A tax on corporations is nothing more than a tax on the consumer. Businesses see taxes as a cost of business, and those taxes are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
A corporate tax is used for people who don't have knowledge of economics to make it SEEM like they are receiving a tax break, when in reality it is a hidden tax on you. This is why you will see liberals yelling to raise corporate tax rates.
Charged for what I consume, like the cost of the product itself? How exactly does a tax figure into "what I use"? The government added no value to the product, so how can they justify charging me anything?
Or how about we extend that logic to government services. I use none, so why should I be taxed anything IF I USED NO services? See how quickly your logic contradicts itself?
The pay for what you use argument only works if you're intellectually bankrupt.
Taxation is immoral, end of story, and only a fucking theif would advocate for them. Just admit that you want free shit paid for by someone else so that you don't have to be responsible for yourself.
Eh minarchism baby. We need minimal government- mostly so we dont lynch innocent men. Im totally anarchist but thats the choke point, the NAP is great but there would still be cases where we need to prove innocence. The tax part is just, we do use the roads etc, theres got to be a way to pay even with a minimalist government
No that simple. No corporate taxes means you can shield all your income in the business and never pay any tax except for the small amount you give yourself as income. All business profits would essentially be a 401k. There would have to be some mechanism to prevent this.
In New York, we also have ridiculously excessive transfer taxes and even a "mansion tax" for property over $1 million. Funny, because in NYC I don't think you could find a property under a million, so you get to pay a nice little "mansion tax" on your 1 bedroom shoebox in manhattan. Nice.
While I appreciate the sentiment, 10% wouldn't come close to matching the current revenue.
The IRS publishes an Excel workbook every year, showing how much individual income taxes are paid by the various percentile groups. You can find it by searching for "17in01etr.xls".
In 2017, total adjusted gross income for individuals was $10.9T. Total income tax paid was $1.6T. That means the average tax rate was 14.6%, and a flat tax on all income would have to match that.
But, a flat tax starting at $0 income would never be considered, and there would be some standard deduction. I'll propose the current standard deduction: 24,800 for married filing jointly.
That would leave $7.3T in taxable income, and to match current revenue a tax rate of 21.6% would be required.
This wouldn't include Social Security and Medicare, which is another 15.3% (employee + employer combined).
As much as I would like to cut spending, that's not happening suddenly. The best we have been able to achieve is freezing the growth of government spending, and let the growth of the economy pass by.
This pie chart illustrates the magnitude of the problem:
Phase out entitlement programs to save the future of our nation! It's the only way, and only a matter of time before we will have to do it anyway. Don't like it, too bad. The future depends on it.
Are you assuming a lowered and simplified tax rate has zero impact on economy? Really so the economy stay exactly the same size even though everything just got easier and cheaper?
But you are right about Social security and medicare. That's actually the much larger tax bill for many Americans. But privatizing social security like they did in Australia would solve that problem.
In the 90's, Australia privatized their equivalent of Social Security because they correctly predicted the demographic bust, and switched to the national equivalent of a 401(k) with a safety net. Privatizing Social Security in the US is a good idea, or would have been back in the 80's while the baby boomers were hitting their prime earning years. But, I think we missed the opportunity.
For the last 40 years, Boomers have been paying for their parent's and grandparent's Social Security benefits, while making a down-payment on their own (to the the Trust Fund, which is up to about $3T). But, the Trust Fund will be exhausted about 2035. Without any changes before then, Social Security will have to cut benefits about 25% (as they can't borrow money) in 2035.
The unfunded liability (the difference between benefits promised and taxes expected to be collected) of Social Security is now about $43 trillion. Note it is not included in the official government debt, and is twice that. And therein lies the problem: how do you privatize Social Security when that much money is already owed to people that have been contributing all this time? Where does it come from? And since that unfunded liability assumes people will continue paying Social Security taxes, how do you replace that tax income if they instead contribute to their own account?
