parents don't make a mistake.
It is normal for kids to dissemble all their childhood beliefs as part of becoming an independent adult.
My parents gave me tools to deconstruct and analyze belief systems, and I would not consider myself an SJW any more. I voted for Trump and love the community that has sprung up around the MAGA theme.
I did, however, read enough Marx to be able to articulate arguments from the leftist perspective. This has come in very handy at times.
So it isn't even necessarily a bad thing to learn about social justice and institutional norms. Hell, I still agree with some of it, the Frankfurt School had strong words about western media. They identified a pattern a century ago that we here call "fake news." They understood what Edward Bernays did to our media, and what the purpose of the media is.
It's ok to disagree, and if someone decides they can't tolerate you because of politics, make sure they know family comes first and they are always welcome back. Make a point to reach out yearly and check in. People do come back to their senses. I did.
Family first.
Probably my little misadventure could have been avoided if my parents had actuay taught about Marxism at home. (I was homeschooled.) Preloading the belief matrix would have insulated me to some degree from the seductive arguments when I went away to college. Make no mistake, Marxism and its modern descendents are extremely seductive and sometimes there is not anything one can do but watch and support.
Good luck. When it comes time to teach my future children, they'll learn Marxism and capitalism and fascism, and the strengths of each, and how to destroy all of them.
Public school brain washing if I had to guess.
Not necessarily. I used to be a complete socialist. Or so I thought. I didn't pay attention to actual politics or what was actually happening. The left does a great job at scooping up all those types of people. When you have no responsibility, no bills, no kids, no job, just college, then it makes sense to you that the government should take care of everyone. You think believe that rich people are hoarding the wealth because it's easy and convenient. That's really it. The leftist way of thinking is always easiest.
You think "being mean to other people is bad. People being poor is bad. Being racist is bad" and of course the left, without a deep look, gives you the laziest path to what you think will address those issues.
They were raised right initially. Unfortunately, their mother married an intellectual atheist. While actually somewhat conservative as college instructors go, he systematically undermined their spiritual foundation.
My prayer is that when they are old, the foundation will be restored.
Jesus. I hope they'd be. If a father and son can't get along because of a difference in philosophy, there's no shot in Hell the country could ever get passed this rift.
Closer to 260 million. Just because they are evil bastards doesnt mean we need to be.
Better yet, pray for their wake-up call.
>If my family isn't going to treat me well over my thoroughly considered opinions, I'm going to have to stop going out there to see them.
My father and mother used to physically hurt me when I was young.
Because of this I never had a bond with either of them. I learned to look after myself from a very early age. Because of this, as an adult I never feel lonely and I never feel bored when I'm alone, which makes me a different creature to most normal people.
My advice for young teenagers is to never risk being kicked out of home until you're able to survive independently. 40% of homeless teenagers in the US are homosexuals who were honest with their parents. I'm not gay, but I spent more than a few nights on the street and it's a complete loss of power. Many predators target homeless teenagers because they know nobody will miss us and nobody will defend us.
I was able to get a good education and establish a good career, although during that time I grew so thin that I'd always be bruised and couldn't sit on hard surfaces or sleep on my back.
Working in fast food restaurants while being so hungry I was seeing purple spots was torturous. I'd often be forced to sit on the sidewalk and wait for the purple blotches to fade, to prevent the risk of falling down and damaging the elbows in my work uniform.
My advice is not to expect anyone to ever understand and when people blame you for not respecting your parents, feel happy for them that they don't understand.
Play your cards close to your chest ... but Don't forget to go back and humiliate your abusers after you become established and successful! Done right, you can really make their golden years shit.
Not gonna lie, I have a plan there regarding my step mother who is predictably the worst one. My other family members are just dumb and unscrupulous. I've tried to red pill them but one literally said at one point "I'm going to have to forget I saw this" and I mostly gave up after that.
I can't say that I understand first hand everything you've gone through but that last sentence I can understand and it strikes me as a very wise way to look at it.
This simply needs to be a book. Even a good short story in children's format that teaches that amazing moral. Thanks for your wisdom.
Luckily I only have one cousin that is a liberal who’s too far gone now and she knows not to bring politics up because she got her ass handed to her by facts a few years ago at Christmas.
The idea of not talking politics with family is not new. Elevating that idea to the level of breaking families apart is civil war behavior--as in, the media is trying to start a war. Whatever happens when you get together with family (and I hope they are loving and understanding people) don't let msm break apart your family connections that easily. Best of luck to you and yours.
The media are inciting domestic violence, so that the cops get called and the men involved lose their 2nd Amendment rights. Forever.
Restrained your full grown daughter because she was screaming in the face of your wife over Trump? The cops arrest you and take your guns. Fact
The Violence Against Women Act, signed under Bill Clinton in the 1990's makes a misdemeanor conviction or plea bargain a lifetime ban on gun ownership and it is retroactive.
Be very careful out there gentlemen. When families fight, neighbors call the cops. The Officers hands are tied, if any participants have ever lived under the same roof.
Lost all of those in an unfortunate boating accident.
