Agreed. It should be posts marveling over the USA's astonishingly LOW rates which are so low its not worth much of a story. Other than how low they are.
A part of me wants to believe that people are overreacting. Another part of me thinks about stories from Italy that are saying their health care system is overloaded because of this virus, that they are having trouble treating people, and how the whole country is on lockdown, making me think it's way more serious than any other disease I've seen in my lifetime.
I just know one thing, either it is serious or it isn't - regardless of where you live. If it is serious, then we better take it serious globally otherwise more countries are going to look like Italy very quickly.
Edit: Oh and I know there are definitely leftist assholes who see this virus an opportunity to prevent Trump's re-election, who actively want the economy to crash so they can blame it on Trump. But that doesn't tell us anything about how serious this virus is, for that it's probably best to look at other countries...
That's part of it. But, they are also seeing normally healthy people suddenly becoming critically ill.
Some of those may be a reprise of what happened with the "Spanish Flu" in 1918: most of the fatalities in the US were age 20-40. Researchers believe it may have been caused by what is now called a "cykotine storm": where a normal immune system overreacts and drowns the victim with their own fluids in their lungs.
Children hadn't fully developed their immune systems, and older people either had weakened immune systems or latent immunity from something similar that pre-dated the young adults.
Yes, that's another reason. Due to socialized medicine limiting investment in infrastructure, Italy has less critical care beds per 1M population than most Western countries.
As a result, they are having to decide who gets life-saving critical care, and who is left to die:
This is what the Trump administration (and state governments) are trying to prevent. We have more critical care beds, but on average about 2/3rd of them are already occupied by people with other serious illness or injury. And those other serious illnesses and injury will continue to happen, and will compete with this virus.
Yep -- Italy welcome the dirty into their country and rolled around with them like they were groomed for it --- same with Germany and other high import zones, those numbers are under reported and no capacity to deal with this
I think it has more to do with not having enough qualified medical personnel to handle the really bad cases and they have a large elderly population. They are also a lot of people packed into a small country, relative to the size of the US.
Something I think a lot of people don't realize is that the really good doctors, the specialists that are great. They don't stay in countries with socialized medicine. They come to the US to work. The doctor that put in my PED was from Sweden. He's the Director of Interventional Radiology and a Professor at a prestigious uni in my state. He didn't stay in Sweden. He's a great doctor and he's here, saving lives in the US, not in Sweden.
Staff shortages are a big part, but certain equipment is in short supply.
Italy has reported that 10% of their hospital admissions that tested positive for COVID-19 have required mechanical ventilators, and they don't have enough.
The US reportedly has about 160,000. The UK is so worried they won't have enough, they are asking manufacturers to retool production lines to produce them.
Yes but Italy is the most extreme worst case scenario (outside of Wuhan) so it wouldn't be helpful to use that as the expectation.
The other thing is, for no good reason, way way too many people mistakenly believe Italy somehow started ahead of everyone else. They did not. The USA was 'seeded' the same time as Italy as were many others.
The USA is 'where Italy is' today. Italy isn't a glimpse into the future. It's running concurrently with most others and the USA.
One might say Japan and South Korea are ahead of others by maybe a week or two.
And it's not that serious unless you're old, frail, have a disease. It's very mild on children and the average adult (no preexisting lung illness) will just have a routine flu. Which does suck.
I'm a 'Suspected Case' here in Mainland China for what it's worth. They think I got it from a 5 year old little girl who did not actually get that sick herself but waiting to hear back from her father who had indeed been in Wuhan city a day before I was hanging around with him.
And it's not that serious unless you're old, frail, have a disease.
Honestly that doesn't make it much better. Sure, if you're young and healthy it's less scary. But what about the people who are not? They shouldn't die either.
You might not be at risk yourself, what about your parents for example? Maybe you only get mild symptoms yourself but your parents die or something like that...
Right that will be horrifying if all our parents die in disease and suffering however this is speaking to people who are young, healthy, no other serious diseases:
You aren't getting 'AIDS' and you are not getting a 'Zombie Infection' but rather what for most is a typical Flu. Which sucks but you had the flu before, it sucked, you laid in bed and watched TV then got through it then by the next Monday you went to work.
