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No matter who is in office -- be it Trump, Obama, Hitler, Mao, Gandhi, you name it.... Every single person is confined to the restraints of reality. "What are these constraints?" you're asking yourself. These constraints are that every single government in the history of the world, past, present, and future balances economic policies with how many people will die.
To put it another way, even if someone like the Buddha himself were president, he would still have to decide how many people dying he would be fine with. His economic policies, no matter what they would be, would theoretically in effect cause some number of people to die if pushed to a certain limit. He can even say "That's bullshit, I'm just not going to implement any policies that exclude or harm anybody!" Except even that kind of policy would have its own economic ramifications, and no matter how he feels about it it would indeed end up killing some number people if pushed to a certain limit. You ask "Why is that?" That's because the whole "If it saves even one life than it's worth doing!" mantra espoused by the very same people that say "You are putting the economy above human lives!" literally means that we should always pay any cost to save any life. Put another way, "No economic damage is too great if it saves even one life." These people equate any kind of economic consideration and balancing at all as "putting the economy above human lives!" Not just in net effect, but even the consideration at all.
The only problem with paying any cost at all to save lives is...
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." -- Margaret Thatcher
By piling up obscene amounts of debt to help save lives -- "Any life!" -- in the short run, it will cause economic damage in the long run. If too many people are saved in the short run without any way to pay for it, that economic damage manifests itself in people losing their livings and people dying. Even if a government can indeed pay for it in the long run, they still should consider these constraints and should balance their policies accordingly, because their policies will be theoretically constrained regardless.
To anybody reading this, believe it or not, we place monetary value on people's lives, which whether you like it or not, helps us reach economic efficiency. You can say "Fuck that! We shouldn't do that!" except that would be the exact same as saying "No economic damage is too great if it saves even one life."
"Why the Government Puts a Dollar Value on Life" -- Wall Street Journal
He's playing along as much as he can while trying to limit the damage.
He knows people are in a MSM-induced mass hysteria, putting him in a tough spot. He can't just call the virus "fake news" and order everyone back to work. Trump's enemies (really America's enemies) are working overtime to kill us. That's all I know.
This. You can support Trump and still question the methods being taken. Shills on here think the two are mutually exclusive.
States, cities, townships, you name it with leftist governors, leaders, and admins have used this whole thing as an excuse to line their pockets and rule by fiat.
Good post.
Questions about rates for those telling us not to question the authorities and even yes our President:
How many suicides will result?
How many new alcoholics?
How many opiate overdoses?
How many severe mental health cases will result?
How many new homeless dependents?
Protect the older population and let us all get back to our lives. I have already heard of one suicide in my personal contacts for context.
Well said. There is even more to it: What about quality of life? Would you be willing to turn the quality of life for 1000 people from good to bad to save 1 life? Assume that bad quality of life comes with higher chances of death and an increase of suffering in general.
There is another factor: Short-term vs long-term effects. If you save 'n' lives at extraordinary costs here and now, it harms 'n' * 100 lives in the long-term. The economy is the long-term effect. It's not negligible at all.
It can get very complicated, but in essence it indeed boils down to:
Optics vs Reality
Short-term vs Long-term effects
Quality of life vs Mere survival
And another factor as well - who decides? Do others decide over your life, or do you do it yourself? Is the ability to vote a sufficient compromise? So add to that:
Collectivism/Authoritarianism vs Individualism/Libertarianism
In fact the optimal case is if we can decide each for our own and live with the consequences of our actions - and whatever arbitrariness life throws at us. Maybe I want to take the risk, maybe I want to get infected to be immunized so that I can return to work or my family sooner, maybe I want to minimize the risk, maybe I am willing to take the sacrifice to do essential work, maybe I want to seize an economic opportunity.
And when resources are limited, who or what decides who gets what provided? Whoever comes first, gets it? Aka the first to be infected - arguably the greatest idiots, get the best medical aid? What if some people prefer to buy a 80 inch TV instead of spending money for a vaccine or cure? What if people are just reckless and dumb - should they be bailed out at other people's costs?
See - free market & pricing is the simple answer to all of this. But with politicization and government interventionism everything gets very nasty. Suddenly everything becomes a "moral question", and then of course we corner ourselves into virtue signalling and dumb sloganeering. This is not lastly the consequence of dumbing down populations via government education.
I am not sure where you live, but here in the NY metro area shit is real. I have friends and neighbors who work in the hospitals and they are overwhelmed. Funeral homes have bodies stacked in makeshift cold rooms.
The news media is pretty much centralized here so their coverage is going to reflect on what they are seeing.
If the entire country was seeing the numbers we are seeing in this area, the country would be fucked.
That said I hope that we can get medical therapies and or a vaccine a soon as possible and be able to open up less hit parts of the country.
What if there is another reason that those bodies are stacked in cold rooms? Like maybe the fact that no one can have a funeral right now because they are banned.
I don’t doubt that NYC is getting the hardest hit, and I think it is a good thing that they are finally taking things so seriously there. But keep in mind that the media thrives off sensationalism. They make money off of scaring you. That funeral home thing is a classic example of them not telling you the full story in order to invoke fear.
You are correct that is a big reason why they are stacked. But a man who worked down the hall from me called out and died 5 days later, my entire office is working offsite, now. 2 local community leaders died the other day. A local restaurant worker unknowingly had it and brought it to his 2nd job at a nursing home, 7 residents were killed. 6 members of a local family died after throwing a party in early March. Have you ever heard an anecdotal story of 6 people attending a single party dying of the flu? Yes, the stories are being highlighted, and the direness is being amplified by those stories (just like gun deaths or whatever else the media decides to focus on). But this is not normal.
I dropped off 20 n95 masks (i stocked up in April) to a family friend who works at a Queens hospital, where a 48 year old nurse died a few days after showing symptoms. Literally every business in my town is shut down and pretty much every business in ever other town around me, and guess what? No one is questioning it. You know why? Because we can all see with our own eyes what is happening, and we all have people we know and trust who are on the front lines in hospitals who are saying they have never seen anything like this in their lives. I hope that wherever you live doesn't see it in these numbers, and if you don't no doubt Trump will be blamed for overreacting when in reality his actions probably spared a large portion of the country from seeing serious issues.
I've been getting the same kind of moronic responses in this sub just for simply relaying information I'm getting from my brother who's a doctor at a hospital in NYC. I was just trying to get some accurate, first hand knowledge across for no reason other than spreading facts from someone who's there, but at this point people would rather shout at and mock anyone saying something they dislike or disagree with so no point in bothering trying to keep people updated with factual information that could be helpful. T_D used to be a great place for conversation, where differing views could be civilly discussed, but now people would rather shout "shill," and "libtard," and it's incredibly offputting. I welcome skepticism, criticism, and differing opinions, as well as the discussions they can incite, but the hostility and left-like name-calling has gotten tiring
I'm not listening to the media, nor am I listening to people on social media, but I work in public health and am also repeatedly hearing the same information from doctors and those who work in the medical field, and I'm more inclined to believe a consensus-view from those working on the frontlines. The rest can plug their ears and believe what they want at this point
Well THIS guy lives in NYC and his hour long walking livestreams are telling a different story, anonymous internet person.
That makeshift morgue that the NY Post wrote about last week appears not to exist. Paramedics are just hanging around, not looking worried at all...no masks, no distancing...no sirens, no panic.
I am not sure what you think this video of a man walking through a completely empty Manhattan proves, other than the people are taking this seriously because normally there would have been thousands of pedestrians and cars in the video that are now absent.
That's what they get? I am not even sure what that means. You would prefer the populations of the top 5 population centers of the US to be evenly distributed throughout? The rural eastern end of long island has thousands of cases, are those poeple death deserving assholes, too?
Great point. I was amazed to see your comment because I made a similar one to a friend yesterday... "If we valued lives, why not make the speed limit 15mph on the highways? It would certainly save lives! But its not practical for business and people's personal tasks". Instead make sensible limits and trust people to make good choices. Some wont but most will. Lives will be lost, even innocent lives, but people can't stay indoors and people cant drive 15mph.
