All the initial reactions from media that I saw when I first heard about this was "fake / fraud doctor posts website with cure looking for money". Then I looked up the credentials of the trial doctors and the guy's a brilliant and respected virologist.
Forget that, all the good will is worth more than 1.4 trillion.
Bayer will make a killing on other products once this is over and once again Bayer comes in and saves the damn world. Its not the first time the company bailed out the world. It wont be the last either.
Back on plebbit people were spamming it was "a debunked conspiracy theory spread by known racist Laura Ingram" the day after the Italian study was published.
They thought Trump would minimize the virus while they simultaneously drove the public into a state of panic. Trump called their bluff and took control, creating unity
and winning over supporters in the process. The media gets played and left with egg on their face as they try to keep up their deluded spin machine.
Yes, Feinstein claims the trades were her husband's stocks and she has no input on his decision making. If you believe that, I have ocean front property in Arizona for sale.
I started telling people about this on Wednesday night and referenced news articles. When the nightly news came on, you would have thought it would be a story but nope, nada, crickets. It got those people questioning the motives of the Communist controlled DNC media.
The party of "science" saying that the virus is going to infect 20,000,000 people and cause a major outbreak in the US. Sounds like an oxymoron and a reason to not trust them. How do they not believe their own "amazingly smart and sophisticated" scientist won't quickly come out with a treatment to stop the spread? Propaganda and fear is why.
They need to have wu-flu be more damaging than H1N1. Otherwise, Trump can use it leading up to November. Obama (H1N1) 60m infected, Trump (Wu-flu) 1m infected, do the math, ugely better job!
I think the exact numbers are in debate, but downplaying the severity of this virus is counter-productive if you want to get Trump re-elected. Obama may have completely botched the H1N1 response, but he was incredibly lucky that it was as relatively mild as it was. We don't know the exact mortality rate of this disease, but the lower estimates place it 5x-10x deadlier than flu. It's also WAY more contagious. That means we have to get ready for a huge spike in hospitalizations that our system might not be ready for. We have THE BEST scientists in the world. I hope and pray that they will discover a cure soon--like the president I am hopeful that we will find something (https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/trump-fauci-differ-on-possible-game-changer-coronavirus-drug/) but I also put a lot of trust in Fauci. All this takes time, and we need to buy time by avoiding becoming the next Italy. It's not too late for us yet, but it's getting close.
He is a straight-shooter. Anecdotal doesn't mean bad--it just means it hasn't been systematically studied yet. This is going through clinical review now and we will (fingers crossed) have good evidence that it works in the near future.
Anecdotal seems to imply "folk remedy," not "has seen success in some studies." I don't get the feeling he wants to pursue the chloroquine possibility.
My take is that he desperately wants it to work, but doesn't want to spike false hope that prevents others from taking social distancing seriously. We'll know in a week or two if we should be using it widespread. This is promising and I pray it works.
It may not need to take time. This isn’t a new drug. This isn’ta new solution. Fauci is a gaffe machine and I worry I’ll prepared, poor situational awareness or really just wants this to continue.
I'm fairly familiar with the drug as it's been used for ages in third world countries against Malaria. That shit is potent as fuck. The way it works is by fucking up the way viruses reproduce. It's so good at it that it even prevents some human cells from reproducing. It's basically the equivalent of chemo against viruses.
Even if it doesn't work great, still try the darn thing. As Trump said in one of his speeches, its been in use for years so what's the worst that's going to happen? It doesn't work that great against Winnie the Flu? Fine, so now the people are no worse off then they were before. If it does work, then we can save lives that would otherwise be lost, we can get people out of the hospital faster and we can get back to normal faster.
Because they need a crisis. There need to be executions for this. Anyone obstructing something that could cure this for bullshit reasons needs to die in full view of the public. Since it's a state of emergency, maybe it could actually happen this time.
Absolutely. It is often said you don't see conservatives protesting because we are always at work. Well, I'm now laid off and I'm pissed off. They want revolt? They can have it. Just not by the group they wanted and aimed squarely at the corruption that led to this.
We propped up an autocracy in China for over a generation. Our business leaders ruined our nation by shifting our jobs there. Our political leaders traded at a loss with China and allowed unrestricted travel for decades. This was inevitable given our lax immigration and travel policies, but was absolutely preventable. The leaders who continued such policies deserve to face judgement for them.
Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer.>
I’ve always hated the government beaurocracy which has put up all the roadblocks and made it insanely expensive to get a drug approved, resulting in high drug prices.
The Trump haters I know have been screaming "South Korea tested 15,000 people a day!" Well, yesterday we tested 27,000 people. Now they're screaming, "we need to test 100,000 a day!!!!"
Saying it again and again, testing is not done for risk assessment. It's only done when people show associated symptoms OR you have been in the proximity of someone who has the virus. It's absolutely not EFFECTIVE if you do it willy nilly just because you're scared that you COULD have it. It has to be ordered/recommended by a healthcare provider, just like any other medical test.
Would you take an x-ray of your arm if there were no symptoms of fracture?
This is a very good start and I applaud our efforts, but we are still playing catch-up. We are 7 times larger than SK. Good work for us, and let's continue.
Amazing how quickly we've delved into a sort of socialist state, come to think of it. Government destroys the economy through idiotic governors and media sensationalism. Now the federal government is giving everybody money and the states have half the population on unemployment, aka that UBI the crazies wanted. Don't get me wrong, I'm laid off and could use it as much as the next guy, but I'm only laid off because the people in charge let it happen. It's as if some splinter group ruined the economy so that we could become dependent on Uncle Sam's teat and they could use their handpicked governors to usurp the Constitution and implement lockdowns and martial law.
Trump needs to take control of this shit now or there may not be a US government left in 6 months. It'll be china or some major conglomerate running shit while he becomes a figurehead until he's irrelevant enough to depose. The US is in bad shape right now.
I love capitalism and lean libertarian, but there are certain things that are not well handled by the free market because it is so short-sighted. National defence and public health are two examples in my opinion. They both represent market failures because of collective action problems. That's econ 101. Government management, like the DPA, are corrective measures that I am happy to see added to our toolkit.Just look at the stock market. I think we all agree that the fundamentals of our economy are strong but stock traders are antelopes and completely overreacting to a very serious but manageable problem.
However, this COULD be a huge economic blow (moreso than the temporary panice we are seeing now). But we only avoid that by taking this seriously. Overall, I've been frustrated by our slow response to this crisis and by the continued downplaying of the severity of this virus on this site. Let's support Trump and his recommendations. I wish we'd be more on the SK train and ramping up our production of quality test kits, aggressive track and trace systems, etc. SK doesn't have to do nearly as much social distancing because they have these robust systems in place. No need for shut-downs when you can quickly track down an infected person, isolate them, and quickly reach out to others that they may have infected. I think it's shameful that we've passed them in terms of spread and deaths, despite SK's proximity to China and massively denser population.
