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We need just the opposite —- that no government worker or official or elected office holder can be repressed in their religion. Government worker includes the schools. We are getting a whacked out government & schools because they have created a gray curtain to obscure from us who we are allowing to lead us.
I want anyone holding government position to freely express their personal views and beliefs.
Short sighted.
I want government workers to work and shut the fuck up. Else we will have our publicly funded workspace overrun by religions of all kinds.
Muslims prays 5 times a day. Are we supposed to pay for them to do that? What about satan worshippers? Are you telling me we have to be exposed to their brand of religion, too?
Look, there is no agenda in asking for common ground. It’s the only way to respect everyone while not promoting any specific religion. If you want to start a business that requires praying as one of its policies you are free to do that. This is about public spaces where tax dollars fund workers.
If we don’t want to roll out the red carpet for Muslims to sniff each others asses 5 times a day at school events, it must be accepted that no religion shall be expressed while “on the clock”.
The problem is, this guy seems to not understand the difference between freedom of religious expression and forcing a non-private entity to accept his expressions of faith while being paid. The rules are designed to make these type of public places equal ground for all people. It’s imperative that we agree upon expressing our individual faith while on our free time. Otherwise we are asking for a religious fight in all aspects of our lives where each religion thinks it’s better than the next.
The reason I don’t like public displays of religious expression by employees is couched in not wanting my tax dollars supporting their personal beliefs. Battling the schools on common sense policies designed to create common ground is fruitless and only happens if you believe your faith to be superior to all other faiths.
We can’t pick one religion to govern everyone so avoiding them all together in these public instances is the best option.
This is freedom of religion. Sorry if you don't like it but thats the facts. By your own rationale, you could in theory fire someone for wearing a cross pendant then, right?
And regardless, your point doesnt make sense. You claim "concern that your tax dollars are funding their personal beliefs?" What does that even mean? Whether or not the man prays breifly after a game doesn't change the fact that he is paid from taxes and has personal beliefs. Your money is funding him either way.
Also the playing field is equal.... after the game he could pray to whomever he wants or no one at all.
If he’s the coach, his actions represent the school. The school wants to remain neutral with respect to religion so his display on the field is unacceptable. It doesn’t matter that the game has ended as he is still on the grounds. The school is trying to appease tax payers who don’t want to facilitate the representation of any specific religion in publicly funded areas.
Freedom of religion isn’t being usurped here. He is still free to worship as he sees fit. The school has a policy which he has chosen to break. His termination has zero effect on his religious proclivities.
It’s important to understand, he didn’t just say a little prayer to himself while walking off. They were making it a spectacle of sorts where players and coaches from both teams were joining in and it became a regular occurrence. This is why he was canned. He threw it in their face that his conviction to Christ was superior to school policy. Now he’s fighting a losing battle.
As for the firing of an employee, if a private employer has a no jewelry policy then wearing a cross pendant could get you fired. However, the employer is not able to fire an employee solely based on their religious beliefs.
Ultimately, you just happen to approve of the brand of prayer going on here. You have to think about a display you don’t like to understand the basis for creating an neutral area. What would you think if Satan worshipping was going on where a group of people all gathered around and chanted during the sacrifice of a live chicken or some shit? Freedom of religion, right? Just think of the myriad of ridiculous bullshit that would consume our common areas by groups who feel the need to spread their religious beliefs. It would be unbearable.
Because praying is only one of many things Christ compels us to do. (Like loving our neighbor.)
Or do you have the One True Guide on what is and is not acceptable behavior in our most definitely not a state religion religion? Where can I find this sacred text?
I love Christ.
I also respect my employer and their policies. This man made an issue out of his conviction and flew it in the face of the administration. He chose to do this with full knowledge of the repercussions. There is nothing stopping him from practicing his religion on his own time. I hope you see the difference.
You don’t see the difference because you have a personal connection to the religion in question. If 50 Muslims gathered on the field and bowed down to the East after every school event, I guarantee you would sing a different tune.
It would help me know not to send my kids to that school.
And no, the 1st amendment was never meant to cover Islam or Buddhism or any other religion than Christianity. Even the Jews had to write to Jefferson to ask if they were covered, and his response wasn't super-positive about other religions.
Actually, right now the hiding of religion is a camouflage that is enabling subversives to take control of government and school positions while being able to appear neutral and secular.
I would rather have the rich diversity of seeing government workers have total freedom of expression, rather than them quietly and nefariously pushing their agenda out of public view.
They are free to practice their religion. Just not while working. It’s not a hard concept to understand. You just have a personal connection because you share a certain belief system.
Do you really want to see all religions being practiced unchecked at work? What’s the limit? Can we put up a middle finger to the tax payer and sit on our thumbs all day if our religion calls for that? What happens when one religion takes exception with another? Is there a hierarchy which will quell any use of religion to promote the religion? Wouldn’t Muslims be at the top since “allah is greater”? How would you possibly be able to host, promote and separate all the different religions?
