Russia told OPEC to go fuck itself at the OPEC+ meeting this weekend. He walked out on 'em because they could not agree on a ppb. They didn't think he would actually walk, but he did. Then he raised production and dropped his ppb to below the OPEC rates.
MbS retalliated by further dropping the ppb, and it spiralled into a price war. At midnight last night, ppb was at 27, which is IN-SANE.
At market open today, everyone was foaming at the mouth to cover margin calls and reposition their assets accordingly. And, predictably, the dow dropped.
The WuFlu is still pummelling markets, but oil won't cause a world-ending catastrophe. That is because oil's inherent value far outstrips any other asset on the planet. As such, it cannot hang out at prices so low forever.
Meanwhile, all our shale oil is fucked for now, because the high cost of production means producers can only make a profit if ppb is over about 50. Now that we are at around half that, shale will take a big hit, which is dicey because the shale oil market is highly leveraged right now.
All this bullshit has pushed the VIX sky-high. And that means errybody wants their money OUT of the market until the VIX drops.
This will be a fire sale. But it won't break us.
PREPPERS, HOPE YOURE READY. Pulling through shit like this with flying colors is what makes us Americans.
Your explanation is the first one I understand. Stupid Econ sub turned lefty and everybody else is stupid with their desire to tie this to Trump. Thank you.
Honestly Biden winning Super Tuesday had a lot to do with it.
If there’s any chance at all of a Bernie presidency then everyone would be right to panic. A Biden presidency would just be another period of boring shittiness and stagnation like the Obama years, but a Bernie presidency would be a new Great Depression.
I'm fuming. Here in France, with the barrel prices the same as they were in 2009, the price of the liter of gas is 0.30€ to 0.40€ higher in comparison. I can pay up to 100€ to fill the 70L (about 18.5 gallons) tank full with diesel, from empty.
I think we are getting fucked over somewhere, and it's not taxes only (despite being royally fucked by taxes already). /rant
Indeed. It doesn't help that we don't produce our own crude (because we don't have any) but that high?
It's my pet-conspiracy-theory that the government, ruling that 80kph (~50MPH) shall be the new maximum authorized speed on national roads compared to 90kph (~56MPH), saw that law-abiding citizens would respect the new limit, that fuel economy would be improved as a result, leading to less gas sale, and added more taxes to make up for the loss.
Sounds like Putin smelled an opportunity to do more damage to the US stock market and took it. That's OK, we'll get cheaper gas at the pump and once we decouple from China, which is happening now as everyone forges new supply chains outside of China for their manufacturing and packaging, then we'll really see our stock market take off.
I have a stock heavy portfolio which has plummeted recently. But I keep it that way because I'm aiming long and can absorb the bad risk hits. Not planning on changing anything, as all this fear and volatility is an integral part of any sane person's investment expectations. You catch the bad and you catch the good, that's just how it works.
Yeah, I thought it was purely over Coronavirus. But Scott Adams started talking about the Russia-Saudia Arabia oil price war and realized THAT is the major reason. Hopefully, my company can take it, I'm in the industry.
“Crude has become a bigger problem for markets than the coronavirus,” Adam Crisafulli, founder of Vital Knowledge, said Sunday. “It will be virtually impossible for the [S&P 500] to sustainably bounce if Brent continues to crater,” he added.
Some idiot floated the notion early that our toilet paper is made in China, and that it would "run out", and you wouldn't be able to wipe your ass soon.
Nevermind that it is PAPER. Paper that comes from the Pacific North-west.
Hell TP could be made from recycled paper like what was tried in the early 90s.
Liberals trying to incite panic to tank the markets. They open dream about creating the second Great Depression so that a "1917 Soviet Union can happen here."
"If the markets collapses and the people can't eat out or drive to find food they will have to accept Bernie and Socialism as the only way for the world to survive!"
Oh that? It's proof that this "pandemic" is really just hysteria. If this or any virus is world changing, we have no information to know it. But the toilet paper helps remind you that you are not seeing something rational.