My sister and her fiance both had this virus but couldn't get tested because they weren't a vulnerable population and had "no-known contact". Later they found her coworker tested positive. Fortunately, they were responsible adults and stayed home, but not before asymptomaticly spreading it to several friends at a party. This shit is real. I want us to take it seriously.
How are defense and healthcare collective action problems? Defense inherently has free rider type problems but nothing the private sector can’t rationally deal with. Monopolies never give rise to the best possible outcome for the most people. Lack of competition in anything breeds complacency and corruption. Healthcare and defense are not magical exceptions.
If you run into a collective action problem, that is an indication that the solution you are devising is too centralized.
Private sector doesn't work well when you need to guarantee a minimum level of quality for everyone. Extreme libertarianism is just as mythical as the perfect communism has never been tried.
"Monopolies never give rise to the best possible outcome for the most people." completely agree--which is why completely unregulated markets are often pareto inefficient.
Did your sister and fiancé go to their doctor for testing? My healthcare provider in CO will not allow any patient to enter their office for any service whatsoever WITHOUT being tested, so not to endanger their staff. (!) Even people without symptoms.
Getting tested/not tested is handled by the person's doc, who signs off approval to get tested.
They live in Westchester County, NY. When my sister first got sick, she called the COVID hotline to see if she could get an appointment. But she was told they were out of tests (this was about two weeks ago) and to call back in a day or two. She got worse (still not terrible--just like a severe flu) and her fiance got sick then so they called back and they said they would call her back the next day with the test location. They were keeping it secret to avoid people flooding in. They never called back so two days later they called again and they asked if she still had a fever--they were both pretty much over their illness by then and so they told them not to bother getting tested. Then two of their friends both got sick (and were able to get tested) and were positive.
That's why the numbers are not trustworthy so far. On one hand, it's good. It means that the mortality rate is lower than it appears to be. On the other hand, it means that this virus is much more widespread than we realize right now.
Good luck to you. I suspect that CO and other states will be setting up hotlines soon. From what we have seen in Italy, medical workers who get sick appear to be particularly bad cases...
"market failures" - this is a term that only makes sense in centrally managed economies. A free market has no "optimal" results, therefore it can neither succeed nor fail. A free market is simply the eternal process and result of sovereign actors (people, companies) trading with each other.
So, if for example you want defense, in a free market you buy it*. Or you don't, and you don't get it. There's no "omg, I didn't buy X but I wanted it, therefore the market failed".
'* either directly, or indirectly, via your other choices. For example, people can flee from insecure places and move their productivity to different places that want to use them.
I'm using the term "market failure" in the economics sense--when individual/firm rational decisions result in sub-optimal group utility. In other words, when people make "good" decisions at the individual level, but it results in poorer outcomes for everyone. Situations like monopolies or the tragedy of the commons are classic examples. Monopolistic behavior stifles functioning markets, hence market failures. I down think anyone wants to go back to the days of Standard Oil, do we?
Well, first of all there's not a single "economics sense". We have Classical economics, Marxist economics, Keynsian economics, Monetarist economics, Austrian economics and the list goes on and on and on. It's not like physics where you a A physics science.
So, when you examine free markets from the perspective of a central planner, yes - markets won't end up on the spot the central planner considers optimal. That's a given, otherwise what would the "need" for the planner be? :)
Yet from the free market perspective, markets don't "end up" anywhere because there is no central goal to be achieved, therefore there exists no concept of success or failure.
Clarify: neo-classical economics sense which is what I think most people taking econ 101 are familiar with. But the principles apply equally in Austrian and Keynseian as well. Market failures (i.e. markets operating outside of pareto optimals) don't describe a deviation from a central plan, they describe a deviation from a pareto optimal.
The principles don't apply universally, that's why I commented - to clarify this really critical distinction. Because a lot of times we tend to use things assuming universality, while in reality we have instead invoked implicitly a specific framework, without perhaps realizing it.
Let's take for example "utility", which is at the core of pretty much every complex notion. Utility, aside of its common use, is a technical term in neo-Classical economics and is used in "utility functions" - for example U=a * ln(quantity of avocado) - b * ln(quantity of soy milk). In neo-Classical thought, the individual selects the quantities so as to maximize the value of U.
This kind of thing does not exist in the Austrian thought (which I will use as a counter-point because I understand it better than, for example, the Marxist school). Instead, in that school, you have "value scales". In the value scale, the individual would have something like { 1st avocado, 2nd avocado,1st bottle of soy milk, 3rd avocado, 2nd bottle of soy milk, ...).
The difference here seems minute but is one of essence and huge consequences in the divergence of these theories. Why is that? Because in the "value scales" case, they are purely ordinal for each individual and so there is no way to measuring the distances between the items in those rankings. Moreover, the very concept of such "distance" doesn't exist.
And so, to wrap up this example, utilities for the Austrians are ranks while for the neo-Classicals are quantities.
It works similarly for Pareto-optimality and a long list of other notions. Depending on the school of thought you're using, principles and approaches are greatly divergent. Therefore the question is - which school of thought should one pick to reason with? But that's another big topic of discussion, so I'll stop here :)
All fair points. I suppose I am rather stuck in my neo-classical ways and fairly ignorant of the Austrian school, among others. I would argue that the Keynsian school largely adheres to the same principles, if not the interpretation of the government's role. In any case, this way of thinking (I work in policy evaluation, which is largely off-shoot of micro economics) is so entrenched in the literature that I wrongly assumed that they apply pretty universally. You've demonstrated that is not the case.
I still fail to understand how unchecked monopolies represent optimally performing markets? But maybe this is not the forum for that discussion :0)
Give it a week with no new infections, and we're in the clear. Just have to keep the borders shut tight until other countries can get their shit sorted.
No need for a massive RCT here--200 cases are more than enough to show that it works. If it does (and I am praying it will) we can crank it out. This is an old drug and easy to produce. I really, really hope this drug is all that it seems like it could be. I'm trying to not get my hopes up too much to avoid disappointment though...
Those German pharma and chemical companies were amazing. BASF was the company that acquired and scaled up the Haber-Bosch nitrogen fixation process, without which the agricultural (and population...) boom of the 20th century would not have been possible. P.S. I am not actually German :)
Prussians were trained by the "English". Complete wreckage for hundreds of years before someone else showed up to set things in order. (then brought the "german" king back to "england")
Industrial revolution would have gone on fine without Bismarck's perpetual shadow state.