Your liberty doesn't include infecting other people just because you're stupid. Just like you can drive but if you drive drunk your license is taken away. You can smoke all you want and destroy your own lungs, but you can blow smoke on other people.
Bro I see the same thing. It's always breathless fucking hysteria. Guy seems to have a hard on for the government putting their boot on our throat so he can larp walking dead and virtue signal about how compassionate he is while watching Netflix.
If killing and eating all of our pets can save just one life then we should kill and eat them all...
You like that leftists? Because that’s an actual decision that people face when they let their economy collapse. Youre no longer choosing between staying and watching Netflix all day vs. potentially getting a cough. You’re choosing between killing your family dog or starving to death.
And a good chunk of them would take those odds if it meant they could delay taking personal responsibility for the mess they've made of their lives...and I wish I was kidding when is say that.
That is the one area I feel like he hasn't done a good job. Press keeps beating him with this. He needs to tie the economy and joblessness to the death toll it will cause. Saying "can't let this be worse than the virus" is correct, but most people don't understand that.
"barbieblonde" is a leftist shill, hit that deport button
No, he is being accurate. If you get legally prescribed weed, you go on a list and you'll fail the federal background check. Otherwise you're committing a felony and lying on a form.
Just to play devils advocate here, but if someone lied on the form and they've never been caught for the devils lettuce, how the fuck would anyone know they lied? It's completely unenforceable assuming the person doing the lying isn't a complete dumbass.
Many states are required to report lists of medical marijuana users to the federal government. It is one of those things like how if you sell drugs, they can ALSO prosecute you for tax evasion.
If you possess a firearm you must satisfy all the requirements on that federal purchase form, even if you have never filled one out in your life.
Ask any police officer. When they show up and smell your "legal or only a ticket", weed, they will be looking for firearms first.
Police officer friend of mine laid it out for a group of us once, we let these people do misdemeanors, watch them get comfortable... so we can catch them on ten year FELONIES.
It is why they let you litter and drink in public, smoke a little weed on your porch... you have put yourself on their radar. They are just waiting for you to get in deeper and deeper to the point you are in for years, no matter your lawyer.
They are professional scumbag catchers. Don't think they are stupid, for a second.
Been my number one concern from the beginning. The reaction is unprecedented...i would expect this if Ebola was airborne or something, but a fucking coronavirus?
I'm happy to see some people are finally talking about this on a national level like Tucker. That Fauci doctor was asked when we could get back to normal, and the guy basically said when we've reached ZERO cases. That will NEVER happen and we'll be in this vacuum forever listening to people like him who aren't factoring in the other impacts to our society. They're just focused on the virus and nothing else. That cannot continue and they have to get other viewpoints in on this decision, QUICK.
They are focused on their reputation and nothing else. Fauci is smart enough to understand that getting to zero cases isn’t going to happen in time, but he isn’t going to say that because it would just make him look bad.
Trump is leaning into the panic. It's his only winning move. If he does the actual smart thing of opening things back up, the media will skewer him for every single death and give him no credit for saving the economy. He loses independents and the election.
The only hand he has to play is to listen to these clown doctors and slowly turn the narrative as the actual numbers come in orders of magnitude lower than the projections. Kind of like Mueller. He couldn't fire Mueller without being impeached for obstruction. He needed to let the investigation run its course, no matter the damage.
So we'll play this game the next few weeks. And as the death tolls come in lower than anticipated, he'll start turning on fauci and co.
I'd like to see a parade of families and small business owners who lost their jobs and businesses be given network time right now. Every single day.
Someone thinks saving lives is more important than the economy and that they're mutually exclusive? Fine, then they won't mind that network time. They'll just brush it off and ignore it.
My family gathered last night for dinner, out of 8 of us , 3 had lost their jobs, 1 had taken a huge pay cut, 1 was home from college because it was cancelled. That’s 5 out of 8 who’s life’s are completely altered and who can’t even begin to start to find a way to recover until this quarantine is lifted.
And that 1200 isn’t even going to cover their new health insurance premiums they have to pay for being unemployed , better hope you don’t get the Covid now
This is why he's tied to the hip with NY and CA and why he keeps one upping their requests.
Oh, your hospitals are overflowing? Can I have proof? No? Fine. Here is a hospital ship for non Covid cases. Here are fed disaster centers for actual COVID overflow.
Then you sit and wait. If patients show up, ok we prepared based on the information the governors gave us.
If all that capacity goes unused, Trump goes scorched fucking Earth on these clowns.
Lol. You fucking idiot. They replace the projected with actuals each day and update the forecast with the new info. That's why it appears to be tracking exactly. Got a screenshot of the same forecast from two weeks ago?
Scroll down. Now the US forecast is under 100,000 deaths.
I haven’t clicked on much these days, but are you telling me that current projections now are 100,000 in the US? Like - this is mainstream (normie) info?
This is such a joke. I was told millions by all my TDS friends just days ago
You understand this is 100k with the extreme social distancing guidelines that are in place right? How bad do you think this would get if we treated this like it was just the flu
Looking at the projections that's about the earliest he can do it.. We will be strongly on the downside after the second month - and the deaths will be flatlining at 100k.
Yeah, but there are certain hits he can take and ones he can't take.
He can't be seen as being callous about human life and still win the election, no matter how rational the argument is. Most rational people (independents) will give him a pass on the economy due to the global nature of this virus. But even if he forced things to open up right now, no one would give him credit for the economic piece besides us.
So he needs people to see some of the economic Carnage. The unemployment numbers. The business closures. The suicides. All of that against decreasing death estimates from the virus.
He needs the mob (us) to start demanding that things reopen.
He can't force governors to stand down on their stay at home orders.
So here's how this would play out.
Trump would have to unilaterally shitcan the CDC guidance and tell everyone to get back to work. Governors would ignore him out of an abundance of caution. Media would skewer him as hating people, only trying to save his business etc.
Then the economic numbers would come out, and after maximum damage had been done to Trump, Cuomo and company would say it's ok to start going back to work. Same outcome, but Trump comes off as some sort of super villain and the governors come off as heroes who care about people.
There are some battles you cannot win. So you don't fight them. You push off the confrontation until the odds are in your favor.
That's what Trump is doing. And read above. I'm not saying that Trump is trading our prosperity solely for his political gain. I'm saying the reality is that he has no way to magically put people back to work anyway.
People have been told this virus is dangerous. They need to see with their own two eyes that the economic fallout of a shutdown is even more dangerous.
Blame the media and shithead democrats for not giving GEOTUS and the American people any outs.
I will raise you 1 million %. That’s the governments response. If we have treatments the government will compensate (within reason) for time off and pay for your treatment. If you’re at risk guidance is to limit time in crowds, protections for your job and some assistance for lost wages. The rest of the country gets back to it
I really hope they do this. I know lately Trump has seemed negative, touting insane death tolls to come, but I feel it's 4D chess. He knows the numbers aren't going that high & when they don't, (and hopefully the pills show promise) ppl will be satisfied that the danger is over & we can get back at life. I hope!!!
I’m getting attacked here because the death rates are .037%... the fucking states are posting their data, do the math and make sure you add in the fact the 25-50% of the population is walking around asymptomatic.
Covid gestapo at work is now reporting anyone with seasonal allergies and spreading rumors about people who went home... for the common cold.
EDIT Not saying anyone should go to work if they're sick, but they shouldn't have to come back to work to hear that everything thought they were intubated or some stupid shit.
If all those old unhealthy farts die, how will the hospitals keep bilking medicare? LOL But seriously, this is a political response. It would be easy if we were not a democracy (see china), let them die, but guess who votes more than anyone else too? Old farts!
Hospitals don’t like Medicare because it’s a lower reimbursement than private insurance and they have shitloads of red tape. (Works for a hospital system)
Tbh I think that is what he is waiting for. Once we have a viable treatment that reduces the severity of the illness, he can open up the economy again. I have kinda pulled myself out of the loop the past few weeks on this thing so if there's anything out there for a solid treatment, then it won't be long. Have patience and use this time to reflect on life.