You must have hit my boat; same thing happened to me!
LIberals aren't welcome here anymore.
What I fail to comprehend is why people today apparently believe that their opinion matters to others and must be revered. My family had animated discussions around the dinner table, sometimes presenting facts but mostly expressing opinions, and the farthest it ever went was "I don't share that opinion, and please pass the potatoes".
I’m hoping we can get back to that place. Why? Our ideas are better, but the Left is dug in irrationally, further fortified by the media. If the Left would just be a little more open minded- it would be easier to KAG
The problem, from my perspective, is that some people do not seem to be able do differentiate between fact and opinion. Far too often people think they're debating facts when in reality they're arguing opinions.
Similarly, the world view of left-thinking people is grossly superficial. According to one staunch democrat I had a discussion about guns with, my carrying a gun was okay while I was in uniform, but not while dressed as a civilian. Apparently we can turn criminals into good guys by making them wear uniforms.
Happy Thanksgiving! Happy Advent of the Season.
This is what we get for tolerating wrongness such as “all opinions are equal.” I am a Septuagenarian and very successful, and my opinion is not equal to a Zoomer’s.
Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and THE TRUTH.
What ever happened to respect your elders? Do they not think we may have a little more life experience?
It’s so important to respect elders (parents) that it’s one of the Ten Commandments.
Im sorry but you guys had a lot of time to fix these problems. Its a lot like the senator who has been in office for 30 years and is now running for president and promising change...
I am 30ish years old and the US has had the SAME list of problems my entire life. I respect my elders, more than most, But these posts seem to point to WHY your generation was so ineffective, actually losing all our liberties...
"your generation"
Whose generation? Doug is likely an "early Boomer" though he may be older than that. I'm an "X" I guess for whatever that's worth.
spez: apologies for format; bullets didn't take this time spez: apologies for formatting; bullets didn't take this time The advance of Progressive Collectivism in this country has been well underway for over 100 years, at least since Wilson. The Congress and States that passed the Amendments that destroyed this country (see below) were all passed long before most if not all of us were alive. We all need to work to undo the damage, but shitting on each other doesn't help.
16 1913 Income Tax (We made it more than 120 years without one, now people are brainwashed to think it's the only way to fund a government) 17 1913 Direct Election Senators (eliminate interests of the states in National policy) 18 1919 Prohibition spits on the rights of individuals, Directly leads to rise of FBI powers, ATF, and modern day Drug War
Those three Amendments gave you the America we see today, not Doug.
You gotta keep in mind that things in this country only turned to shit in the last thirty years, and during those thirty years the MSM, education, and politicians have constantly gaslighted the population. People are only waking up now, and look how much rot has been exposed just since Trump won. If someone told me three years ago that the government would spy on a candidate to benefit the incumbent I would have laughed. Now, it's simply a fact. And that's just one little thing we've seen.
Well, opinions are like assholes; everybody has one. On the other hand, I'd bet your facts and experiences are significantly more useful in forming your opinion than said Zoomers:)
I have no problem being around people who have different views than me but, if it's an option, I won't be around people who hassle me because I have different views than them. Family included. Do something you enjoy instead.
It's sad that we've gone from being able to discuss and critique ideas, to having to avoid them, and now to going out of the way to fight over them, with family, no less.
The leftist plots to destroy the American family are ratcheting up once again.
I get 'The Lecture' every time we are going to assemble as a Family Group; 'plz don't explain 'Q' or detail obama's crimes or government corruptiuons...'
And my stance is always the same, if any subject is broached I will speak Truth in anyone's face'.
Yesterday it was disney which started it all. Dinner at our house, 8 adults 3 kids, 4 of us are behind Trump but I'm the only Q supporter. One of the granddaughters had been taken to the disney flick by her aunt, and they wanted to watch the disney show on TV, some dog and pony show. I wouldn't allow disney in my house, and as the child began to whine I explained to her that I did not allow that in here. An adult wanted to argue with me about disney, so I mentioned pedophiles and drugged disney kid-stars, Gunn and Alefantis or whatever his name is, disney cruises to pedo island, and did it without causing the 5 year old to understand the precise nature of my objections because my grandbabies.
One adult wanted to argue, everyone else understood that it is my house, even if they disagreed it is my house. But one adult wanted to argue, and I am always happy to oblige, to me those are ALL opportunities to spread the Joy, teachable moments.
No blood no foul, and I pissed her off but she was exposed to the cure.
Good Times!!
I don't establish safe spaces at my house, come in and be welcome but expect no safe space. We can argue and disagree, but expect reality to exist here.
I've never thought you can one-on-one convince someone to change their politics. You can only influence their opinion of you which informs their views on your politics.
Dude, I'm just going to put this here in hopes it helps. These are the two videos that red-pilled me. The first one is a Ted Talk by Sharyl Attkisson. She was an exec prod at CBS for 18 years and she talks about how media, governments, big pharma, corporations, groups, etc. use various techniques to manipulate opinion. I admit, prior to seeing this video I was so naive. Far too naive than I should have been. But this opened my eyes and made me do a 180 degree turn around.