What's the point in this comment? Zyklon B had a legitimate use: it was pesticide used to kill lice. The Nazis had everyone fooled about what was really going on in the camps and were claiming to use Zyklon B as a de-licing compound for their new prisoners.
Nobody knew that the "pests" they were killing were actually their own people. People always bring up about how IBM manufactured computers for the Nazi regime as well. Hindsight is 20/20. Would it be nice for large corporations to have morals and do intensive investigations into what uses their technology are being put towards? Absolutely. But its unreasonable and that's not how capitalism works.
BAYER knowingly sent HIV tainted drugs to poor at risk hemophiliacs around the world in order to cull the population and turn a profit. Bill Clinton was involved, there’s a book about it detailing the Arkansas blood trade.
Bayer is German. It’s headquarters was right across from the Auschwitz concentration camp and they profited from human experimentation during and after the holocaust.
You are right about the hemophilia drugs. Bayer, had another drug Traysolol for heart surgery that was causing strokes and renal failure. When it was discovered, they personally attacked the researcher and fought tooth and nail until the drug was finally abandoned by the medical community. They still sell it in the 3rd world knowing that it hurts patients.
I hope this works but nightmares are a side effect. Imagine every American having a nightmare all at the same time...it might feel like living under Obama again.
Dude all drugs have side effects. Go look at even a common drug like ibuprofen. In rare cases it can cause ulcers and more. Every drug has bad side effects listed because they are forced to monitor every symptom experienced during a trial period and list it. That's why something like 85% of drugs cause nausea, weight loss (or weight gain) and fatigue. Because these are things people experience everyday for one reason or another and regardless of that it has to go down as being considered a symptom.
That's true of almost any medication out there. Most medications are filtered by either the kidneys or the liver and it only makes sense that putting an extra strain on either system for an extended period of time will cause problems.
I hear rumor that tylenol is good for if you have coronavirus but I try to urge people to stay away from it otherwise. That stuff is nasty and taking too much of it for too long will demolish your liver. A lot of people don't realize that.
Ibuprofen also causes some mild suppression of some parts of the immune system. Don't take ibuprofen for any illness that is likely caused by an infectioius agent.
Maybe this will help people see that pharma companies aren't just pure evil like the left wants to think. Yeah there are assholes in the industry, just like every industry. But for the most part pharma companies are trying to recoup R&D and clinical trial costs.
For the party who claims to be the party of science I am surprised at how few people realize this. The reason Americans pay high drug prices is we are paying the bill for these drugs to come to market in the first place. It's not fair that European (for example) benefit and pay low costs but without a recoup we would not be seeing any new and novel drugs being created. We need to spread the costs better IMO but somebody has to pay the billions required or that industry will disappear.
And wanna bet that a lot of those costs are the results of regulations? People stop when they reach the first fact they can latch onto that validates how they feel reality works. Very few keep digging until they find the irreducible truth.
I know first hand that regulations make drug development more expensive. I've worked in clinical trial planning and clinical drug manufacturing. You'd be amazed some of the dumb regulations that exist
Eh, no, I think the solution is not One More Agency. Reduce regulations, reduce costs to get into the industry, unleash more opportunity for competition. All agencies just end up getting corrupted and manipulated.
And Trump played the media like a fiddle on this too.
The drug was already available for off-label use.
Trump calls it ‘approved,’ liberal hacks jump up and down because it’s not FDA approved for China Virus.
This brings even more attention to Bayer’s 3M tablet donation... while shill doctors on Facebook get shouted down by Nigerians in twitter who have used the drug to treat Malaria off and on for years.
Do you have a source on that? I couldn't find anything.
There's actually a decent reason for pharma companies to patent viruses. They are being used as drug delivery systems for gene therapies right now, and are pretty successful. I don't know what viruses they were trying to patent so I can't say for sure that this was their intent.
A man-made virus is just a robot made from genetic materials. Why not let them patent that? Patents to protect free enterprise and prevent places like China from stealing our ideas.
If they're using an existing virus (which as far as I know is the only way viral drug delivery systems have been developed so far), the patent is on the method of using the virus to deliver a specific drug or type of drug to a specific target. It's not a patent on the virus itself.
For a simpler example, many years ago, a research group patented the use of melatonin supplements as a sleep aid. They made the discovery, and determined the optimal dosage. But nobody can patent melatonin itself, because it's a hormone that has always existed, and has other functions.
No they are asking a question. If a company does in fact patent viruses should we trust them to hand out cures as well? If they do I think that is healthy skepticism.
Chloroquine has been around for fifty years and is in use in hundreds of thousands across the world. This isn't some new miracle drug that they are claiming kills coronavirus. It's a currently existed and thoroughly tested drug that happens to be effective against it.
Also Bayer doesn't own the patent on it so other companies will be jumping up and pumping out as much as they can. Finally if they were trying to manipulate a situation where a virus they created would result in massive sales for a drug they have, why would they donate their entire supply of the drug?
I'm not saying I buy into it but I tink the question is legitimate in making us think about these things. I don't trust drug companies either and Bayer especially.
There are certain people like you who don't trust anybody and in times like this it gets really annoying. It leads to the anti-vaxxer movement.
I am slow to trust big companies or governments and I certainly believe people are exploiting this crisis for their own gain, but after a certain point you have to trust somebody. Otherwise you are just claiming your own knowledge and opinions are sufficient to cover the complexity of this world and will never learn anything new.
I legitimately do love America even more than I did a week ago from seeing this response from the upper echelon of government, the private sector, and many neighbors...plus all you pedes.
Imagine: Trump gets re-elected and for the next 4 years the major US pharmaceutical companies focus on one major disease after another, eventually curing all forms of Cancer, Ebola, Coronaviruses, Influenzas and the myriad of other illnesses...
Boom.. Boom.. Boom..
Funny how the border is closed and nobody on here is jumping for joy. No discussion on how this epidemic might affect the illegals within the USA (they want treatment, they have to self-identify)... this is why California is in such a shit position. They'll never contain this within the state because the illegals won't show up to government run help. CV is like one of those perfect tragedies they're not going to let go to waste. This is the type of event that ushers in the NWO or the MAGA agenda. One or the other.
I am jumping for joy over the border closure. The only thing I’d like more is to redeploy our troops to Mexico to wipe out the Cartels. Mexico is one of the most resource rich nations on earth. If the corruption were wiped out she’d be a superpower.
Watching Trump bring these companies together and donate to help the American people win this war is nothing short of magical. Kinda brings a tear to your eye.