He needs to learn that people are not pawns for his computer models. We have lives to live and shutting down society for months or even years is neither reasonable nor possible.
So many people here are just fine with going along with this, and even get pissed if you talk bad about this Doc. Are they serious or trolls from Reddit?
Every post on Reddit is suddenly how dr Fauci is the greatest doctor who ever lived and how hard he works and how much he sacrifices so that people will live. This sudden PR is all I need to know that something Fucky is afoot
The media and hospital heads and doctors are trying to spin it that hospitals are still overrun and the ship has too much red tape in their screening to admit people quickly. Nothing is ever good enough for these idiots. Truly... NYC dwellers... “tough” according to Cuomo, when they couldn’t find their way out of a wet paper bag.
We must shut down the entire nation until there is a vaccine that is 100% effective!! Even though the flu vaccine is absolute garbage and we never shut the country down over the flu!
And even though Coronavirus mutates faster than flu and is basically impossible to create a vaccine for. Dems have a special injection ready for us if they ever gain power again, they simply have to ask China to release a more deadly version and people will bow down.
The problem is suffering. Suffering is awful and so is economic failure but by bailing EVERYONE out EVERY TIME creates people who continue to make highly risky economic decisions and they will never push back against the government. We were running high on every economic marker known before this and no one thought to save 3 months of expenses for a rainy day? I did and a few others did but here we are giving out free money to anyone with a hand out.
I always kept at least 6 months of expenses saved in a secure account, despite the economy booming and having a great job.
This was a readiness test and most of the USA failed
End of month, if it gets extended, suicide rates gunna go high and economy blowing up. I cant do another 4 weeks Mr. President and $1200 isnt gunna do shit for us
Completely unacceptable, but the level of Karen retardization makes me fear that's what we're in for. We've set a precedent, and one that ends in nothing but disaster. It's also exposed that there are very few freedom-loving people left, even in the US.
Yep. The local governments are dumb as shit if they think that Americans that lived free all their lives are going to be ok with being cooped up for more than 30 days
I dont need it, more or less talking about the people that do. $1200 aint gunna do shiiiiiiiit. BigIgloo seems inevitable and accelerated with this bullshit
Thats the thing thats fuckky about this entire thing and why I hated it from the begining. Truthfully unless you are id the midwest/middle of country, coastal states standard living salary is usually over 75k single / 150k couple, which means a very large % of our population aint getting shit from this
Because with that income you saved three months worth of expenses for a rainy day right? Especially when things were going well?
This is the problem is people don’t feel consequences. If you pay a $3000 mortgage and have two $400 car payments and make $150k you are doing it wrong...
This exactly. I was much more in favor of doing something like this: just give everyone $X amount now, and if you DO happen to make more than -- whatever it was, $75k, $99k, etc -- in 2020, you'd factor that into the taxes you owe. If you're fiscally okay and don't need the "$1200", just put it away and wait for tax day in 2021. Right now, I feel like there's just way too much work and time in having to go back into these tax records to see who's eligible and who isn't. Just quickly get the funds out to people, and collect on it later.
few weeks? Its been 5weeks and 4 days for me with now another 4 weeks. Sorry mate, but i dont enjoy feeling like a caged animal. Also, knowing that its literally not going to do anything and set precedence for anything further, ya myself like many americans just rather work, be around people, and risk it for the biscuit
Dude, you can’t. Everyone is acknowledging this. From right wing hawks to leftist kooks, totalitarian dictators to our own Donald Trump. For some reason, they’re all convinced: it can’t be allowed to take hold. Skepticism is a healthy conservative impulse, but at what point do you say “you know...maybe they’re right.”
What is the point of electing Trump then? He’s the litmus test. Government is a reality that will never go away. It’s why people like him matter. The value of electing a Donald Trump is that at least you can have someone there whom you can trust. If he says it’s awful...maybe it is.
Our founding fathers knew that some sort of government was a necessary evil. It was never meant to be as bloated as it is today. Trump was the only candidate who ran on, and has acted on, limiting government compared to all of the other candidates at the time.
And I think he’s still doing it. There really are extraordinary circumstances. Thomas Jefferson authorized the government to buy Louisiana even though he was pretty sure the government didn’t have that authority. It was too good a deal. The alien and sedition acts, the fact that there’s a standing army at all...hell West Virginia is an entire state of dubious legality. There are things that happen in extraordinary circumstances that require extraordinary measures. Yes these “extraordinary measures” are often smokescreens for overreach, but they’re also a part of reality. Again, that’s why leadership matters. We have Trump right now. Trust him because he is trustworthy. Or don’t. But come out and say it. Say “I think Trump is wrong.”
Just the one's who want to appear compassionate, people are working off emotion right now. Viruses are a reality we have to live with, you can't shut shit down every time this happens
They don’t shut it down every time this happens, which itself ought to tell you something.
I think the ones who are working off emotion the most are those who are afraid they won’t be able to pay their bills or that they’ll lose the company they fought so hard to build. And those emotions are causing them to push for a dangerous alternative to our already crappy reality. And I want to be clear: it is because I trust Donald Trump that I’m not right there with you freaking out. If anyone else were up there, I’d think it was all a sham or at least an overreaction. But I support Donald Trump and his leadership. And he treats this seriously.
I’m a history teacher. And I understand what you’re saying but we have had shutdowns before. In 1918, St. Louis shutdown all theaters, schools, and churches (among other things). This was when that was one of the 10 biggest cities in America. During World War 2, the government took control of practically everything. But then it ended. And this is going to end.
in the US is has not been about revolution since 1776... civil war was last attempt... it has been incremental since then... little by little... each crisis, recession, war... slightly more control.
have there been bright spots? sure. but overall, the influence of government in our lives in American has done nothing increase.
The trouble is that they will keep releasing viruses to gain more power. They have to be stopped and an example made, or we end up worse than China's slaves. Tv.infowars.com Thursday's episode.
contagious for 5 to 14 days before symptoms show up,
no vaccine,
it's putting 20 year olds on ventilators.
Global case mortality rate after 1 million cases is 5%
20% of closed cases are death, 80% recovered, and
Actual deaths are tracking exactly the models - which show mitigation (social distancing, closing schools, shutting down non-essential businesses) is the only tool we have to save millions of lives.
And Trump is being blasted here for saving millions of lives because some cucks are fear-porning over missing a couple of paychecks.
Even if every non-essential business opens the demand is not there. People aren't going to go back to bars like before, restaurants, travel, hotels, sporting events, movies, concerts, nail salons, gyms, etc. like before.
The psyop is a real pandemic and trying to convince people it's not serious. It's what the Dems and the media did when it broke out all the way until March when Trump declared a national emergency.
3x-6x mortality rate BTW.
Do you how many people a year die from cancer in the US alone? Can you tell me with out looking it up? I know how many since I have relatives with cancer. We should be spending trillions curing cancer. People like you are part of the problem.
Actual deaths are tracking exactly the models - which show mitigation (social distancing, closing schools, shutting down non-essential businesses) is the only tool we have to save millions of lives.
This part among others, specifically strikes me as bullshit. Before we even talk about how modelling exponential spread is bs and about the vitamins/antivirals/HCQ and dive into that whole rabbit hole, there's an important mitigation strategy that has not been widely employed until recently, namely, wearing masks. Yes, even a home-made mask is better than nothing.
The common arguments against this were and always have been total bullshit.
But people will touch the mask and their face. People touch their faces all the fucking time, mask or no mask.
Masks are harmful if you aren't trained properly. If a mask is more harmful if people aren't trained on how to use it properly, THEN PUT OUT material to SHOW people how to wear masks correctly.
Masks don't stop you from being infected. Even if this were true, and it isn't, wearing a mask would at least stop the person wearing it from spreading this contagion if they were unknowingly infected.
Masks can be a vector of transmission. And somehow your clothes or the pavement your spit lands on aren't?
As for people wearing masks causing a panic, you don't have to worry about panic when the MSM is doing all they can to create as much as possible while releasing as little useful intel as they can.