BIG BILLIONAIRES ARE TANKING THE MARKET TO PUSH TRUMP OUT IN 2020 "IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID" BLOOMBERG AND STEYER ARE HELPING ANYWAY THEY CAN, ALSO THEIR GOOD FRIEND GEORGE SOROS. THEY WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO GET TRUMP OUT
Well it turns the anger and fear of the citizens there turned against each other instead of the government. So that would be a good reason for the CCP to steer the narrative in that direction.
As much as I would like lower gasoline prices, I hope the price of oil stabilizes.
If (when?) it drops below the cost of production in the US, it will discourage exploration. In the long run, that will hurt our job market (especially in oil-producing regions), and make us vulnerable when the price goes back up again.
It already dropped below that. Wti $45 is for shale to remain profitable. Its $34 right now. The shale companies may be able to survive longer with fed dropping rates though.
Its a crisis...sell those shares!! In the historic crash of September 2008 (the 'great' global financial crisis) I took $8k to my stockbroker THE NEXT DAY and snapped up some bargains (BHP, QANTAS, Westfied and Coca Cola); boring blue chip stocks. And just watch, plenty of people will be buying up BIG quite shortly imo. Thank-you Donald!
[Sidenote:-only made money (short term) on BHP. Also the ONLY company that paid a regular dividend. Seriously, if yr into 'gambling' its more fun going to the casino than waiting for your 'traditional' shares to flourish (like watching paint dry)...Invest in pro..per..tee. Or gold.
Nothing wrong with a diverse portfolio. Buy land yes. Buy precious metals, silver seems the most affordable right now, and now is the time to pick up a few stocks. Utilities can be good buys since everyone needs water and electricity.
Good advice. Seriously thinking of buying a wad of gold and 'hiding' it...: :)
However plenty of investors like to have fun too...and I reckon those cheap penny mining stocks would be fun; like 1000:1 bets. Obviously scams galore but you can get a handful for pittance.
Deaths from flu (assuming 50,000 people) in percentage points based on a population of 330 million people in the USA: 0.015%
Deaths from coronavirus in percentage points based on a population of 330 million people in the USA: 0.0000067%
I will say that some of the stock market crashing is legit and not based on media driven fear but real issues considering Chinese manufacturing and supplying has become so integral to our economy and the rest of the world's economy... and therein lies the problem that President Trump has been trying to correct since he was elected.
Hysteria led by govt retirees with guaranteed pensions who might not be able to buy a second vacation home until next year when market recovers. My heart bleeds.
yes, but the history of oil cartels like OPEC is rife with this kind of shit... infighting and breaking up and then reorganizing and getting back together, and like that.
It will all work out because if there is NO oil cartel, things get fukkin cray-cray, and nobody likes the volatility. This will work itself out.
Well, this can be a good thing if the U.S. government starts stockpiling oil in the national reserve for future use if the price goes up too much.
Bad thing is it may idle stateside extraction facilities for a while.
But our Natural Gas economy keeps on running as normal.
MARKET PLUNGES OVER OIL, NOT THE CORONAVIRUS
Mar 9, 2020
RUSH: The Drive-By Media wants you to think that this massive stock market plunge is because of the coronavirus. Some of it is, but the vast majority of this has nothing to do with the coronavirus.
But you would still quarantine yourself if you show any symptoms, right? Especially if you've met someone who recently traveled to endemic areas.
The CPAC guy should have never went if he knew there was a chance he was infected. Hell, even if he was completely asymptomatic but he knew he was exposed, he endangered the lives a lot of people with his selfishness. Cruz was absolutely right to self-quarantine.
I do think you think for yourself and use logic and reason. Disagreements arise on how the logic and reason is applied. Do you believe other people don't?
a short term fake news panic just primes the stock market for a big rebound like a slingshot. One thing you can always count on is people like to make money, despite their political affiliations. People will jump in and it will recover hard.
Follow up tweet:
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!
I just commented this in another thread...