People, i swear, they think Corona just fucks people over and then great.. they are diseased and disabled for LIFE. Like it turns them into werewolves or I don't know what they think.
Has nobody ever had the flu before? What about a nasty cold? Nobody seems to know what those are like anymore?
Italy invited the 3rd world in and promoted 'Hug Chinese People' day (seriously). They also have universal healthcare and told people over 80 they were fucked and they wouldn't be seen.
Yeah. They did it to virtue signal how calling it the Wuhan Virus was racist, so they promoted everyone to hug a Chinese person.
What do you expect from a pussy liberal country that allowed themselves to become socialist with universal healthcare. If we ever were forced to do universal healthcare I'd hope the liberals who pushed it here caught it too. Everyone else has to suffer due to their low IQ and stupidity. It should be them who suffers for it.
Would it surprise you that smallish regional hospitals in Italy are overloaded? Especially given that this disease disproportionately hits the old, and Italy has the second-oldest population of any country in the world?
Italy also has 300K guest workers from China, many of whom went home for the holidays and returned. Italy also has a lot of Chinese tourism.
The destroying angel passes over those with blood on their door (Exodus), those inside Jerusalem's walls (Isaiah), those who mourn for the evil done in the nation with a mark on their hand from Gabriel (Ezekiel),
those who submit to the king of Babylon and the word of the prophet (Jeremiah), and for those who have a testimony of God's anointed one (Revelation).
The Bible and history (various plagues, ancient and modern, Bubonic, spanish flu, smallpox/chickenpox) show where those who do survive will be richer and bring out eventual renaissance. It happens in every age of history.
Dangerous panicky idiots deserve to die by Darwinism theory. God just wants to warn and save everybody who will get on an ark, paint blood on their door, or repent to Jesus (symbolically listen to what God says). Yet God will destroy the sinner for his own sake. Like all we lost to drug addiction. There is death when you flirt with danger.
The Law of Moses demands cleanliness and quarantine of sicknesses. Maybe we need to spiritually quarantine ourselves against the over sexualized and violent media and music.
Maybe against leftists. I am so glad I am not getting spiritually infected at reddit.
I love the_donald, but lately people seem to be self-contradicting. Simultaneously saying widespread testing is pointless, and also acting as if we know the results of widespread testing.
You can say testing is pointless and we are doing enough, but that requires accepting that not knowing how widespread it is is acceptable. That's a legitimate opinion.
You can also say we need to know the spread of the virus, but in that case you have to agree US hasn't done enough testing to have that. Also a legitimate opinion.
Neither opinion is wrong. However your post, acting as if we DO know the spread, is wrong.
By the way, my opinion? Closer to the first. Knowing the spread would be nice, but if that takes resources from more important things then no big deal. I trust the Trump administration to make the right call. Trump seems happy with the current rate of testing, so I accept that.
I'm not sure where to find the numbers but the experts usually have some sort of 'formula/guess' and so they can usually get a pretty good idea of how many people probably have it.
As far as I can ever recall they are usually about right though I think they overestimated some like MERS and maybe SARS too but the point is that they have some good idea.
Nobody is saying we DO KNOW like objectively as if we have GPS on Corona 'Hosts' bodies but yes there is 'know' as in they have very good reasons, tried and tested, to know something that is probably about correct in any meaningful ways.
Agreed. It should be posts marveling over the USA's astonishingly LOW rates which are so low its not worth much of a story. Other than how low they are.
A part of me wants to believe that people are overreacting. Another part of me thinks about stories from Italy that are saying their health care system is overloaded because of this virus, that they are having trouble treating people, and how the whole country is on lockdown, making me think it's way more serious than any other disease I've seen in my lifetime.
I just know one thing, either it is serious or it isn't - regardless of where you live. If it is serious, then we better take it serious globally otherwise more countries are going to look like Italy very quickly.
Edit: Oh and I know there are definitely leftist assholes who see this virus an opportunity to prevent Trump's re-election, who actively want the economy to crash so they can blame it on Trump. But that doesn't tell us anything about how serious this virus is, for that it's probably best to look at other countries...
Italy is in bad shape because they ignored the problem until it got out of control.
Trump is trying to avoid that fate.