Whether this is incompetance or malice is up in the air. But, no, we haven't actually exhausted all the options before resorting to full on lockdown and an eventual dystopian nightmare. It is possible to have an economy and fight this at the same time, it's not mutually exclusive.
The thing is Trump is probably the biggest proponent of the economy. He does not want to shut it down but sees the consequences if he doesn't. It's a tightrope Trump is walking yet people here are blowing as hard as they can.
That being said, people here are young millennials who correctly think they have a very low mortality rate because of their age. Self-interest will always win out in the end. The vast majority of Trump supporters outside of this website are not millennials and will support the President.
As usual, NYC is fucking it up for everyone. Thousands of new cases a day, and thousands of snowbird faggots that flew the coop to bring hundreds of new cases to South Florida.
My mother in law was an RN for 30 years before she passed away. Used to say that dying of old age, in reality, was dying of pneumonia, but it would be silly to put pneumonia as the cause of everyone's death.
I agree with everything you said except the conversation part. The conversation will never be had. We will have cost this country trillions, bankrupted hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of families, put more people into the pit of debt, and displaced many workers who will take weeks or months to find new places in work.
And the media will get away with being the terrorist arm of the DNC.
The new model predicting 100k-200k deaths is taking what's happening in NY and NJ and applying it to the other states. It is adjusting for population size and other things, but it's not controlling for population density. On top of that, NY government knew YEARS ago that the state was not prepared for a pandemic, and did nothing. Many other states were far better prepared. The CDC is deliberately creating faulty predictions and using them as an excuse to destroy the economy.
Here is the 2008 NYC Biological Preparedness site where they show all the planning for a pandemic including ventilator counts, hospital beds, all the stuff they talk about daily. I haven't found the current site, I suspect it isn't public facing.
And NC 🙄 a couple from NY got cussed out near me for lying about where they came from. They were visiting a dentist office and he blasted both of them for putting him, his staff, and customers at risk.
I don't understand why CA has canceled school for the rest of the school year. School was initially canceled at the beginning of March for 3 weeks to "flatten the curve." Now the cancellation has been extended until the end of June. 3 months? For a group that generally doesn't get terribly sick from this?
I live in San Diego, and on April 1, our Congresswoman sent an email that said "849 cases among San Diego county residents. Fifteen county residents have died due to complications related to the coronavirus." In San Diego County, we have 3.3 million people. We're shutting down schools completely because 15 people have died? Meanwhile, we have had 20,500 cases of the flu and 105 flu deaths so far, but Coronavirus is the scarier disease? WTF?
So in my community, almost all the parents are still working. Some are essential workers who go out, such as nurses and doctors, some work from home. The kids need to be watched. Even the parents who work from home have to focus on work.
So grandmas and grandpas are doing the babysitting every day. Under normal circumstances, the kids see grandma and grandpa a couple of times a month. How are grandma and grandpa protected from the kids/grandkids germs?
I go there mostly for laughs... Like most sub's it's a liberal cesspool where you get downvoted into oblivion for having anything but a "progressive" thought. Hilarious when you consider the metro is solid red. Perfect example of reddit not being representative of shit
All the infection and death rates track exactly the same without mitigation. We already know this from actual data. You're looking at a snapshot at the very front end of an exponential curve.
Case mortality rate globally is 5%. Infection rate in Westchester NY was 1% of population - and that's tested positive. We don't know how many people are actually infected.
A 1% positive rate in SD would be 30,000 cases - New York numbers.
The infection rate is so high that doubling occurs in under a week without mitigation.
Luckily, California acted very quickly, and has great hospitals, especially in San Diego. We're buying time.
Otherwise there would be a much bigger problem - that still wouldn't be going away until 50% of the population is infected or we have a vaccine.
There's no other way to stop it. Vaccine or herd immunity.
What else would stop it?
If kids spread it without showing symptoms, families are going to start getting wiped out. And the families being wiped out are doctors, nurses, cops, grocery store workers, farmers, military, hotel workers, you name it.
The entire infrastructure is at risk - especially the military.
Did you hear the Admiral yesterday? He said before any ship goes out all the sailors who will be on a ship are quarantined for 14 days.
They know this is no joke. Every country in the world.
He has. Americans need to be force fed the Socialist dystopia they've been clamoring for. Being stuck in a prison 24/7 isn't living. Socialism sucks ass.
I have family with small businesses on the line. My woman is in the restaurant industry. Stop this fucking bullshit now. People will literally starve at this rate.
Shutting down the food service industry is beginning to ripple effect. Oil and gas has already began to lay off laborers. Think many cars are being sold? Cell phone plans being sold? Clothes being sold at old navy? Fuck no. Hell my local mall is closed. 100% shut down. Heads need to roll after this.
Healthcare is being affected as well, as crazy as that sounds. I work for one of the big labs and they are offering voluntary Furlough for employees because general business is down 40%. For now i'm considered essential, but who knows how long that will last
It’s an ongoing clinical trial, it will never end. But the special designation of Compassionate Use allows doctors to both use the drug in real-time and allows the FDA to collect the data as if all of the public was enrolled in a trial.
So the question is how much data do we have so far and can meaningful conclusions be drawn. I reckon the answer is no because it takes weeks to follow up these patients to see if the drug actually worked and if the drug had any unforeseen consequences. Time.
I'm going back to normal after April. Maybe before then. Fuck this shit. Wash your hands and be mindful, but live your damn life. Can't lock up forever.
extinction, or nothing of a life to go back to, seems pretty much a lose-lose though. Yeah we survive, but to what? No job to go to, no business to run, mountains of debt, despair and a ruined economy. So, great, we're alive and all but now have to endure a world of suffering we didn't ask for.
What stats do you have that I’m not seeing? I have a higher chance of getting hit by a car today than dying from COVID 19 and so does 99.99% of this country.
Dude, you have no idea how long I was on TD and before all of you migrated here. Dumb people blindly follow and give up their rights at the first sign of trouble.
Agree but I put it more towards late April you’ll start seeing riots and civil unrest. Everything collapses thereafter fairly quickly - everyone is at home and everyone is in the same boat.
I look back at all the situations Trump has got us through these past three years (NK, Iran, ISIS, Canada/Mexico) and now corona virus, and I think, what if Hillary had won the election? My God..we would've been SCREWED.
This wouldn’t have happened with Hillary. Because the media would ignore it just like they ignored h1n1 to protect Obama. And we would have been fine. Just like we would have been if we ignored this.
Biden vs Trump, Trump will always wins that battle. A Democrat wouldn't even care about the economy. But Trump has to 4d himself out of this trap soon or he will lose the independents.
Now cities are closing down summer activities, pools and parks and ordering only family members can congregate together at a park. We are allowing every aspect of our lives to be regulated. Destroying businesses, isolating extended families and more for something that has killed way less than the flu. Add to this we need it to spread to get the 65% herd immunity which won’t happen if no one can mingle.
We are allowing every aspect of our lives to be regulated. Destroying businesses, isolating extended families and more for something that has killed way less than the flu. Add to this we need it to spread to get the 65% herd immunity which won’t happen if no one can mingle.
You expressed my thoughts way better than I could have.
This whole "flatten the curve" crap is doing nothing but prolonging economic destuction, and preventing the development of herd immunity. Let it burn through the population like any other virus, let at-risk people stay at home, let the rest of us get back to work.
Good God, we somehow survived H1N1, SARS, the Hong Kong Flu, etc. without all of this bullshit without US governors turning into dictators overnight, without a seeming majority of the US population cheering the overnight destruction of civil rights, without "conservatives" sitting by and supporting the destruction of civil rights, and without gleefully congratulating ourselves as we destroyed the country's economy.
The Coronavirus has, in two months, already killed half as many people as H1N1 did in its entire year long run. The US is seeing daily infections of the Coronavirus go up by higher numbers than total world wide infections of SARS in its entire run.