What I like about it and why I recommend it is because it's a very non-threatening, non political way of opening people's eyes to the possibility that the things they have been told, have read, have heard may not actually be factual. And of course, her impressive credentials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
And check out when it was posted. 2/15. Before Potus was even running, before he ever mentioned fake news.
And this is the one of Carl Jaco from CNN supposedly reporting from the war zone in Saudi Arabia but it turned out to be he was filming in a studio. Hmm. Again, check out when it was posted. Long before Potus was potus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF6wjf3RdNQ
I hope these help open some eyes. The certainly did open mine. God Speed.
Thanks for the resources. I tried this kind of thing at one point but one family member actually said "I'm going to have to forget I saw this". I mostly gave up after that. They are basically far leftists for personal reasons is what I've concluded.
I'm lucky. Out of my entire family the only two people we ever really fight with are the thot aunt (3 kids, 3 sperm donors) and the cousin who turned "bad girl".
TDS hit critical mass among my super-left in-laws about a year and a half ago. They wouldn't just want to discuss politics... they would carpet bomb me with MSM talking points and run for cover. It was infuriating and led to a lot of family fights.
After one particularly bad night where they called me a white nationalist and tried to embarrass me in front of my children, I called them both up and said, among other things, that they were the most intolerant people I've ever met.
Well, that was like kryptonite to them, and they've never brought up politics again.
Now I would have thought that me telling them we have an obligation to our families to at least pretend to get along, or that America is much better than they are acting would have done the job, but no... calling them intolerant, a word that has never bothered me, got them to knock it off.
tldr: Call lefties intolerant. They can not stand it.
Honestly, they want the name-calling fight because they know they can't win the logical one. It makes it difficult because they basically leave no ground for logic by jumping back and forth between talking points and name calling.
Before even approaching that kind of liberal, I usually try to get them to agree on a few basic ground rules for some discussion or else there really can't be one. No name calling, no goalpost moving etc. If you have enough patience, it will work sometimes.
Good luck buddy. Hopefully things won't go too bad. I hope more make a similar situation to yours. It's a discussion that needs to be had
Good luck, Pede. I'm estranged from my family over this. The truth comes bearing a sword, brother against brother, parents against children... Not since the Civil War have the divisions been so deep and broad, from Capitol Hill to my sister's house.
We're already fighting a low-level Civil War. It could get even uglier. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst and--courage!
The MSM is telling people to fight over Trump? Lol.
Shrink the size of your red pills. There is plenty of common ground between Demo and Repub voters right now, because of the unfair "impeachment" "procedure." That is why the polls are shifting away from impeachment.
Also, this is a good time to point out that the witnesses all admitted that they had no evidence of any high crime or misdemeanor.
Finally, the media many times left out the core information elicited on cross-examination, choosing instead to transmit Adam Schiff's highly inaccurate wrap-up smears or incomplete opening statements. This isn't fair, and voters know it.
Here's a solid how-to red pill guide. Should be stickied.
https://centipedenation.com/library/red-pilling-a-general-guide-to-enlightening-people-by-centipede-nation/
Honestly, I don't even know what my brothers think about politics. We never discuss it. My mother and I do discuss it.
My mother is on the fence. She really likes the idea of free healthcare, but she's also rational enough to understand that it won't actually be free, and will likely be as bad or worse than the VA.
She did vote for Trump last election, but I'm not sure where she'll go this election. If Biden wins the candidacy and manages to avoid self-destruction during the campaign season, she's going to have difficulty making a decision on who to vote for, I think.
I'll poke and prod at her, but I have to do it with actual facts. Fortunately, I have plenty of those to work with, and she's still very happy about how her retirement savings have developed under Trump.
Spent Thanksgiving at my daughter's house. They aren't very apolitical. They know my son and I are Trump supporters, but we don't discuss politics during the Holidays. So thing was on T.V. about Trump and their 10 years said he was mean. My son in law said, I don't know where that came from. They don't talk politics around the kids. I told him, most like she heard at school from a teacher. We had a nice day with family.
Don't fight with your family, but don't take shit either. The sad part is that the liberals have been programmed to think they have the moral high road, we'd never start shit with them over their opinions. Hopefully they realize their mistakes and resolve them with you before it's too late.
You can't pick family, you can however pick your friends. During this tough holiday season pede, pull up a chair, remember that you're part of the TDW family and we respect your opinion no matter what it is.
Get this patriot a coat and a brick.
Yupp. I'm tired of politely smiling and trying to ignore their constant BS. If they want to talk about politics fine; no longer the politely silent majority.
Plenty of actually tollerant family right here fren!
The goal of a great many interested parties is to completely demoralize the U.S. voting population. Do not walk away from your own family over the lies of the media.
Don't leave them out of your life. I let my relatives bash Trump all day. Let them hit the wall at full speed. Never reply to their political comments and make sure they know why. They are watching propaganda and you are not. If they ask you where you get your news, just reply with from the man himself, not some opinion on tv.
You gotta trigger your liberal looney family as hard as you can. Give your liberal Aunty a heart attack (joking).