Spez: I should note that the $43T unfunded liability is for an "infinite horizon". If you only look at the next 75 years (through 2093), the unfunded liability is "only" $14T. If you are considering sunsetting Social Security during that period, it's a better estimate.
To give you a better idea of the magnitudes: This year, Social Security collects about $1.1T in payroll taxes and interest, and pays about $1.1T in benefits. The benefits payments will soon exceed income, and the difference will be made up from the Trust Fund. As the differential grows, the Trust Fund will be depleted faster. That's why it is expected to be exhausted in about 15 years.
Exactly, the child tax credit isn't fair to hardworking people who don't have kids. Just because you decided to have 5 kids shouldn't mean you get to pay less taxes, that was your personal choice.
I’d rather Americans be incentivized to have kids instead of the leftist bullshit that we need to import third worlders to keep up our population and then end up paying for those retards instead
Yeah it would be extremely short-sighted not to give them tax breaks. That equates to more tax revenue over longer periods of time considering people are having more kids as a result of it.
Y'know, as long as those kids don't grow up to be commies consuming autism bucks.
They would still get to enjoy the stable culture that results from their countrymen, on average, producing enough children to replace themselves. In their shoes, I'd choose that any day over being culturally enriched by replacement migration.
It really is fair. Those kids, just by virtue of growing up, getting jobs, and paying taxes, are the ones sustaining society.
If you are contributing to the future of society, you shouldn’t have to pay as much. (because over the long term, you are paying in 5x through your children)
The IRS is complicit. Literally says it's not their job to check SSN, just to file the forms they receive. They could literally do a 1 second check to see if the SSN is getting double charged or belongs to a fucking baby, they don't give a fuck.
That's absolutely incredible. How is their not an internal database that makes this impossible. The program or system the government uses must be designed to not pick this all up.
Well yeah duh the Democrats were campaigning down there so I'm not surprised. Since Americans dont vote for them they have to get votes from somewhere right?
I always say that Europe gives me hope. Not because it’s not an open air septic fire which it absolutely is. Rather, because it is at least 10 years ahead of us on the globalist Path to Progress, and it still hasn’t totally collapsed or erupted into civil war, so we should still have a few years of enjoying our clown world before it all falls down around us.
There are shady little signs along the roads every tax season in my town that advertise "get x dollars per kid tax credit", and I've heard stories about scummy people lending/selling other scummy people documentation on children to claim tax credits. We are suckers.
The wealthiest people on the planet want to replace a highly educated population, which has high standards, with a completely uneducated population with absolutely no standards. Therefore, as the standards of living get worse and worse, people won't know any better and won't complain. If you don't believe me, take a trip to Calcutta, go to one of the worst places where the river leads to the ocean, people live two feet away from the edge of a river which is black and putrid. They mark their property with rags made from old onion bags, with sticks stuck into the ground. They want to bring those people to first World countries, Forest the taxpayers to pay for everything, and then replace us with them.
The Earned Income Tax Credit is responsible for 95% of the "tote your note" "car dealers" in my city. Buy a car in February, have it repoed in May. Rinse and repeat. It's quite the enterprise.
It gets worse: the IRS requires American citizens to provide social security numbers for their kids on the tax return to prove the kids exist and are theirs. There is no such requirement for these illegal aliens' "kids." Most of them are probably nonexistent.
These departments only concern is to keep the morning flowing so that their budgets are not cut. That is the name of the government waste game. If these departments do not spend the money, it is taken away.
Whoaaa, "stealing Social Security numbers" is absolutely wrong. I'm hispanic, I know how that ish works. The illegal buys the SS number from someone, but the original "owner" of the SS number gets to claim taxes.
So a lot of that total amount that was stolen went to the American that sold his SS number out to someone else.
That's not to say the system shouldn't be corrected, I am against the selling of SS numbers. I just wanted to elaborate a little bit on the subject.