Neither Trump nor the federal government have forced anyone to stay home. These are guidelines that are intended to keep the Chinese Virus from overwhelming the health care system. Each state governor sets the restrictions on their state. Accusing the people Trump has entrusted to provide him public health guidance of nefarious motives makes you sound like an ignorant jackass.
yeah but they're giving local leaders a license to take it and run imposing more harsh crackdowns. We're not necessarily mad at the federal level, just what's going on locally. Sorry, but if the first 15 day lockdown wasn't enough, what makes them think another 30 days or more is going to do it?
No but seriously this is gonna hurt but is necessary. I know there are a lot of skeptics here, but China really made a very potent bioweapon that is not going to kill a lot of people instantly. It'll make them sick, not make them immune and destabilize countries as their healthcare collapses.
I expect good news around Easter with a number of states being allowed to continue as normal and the Democrat tumors being isolated.
Why is he nuking small businesses and restaurants? Half of businesses will be closed permanently by then because of these recommendations. The leftist people in local governments are seizing this opportunity to lock people up for gathering (a constitutionally protected right) for trying to worship (also constitutionally protected) or just grab a meal. It is astonishing to watch this country implode under the guise of stopping a measly flu.
Just China thanks. And the media. And the overzealous governors and mayors using this opportunity to take away rights for the glory later to say they "Acted fearlessly to save lives"
What the fuck is Fauci's deal? He's trying to downplay hydroxychloroquine AGAIN, despite mounting evidence and the FDA's approval. And of course all the news media outlets are running with it. I wasn't so anti-Fauci as a lot of other people but this is it for me. Fauci needs to be replaced ASAP because his obsessive negativism about everything except a vaccine (that won't be ready for a year+) is wrecking the economy. I'm starting to wonder if this guy really just has the pharmaceutical industry's interests at heart and not America's.
Trump is being presented information that states 1-2 million Americans will die if nothing is done. Even with locking down the economy, he is told 100,000-200,000 could die. His actions are entirely consistent if he believes these numbers are true.
People here are rebelling against this idea because:
They don't believe the numbers. Doctors are misreporting deaths. The models are wrong. This whole thing is a hoax. Or variations thereof.
They believe the numbers but don't think it will cause them harm as they are under 30.
Appealing to the good nature of the 2nd group (you're protecting your grandparents) appear to be failing as self-interest is paramount (can't pay the bills, I want to have fun and live life). The stimulus package will appeal to the group that is worried about bills. I'm not sure what can be done to appeal the to group that wants to go on Spring Break/Mardi Gras.
I'm not sure how Trump can change the minds of the first group significantly. The Task Force press conferences help for the ones that want transparency. The ones that just want to believe will not have their minds changed no matter what. I remember the thread here complaining that there was only 59 deaths total in the US and why we are taking action for only 59 deaths.
Keeping the economy shut down into the fall will plunge us into a decade long depression with china emerging as the leading superpower. Most of the people who would have died from the virus will still die from the virus, plus we will have completely eradicated our entire way of life for basically no benefit.
Please cite your 2-3 million person estimate. Imperial college already took their forecast down to 200k. So don't use that one.
Just to be clear, 2-3 million deaths in the US would put this on par with the Spanish flu in terms of population adjusted fatalities.
Let's work through an example. The VAST majority of Spanish flu deaths occurred in September / October of 1918. And that was with many communties taking the same social distancing measures that we are taking today.
New Jersey one month into the Spanish flu (adjusted for today's population) would have had over 30,000 deaths, on our way to 60,000.
We currently have less than 700 in new jersey.
So you're entire premise (that this is as bad as the Spanish Flu) is complete and utter bullshit.
Oh, sorry - 2 million is still on par with the Spanish Flu (I'll let you do the math if you know how to divide and multiply).
And even if we go with your 1 million estimate, new jersey should have 15,000 deaths by now. We have less than 700.
And I'm not mad or panicking. I think the guy throwing out unfounded death forecasts in the millions is the one panicking, wouldn't you say?
And you still haven't addressed the issue of a decade long depression. How will that impact public health over the next ten years. Got any bullshit projections for that one?
Trump is probably the greatest proponent of the economy yet he has had to make this tough decision to shut it down. He is walking a tightrope yet the audience here are huffing and puffing as hard as they can. I actually want the economy to open up as soon as possible knowing there will be additional loss of life. The crux is to pick a point where there is very little chance of rebound covid spread and where lives damaged from the economy outweigh the lives lost by the disease.
With Trump shutting the border down back In January has stopped this from being total chaos. Millions would of die.As it is now....if we get away with only 100K than it will be a miracle.Lets put blame where it belongs. China,Media,Democrats and New York not Trump and his administration.
I agree completely. Hillary or any other Republican President would not have shut down travel from China for fear of being called a racist.
Ironically, there was economic argument against shutting down travel from China that some people were making. It's ironic because some people who cheered the travel ban back then are the same ones making that economic argument now.
If nothing is done, if at the beginning of this back in late January, everyone laughed it off and absolutely nothing was done, fine I could see maybe 100k-200k deaths. Not now. CASES? sure by the time this thing settles down, sure, but not deaths. We've taken the precaution measures, people are in their home jail and all. Where are all these extra deaths coming from if the chance of death from this thing is supposedly so minuscule that the lions share of people survive with little to no symptoms?
I can only hope that a large majority of the people in this thread that are sowing anger against Trump and the doctors are doing so in bad faith and are here to just to cause chaos.
People were screaming "concern troll" at pedes supporting Trump from the beginning. They intentionally co-opted to term "concern troll" to make it mean anybody concerned about the virus, not what Trump was doing.
Just like the leftists they are, they always project. And they can't meme. Notice there are no memes coming from them.
They also are notoriously bad at math. They use AOC logic. Because we have 59 deaths now, and 26 of them were in one nursing home in Washington, the virus is exaggerated. That was the first clue how serious it was. Mass deaths in one nursing home meant is spread through the air, and was deadly.
They will go away. Their bitching does nothing IRL. What they are trying to do is destroy .win and keep new Trump supporters from signing up.
This is never going to end, is it? This is going to just keep getting pushed back, and pushed back, and pushed back, and we ARE going to have to vote by mail in November.
Apparently. And we're not supposed to question whether the "cure" is worse than the disease. Which is surprising since Trump himself even questioned this, but now the panicked Karens on here are celebrating this "cure" that is destroying the country.
We need to be wary, Italy had civil violence and if it starts here it won't be easy to stop. Forget deepstate vs Trump, think every disparate group taking pot shots at each other and whole cities burning.
Pretty sure wife had it back in November. Dad (63) had it in February. I had it in January/February. I agree with you 100%, country should open tomorrow
Demand for oil dropped. It's what caused the oil price wars. Oil dropped 30% overnight. Price of oil is leading indicator for growth and profits. If there's no demand, it means businesses are cutting back.
Stock market isn't coming back until demand for goods and services goes up.
Won't happen until the virus is in the rear view mirror.
Fuck the stockfags. I'm so sick of everything negative causing them to melt down. Investors have no cajones. The slightest bit of bad news and SELL SELL SELL! CRASH THE MARKET!
Every single person who is for keeping this shutdown going theoretically should be pro-life right? Unfortunately I dont think that's the case. It's sad just how much sway the MSM has over your average person.
Yeah at this point I'm convinced that the resulting economic collapse will kill way more people than the fucking kungfu virus.
I just don't get how these lemmings don't see that the economy is keeping all 350 million of us alive and fed.
It's 100% partisan shills sloganeering.
No matter who is in office -- be it Trump, Obama, Hitler, Mao, Gandhi, you name it.... Every single person is confined to the restraints of reality. "What are these constraints?" you're asking yourself. These constraints are that every single government in the history of the world, past, present, and future balances economic policies with how many people will die.
To put it another way, even if someone like the Buddha himself were president, he would still have to decide how many people dying he would be fine with. His economic policies, no matter what they would be, would theoretically in effect cause some number of people to die if pushed to a certain limit. He can even say "That's bullshit, I'm just not going to implement any policies that exclude or harm anybody!" Except even that kind of policy would have its own economic ramifications, and no matter how he feels about it it would indeed end up killing some number people if pushed to a certain limit. You ask "Why is that?" That's because the whole "If it saves even one life than it's worth doing!" mantra espoused by the very same people that say "You are putting the economy above human lives!" literally means that we should always pay any cost to save any life. Put another way, "No economic damage is too great if it saves even one life." These people equate any kind of economic consideration and balancing at all as "putting the economy above human lives!" Not just in net effect, but even the consideration at all.