Russia told OPEC to go fuck itself at the OPEC+ meeting this weekend. He walked out on 'em because they could not agree on a ppb. They didn't think he would actually walk, but he did. Then he raised production and dropped his ppb to below the OPEC rates.
MbS retalliated by further dropping the ppb, and it spiralled into a price war. At midnight last night, ppb was at 27, which is IN-SANE.
At market open today, everyone was foaming at the mouth to cover margin calls and reposition their assets accordingly. And, predictably, the dow dropped.
The WuFlu is still pummelling markets, but oil won't cause a world-ending catastrophe. That is because oil's inherent value far outstrips any other asset on the planet. As such, it cannot hang out at prices so low forever.
Meanwhile, all our shale oil is fucked for now, because the high cost of production means producers can only make a profit if ppb is over about 50. Now that we are at around half that, shale will take a big hit, which is dicey because the shale oil market is highly leveraged right now.
All this bullshit has pushed the VIX sky-high. And that means errybody wants their money OUT of the market until the VIX drops.
This will be a fire sale. But it won't break us.
PREPPERS, HOPE YOURE READY. Pulling through shit like this with flying colors is what makes us Americans.
Your explanation is the first one I understand. Stupid Econ sub turned lefty and everybody else is stupid with their desire to tie this to Trump. Thank you.
Wait.....wait....wait...
I was told Biden winning Super Tuesday was responsible for the market rising last week.
Surely he did something this week to cause it to go down?
Everything before the drop was Obummers economy and this week is Trumps. It's all really very simple.
Up, Trump had nothing to do with it. Down, Trump is incompetent
Biden endorsing Trump is what caused the market crash, plain and simple. (/s)
Honestly Biden winning Super Tuesday had a lot to do with it.
If there’s any chance at all of a Bernie presidency then everyone would be right to panic. A Biden presidency would just be another period of boring shittiness and stagnation like the Obama years, but a Bernie presidency would be a new Great Depression.
Yes, he did a great job succinctly explaining the true situation.
I noticed that silver is not skyrocketing. The cash from sell off is not going there.
I'm fuming. Here in France, with the barrel prices the same as they were in 2009, the price of the liter of gas is 0.30€ to 0.40€ higher in comparison. I can pay up to 100€ to fill the 70L (about 18.5 gallons) tank full with diesel, from empty.
I think we are getting fucked over somewhere, and it's not taxes only (despite being royally fucked by taxes already). /rant
Thats a brutal price.
I buy diesel in bulk around $450 per 1175 Liters. We buy about 650 Metric Tons at a time.
Indeed. It doesn't help that we don't produce our own crude (because we don't have any) but that high?
It's my pet-conspiracy-theory that the government, ruling that 80kph (~50MPH) shall be the new maximum authorized speed on national roads compared to 90kph (~56MPH), saw that law-abiding citizens would respect the new limit, that fuel economy would be improved as a result, leading to less gas sale, and added more taxes to make up for the loss.
Sounds like Putin smelled an opportunity to do more damage to the US stock market and took it. That's OK, we'll get cheaper gas at the pump and once we decouple from China, which is happening now as everyone forges new supply chains outside of China for their manufacturing and packaging, then we'll really see our stock market take off.
ayy thanks for the correction!
Simple answers are bad. Here's why....
Muh nuance.
It'S CoMpLiCAteD.
Oil issues making US oil refinement unplausible. Baddish.
Stock market down. Well most people don't really have savings. So not sure it hurts that much.
I have a stock heavy portfolio which has plummeted recently. But I keep it that way because I'm aiming long and can absorb the bad risk hits. Not planning on changing anything, as all this fear and volatility is an integral part of any sane person's investment expectations. You catch the bad and you catch the good, that's just how it works.
Real Russian Collusion.
Fake news is so arrogant that they believe they control the economy.
Wow this information war is heating up.
Saudi Arabia is now DESTROYING OPEC.
Awesome!
And Iran.
And Venezuela.