A tax on corporations is nothing more than a tax on the consumer. Businesses see taxes as a cost of business, and those taxes are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
A corporate tax is used for people who don't have knowledge of economics to make it SEEM like they are receiving a tax break, when in reality it is a hidden tax on you. This is why you will see liberals yelling to raise corporate tax rates.
OMG!! Someone who gets it! I've been preaching this for years!!! THANK YOU!
Flat Sales/use tax instead
THIS - Get charged for what you consume! Consume less, get charged less. This is the way to solve ALL the world's problems.
Charged for what I consume, like the cost of the product itself? How exactly does a tax figure into "what I use"? The government added no value to the product, so how can they justify charging me anything?
Or how about we extend that logic to government services. I use none, so why should I be taxed anything IF I USED NO services? See how quickly your logic contradicts itself?
The pay for what you use argument only works if you're intellectually bankrupt.
Taxation is immoral, end of story, and only a fucking theif would advocate for them. Just admit that you want free shit paid for by someone else so that you don't have to be responsible for yourself.
Eh minarchism baby. We need minimal government- mostly so we dont lynch innocent men. Im totally anarchist but thats the choke point, the NAP is great but there would still be cases where we need to prove innocence. The tax part is just, we do use the roads etc, theres got to be a way to pay even with a minimalist government
Also, taxation is theft.
I love people who understand taxation and economics. Preach, friend!
No that simple. No corporate taxes means you can shield all your income in the business and never pay any tax except for the small amount you give yourself as income. All business profits would essentially be a 401k. There would have to be some mechanism to prevent this.
That would be the easy answer.
Huh, my dad always says the same thing when it comes to taxes. 10% flat tax across the board for everyone.
Taxes are necessary but anything over combine 15% feels like slavery / people farming
I feel the same way about property taxes. With a sales or income tax, you don’t pay if you aren’t making money or buying something.
With property taxes, how can you even say that you own something? You are really just renting it from the government.
In New York, we also have ridiculously excessive transfer taxes and even a "mansion tax" for property over $1 million. Funny, because in NYC I don't think you could find a property under a million, so you get to pay a nice little "mansion tax" on your 1 bedroom shoebox in manhattan. Nice.
THIS
The US had no income tax for the first half of its existence. They are NOT necessary.
While I appreciate the sentiment, 10% wouldn't come close to matching the current revenue.
The IRS publishes an Excel workbook every year, showing how much individual income taxes are paid by the various percentile groups. You can find it by searching for "17in01etr.xls".
In 2017, total adjusted gross income for individuals was $10.9T. Total income tax paid was $1.6T. That means the average tax rate was 14.6%, and a flat tax on all income would have to match that.
But, a flat tax starting at $0 income would never be considered, and there would be some standard deduction. I'll propose the current standard deduction: 24,800 for married filing jointly.
That would leave $7.3T in taxable income, and to match current revenue a tax rate of 21.6% would be required.
This wouldn't include Social Security and Medicare, which is another 15.3% (employee + employer combined).
If 10% isn't enough to fund current spending, we need to cut spending.
As much as I would like to cut spending, that's not happening suddenly. The best we have been able to achieve is freezing the growth of government spending, and let the growth of the economy pass by.
This pie chart illustrates the magnitude of the problem:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Federal_Revenue_and_Spending.png
The outside ring of the pie chart shows that ALL of the current discretionary spending only comprises about 25% of the federal budget.
Phase out entitlement programs to save the future of our nation! It's the only way, and only a matter of time before we will have to do it anyway. Don't like it, too bad. The future depends on it.
You won't get any pushback from me. But politically, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible.
For fiscal 2019, interest payments on all federal debt (bonds, bills, etc) to all holders (individuals, countries, banks, etc.) is $390B.
In comparison, total individual income tax revenue is $1.7T. Corporate income tax adds another $221B.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Federal_Revenue_and_Spending.png
Are you assuming a lowered and simplified tax rate has zero impact on economy? Really so the economy stay exactly the same size even though everything just got easier and cheaper?