The only problem with paying any cost at all to save lives is...
By piling up obscene amounts of debt to help save lives -- "Any life!" -- in the short run, it will cause economic damage in the long run. If too many people are saved in the short run without any way to pay for it, that economic damage manifests itself in people losing their livings and people dying. Even if a government can indeed pay for it in the long run, they still should consider these constraints and should balance their policies accordingly, because their policies will be theoretically constrained regardless.
To anybody reading this, believe it or not, we place monetary value on people's lives, which whether you like it or not, helps us reach economic efficiency. You can say "Fuck that! We shouldn't do that!" except that would be the exact same as saying "No economic damage is too great if it saves even one life."
"Why the Government Puts a Dollar Value on Life" -- Wall Street Journal
http://archive.is/IUhFD
United States Value of Life -- Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#United_States
One more thing to add to the list called “things that they should be teaching in high school but don’t”
Not sure why you’re downvoted, I gave you one back
He's playing along as much as he can while trying to limit the damage.
He knows people are in a MSM-induced mass hysteria, putting him in a tough spot. He can't just call the virus "fake news" and order everyone back to work. Trump's enemies (really America's enemies) are working overtime to kill us. That's all I know.
This. You can support Trump and still question the methods being taken. Shills on here think the two are mutually exclusive.
States, cities, townships, you name it with leftist governors, leaders, and admins have used this whole thing as an excuse to line their pockets and rule by fiat.
My personal favorite way to describe it is, “the economy” is the abstract way of saying people making a living.
Money from the Fed produced everything around you.
Where do you think money comes from?
Glad I’m not then only who notices these bullshit shills.
Good post. Questions about rates for those telling us not to question the authorities and even yes our President: How many suicides will result? How many new alcoholics? How many opiate overdoses? How many severe mental health cases will result? How many new homeless dependents?
Protect the older population and let us all get back to our lives. I have already heard of one suicide in my personal contacts for context.
More people have died from suicide in a week in Knox county, TN than covid-19
Well said. There is even more to it: What about quality of life? Would you be willing to turn the quality of life for 1000 people from good to bad to save 1 life? Assume that bad quality of life comes with higher chances of death and an increase of suffering in general.
There is another factor: Short-term vs long-term effects. If you save 'n' lives at extraordinary costs here and now, it harms 'n' * 100 lives in the long-term. The economy is the long-term effect. It's not negligible at all.
It can get very complicated, but in essence it indeed boils down to:
And another factor as well - who decides? Do others decide over your life, or do you do it yourself? Is the ability to vote a sufficient compromise? So add to that:
In fact the optimal case is if we can decide each for our own and live with the consequences of our actions - and whatever arbitrariness life throws at us. Maybe I want to take the risk, maybe I want to get infected to be immunized so that I can return to work or my family sooner, maybe I want to minimize the risk, maybe I am willing to take the sacrifice to do essential work, maybe I want to seize an economic opportunity.
And when resources are limited, who or what decides who gets what provided? Whoever comes first, gets it? Aka the first to be infected - arguably the greatest idiots, get the best medical aid? What if some people prefer to buy a 80 inch TV instead of spending money for a vaccine or cure? What if people are just reckless and dumb - should they be bailed out at other people's costs?
See - free market & pricing is the simple answer to all of this. But with politicization and government interventionism everything gets very nasty. Suddenly everything becomes a "moral question", and then of course we corner ourselves into virtue signalling and dumb sloganeering. This is not lastly the consequence of dumbing down populations via government education.
The left hates humanity. They are relishing this.
Yep, won’t take long for a lot of people’s Netflix money to run out. That’s when it gets ugly
I am not sure where you live, but here in the NY metro area shit is real. I have friends and neighbors who work in the hospitals and they are overwhelmed. Funeral homes have bodies stacked in makeshift cold rooms.
The news media is pretty much centralized here so their coverage is going to reflect on what they are seeing.
If the entire country was seeing the numbers we are seeing in this area, the country would be fucked.
That said I hope that we can get medical therapies and or a vaccine a soon as possible and be able to open up less hit parts of the country.
What if there is another reason that those bodies are stacked in cold rooms? Like maybe the fact that no one can have a funeral right now because they are banned.
I don’t doubt that NYC is getting the hardest hit, and I think it is a good thing that they are finally taking things so seriously there. But keep in mind that the media thrives off sensationalism. They make money off of scaring you. That funeral home thing is a classic example of them not telling you the full story in order to invoke fear.
You are correct that is a big reason why they are stacked. But a man who worked down the hall from me called out and died 5 days later, my entire office is working offsite, now. 2 local community leaders died the other day. A local restaurant worker unknowingly had it and brought it to his 2nd job at a nursing home, 7 residents were killed. 6 members of a local family died after throwing a party in early March. Have you ever heard an anecdotal story of 6 people attending a single party dying of the flu? Yes, the stories are being highlighted, and the direness is being amplified by those stories (just like gun deaths or whatever else the media decides to focus on). But this is not normal.
I dropped off 20 n95 masks (i stocked up in April) to a family friend who works at a Queens hospital, where a 48 year old nurse died a few days after showing symptoms. Literally every business in my town is shut down and pretty much every business in ever other town around me, and guess what? No one is questioning it. You know why? Because we can all see with our own eyes what is happening, and we all have people we know and trust who are on the front lines in hospitals who are saying they have never seen anything like this in their lives. I hope that wherever you live doesn't see it in these numbers, and if you don't no doubt Trump will be blamed for overreacting when in reality his actions probably spared a large portion of the country from seeing serious issues.
i don't know what to tell you. Believe what you want.
I've been getting the same kind of moronic responses in this sub just for simply relaying information I'm getting from my brother who's a doctor at a hospital in NYC. I was just trying to get some accurate, first hand knowledge across for no reason other than spreading facts from someone who's there, but at this point people would rather shout at and mock anyone saying something they dislike or disagree with so no point in bothering trying to keep people updated with factual information that could be helpful. T_D used to be a great place for conversation, where differing views could be civilly discussed, but now people would rather shout "shill," and "libtard," and it's incredibly offputting. I welcome skepticism, criticism, and differing opinions, as well as the discussions they can incite, but the hostility and left-like name-calling has gotten tiring
I'm not listening to the media, nor am I listening to people on social media, but I work in public health and am also repeatedly hearing the same information from doctors and those who work in the medical field, and I'm more inclined to believe a consensus-view from those working on the frontlines. The rest can plug their ears and believe what they want at this point
I have been on T_D since day 1 with 100K+ karma - I agree, this place is not the same, I am not sure what is going on.
Well THIS guy lives in NYC and his hour long walking livestreams are telling a different story, anonymous internet person.
That makeshift morgue that the NY Post wrote about last week appears not to exist. Paramedics are just hanging around, not looking worried at all...no masks, no distancing...no sirens, no panic.
https://youtu.be/AzCN-3dioOA?t=2071
Granted that was a week ago, but I don't think things have changed that much since.
I am not sure what you think this video of a man walking through a completely empty Manhattan proves, other than the people are taking this seriously because normally there would have been thousands of pedestrians and cars in the video that are now absent.
To be blunt, that's what they get for living in a city. Cities are dehumanizing literal cesspools.
That's what they get? I am not even sure what that means. You would prefer the populations of the top 5 population centers of the US to be evenly distributed throughout? The rural eastern end of long island has thousands of cases, are those poeple death deserving assholes, too?
NYC dwellers complaining about conditions that reflect living in a densely crowded shithole? What did they expect? LOL.
I'm not sure i see anyone complaining, just relaying what is going on.
I fucking love this comment
The absolute truth right here. Unfortunately few people seem to comprehend this.