Laura Ingraham said she took chorloquine multiple times as a prophylactic before traveling to Africa, for malaria. But yes, as Dr. Fauci said, using it to treat another disease has to be monitored and documented for its effects in humans fighting COVID-19.
Cost at 5 cents a tablet, according to Laura Ingraham, means that 3,000,000 would amount to a mere $150,000. And it probably cost them less than 2 cents to produce. For shame!
THIS!!!!!!!!!! Most people don't realize that Bayer is a evil fucking company. They knowingly kept selling the shit just to offload and still make profit.
Bayer knowingly sold HIV-contaminated factor VIII to people with hemophilia in South America because they didn’t want to lose all the money that had invested in preparing it
i was a little skeptical about that twitter Dr who pushed for this but if Bayer and the White House team is on board then its fully legit. this is the game changer
If you're referring to the twitter guy who was claiming "100% cure rate", he is indeed absolutely full of crap. But that doesn't change the fact that (as described in the paper he cited), it has significant effectiveness in early stages of COVID-19 infection (asymptomatic or only upper respiratory symptoms) and it may very well have a strong preventive effect.
My old arthritic Aunts have been eating this shit like tic-tacs for years. It's an anti inflammatory. It keeps the body's immune system from attacking itself to death. Doesn't kill the virus.
There really is a stark correlation between regions very used to malaria and its prevention (use of chloroquine) and a lack of covid-19. Breitbart has an interesting article on the subject.
Just spoke to a client of mine, a Vietnam Veteran who said they would take this once a month, as a preventative measure. Not sure if he was talking about this exact medication but big if true.
3 million tablets isn't enough. If you figure a course is 10 tablets, we need in excess of 3 billion to cover everyone in this country alone. Of course we realistically won't need that many, but it's still just a drop in the bucket. Let's get production going strong!
Tbh I do not think they were expecting something like this and it is throwing a real monkey wrench into their plans.
All the initial reactions from media that I saw when I first heard about this was "fake / fraud doctor posts website with cure looking for money". Then I looked up the credentials of the trial doctors and the guy's a brilliant and respected virologist.
Did the same, Hofstra, john Hopkins, they are all super hero’s. Coronatrial.io
https://www.covidtrial.io/
At that rate, Bayer only has to sell 1.4 trillion tablets to double their revenue. That's under 200 per living human!
Forget that, all the good will is worth more than 1.4 trillion.
Bayer will make a killing on other products once this is over and once again Bayer comes in and saves the damn world. Its not the first time the company bailed out the world. It wont be the last either.
Definitely come a long way since Zyklon-B.
Good for them. Maybe the Bayer K.C. can get this going.
People were claiming it was debunked and posting a link to an article that said it doesn’t work with literally no other information
"debunked" has secretly changed meanings since reality has been inconvenient to the deep state.
Back on plebbit people were spamming it was "a debunked conspiracy theory spread by known racist Laura Ingram" the day after the Italian study was published.
Don't know why it's such as surprise, SK used it to reduce their COVID-19 deaths. We're following suit.
Monkey wrench is a racist dog whistle! - CNN
They thought Trump would minimize the virus while they simultaneously drove the public into a state of panic. Trump called their bluff and took control, creating unity and winning over supporters in the process. The media gets played and left with egg on their face as they try to keep up their deluded spin machine.
Imagine being such a pathetic malicious shill that you actively try to hide life saving advice because you want orange man to look bad.
We must drain the swamp, regardless of party.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/kelly-loeffler-and-richard-burr-must-show-receipts-or-resign
Did they mention Diane Feinstein? I bet she shows all receipts and they are fine.
Loeffler claims it's in a blind trust, as does Feinstein... Should be easily verifiable, but if not, bye-bye! Burr's excuses (CNBC???) are cucked.
Yes, Feinstein claims the trades were her husband's stocks and she has no input on his decision making. If you believe that, I have ocean front property in Arizona for sale.
Feinstein is a chinese intelligence asset.
I started telling people about this on Wednesday night and referenced news articles. When the nightly news came on, you would have thought it would be a story but nope, nada, crickets. It got those people questioning the motives of the Communist controlled DNC media.
Also https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/teva-to-donate-potential-covid-19-treatment-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-tablets-to-hospitals-nationwide-2020-03-19
Wow! That’s huge news! Hats off to Israel! Shalom!
The party of "science" saying that the virus is going to infect 20,000,000 people and cause a major outbreak in the US. Sounds like an oxymoron and a reason to not trust them. How do they not believe their own "amazingly smart and sophisticated" scientist won't quickly come out with a treatment to stop the spread? Propaganda and fear is why.
They need to have wu-flu be more damaging than H1N1. Otherwise, Trump can use it leading up to November. Obama (H1N1) 60m infected, Trump (Wu-flu) 1m infected, do the math, ugely better job!
I survived that but died from the tax cut. :(
I think the exact numbers are in debate, but downplaying the severity of this virus is counter-productive if you want to get Trump re-elected. Obama may have completely botched the H1N1 response, but he was incredibly lucky that it was as relatively mild as it was. We don't know the exact mortality rate of this disease, but the lower estimates place it 5x-10x deadlier than flu. It's also WAY more contagious. That means we have to get ready for a huge spike in hospitalizations that our system might not be ready for. We have THE BEST scientists in the world. I hope and pray that they will discover a cure soon--like the president I am hopeful that we will find something (https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/trump-fauci-differ-on-possible-game-changer-coronavirus-drug/) but I also put a lot of trust in Fauci. All this takes time, and we need to buy time by avoiding becoming the next Italy. It's not too late for us yet, but it's getting close.
Actually, I dislike Fauci. Isn't he the one who keeps saying the chloroquine evidence is anecdotal?
Then he should consider using a word/phrase that the vast majority of the public will understand correctly.
He is a straight-shooter. Anecdotal doesn't mean bad--it just means it hasn't been systematically studied yet. This is going through clinical review now and we will (fingers crossed) have good evidence that it works in the near future.
Anecdotal seems to imply "folk remedy," not "has seen success in some studies." I don't get the feeling he wants to pursue the chloroquine possibility.
My take is that he desperately wants it to work, but doesn't want to spike false hope that prevents others from taking social distancing seriously. We'll know in a week or two if we should be using it widespread. This is promising and I pray it works.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/toxicologist-reacts-after-trump-announces-fda-making-anti-malaria-drug-available-to-test-covid-19-treatment
It may not need to take time. This isn’t a new drug. This isn’ta new solution. Fauci is a gaffe machine and I worry I’ll prepared, poor situational awareness or really just wants this to continue.