Yeah, I thought it was purely over Coronavirus. But Scott Adams started talking about the Russia-Saudia Arabia oil price war and realized THAT is the major reason. Hopefully, my company can take it, I'm in the industry.
Good article here:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/dow-futures-drop-700-points-as-all-out-oil-price-war-adds-to-coronavirus-stress.html
This was coordinated.
What's Trump Winning the Most on?
Economy
Dems: let's tank the economy! MSM, Fed, China ASSEMBLE!
Fuck them. They did this. We all know it.
What's with people buying out toilet paper?
Some idiot floated the notion early that our toilet paper is made in China, and that it would "run out", and you wouldn't be able to wipe your ass soon.
Nevermind that it is PAPER. Paper that comes from the Pacific North-west.
Hell TP could be made from recycled paper like what was tried in the early 90s.
Liberals trying to incite panic to tank the markets. They open dream about creating the second Great Depression so that a "1917 Soviet Union can happen here."
"If the markets collapses and the people can't eat out or drive to find food they will have to accept Bernie and Socialism as the only way for the world to survive!"
r/politics in a nutshell.
Well, I guess wiping one's ass in comfort is better than dying of thirst and starving. I dunno.
Oh that? It's proof that this "pandemic" is really just hysteria. If this or any virus is world changing, we have no information to know it. But the toilet paper helps remind you that you are not seeing something rational.
Idiot Dems as nominees is bad as well. A possibility of a Bernie presidency is hard on markets
Taking the sledgehammer of truth to the house of narrative cards. Keep it up, GEOTUS!
CNN: Trump meddles in Russian affairs
Russia hacked the oils using bookface ads! In peach!
“Who is your daddy and what does he do?”
IMA PUT MY SHINIEST TIN FOIL HAT ON:
BIG BILLIONAIRES ARE TANKING THE MARKET TO PUSH TRUMP OUT IN 2020 "IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID" BLOOMBERG AND STEYER ARE HELPING ANYWAY THEY CAN, ALSO THEIR GOOD FRIEND GEORGE SOROS. THEY WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO GET TRUMP OUT
Nice hat, I own one just like it.
I'm banking on GEOTUS having anticipated this malarkey 3 years ago, and having a plan to deal with it.
That’s so weird. Can’t “Puppet” Trump just use one of his many “back channels” to Putin and “collude” with him to stop by offering a “quid pro quo”?
So weird that Putin spent all that $38,000 on 7 unemployable troll farmers to meddle in our elections only to sabotage Trump after all that.
Maybe Hillary should tweet about it and how the “Far Right” Facebook company is mean to her!
Anyone else think china shutting their country down is a lowkey boycott as a response to the tariffs imposed by trump?
Why is it always bats?
I just watched Contagion also!
Well it turns the anger and fear of the citizens there turned against each other instead of the government. So that would be a good reason for the CCP to steer the narrative in that direction.
As much as I would like lower gasoline prices, I hope the price of oil stabilizes.
If (when?) it drops below the cost of production in the US, it will discourage exploration. In the long run, that will hurt our job market (especially in oil-producing regions), and make us vulnerable when the price goes back up again.
It already dropped below that. Wti $45 is for shale to remain profitable. Its $34 right now. The shale companies may be able to survive longer with fed dropping rates though.
All of them, or just some of them?
Saudi Arabia claims their cost of production is just $4/barrel:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenrwald/2019/01/09/why-it-matters-how-much-oil-saudi-arabia-has/
NP, I thought that's what you meant. I remember an article long ago about the how the price of oil had dried up revenues to Iran.
Venezuela was already functionally bankrupt at $55 a barrel. I can't imagine Venezuela staying afloat much longer at <$30 per barrel. Watch Venezuela!
greatest president ever. God Bless
Its a crisis...sell those shares!! In the historic crash of September 2008 (the 'great' global financial crisis) I took $8k to my stockbroker THE NEXT DAY and snapped up some bargains (BHP, QANTAS, Westfied and Coca Cola); boring blue chip stocks. And just watch, plenty of people will be buying up BIG quite shortly imo. Thank-you Donald! [Sidenote:-only made money (short term) on BHP. Also the ONLY company that paid a regular dividend. Seriously, if yr into 'gambling' its more fun going to the casino than waiting for your 'traditional' shares to flourish (like watching paint dry)...Invest in pro..per..tee. Or gold.