I guess that’s because it requires a little deeper thought than just looking at that covid ticker on CNN
Great point. I was amazed to see your comment because I made a similar one to a friend yesterday... "If we valued lives, why not make the speed limit 15mph on the highways? It would certainly save lives! But its not practical for business and people's personal tasks". Instead make sensible limits and trust people to make good choices. Some wont but most will. Lives will be lost, even innocent lives, but people can't stay indoors and people cant drive 15mph.
Your liberty doesn't include infecting other people just because you're stupid. Just like you can drive but if you drive drunk your license is taken away. You can smoke all you want and destroy your own lungs, but you can blow smoke on other people.
That person is a shill. They come on here and bleat that stupid rhetoric day in and out. I have reported them multiple times.
Bro I see the same thing. It's always breathless fucking hysteria. Guy seems to have a hard on for the government putting their boot on our throat so he can larp walking dead and virtue signal about how compassionate he is while watching Netflix.
GTFO
That is a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation. It's not all or none.
If you're drunk, you can kill an innocent person which contradicts this point you made
Look at Venezuela or any other communist country, how many died when their economies collapsed
Well, not sure on the that number, but they were killing and eating their pets, so I'm going to say "no thanks" to that kind of thing.
If killing and eating all of our pets can save just one life then we should kill and eat them all...
You like that leftists? Because that’s an actual decision that people face when they let their economy collapse. Youre no longer choosing between staying and watching Netflix all day vs. potentially getting a cough. You’re choosing between killing your family dog or starving to death.
And a good chunk of them would take those odds if it meant they could delay taking personal responsibility for the mess they've made of their lives...and I wish I was kidding when is say that.
Across the street from my house There’s a church that does a food pantry and Sunday community meal.
The last two Sundays that line has been out the door and down the block even with the social distancing
We don’t have 30 more days, just saying
That is the one area I feel like he hasn't done a good job. Press keeps beating him with this. He needs to tie the economy and joblessness to the death toll it will cause. Saying "can't let this be worse than the virus" is correct, but most people don't understand that.
smashes respirator aRe YoU ChOOsInG pRoDuCtS oVeR lIVes?
Except in Chicago, people are too afraid of dying, so they aren't going out and murdering each other.
Plus they get a $1200 check to blow on weed.
You just voided your right to bear arms doing that.
Stay away from drugs if you want to protect yourself and your family.
It is right there on the form. Federal felony to lie on any of those questions.
To be fair its a stupid law. Weed is no worse than alcohol.
No, he is being accurate. If you get legally prescribed weed, you go on a list and you'll fail the federal background check. Otherwise you're committing a felony and lying on a form.
Stupid yes. Unfortunately it was tied to firearms to get blacks and browns federal felonies... and back being slaves (in prison).
Until it is revoked/repealed/rescheduled... no one should risk their freedom and lives, over getting high.
Do you kiss your Voat Overlords with that mouth?
Just to play devils advocate here, but if someone lied on the form and they've never been caught for the devils lettuce, how the fuck would anyone know they lied? It's completely unenforceable assuming the person doing the lying isn't a complete dumbass.
Many states are required to report lists of medical marijuana users to the federal government. It is one of those things like how if you sell drugs, they can ALSO prosecute you for tax evasion.
If you possess a firearm you must satisfy all the requirements on that federal purchase form, even if you have never filled one out in your life.
Ask any police officer. When they show up and smell your "legal or only a ticket", weed, they will be looking for firearms first.
Police officer friend of mine laid it out for a group of us once, we let these people do misdemeanors, watch them get comfortable... so we can catch them on ten year FELONIES.
It is why they let you litter and drink in public, smoke a little weed on your porch... you have put yourself on their radar. They are just waiting for you to get in deeper and deeper to the point you are in for years, no matter your lawyer.
They are professional scumbag catchers. Don't think they are stupid, for a second.
Been my number one concern from the beginning. The reaction is unprecedented...i would expect this if Ebola was airborne or something, but a fucking coronavirus?
This. We've all been played and will live with the negative impacts for many years. All over a bad cold.
The legacy of communism is making its way to us.
I'm happy to see some people are finally talking about this on a national level like Tucker. That Fauci doctor was asked when we could get back to normal, and the guy basically said when we've reached ZERO cases. That will NEVER happen and we'll be in this vacuum forever listening to people like him who aren't factoring in the other impacts to our society. They're just focused on the virus and nothing else. That cannot continue and they have to get other viewpoints in on this decision, QUICK.
They are focused on their reputation and nothing else. Fauci is smart enough to understand that getting to zero cases isn’t going to happen in time, but he isn’t going to say that because it would just make him look bad.
Trump is leaning into the panic. It's his only winning move. If he does the actual smart thing of opening things back up, the media will skewer him for every single death and give him no credit for saving the economy. He loses independents and the election.
The only hand he has to play is to listen to these clown doctors and slowly turn the narrative as the actual numbers come in orders of magnitude lower than the projections. Kind of like Mueller. He couldn't fire Mueller without being impeached for obstruction. He needed to let the investigation run its course, no matter the damage.
So we'll play this game the next few weeks. And as the death tolls come in lower than anticipated, he'll start turning on fauci and co.
I'd like to see a parade of families and small business owners who lost their jobs and businesses be given network time right now. Every single day.
Someone thinks saving lives is more important than the economy and that they're mutually exclusive? Fine, then they won't mind that network time. They'll just brush it off and ignore it.
My family gathered last night for dinner, out of 8 of us , 3 had lost their jobs, 1 had taken a huge pay cut, 1 was home from college because it was cancelled. That’s 5 out of 8 who’s life’s are completely altered and who can’t even begin to start to find a way to recover until this quarantine is lifted.
And that 1200 isn’t even going to cover their new health insurance premiums they have to pay for being unemployed , better hope you don’t get the Covid now
And recovery won't be instantaneous the moment the quarantine is lifted, either.
This is why he's tied to the hip with NY and CA and why he keeps one upping their requests.
Oh, your hospitals are overflowing? Can I have proof? No? Fine. Here is a hospital ship for non Covid cases. Here are fed disaster centers for actual COVID overflow.
Then you sit and wait. If patients show up, ok we prepared based on the information the governors gave us.
If all that capacity goes unused, Trump goes scorched fucking Earth on these clowns.
the ships he sent to LA and NY have treated like 40 people... lol
I think there is more to this than you know.
Expect to see more stories about the "I had Wuhan Flu and didn't know it" after the antibody test is readily available.
Like my wife and her colleagues, who all believe the cold/flu they had in late December and early Jan. was actually the first wave.
Agree. Have a personal tale; will post at a later date.
The data is already nowhere near close to the forecasts. Cuomo has been playing fast and loose with the numbers.
That stops today with the FEMA locations going operational.
Trump is a motherfucking genius. He knows which fights to pick and how to play the long game.
The data is tracking the forecasts exactly for deaths.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
Lol. You fucking idiot. They replace the projected with actuals each day and update the forecast with the new info. That's why it appears to be tracking exactly. Got a screenshot of the same forecast from two weeks ago?
Scroll down. Now the US forecast is under 100,000 deaths.
Take the 1 million and shove it up your ass.
I haven’t clicked on much these days, but are you telling me that current projections now are 100,000 in the US? Like - this is mainstream (normie) info?
This is such a joke. I was told millions by all my TDS friends just days ago
Yep. Now the guidance is 100,000 - 200,000 dead in the US. Down form 2 million a few weeks ago (which was always a fucking joke).
Given that we had 80,000 people die from the flu a few years ago in a bad flu season, I could see 80K - 100K people actually die from this in the US.
But 2 million is a fucking joke
Honestly I’m thinking it’s going to be 20,000-30,000 but even if you add a 0 to that, it’s still a FUCKING JOKE.
I work in healthcare, people have died in my arms, RIP to everyone for real for real, but come the fuck on
You understand this is 100k with the extreme social distancing guidelines that are in place right? How bad do you think this would get if we treated this like it was just the flu
It's the best play, even still.
Looking at the projections that's about the earliest he can do it.. We will be strongly on the downside after the second month - and the deaths will be flatlining at 100k.