I'm fairly familiar with the drug as it's been used for ages in third world countries against Malaria. That shit is potent as fuck. The way it works is by fucking up the way viruses reproduce. It's so good at it that it even prevents some human cells from reproducing. It's basically the equivalent of chemo against viruses.
Even if it isnt the main therapy, maybe it would be enough, in the short term, to get a lot of people to calm down.
Even if it doesn't work great, still try the darn thing. As Trump said in one of his speeches, its been in use for years so what's the worst that's going to happen? It doesn't work that great against Winnie the Flu? Fine, so now the people are no worse off then they were before. If it does work, then we can save lives that would otherwise be lost, we can get people out of the hospital faster and we can get back to normal faster.
This is why right to try and allowing off label prescriptions is crucial. But now liberals hate my body my choice
Seriously - the upside is huge, the downside is minimal, why the heck would we not?
Because they need a crisis. There need to be executions for this. Anyone obstructing something that could cure this for bullshit reasons needs to die in full view of the public. Since it's a state of emergency, maybe it could actually happen this time.
this has been my thought on it.
Lets say 100% effective is abull shit.
but 80% effective is accurate. that's an 80% strain we just pulled off the health care system (relatively speaking of course)
At the very least we should be looking in to
I have a Mom and a few Aunts that take this for arthritis. Time to raid their medicine cabinets...kidding about the raiding.
Absolutely. It is often said you don't see conservatives protesting because we are always at work. Well, I'm now laid off and I'm pissed off. They want revolt? They can have it. Just not by the group they wanted and aimed squarely at the corruption that led to this.
We propped up an autocracy in China for over a generation. Our business leaders ruined our nation by shifting our jobs there. Our political leaders traded at a loss with China and allowed unrestricted travel for decades. This was inevitable given our lax immigration and travel policies, but was absolutely preventable. The leaders who continued such policies deserve to face judgement for them.
In 1776, that was one of the most read books in the colonies...
dude this whole thing is already over
fucking flu lmao
i give it 4 weeks
ever wondered why brazil has nearly 0 infections?
because its fucking warm as shit
as soon as spring comes this will just fade away
We have a few cases in Sydney Australia and it's lovely warm weather here. Interestingly the hottest state here has the lowest number of infections
The test kits in South Korea that everyone is raving about and praising S. Korea's government...designed and manufactured by a private company.
Its funny how everyone hated big pharma up until about a week ago.
I’ve always hated the government beaurocracy which has put up all the roadblocks and made it insanely expensive to get a drug approved, resulting in high drug prices.
I hate those motherfuckers even more now....
The Trump haters I know have been screaming "South Korea tested 15,000 people a day!" Well, yesterday we tested 27,000 people. Now they're screaming, "we need to test 100,000 a day!!!!"
Saying it again and again, testing is not done for risk assessment. It's only done when people show associated symptoms OR you have been in the proximity of someone who has the virus. It's absolutely not EFFECTIVE if you do it willy nilly just because you're scared that you COULD have it. It has to be ordered/recommended by a healthcare provider, just like any other medical test. Would you take an x-ray of your arm if there were no symptoms of fracture?
This is a very good start and I applaud our efforts, but we are still playing catch-up. We are 7 times larger than SK. Good work for us, and let's continue.
Amazing how quickly we've delved into a sort of socialist state, come to think of it. Government destroys the economy through idiotic governors and media sensationalism. Now the federal government is giving everybody money and the states have half the population on unemployment, aka that UBI the crazies wanted. Don't get me wrong, I'm laid off and could use it as much as the next guy, but I'm only laid off because the people in charge let it happen. It's as if some splinter group ruined the economy so that we could become dependent on Uncle Sam's teat and they could use their handpicked governors to usurp the Constitution and implement lockdowns and martial law.
Trump needs to take control of this shit now or there may not be a US government left in 6 months. It'll be china or some major conglomerate running shit while he becomes a figurehead until he's irrelevant enough to depose. The US is in bad shape right now.
Yeah. This is becoming a real concern. We're getting into a lot of shit we may not be able to back out of.
I love capitalism and lean libertarian, but there are certain things that are not well handled by the free market because it is so short-sighted. National defence and public health are two examples in my opinion. They both represent market failures because of collective action problems. That's econ 101. Government management, like the DPA, are corrective measures that I am happy to see added to our toolkit.Just look at the stock market. I think we all agree that the fundamentals of our economy are strong but stock traders are antelopes and completely overreacting to a very serious but manageable problem.
However, this COULD be a huge economic blow (moreso than the temporary panice we are seeing now). But we only avoid that by taking this seriously. Overall, I've been frustrated by our slow response to this crisis and by the continued downplaying of the severity of this virus on this site. Let's support Trump and his recommendations. I wish we'd be more on the SK train and ramping up our production of quality test kits, aggressive track and trace systems, etc. SK doesn't have to do nearly as much social distancing because they have these robust systems in place. No need for shut-downs when you can quickly track down an infected person, isolate them, and quickly reach out to others that they may have infected. I think it's shameful that we've passed them in terms of spread and deaths, despite SK's proximity to China and massively denser population.
My sister and her fiance both had this virus but couldn't get tested because they weren't a vulnerable population and had "no-known contact". Later they found her coworker tested positive. Fortunately, they were responsible adults and stayed home, but not before asymptomaticly spreading it to several friends at a party. This shit is real. I want us to take it seriously.
How are defense and healthcare collective action problems? Defense inherently has free rider type problems but nothing the private sector can’t rationally deal with. Monopolies never give rise to the best possible outcome for the most people. Lack of competition in anything breeds complacency and corruption. Healthcare and defense are not magical exceptions.
If you run into a collective action problem, that is an indication that the solution you are devising is too centralized.
Private sector doesn't work well when you need to guarantee a minimum level of quality for everyone. Extreme libertarianism is just as mythical as the perfect communism has never been tried.
"Monopolies never give rise to the best possible outcome for the most people." completely agree--which is why completely unregulated markets are often pareto inefficient.
SK is a country of 51,47. million people. We have SIX times that to ensure public health systems work efficiently.
Did your sister and fiancé go to their doctor for testing? My healthcare provider in CO will not allow any patient to enter their office for any service whatsoever WITHOUT being tested, so not to endanger their staff. (!) Even people without symptoms.
Getting tested/not tested is handled by the person's doc, who signs off approval to get tested.
They live in Westchester County, NY. When my sister first got sick, she called the COVID hotline to see if she could get an appointment. But she was told they were out of tests (this was about two weeks ago) and to call back in a day or two. She got worse (still not terrible--just like a severe flu) and her fiance got sick then so they called back and they said they would call her back the next day with the test location. They were keeping it secret to avoid people flooding in. They never called back so two days later they called again and they asked if she still had a fever--they were both pretty much over their illness by then and so they told them not to bother getting tested. Then two of their friends both got sick (and were able to get tested) and were positive.
