Now our country has been turned upside down for nearly two weeks now. Our economy in shambles all for a virus that Germany is reporting a .3% death rate for... what a fucking joke. We need to push back hard. I'm especially sick of cucks like posobiec who bought the hype hook line and sinker and claiming that this virus was way more lethal than the flu but so far there is zero evidence of that.
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Kinda on the fence with this one, you sure can have cancer or pneumonia without knocking on deaths door. If you have a weakened immune system then Chinavirus comes along and turns the situation deadly, shouldn’t it be recorded that way ?
Maybe - but was it recorded that way last year? Coronavirus strains have been around for ever, this isn’t new. But last year if someone had cancer and died, they would never have been tested for coronavirus, this year they are. So, unsurprisingly, they find many more people dying who have coronavirus.
Coronavirus yes has been around forever, but COVID-19 is new type of coronavirus.
That's why the flu vaccine has an average efficacy rate of only 40-60%
The flu kills four people per hour on average. Italy just hit 30+ per hour. When are you people going to stop comparing this to the flu? It’s not a flu. It’s a viral pneumonia. An extremely potent and deadly viral pneumonia.
Im not a scientist, are you referring to the kung flu?
General Tso’s Sicken
It's not a new type, it's a new strain, which just means the immune system hasn't sent it yet, but it's the same virus
Yeah, sorry new strain. The new strain is COVID-19.
It's not even Coronavirus. It's actually SARS.
Yes, in the same way that each year’s “flu epidemic” is a different strain of flu but people still talk about “the flu”. Same thing.
It has electrolytes!
This could be why 20,000 Americans die from the flu each winter.
I agree with the frustration of the drama attached to a regularly-occurring bug event, but I'm on the fence, too. Unless we find that hospitals are lying to get some kind of Covid19 funding, there doesn't seem to be a downside to spotlighting the need for more honest cause-of-death recording. Hospitals avoid any chance of being sued and that's the biggest reason they currently leave off/don't give the name of secondary causes-of-death.
The long-term benefit if hospital reporting regs are changed to demand that a secondary infection with a name (like C19, Cdiff, Enterococcus, Staph) is listed as cause of death, then hospitals would have to up their cleaning game and thousands of already-sick people wouldn't get worse/die each year from poor hospital cleanliness and staff practices while being treated for a completely unrelated disease.
These Hospital Acquired Infections are conservatively estimated at 1 in 31 (687,000/yr) hospital admissions. Deaths are around 72,000/yr. Now those are fixable numbers that deserve some drama be attached.
But that's the problem is that theres no context from the numbers being given they just say oh it was wuhanflu and that's it.
"No context" is the reason for this panic altogether.
Context is being suggested because of a lack of data. But the results are alarming. This is why decisive action was and is being taken. I sincerely hope the nay sayers will say I told you so in three months, even if success may be caused by what they see as over-reaction.
I don't find the virus alarming. I find the panic and economic shutdown and stomping of liberty alarming.
and the fact that 59 million Americans got swine flu & 12K died (1000 just in october 2009 alone) and not one single business was shut down over it... makes this stink to high heaven!
We have to get ahead of this virus because if 59 million Americans get it, then about 1 million Americans will die from it (2% mortality rate, on average). Prevention is best until a vaccine is developed.
An Oxford University group's current best estimate of the mortality rate is 0.19% (source: https://www.cebm.net/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/). The mortality rates that have been bandied around are all bullshit, based on very limited testing. The same inflated claims were made about swine flu.
Because the underlying causes people die from aren’t exotic diseases, it’s stuff like high blood pressure and diabetes. It would be stupid to exclude those from the death toll.
The problem is that if a person dies of cancer while being pre-symptomatic of (or even recovering from) COVID, then Italy counts that as a COVID death...simply because they tested positive.
And nobody's arguing that COVID shouldn't be counted if it directly precipitates the death. Italy just has ridiculous epidemiology standards and was counting everything regardless of actual cause.
Why do you all keep assuming it’s cancer, when it’s actually high blood pressure and diabetes that are the two leading causes of mortal cases?
Really important distinction to make. /S It's completely irrelevant for the purposes of this conversation.
People LIVE with diabetes and High Blood pressure. They DIE because of the virus at alarming rates. Suffocating to death is the immediate cause of death.
Cancer is just an example.
Hypertension and diabetes are the high risk mortality co-factors, and if someone dies from COVID with those co-factors, they should definitely be counted. But what Italy was doing was counting everyone diagnosed with COVID as a COVID death regardless of the direct cause of death.
Another example, a 99 year person who dies from a blood clot and was COVID positive but asymptomatic would, according to Italy, be counted as a COVID death.
Now I don't know the specific numbers of how Italy's count is off, but this points out the known problem with their bookkeeping. At the very least, Italy's stats need to be reevaluated.
Ask Germany!
People "can" die of traffic accidents, but if they have beer bottles all over their car and BAC tests at .3 -- then should it REALLY be chalked up to "the speed limit was too high" "he could have hit a pothole" etc? Of course not.
We have preponderance of the evidence in court, and we need preponderance of the evidence in Italy. Instead they're cooking the books to justify their Draconian measures. It's bullshit and they need to be called out for it.
also, how do you know where the line is? It's not as if cancer patients know they have an exact amount of time left. 16 weeks, 3 day, 13 hours
The folks dying in nursing facilities, hospice, are ill from this virus, just like the folks tested in hospital, that die. There is also a mandate now to test all inpatient mortalities.
8-15% of all people dying have a corona virus in their system
What if 8-15% of all have a corona virus in their system tho