Eventually, you would come to the conclusion that there isn’t room or the will to have all religions bunched up in a small space, practicing their religion while being paid by the tax payer.
Sounds like you have such an emotional attachment that you can’t see the forest for the trees.
Nobody wants you to stop any of the positive attributes around which you have formed your life. If you want to try and understand the aspect of neutral ground, you will have to add ‘respect for others’ to that list you just rambled off.
I don’t think you’re a bad person or anything of the sort, but your personal belief system will not supersede the separation of church and state.
It’s not what he did that is objectionable, but rather when and where.
You are missing the bigger point. Religion is the framework for existence. It defines what is good and what is evil.
What you are proposing to do is to replace the national religion with your own. Or rather, impose your idea of what the national religion should be on others.
The separation of church and state is one-way: The state cannot interfere with church affairs, but the church can and should definitely impose itself on the state. The state is a creation of the church, after all. The moral framework that says we should have a government and it should be of a certain form and perform a certain way is all given to us by God through religion.
This is why Western Civilization was only possible in Europe, with Christianity. Every other culture and religion that stumbled upon the essential ideas that form Western Civilization lost its tenuous grasp on it because their religions were wholly contrary to it. Only Christianity is compatible with modern science and civilization. Indeed, both of those things are creations of it.
You can no more ask a man to abandon his religion than you can ask a fish to swim without water. You'd better hope that we all practice our religion all the time, whether at work or at play, in government or in private. The essential element is religion, and we have got to get that right, and running around telling people what they can and cannot do when it comes to religion is exactly the sort of thing we cannot be doing. (And if you understand Christianity at all, is exactly the sort of thing we shouldn't be doing.)
Find any Muslim crap about how much better allah is over god and expect those sentiment to be expressed to you all day long and on every stitch of the grounds.
It would be a fight of religions at publicly funded workplaces.
But it's ok and bold and brave to kneel for the Anthem right...bullshit
Freedom of religion has somehow turned into Freedom from religion. Clown world
We need just the opposite —- that no government worker or official or elected office holder can be repressed in their religion. Government worker includes the schools. We are getting a whacked out government & schools because they have created a gray curtain to obscure from us who we are allowing to lead us.
I want anyone holding government position to freely express their personal views and beliefs.
Short sighted.
I want government workers to work and shut the fuck up. Else we will have our publicly funded workspace overrun by religions of all kinds.
Muslims prays 5 times a day. Are we supposed to pay for them to do that? What about satan worshippers? Are you telling me we have to be exposed to their brand of religion, too?
Look, there is no agenda in asking for common ground. It’s the only way to respect everyone while not promoting any specific religion. If you want to start a business that requires praying as one of its policies you are free to do that. This is about public spaces where tax dollars fund workers.
If we don’t want to roll out the red carpet for Muslims to sniff each others asses 5 times a day at school events, it must be accepted that no religion shall be expressed while “on the clock”.
The problem is, this guy seems to not understand the difference between freedom of religious expression and forcing a non-private entity to accept his expressions of faith while being paid. The rules are designed to make these type of public places equal ground for all people. It’s imperative that we agree upon expressing our individual faith while on our free time. Otherwise we are asking for a religious fight in all aspects of our lives where each religion thinks it’s better than the next.
The reason I don’t like public displays of religious expression by employees is couched in not wanting my tax dollars supporting their personal beliefs. Battling the schools on common sense policies designed to create common ground is fruitless and only happens if you believe your faith to be superior to all other faiths.
We can’t pick one religion to govern everyone so avoiding them all together in these public instances is the best option.
"forcing a private company"
It was a school district, meaning it was a public/government entity.
Good catch, I have edited that to “non-private”. Private entity could do whatever they want with respect to religion.
What are you talking about?
This is freedom of religion. Sorry if you don't like it but thats the facts. By your own rationale, you could in theory fire someone for wearing a cross pendant then, right?
And regardless, your point doesnt make sense. You claim "concern that your tax dollars are funding their personal beliefs?" What does that even mean? Whether or not the man prays breifly after a game doesn't change the fact that he is paid from taxes and has personal beliefs. Your money is funding him either way.
Also the playing field is equal.... after the game he could pray to whomever he wants or no one at all.
If he’s the coach, his actions represent the school. The school wants to remain neutral with respect to religion so his display on the field is unacceptable. It doesn’t matter that the game has ended as he is still on the grounds. The school is trying to appease tax payers who don’t want to facilitate the representation of any specific religion in publicly funded areas.
Freedom of religion isn’t being usurped here. He is still free to worship as he sees fit. The school has a policy which he has chosen to break. His termination has zero effect on his religious proclivities.
It’s important to understand, he didn’t just say a little prayer to himself while walking off. They were making it a spectacle of sorts where players and coaches from both teams were joining in and it became a regular occurrence. This is why he was canned. He threw it in their face that his conviction to Christ was superior to school policy. Now he’s fighting a losing battle.