That's why the numbers are not trustworthy so far. On one hand, it's good. It means that the mortality rate is lower than it appears to be. On the other hand, it means that this virus is much more widespread than we realize right now.
Good luck to you. I suspect that CO and other states will be setting up hotlines soon. From what we have seen in Italy, medical workers who get sick appear to be particularly bad cases...
"market failures" - this is a term that only makes sense in centrally managed economies. A free market has no "optimal" results, therefore it can neither succeed nor fail. A free market is simply the eternal process and result of sovereign actors (people, companies) trading with each other.
So, if for example you want defense, in a free market you buy it*. Or you don't, and you don't get it. There's no "omg, I didn't buy X but I wanted it, therefore the market failed".
'* either directly, or indirectly, via your other choices. For example, people can flee from insecure places and move their productivity to different places that want to use them.
I'm using the term "market failure" in the economics sense--when individual/firm rational decisions result in sub-optimal group utility. In other words, when people make "good" decisions at the individual level, but it results in poorer outcomes for everyone. Situations like monopolies or the tragedy of the commons are classic examples. Monopolistic behavior stifles functioning markets, hence market failures. I down think anyone wants to go back to the days of Standard Oil, do we?
Well, first of all there's not a single "economics sense". We have Classical economics, Marxist economics, Keynsian economics, Monetarist economics, Austrian economics and the list goes on and on and on. It's not like physics where you a A physics science.
So, when you examine free markets from the perspective of a central planner, yes - markets won't end up on the spot the central planner considers optimal. That's a given, otherwise what would the "need" for the planner be? :)
Yet from the free market perspective, markets don't "end up" anywhere because there is no central goal to be achieved, therefore there exists no concept of success or failure.
Clarify: neo-classical economics sense which is what I think most people taking econ 101 are familiar with. But the principles apply equally in Austrian and Keynseian as well. Market failures (i.e. markets operating outside of pareto optimals) don't describe a deviation from a central plan, they describe a deviation from a pareto optimal.
The principles don't apply universally, that's why I commented - to clarify this really critical distinction. Because a lot of times we tend to use things assuming universality, while in reality we have instead invoked implicitly a specific framework, without perhaps realizing it.
Let's take for example "utility", which is at the core of pretty much every complex notion. Utility, aside of its common use, is a technical term in neo-Classical economics and is used in "utility functions" - for example U=a * ln(quantity of avocado) - b * ln(quantity of soy milk). In neo-Classical thought, the individual selects the quantities so as to maximize the value of U.
This kind of thing does not exist in the Austrian thought (which I will use as a counter-point because I understand it better than, for example, the Marxist school). Instead, in that school, you have "value scales". In the value scale, the individual would have something like { 1st avocado, 2nd avocado,1st bottle of soy milk, 3rd avocado, 2nd bottle of soy milk, ...).
The difference here seems minute but is one of essence and huge consequences in the divergence of these theories. Why is that? Because in the "value scales" case, they are purely ordinal for each individual and so there is no way to measuring the distances between the items in those rankings. Moreover, the very concept of such "distance" doesn't exist.
And so, to wrap up this example, utilities for the Austrians are ranks while for the neo-Classicals are quantities.
It works similarly for Pareto-optimality and a long list of other notions. Depending on the school of thought you're using, principles and approaches are greatly divergent. Therefore the question is - which school of thought should one pick to reason with? But that's another big topic of discussion, so I'll stop here :)
All fair points. I suppose I am rather stuck in my neo-classical ways and fairly ignorant of the Austrian school, among others. I would argue that the Keynsian school largely adheres to the same principles, if not the interpretation of the government's role. In any case, this way of thinking (I work in policy evaluation, which is largely off-shoot of micro economics) is so entrenched in the literature that I wrongly assumed that they apply pretty universally. You've demonstrated that is not the case.
I still fail to understand how unchecked monopolies represent optimally performing markets? But maybe this is not the forum for that discussion :0)
Looks like this works out to treatment for about 200K people.
That's enough to get a big sample size. If it works, ALL the factories can start cranking it out, and we'll have the Kung Flu sorted by June.
Let's see if the Deep State/China has a plan D.
If this thing works as well as it’s purported, we could wipe the virus out (in the US) before May.
Give it a week with no new infections, and we're in the clear. Just have to keep the borders shut tight until other countries can get their shit sorted.
No need for a massive RCT here--200 cases are more than enough to show that it works. If it does (and I am praying it will) we can crank it out. This is an old drug and easy to produce. I really, really hope this drug is all that it seems like it could be. I'm trying to not get my hopes up too much to avoid disappointment though...
Time for an embargo?
That’s enough to wipe it out right now... and have enough left over to save the EU just like in WWII
Let the Eurocucks squirm a little longer.
Isn't the drug already in pharmacies though and can be prescribed by your doctor? This is 3 million more than what's already here.
It is! Wasn't casting shade...just doing some light math.
I wonder if they keep the airport TVs on so as not to affect ratings.
Don’t forget Bayer a German company made zyklon b During WWII
they used to produce heroin too lol
They invented Heroin.
Those German pharma and chemical companies were amazing. BASF was the company that acquired and scaled up the Haber-Bosch nitrogen fixation process, without which the agricultural (and population...) boom of the 20th century would not have been possible. P.S. I am not actually German :)
Haha. Yes, Bayer is a German company, and Teva is an Israeli one. Nice work krauts and jews! Merkel is still a c**t.
A completely useless cunt during this crisis.
And every other time.
Love me some Braunschweiger Good liverwurst lmao
The BASF facility in Ludwigshafen is highly impressive, I had a seminar there during my studies, it's a whole city within a city.
That's quite a statement! Can't say I agree.
Prussians were trained by the "English". Complete wreckage for hundreds of years before someone else showed up to set things in order. (then brought the "german" king back to "england")
Industrial revolution would have gone on fine without Bismarck's perpetual shadow state.
Name doesn't check out
right
What's the point in this comment? Zyklon B had a legitimate use: it was pesticide used to kill lice. The Nazis had everyone fooled about what was really going on in the camps and were claiming to use Zyklon B as a de-licing compound for their new prisoners.
Nobody knew that the "pests" they were killing were actually their own people. People always bring up about how IBM manufactured computers for the Nazi regime as well. Hindsight is 20/20. Would it be nice for large corporations to have morals and do intensive investigations into what uses their technology are being put towards? Absolutely. But its unreasonable and that's not how capitalism works.