But you are right about Social security and medicare. That's actually the much larger tax bill for many Americans. But privatizing social security like they did in Australia would solve that problem.
In the 90's, Australia privatized their equivalent of Social Security because they correctly predicted the demographic bust, and switched to the national equivalent of a 401(k) with a safety net. Privatizing Social Security in the US is a good idea, or would have been back in the 80's while the baby boomers were hitting their prime earning years. But, I think we missed the opportunity.
For the last 40 years, Boomers have been paying for their parent's and grandparent's Social Security benefits, while making a down-payment on their own (to the the Trust Fund, which is up to about $3T). But, the Trust Fund will be exhausted about 2035. Without any changes before then, Social Security will have to cut benefits about 25% (as they can't borrow money) in 2035.
The unfunded liability (the difference between benefits promised and taxes expected to be collected) of Social Security is now about $43 trillion. Note it is not included in the official government debt, and is twice that. And therein lies the problem: how do you privatize Social Security when that much money is already owed to people that have been contributing all this time? Where does it come from? And since that unfunded liability assumes people will continue paying Social Security taxes, how do you replace that tax income if they instead contribute to their own account?
Spez: I should note that the $43T unfunded liability is for an "infinite horizon". If you only look at the next 75 years (through 2093), the unfunded liability is "only" $14T. If you are considering sunsetting Social Security during that period, it's a better estimate.
To give you a better idea of the magnitudes: This year, Social Security collects about $1.1T in payroll taxes and interest, and pays about $1.1T in benefits. The benefits payments will soon exceed income, and the difference will be made up from the Trust Fund. As the differential grows, the Trust Fund will be depleted faster. That's why it is expected to be exhausted in about 15 years.
Exactly, the child tax credit isn't fair to hardworking people who don't have kids. Just because you decided to have 5 kids shouldn't mean you get to pay less taxes, that was your personal choice.
I’d rather Americans be incentivized to have kids instead of the leftist bullshit that we need to import third worlders to keep up our population and then end up paying for those retards instead
Yeah it would be extremely short-sighted not to give them tax breaks. That equates to more tax revenue over longer periods of time considering people are having more kids as a result of it.
Y'know, as long as those kids don't grow up to be commies consuming autism bucks.
Yeah, that's good for society. It also dwarfed by the amount you pay for public schools, even if you have no kids.
So sterile people or people who have no children for religious / freedom reasons are not treated fairly then?
They would still get to enjoy the stable culture that results from their countrymen, on average, producing enough children to replace themselves. In their shoes, I'd choose that any day over being culturally enriched by replacement migration.
This is the way! But seriously our nation's youth are the future and we want to raise them not import them!
It really is fair. Those kids, just by virtue of growing up, getting jobs, and paying taxes, are the ones sustaining society.
If you are contributing to the future of society, you shouldn’t have to pay as much. (because over the long term, you are paying in 5x through your children)
The IRS has been allowing and encouraging this fraudulent condition for a very long time.
The IRS is complicit. Literally says it's not their job to check SSN, just to file the forms they receive. They could literally do a 1 second check to see if the SSN is getting double charged or belongs to a fucking baby, they don't give a fuck.
Yep. I know someone who worked with them and they openly admitted they protect illegals.
Of course shit like this happening.
"pro bono" in this case must mean "under the table" then.
The people who fill out the paperwork always take a cut of the booty.
That's absolutely incredible. How is their not an internal database that makes this impossible. The program or system the government uses must be designed to not pick this all up.
Trump stopped it! TRUMP 2020!
sauce?
Well yeah duh the Democrats were campaigning down there so I'm not surprised. Since Americans dont vote for them they have to get votes from somewhere right?
This pisses me off it's lying and stealing
Meanwhile, if you have an error in something like your mileage, you get audited and threatened with prison time...
I paid $41 in penalties on a $9 underpayment. The IRS first claimed I owed them $96,000 and threatened to end me. Free money for Mexicans though!