Italy is in bad shape because their people are filthy and unfit
That's part of it. But, they are also seeing normally healthy people suddenly becoming critically ill.
Some of those may be a reprise of what happened with the "Spanish Flu" in 1918: most of the fatalities in the US were age 20-40. Researchers believe it may have been caused by what is now called a "cykotine storm": where a normal immune system overreacts and drowns the victim with their own fluids in their lungs.
Children hadn't fully developed their immune systems, and older people either had weakened immune systems or latent immunity from something similar that pre-dated the young adults.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mayor-florence-encouraged-italians-hug-chinese-pandemic-hit
Because of that, and socialized medicine.
Don't be like Italy.
Yes, that's another reason. Due to socialized medicine limiting investment in infrastructure, Italy has less critical care beds per 1M population than most Western countries.
As a result, they are having to decide who gets life-saving critical care, and who is left to die:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/14/elderly-left-isolated-abandoned-italy-death-rate-soars/
This is what the Trump administration (and state governments) are trying to prevent. We have more critical care beds, but on average about 2/3rd of them are already occupied by people with other serious illness or injury. And those other serious illnesses and injury will continue to happen, and will compete with this virus.
Yep -- Italy welcome the dirty into their country and rolled around with them like they were groomed for it --- same with Germany and other high import zones, those numbers are under reported and no capacity to deal with this
wtf is this satire?
I think it has more to do with not having enough qualified medical personnel to handle the really bad cases and they have a large elderly population. They are also a lot of people packed into a small country, relative to the size of the US.
Something I think a lot of people don't realize is that the really good doctors, the specialists that are great. They don't stay in countries with socialized medicine. They come to the US to work. The doctor that put in my PED was from Sweden. He's the Director of Interventional Radiology and a Professor at a prestigious uni in my state. He didn't stay in Sweden. He's a great doctor and he's here, saving lives in the US, not in Sweden.
Staff shortages are a big part, but certain equipment is in short supply.
Italy has reported that 10% of their hospital admissions that tested positive for COVID-19 have required mechanical ventilators, and they don't have enough.
The US reportedly has about 160,000. The UK is so worried they won't have enough, they are asking manufacturers to retool production lines to produce them.
Did they ignore it or did they just not do enough? Is the USA doing enough? I honestly don't know.
I think it was a combination of both. Here's an interesting video from Italians -- a message to themselves, from 10 days in the "future":
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMY0-4p9P-M
Yes but Italy is the most extreme worst case scenario (outside of Wuhan) so it wouldn't be helpful to use that as the expectation.
The other thing is, for no good reason, way way too many people mistakenly believe Italy somehow started ahead of everyone else. They did not. The USA was 'seeded' the same time as Italy as were many others.
The USA is 'where Italy is' today. Italy isn't a glimpse into the future. It's running concurrently with most others and the USA.
One might say Japan and South Korea are ahead of others by maybe a week or two.
And it's not that serious unless you're old, frail, have a disease. It's very mild on children and the average adult (no preexisting lung illness) will just have a routine flu. Which does suck.
I'm a 'Suspected Case' here in Mainland China for what it's worth. They think I got it from a 5 year old little girl who did not actually get that sick herself but waiting to hear back from her father who had indeed been in Wuhan city a day before I was hanging around with him.
mind you, we don't know for sure
Honestly that doesn't make it much better. Sure, if you're young and healthy it's less scary. But what about the people who are not? They shouldn't die either.
You might not be at risk yourself, what about your parents for example? Maybe you only get mild symptoms yourself but your parents die or something like that...
Right that will be horrifying if all our parents die in disease and suffering however this is speaking to people who are young, healthy, no other serious diseases:
You aren't getting 'AIDS' and you are not getting a 'Zombie Infection' but rather what for most is a typical Flu. Which sucks but you had the flu before, it sucked, you laid in bed and watched TV then got through it then by the next Monday you went to work.
People, i swear, they think Corona just fucks people over and then great.. they are diseased and disabled for LIFE. Like it turns them into werewolves or I don't know what they think.
Has nobody ever had the flu before? What about a nasty cold? Nobody seems to know what those are like anymore?
Italy invited the 3rd world in and promoted 'Hug Chinese People' day (seriously). They also have universal healthcare and told people over 80 they were fucked and they wouldn't be seen.