As for the firing of an employee, if a private employer has a no jewelry policy then wearing a cross pendant could get you fired. However, the employer is not able to fire an employee solely based on their religious beliefs.
Ultimately, you just happen to approve of the brand of prayer going on here. You have to think about a display you don’t like to understand the basis for creating an neutral area. What would you think if Satan worshipping was going on where a group of people all gathered around and chanted during the sacrifice of a live chicken or some shit? Freedom of religion, right? Just think of the myriad of ridiculous bullshit that would consume our common areas by groups who feel the need to spread their religious beliefs. It would be unbearable.
So if I'm a coach I can't practice my religion?
Because praying is only one of many things Christ compels us to do. (Like loving our neighbor.)
Or do you have the One True Guide on what is and is not acceptable behavior in our most definitely not a state religion religion? Where can I find this sacred text?
I love Christ.
I also respect my employer and their policies. This man made an issue out of his conviction and flew it in the face of the administration. He chose to do this with full knowledge of the repercussions. There is nothing stopping him from practicing his religion on his own time. I hope you see the difference.
I don't see the difference.
Am I supposed to hate my neighbor while I am on the clock?
You don’t see the difference because you have a personal connection to the religion in question. If 50 Muslims gathered on the field and bowed down to the East after every school event, I guarantee you would sing a different tune.
It would help me know not to send my kids to that school.
And no, the 1st amendment was never meant to cover Islam or Buddhism or any other religion than Christianity. Even the Jews had to write to Jefferson to ask if they were covered, and his response wasn't super-positive about other religions.
Actually, right now the hiding of religion is a camouflage that is enabling subversives to take control of government and school positions while being able to appear neutral and secular.
I would rather have the rich diversity of seeing government workers have total freedom of expression, rather than them quietly and nefariously pushing their agenda out of public view.
Amen to that.
Everyone should be free to practice their religion, from the president down to the janitor, regardless of where they work or who their employer is.
Silencing people because they work for the state is the exact opposite of freedom.
They are free to practice their religion. Just not while working. It’s not a hard concept to understand. You just have a personal connection because you share a certain belief system.
Do you really want to see all religions being practiced unchecked at work? What’s the limit? Can we put up a middle finger to the tax payer and sit on our thumbs all day if our religion calls for that? What happens when one religion takes exception with another? Is there a hierarchy which will quell any use of religion to promote the religion? Wouldn’t Muslims be at the top since “allah is greater”? How would you possibly be able to host, promote and separate all the different religions?
Eventually, you would come to the conclusion that there isn’t room or the will to have all religions bunched up in a small space, practicing their religion while being paid by the tax payer.
I will stop practicing my religion on the clock now.
How does that sound?
Sounds like you have such an emotional attachment that you can’t see the forest for the trees.
Nobody wants you to stop any of the positive attributes around which you have formed your life. If you want to try and understand the aspect of neutral ground, you will have to add ‘respect for others’ to that list you just rambled off.
I don’t think you’re a bad person or anything of the sort, but your personal belief system will not supersede the separation of church and state.
It’s not what he did that is objectionable, but rather when and where.
You are missing the bigger point. Religion is the framework for existence. It defines what is good and what is evil.
What you are proposing to do is to replace the national religion with your own. Or rather, impose your idea of what the national religion should be on others.
The separation of church and state is one-way: The state cannot interfere with church affairs, but the church can and should definitely impose itself on the state. The state is a creation of the church, after all. The moral framework that says we should have a government and it should be of a certain form and perform a certain way is all given to us by God through religion.
This is why Western Civilization was only possible in Europe, with Christianity. Every other culture and religion that stumbled upon the essential ideas that form Western Civilization lost its tenuous grasp on it because their religions were wholly contrary to it. Only Christianity is compatible with modern science and civilization. Indeed, both of those things are creations of it.
You can no more ask a man to abandon his religion than you can ask a fish to swim without water. You'd better hope that we all practice our religion all the time, whether at work or at play, in government or in private. The essential element is religion, and we have got to get that right, and running around telling people what they can and cannot do when it comes to religion is exactly the sort of thing we cannot be doing. (And if you understand Christianity at all, is exactly the sort of thing we shouldn't be doing.)
It’s not silencing anyone. It’s asking them to work without raising their personal belief system when they are on the job.
That's silencing. With every word I speak, I praise God. I find God in science, in engineering, in everything.
Do you want me to stop speaking the truth, because that's part of my religion too?
Rich diversity? Now you sound like a flaming liberal.
The first amendment is under attack.
This could easily make it to SCOTUS as it is definitely a 1st Amendment issue.
No, it’s not. This man has no leg to stand on as the school policy was in place before he accepted the job.
"A Washington state football coach..." 'Nuff said. The cucked northwest.
Find any Muslim crap about how much better allah is over god and expect those sentiment to be expressed to you all day long and on every stitch of the grounds.
It would be a fight of religions at publicly funded workplaces.