I always say that Europe gives me hope. Not because it’s not an open air septic fire which it absolutely is. Rather, because it is at least 10 years ahead of us on the globalist Path to Progress, and it still hasn’t totally collapsed or erupted into civil war, so we should still have a few years of enjoying our clown world before it all falls down around us.
Just to ruin your bubble, what if they can afford it because we foot the bill? (we do)
CLEAN UP THE IRS
No human is illegal, bigot! /s
Anarcho-Tyranny
There are shady little signs along the roads every tax season in my town that advertise "get x dollars per kid tax credit", and I've heard stories about scummy people lending/selling other scummy people documentation on children to claim tax credits. We are suckers.
Get rid of the child tax credit, everyone should pay the same tax
...at least for children who do not exist, or are not US citizens. ?
Hey man, I heard you were a bad dude.
The wealthiest people on the planet want to replace a highly educated population, which has high standards, with a completely uneducated population with absolutely no standards. Therefore, as the standards of living get worse and worse, people won't know any better and won't complain. If you don't believe me, take a trip to Calcutta, go to one of the worst places where the river leads to the ocean, people live two feet away from the edge of a river which is black and putrid. They mark their property with rags made from old onion bags, with sticks stuck into the ground. They want to bring those people to first World countries, Forest the taxpayers to pay for everything, and then replace us with them.
Bernie Bros plan...
Give my guvment more munnies...
Until Trump, all of DC was in on this sh-t. Most big business is in favor of this stuff.
And yet if a Republican shorted the IRS $100 by accident, a SWAT team in armored vehicles would arrive at his house.
I paid $41 in penalties on a $9 underpayment. The IRS first claimed I owed them $96,000 and threatened to end me. Free money for Mexicans though!
The Earned Income Tax Credit is responsible for 95% of the "tote your note" "car dealers" in my city. Buy a car in February, have it repoed in May. Rinse and repeat. It's quite the enterprise.
Surprise? What's that? I no longer understand this emotion.
It gets worse: the IRS requires American citizens to provide social security numbers for their kids on the tax return to prove the kids exist and are theirs. There is no such requirement for these illegal aliens' "kids." Most of them are probably nonexistent.
These departments only concern is to keep the morning flowing so that their budgets are not cut. That is the name of the government waste game. If these departments do not spend the money, it is taken away.
bUT iLLeGaLs PaY tAXeS!!!!
The ONLY book you should read to figure out how fucked you are by privately owned FED. https://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/B00E0SER8Y/
We all live in an open air banker prison.
Doesn't surprise me...
Hey, wait, how do you file your taxes without a SS number?
Not sure if you’re joking, but illegals steal millions of SSN’s to obtain jobs, something tacitly endorsed by out old pal Bathhouse Barry.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/illegal-immigrants-cited-in-theft-of-39-million-social-security-numbers
Yeah, sarcasm on my part. Stolen SS numbers piss me off.
Some good news:
The Supreme Court will rules we can prosecute them for identity theft false tax returns
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/divided-supreme-court-rules-illegal-immigrants-cant-be-shielded-from-id-theft-prosecution
The same people that say your mandatory drive to work is an optional non-work related non-deduction.
This piss's me off
The IRS needs to be scattered to the winds!
I didn't want to upvote since it's at 1776 :(
Well stealing our money is their game. Tired yet?
We were living in a Socialist country all along. Some of us never knew it.
I can see it now. The democrats candidates will start campaigning to allow tax credits for illegals’ kids in Mexico.
Whoaaa, "stealing Social Security numbers" is absolutely wrong. I'm hispanic, I know how that ish works. The illegal buys the SS number from someone, but the original "owner" of the SS number gets to claim taxes.
So a lot of that total amount that was stolen went to the American that sold his SS number out to someone else.
That's not to say the system shouldn't be corrected, I am against the selling of SS numbers. I just wanted to elaborate a little bit on the subject.