Dafuq lol.
Yeah. They did it to virtue signal how calling it the Wuhan Virus was racist, so they promoted everyone to hug a Chinese person.
What do you expect from a pussy liberal country that allowed themselves to become socialist with universal healthcare. If we ever were forced to do universal healthcare I'd hope the liberals who pushed it here caught it too. Everyone else has to suffer due to their low IQ and stupidity. It should be them who suffers for it.
Would it surprise you that smallish regional hospitals in Italy are overloaded? Especially given that this disease disproportionately hits the old, and Italy has the second-oldest population of any country in the world?
Italy also has 300K guest workers from China, many of whom went home for the holidays and returned. Italy also has a lot of Chinese tourism.
We are not Italy.
The destroying angel passes over those with blood on their door (Exodus), those inside Jerusalem's walls (Isaiah), those who mourn for the evil done in the nation with a mark on their hand from Gabriel (Ezekiel), those who submit to the king of Babylon and the word of the prophet (Jeremiah), and for those who have a testimony of God's anointed one (Revelation).
The Bible and history (various plagues, ancient and modern, Bubonic, spanish flu, smallpox/chickenpox) show where those who do survive will be richer and bring out eventual renaissance. It happens in every age of history.
Dangerous panicky idiots deserve to die by Darwinism theory. God just wants to warn and save everybody who will get on an ark, paint blood on their door, or repent to Jesus (symbolically listen to what God says). Yet God will destroy the sinner for his own sake. Like all we lost to drug addiction. There is death when you flirt with danger.
The Law of Moses demands cleanliness and quarantine of sicknesses. Maybe we need to spiritually quarantine ourselves against the over sexualized and violent media and music.
Maybe against leftists. I am so glad I am not getting spiritually infected at reddit.
Spiritual warfare. We've been dealing with it for decades now. I think the reckoning is coming in the next decade or so.
Any time you point this out you get told "well for now!! but just you wait!!!"
It's almost like they can't wait for the numbers to go up to prove themselves correct.
Yes i have a bunch of people on twitter who keep saying exactly that and they seem to know something nobody else knows.
Consider this though: Outside of Wuhan area, lets say outside Hubei Province China: The next worst was 'Henan' which was a mere 22 deaths.
But then Italy blew up in a worst-case-scenario and now they keep tweeting at me "SEE! Italy! Now do you believe!"
They don't say "Look at Canada! See how.. oh okay, so just 1". 30 Canadians will die from the regular seasonal flu in the same time period.
Honestly people here in China weren't half as hysterical as my American friends and family on Twitter who are losing their minds.
We don't know the rates.
I love the_donald, but lately people seem to be self-contradicting. Simultaneously saying widespread testing is pointless, and also acting as if we know the results of widespread testing.
You can say testing is pointless and we are doing enough, but that requires accepting that not knowing how widespread it is is acceptable. That's a legitimate opinion.
You can also say we need to know the spread of the virus, but in that case you have to agree US hasn't done enough testing to have that. Also a legitimate opinion.
Neither opinion is wrong. However your post, acting as if we DO know the spread, is wrong.
By the way, my opinion? Closer to the first. Knowing the spread would be nice, but if that takes resources from more important things then no big deal. I trust the Trump administration to make the right call. Trump seems happy with the current rate of testing, so I accept that.
I'm not sure where to find the numbers but the experts usually have some sort of 'formula/guess' and so they can usually get a pretty good idea of how many people probably have it.
As far as I can ever recall they are usually about right though I think they overestimated some like MERS and maybe SARS too but the point is that they have some good idea.
Nobody is saying we DO KNOW like objectively as if we have GPS on Corona 'Hosts' bodies but yes there is 'know' as in they have very good reasons, tried and tested, to know something that is probably about correct in any meaningful ways.
There are other countries to base models off of than Italy. Italy and China have been shit shows in past pandemics too.
Something tells me you will feel dumb in a month not us
Is this where it ceases to be Obama’s economy?
Asking for a friend.
Totally shouldn’t blame Democratic governors shutting down states, bars restaurants, sporting events, or a complicit media inciting panic.
No blame to be had there.