Whatever, they also sold heroin.
A German company?
They literally had Fritz Ter Meer, an actual Nazi who worked with IG Farben, running Bayer until THE 1960s!!!
BAYER merged with Monsanto.
BAYER knowingly sent HIV tainted drugs to poor at risk hemophiliacs around the world in order to cull the population and turn a profit. Bill Clinton was involved, there’s a book about it detailing the Arkansas blood trade.
I’d be careful
Companies are collections of people. Just because some people at a company did something evil doesn’t mean ever person at that company is evil
Bayer is German. It’s headquarters was right across from the Auschwitz concentration camp and they profited from human experimentation during and after the holocaust.
You are right about the hemophilia drugs. Bayer, had another drug Traysolol for heart surgery that was causing strokes and renal failure. When it was discovered, they personally attacked the researcher and fought tooth and nail until the drug was finally abandoned by the medical community. They still sell it in the 3rd world knowing that it hurts patients.
Didn't they watch CNN? They said no medication will work and we're all screwed
There's no medication for any flu and most of us survive every winter.
Tamiflu.
I hope this works but nightmares are a side effect. Imagine every American having a nightmare all at the same time...it might feel like living under Obama again.
Every drug has side effects, some might experience it and others may not.
I’d also rather experience a fake/perceived nightmare than live in a real one (our current situation).
Dude all drugs have side effects. Go look at even a common drug like ibuprofen. In rare cases it can cause ulcers and more. Every drug has bad side effects listed because they are forced to monitor every symptom experienced during a trial period and list it. That's why something like 85% of drugs cause nausea, weight loss (or weight gain) and fatigue. Because these are things people experience everyday for one reason or another and regardless of that it has to go down as being considered a symptom.
Very long term use of it also fucks up your kidneys.
That's true of almost any medication out there. Most medications are filtered by either the kidneys or the liver and it only makes sense that putting an extra strain on either system for an extended period of time will cause problems.
Yeah, thankfully I was warned by somoebody. I try to avoid Advil and Tylenol if I can deal with it.
I hear rumor that tylenol is good for if you have coronavirus but I try to urge people to stay away from it otherwise. That stuff is nasty and taking too much of it for too long will demolish your liver. A lot of people don't realize that.
Yeah I try not to take too much medicine in general since I learned more about side effects.
Ibuprofen also causes some mild suppression of some parts of the immune system. Don't take ibuprofen for any illness that is likely caused by an infectioius agent.
A side effect that hasn’t been known for 50 years? It was used to treat SARS, no side effects of that anyone has stated.
Maybe this will help people see that pharma companies aren't just pure evil like the left wants to think. Yeah there are assholes in the industry, just like every industry. But for the most part pharma companies are trying to recoup R&D and clinical trial costs.
For the party who claims to be the party of science I am surprised at how few people realize this. The reason Americans pay high drug prices is we are paying the bill for these drugs to come to market in the first place. It's not fair that European (for example) benefit and pay low costs but without a recoup we would not be seeing any new and novel drugs being created. We need to spread the costs better IMO but somebody has to pay the billions required or that industry will disappear.
And wanna bet that a lot of those costs are the results of regulations? People stop when they reach the first fact they can latch onto that validates how they feel reality works. Very few keep digging until they find the irreducible truth.
I know first hand that regulations make drug development more expensive. I've worked in clinical trial planning and clinical drug manufacturing. You'd be amazed some of the dumb regulations that exist
LOLOLOLOL!!!
Eh, no, I think the solution is not One More Agency. Reduce regulations, reduce costs to get into the industry, unleash more opportunity for competition. All agencies just end up getting corrupted and manipulated.
I disagree. If you apply more regulation and attach the government to drug development and manufacturing, you will lose most of the innovation
We have an option and Bayer know very well that hoarding and price gouging will cost them dearly.
This is the correct answer. Hydroxychloroquine is an old drug, cheap to manufacture, and loads of companies make it.
Now, if this works with little side effects, we will win a lot of time while waiting for a vaccine.
It’s a 50 year old drug. Side effects are very well known by now.
Almost 90 year old drug.
I just hope hospitals don’t price gouge like they usually do with medications. They give you Tylenol and charge $500 for it.
Doesn’t the current state of emergency prohibit price gouging?
Also TEVA https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/teva-to-donate-potential-covid-19-treatment-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-tablets-to-hospitals-nationwide-2020-03-19
And Trump played the media like a fiddle on this too.
The drug was already available for off-label use. Trump calls it ‘approved,’ liberal hacks jump up and down because it’s not FDA approved for China Virus.
This brings even more attention to Bayer’s 3M tablet donation... while shill doctors on Facebook get shouted down by Nigerians in twitter who have used the drug to treat Malaria off and on for years.
Mylan will have 50 million pills by April 15th. https://www.forbes.com/sites/marybethpfeiffer/2020/03/18/science-works-to-use-old-cheap-drugs-to-attack-coronavirus--it-might-just-work/
dorsn’t Bayer patents viruses? Isn’t this the arsonist handing out extinguishers?
Do you have a source on that? I couldn't find anything.
There's actually a decent reason for pharma companies to patent viruses. They are being used as drug delivery systems for gene therapies right now, and are pretty successful. I don't know what viruses they were trying to patent so I can't say for sure that this was their intent.
I do not think viruses should be patented, but yes, that do.have a good reason to want to patent them.
A man-made virus is just a robot made from genetic materials. Why not let them patent that? Patents to protect free enterprise and prevent places like China from stealing our ideas.
If they're using an existing virus (which as far as I know is the only way viral drug delivery systems have been developed so far), the patent is on the method of using the virus to deliver a specific drug or type of drug to a specific target. It's not a patent on the virus itself.
For a simpler example, many years ago, a research group patented the use of melatonin supplements as a sleep aid. They made the discovery, and determined the optimal dosage. But nobody can patent melatonin itself, because it's a hormone that has always existed, and has other functions.
Are you implying Bayer manufactured the WuFlu?
No they are asking a question. If a company does in fact patent viruses should we trust them to hand out cures as well? If they do I think that is healthy skepticism.
Chloroquine has been around for fifty years and is in use in hundreds of thousands across the world. This isn't some new miracle drug that they are claiming kills coronavirus. It's a currently existed and thoroughly tested drug that happens to be effective against it.
Also Bayer doesn't own the patent on it so other companies will be jumping up and pumping out as much as they can. Finally if they were trying to manipulate a situation where a virus they created would result in massive sales for a drug they have, why would they donate their entire supply of the drug?
I'm not saying I buy into it but I tink the question is legitimate in making us think about these things. I don't trust drug companies either and Bayer especially.