Sounds good. I remember the good 'ol days of pork bellies and orange juice.
Nothing wrong with a diverse portfolio. Buy land yes. Buy precious metals, silver seems the most affordable right now, and now is the time to pick up a few stocks. Utilities can be good buys since everyone needs water and electricity.
Good advice. Seriously thinking of buying a wad of gold and 'hiding' it...: :)
However plenty of investors like to have fun too...and I reckon those cheap penny mining stocks would be fun; like 1000:1 bets. Obviously scams galore but you can get a handful for pittance.
silver is super super cheap right now...
Stock markets having a sale...time to buy!
Deaths from flu (assuming 50,000 people) in percentage points based on a population of 330 million people in the USA: 0.015%
Deaths from coronavirus in percentage points based on a population of 330 million people in the USA: 0.0000067%
I will say that some of the stock market crashing is legit and not based on media driven fear but real issues considering Chinese manufacturing and supplying has become so integral to our economy and the rest of the world's economy... and therein lies the problem that President Trump has been trying to correct since he was elected.
Only caution is on Enron fate. Don't put all your eggs into one basket.
Hysteria led by govt retirees with guaranteed pensions who might not be able to buy a second vacation home until next year when market recovers. My heart bleeds.
We just have to market our oil as organic and sustainable and gluten free, and we can triple the price per barrel.
Don’t the Russians and the Saudis normally get along? It’s not like them to act an ass all of a sudden.
yes, but the history of oil cartels like OPEC is rife with this kind of shit... infighting and breaking up and then reorganizing and getting back together, and like that.
It will all work out because if there is NO oil cartel, things get fukkin cray-cray, and nobody likes the volatility. This will work itself out.
Gas just broke under $2 here
Well, this can be a good thing if the U.S. government starts stockpiling oil in the national reserve for future use if the price goes up too much.
Bad thing is it may idle stateside extraction facilities for a while.
But our Natural Gas economy keeps on running as normal.
MARKET PLUNGES OVER OIL, NOT THE CORONAVIRUS Mar 9, 2020 RUSH: The Drive-By Media wants you to think that this massive stock market plunge is because of the coronavirus. Some of it is, but the vast majority of this has nothing to do with the coronavirus.
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/03/09/market-plunges-over-oil-not-the-coronavirus/
So im buying lpwer this week 👍
I think Trump has an obvious interest in not creating any panic. I think this virus is legit. Fuck I hope it's not tho
But you would still quarantine yourself if you show any symptoms, right? Especially if you've met someone who recently traveled to endemic areas.
The CPAC guy should have never went if he knew there was a chance he was infected. Hell, even if he was completely asymptomatic but he knew he was exposed, he endangered the lives a lot of people with his selfishness. Cruz was absolutely right to self-quarantine.
Being unhealthy plays a part. Age plays a larger part.
20-39 years old = 0.2% death rate
80+ years old = 14.8% death rate
The herd is sometimes right. The herd is sometimes wrong. Don't discount something because the herd agrees with it.
I do think you think for yourself and use logic and reason. Disagreements arise on how the logic and reason is applied. Do you believe other people don't?
Tnats ok, I finally ua e a reason to buy in.
too bad the media wouldn't do their job and report on this...
a short term fake news panic just primes the stock market for a big rebound like a slingshot. One thing you can always count on is people like to make money, despite their political affiliations. People will jump in and it will recover hard.
Buy low, sell high
Why isn't abundant cheap oil good for us?
Melissa Francis on Outnumbered explained this in great detail.
Yup except the Saudis playing by a new book.
Marching off to war goes the Russians again