There are certain people like you who don't trust anybody and in times like this it gets really annoying. It leads to the anti-vaxxer movement.
I am slow to trust big companies or governments and I certainly believe people are exploiting this crisis for their own gain, but after a certain point you have to trust somebody. Otherwise you are just claiming your own knowledge and opinions are sufficient to cover the complexity of this world and will never learn anything new.
It's Bayer dude. You should be annoyed with them, not me. I don't need to trust them at some point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products
https://www.dw.com/en/bayer-ceo-faces-investors-amid-roundup-scandal/av-48495199
https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/you-should-know-that-among-others-bayer-bought-prisoners-in-wwii-in-order-to-experiment-on-them/
I trust the government much less.
Another example of people voluntarily acting in good faith during a crisis.
I like the attitude.
“The data is very limited, but dammit if there’s something that might work then we’re gonna give it a try”.
Almost like we should have a “right to try”. Maybe we should make some legislation regrading that basic concept.
Me, too. I truly appreciate the confirmation that many, many others feel as I do about our Republic.
I legitimately do love America even more than I did a week ago from seeing this response from the upper echelon of government, the private sector, and many neighbors...plus all you pedes.
Same, fren.
Imagine: Trump gets re-elected and for the next 4 years the major US pharmaceutical companies focus on one major disease after another, eventually curing all forms of Cancer, Ebola, Coronaviruses, Influenzas and the myriad of other illnesses...
Boom.. Boom.. Boom..
Funny how the border is closed and nobody on here is jumping for joy. No discussion on how this epidemic might affect the illegals within the USA (they want treatment, they have to self-identify)... this is why California is in such a shit position. They'll never contain this within the state because the illegals won't show up to government run help. CV is like one of those perfect tragedies they're not going to let go to waste. This is the type of event that ushers in the NWO or the MAGA agenda. One or the other.
I am jumping for joy over the border closure. The only thing I’d like more is to redeploy our troops to Mexico to wipe out the Cartels. Mexico is one of the most resource rich nations on earth. If the corruption were wiped out she’d be a superpower.
And a beautiful country, truly. It really is a tragedy how things are there at the moment.
Dear Lord, Bless these people.
Watching Trump bring these companies together and donate to help the American people win this war is nothing short of magical. Kinda brings a tear to your eye.
Evil corporations are saving us once again. Damn them all to hell.
ikr? Capitalism sucks, what with all the innovation and industrious effort on behalf of the entire world. Disgraceful!
I'm just posting here, to say "Thank you."
3 million? That's more than enough, do we even have 20,000 infected? Much less people that even need it
This thing is nearing its end folks.
Plus all the tablets in circulation which certainly exceeds that.
Laura Ingraham said she took chorloquine multiple times as a prophylactic before traveling to Africa, for malaria. But yes, as Dr. Fauci said, using it to treat another disease has to be monitored and documented for its effects in humans fighting COVID-19.
Cost at 5 cents a tablet, according to Laura Ingraham, means that 3,000,000 would amount to a mere $150,000. And it probably cost them less than 2 cents to produce. For shame!
This must be pissing off the CCP, their attack against the west stopped by a 50-year-old generic drug.
Capitalism at its best.
Woohoo, just bought Bayer stock yesterday lol...
Your 401k has probably had it since day one.
I wonder if Bayer will supply free AIDs-infected blood with each tablet.
THIS!!!!!!!!!! Most people don't realize that Bayer is a evil fucking company. They knowingly kept selling the shit just to offload and still make profit.
If the manufacturer is going this far, there is cause to believe it works. They aren’t going to put their ass on the line for a guess...
Thanks, Bayer. Very cool!
So one and done? They might need to donate a few million more.
I don’t have the data but I heard this should be enough to treat about 220k cases. We don’t even have 20k in the US right now.
Even then, it’s easy to ramp up production of this stuff.
Isn't this the drug that escorts zinc from outside the cell inside the cell and stops the virus from replicating?
Bayer is Monsanto.
One of THE most evil and criminal organizations on the planet DECADES running.
Greater actual threat to the planet than any dramatized, movie virus.
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Say what?
Isn't Bayer now a Chinese partner in Pharmaceutical production, and that Bayer use to be all American own corporation?
There goes all the tonic water because people will just assume any malaria drug will work
I like my tonic water with a little gin and a lime wedge.
I may be the only adult on the planet who's never tasted gin.
My ma used to drink gin & tonic back in the 70s, when 'cocktail parties' were a thing. Maybe I should try it.
I've always had the notion that gin tastes like kerosene, tho, which is weird because I've never tasted kerosene either...
Fuck Bayer! Bayer is asshoe! Do not trust Bayer.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/bayer-kept-selling-drug-that-helped-spread-hiv-20030523-gdgt3i.html
Fucking Bayer though. One good deed doesn't make them a good company. I'll take it though. The path to redemption begins with a single step.
Bayer knowingly sold HIV-contaminated factor VIII to people with hemophilia in South America because they didn’t want to lose all the money that had invested in preparing it
Those speaking this truth are my kind of Pedes. Bayer is asshoe!
i was a little skeptical about that twitter Dr who pushed for this but if Bayer and the White House team is on board then its fully legit. this is the game changer
If you're referring to the twitter guy who was claiming "100% cure rate", he is indeed absolutely full of crap. But that doesn't change the fact that (as described in the paper he cited), it has significant effectiveness in early stages of COVID-19 infection (asymptomatic or only upper respiratory symptoms) and it may very well have a strong preventive effect.
My old arthritic Aunts have been eating this shit like tic-tacs for years. It's an anti inflammatory. It keeps the body's immune system from attacking itself to death. Doesn't kill the virus.
Is Resochin hydroxychlorquine?
There really is a stark correlation between regions very used to malaria and its prevention (use of chloroquine) and a lack of covid-19. Breitbart has an interesting article on the subject.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/20/delingpole-chloroquine-malaria-coronavirus-stunning-correlation-claimed/
Just spoke to a client of mine, a Vietnam Veteran who said they would take this once a month, as a preventative measure. Not sure if he was talking about this exact medication but big if true.
Like Scott Adams says : this is a war between humans and a virus. If you bet on the side of the virus - historically - you are wrong.
This great effort from Bayer shows why.
(*nobody knows for sure if this medicine is proven to work right now)
Is there a timeline on when this’ll be tested on patients in the US?
3 million tablets isn't enough. If you figure a course is 10 tablets, we need in excess of 3 billion to cover everyone in this country alone. Of course we realistically won't need that many, but it's still just a drop in the bucket. Let's get production going strong!