I wish more people understood this- it's clearly what's going on.
They don't need to. He'll drag everyone kicking and screaming to where they need to be himself.
When the fuck does the media not skewer him? Hell they're skewering him right now. He’d be skewered no matter what he does...
Yeah, but there are certain hits he can take and ones he can't take.
He can't be seen as being callous about human life and still win the election, no matter how rational the argument is. Most rational people (independents) will give him a pass on the economy due to the global nature of this virus. But even if he forced things to open up right now, no one would give him credit for the economic piece besides us.
So he needs people to see some of the economic Carnage. The unemployment numbers. The business closures. The suicides. All of that against decreasing death estimates from the virus.
He needs the mob (us) to start demanding that things reopen.
That's how he wins. That's the only way he wins.
Last I checked, Trump isn't a dictator.
He can't force governors to stand down on their stay at home orders.
So here's how this would play out.
Trump would have to unilaterally shitcan the CDC guidance and tell everyone to get back to work. Governors would ignore him out of an abundance of caution. Media would skewer him as hating people, only trying to save his business etc.
Then the economic numbers would come out, and after maximum damage had been done to Trump, Cuomo and company would say it's ok to start going back to work. Same outcome, but Trump comes off as some sort of super villain and the governors come off as heroes who care about people.
There are some battles you cannot win. So you don't fight them. You push off the confrontation until the odds are in your favor.
That's what Trump is doing. And read above. I'm not saying that Trump is trading our prosperity solely for his political gain. I'm saying the reality is that he has no way to magically put people back to work anyway.
People have been told this virus is dangerous. They need to see with their own two eyes that the economic fallout of a shutdown is even more dangerous.
Blame the media and shithead democrats for not giving GEOTUS and the American people any outs.
That and we're probably at the top of the bell curve right now.
We have a rock solid, readily available, and dirt cheap treatment. This is about to fizzle.
We will get out of quarantine early
Top is in about two weeks.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
The Salk vaccine took the polio bell curve down real fast. It's amazing what happens when a 100% effective and safe cure is available.
LOL
It's always two weeks away!
10 years to slow the spread!
45 days to... Ah fuck it, we're opening up and anyone who is sick gets Trump pills and a two week vacation.
This 1000% 👆
I will raise you 1 million %. That’s the governments response. If we have treatments the government will compensate (within reason) for time off and pay for your treatment. If you’re at risk guidance is to limit time in crowds, protections for your job and some assistance for lost wages. The rest of the country gets back to it
I really hope they do this. I know lately Trump has seemed negative, touting insane death tolls to come, but I feel it's 4D chess. He knows the numbers aren't going that high & when they don't, (and hopefully the pills show promise) ppl will be satisfied that the danger is over & we can get back at life. I hope!!!
I’m getting attacked here because the death rates are .037%... the fucking states are posting their data, do the math and make sure you add in the fact the 25-50% of the population is walking around asymptomatic.
They shut down an entire county here because of the INFECTION rate of 0.04%.
Covid gestapo at work is now reporting anyone with seasonal allergies and spreading rumors about people who went home... for the common cold.
EDIT Not saying anyone should go to work if they're sick, but they shouldn't have to come back to work to hear that everything thought they were intubated or some stupid shit.
If all those old unhealthy farts die, how will the hospitals keep bilking medicare? LOL But seriously, this is a political response. It would be easy if we were not a democracy (see china), let them die, but guess who votes more than anyone else too? Old farts!
Hospitals don’t like Medicare because it’s a lower reimbursement than private insurance and they have shitloads of red tape. (Works for a hospital system)
Maybe you should post on /politics.
You'll get a lot of support their for posting anti-Trump views.
This is a fucking retarded point that keeps getting made here over and over again.
Down vote all you want but being a GoogleIQ epidemiologist gets us nowhere.
Place got infiltrated from /politics shills. You can tell by their low energy.
No. It’s mainly people getting influenced by the typical divide and demoralize tactics.
We always knew:
We are in the middle of it and it’s time to buckle up and support the one who got is here.
Tbh I think that is what he is waiting for. Once we have a viable treatment that reduces the severity of the illness, he can open up the economy again. I have kinda pulled myself out of the loop the past few weeks on this thing so if there's anything out there for a solid treatment, then it won't be long. Have patience and use this time to reflect on life.
This is de way.
Fauci is seriously asking for this. He's a fucking lunatic.
Well, he sent love letters to Hillary, so you're not wrong.
Funny how his goals line up with the communist Chinese...
He needs to learn that people are not pawns for his computer models. We have lives to live and shutting down society for months or even years is neither reasonable nor possible.
So many people here are just fine with going along with this, and even get pissed if you talk bad about this Doc. Are they serious or trolls from Reddit?
Every post on Reddit is suddenly how dr Fauci is the greatest doctor who ever lived and how hard he works and how much he sacrifices so that people will live. This sudden PR is all I need to know that something Fucky is afoot
When the left praises someone, that's when you should look into their background.
I think the answer you're looking for is simply, "yes".
Yes.
Or if you say people need to get away from their vices and realize we're on a knife's edge and complicity is going to cement our enslavement
Now you're saying people who support Trump's tweet's are anti-Trump trolls from Reddit?
Seriously?
I didn’t believe that at first but I just looked it up. Yep, he fucking wants us to be locked down for a year and a half. Unbelievable.
If he really wants that, then he is either compromised or a complete and total idiot.
The media and hospital heads and doctors are trying to spin it that hospitals are still overrun and the ship has too much red tape in their screening to admit people quickly. Nothing is ever good enough for these idiots. Truly... NYC dwellers... “tough” according to Cuomo, when they couldn’t find their way out of a wet paper bag.
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Epidemiologists have one lane, they consider nothing else.
Sauce?
Because, um, fuck all that.
Yes here is the source I saw first.
Sauce
Thanks.
Got a link?
Bullshit fake news.
He didn't say that.
He said the vaccine may take a year and a half. He also said the vaccine is fast-tracked and could be ready by fall.
He never advocated for shutting down the economy for a year and a half.
Stop with the fear porn.
He said the social distancing policies should continue until new cases are essentially zero. Which won't be for a long time.
There are still new cases of the bubonic plague in the USA, that will be never. Fauci is a retard.
https://www.cdc.gov/plague/maps/index.html
We must shut down the entire nation until there is a vaccine that is 100% effective!! Even though the flu vaccine is absolute garbage and we never shut the country down over the flu!
And even though Coronavirus mutates faster than flu and is basically impossible to create a vaccine for. Dems have a special injection ready for us if they ever gain power again, they simply have to ask China to release a more deadly version and people will bow down.
Guarantee there is an email chain somewhere on some basement server discussing Exactly this.
Please Mr. Trump.
Listen to We the People.
Not the Babylonian Idol God worshippers.
And talk to Flynn!
what did it say?
Another 30 days. Then what?
Reopen our country! You cannot shut Free People out of life.
the time might be coming for a revolt
And it won't be the one we expected, with everybody showing their true stripes as authoritarian dictators, and even GEOTUS feeding the hype.
The problem is suffering. Suffering is awful and so is economic failure but by bailing EVERYONE out EVERY TIME creates people who continue to make highly risky economic decisions and they will never push back against the government. We were running high on every economic marker known before this and no one thought to save 3 months of expenses for a rainy day? I did and a few others did but here we are giving out free money to anyone with a hand out.
I always kept at least 6 months of expenses saved in a secure account, despite the economy booming and having a great job.
This was a readiness test and most of the USA failed
This
End of month, if it gets extended, suicide rates gunna go high and economy blowing up. I cant do another 4 weeks Mr. President and $1200 isnt gunna do shit for us
This is some retard level shit going on. Expect this every year from now on.
That's the plan. Tv.infowars.com Thursday's episode.
BANNED.VIDEO !!!
Why isn't my link working?
Yeah it doesn't work right, how do we tell the admins
Not sure, it's hyperlinked correctly. I "Deported" myself and selected other and detailed, we'll see.
That's exactly what my parents said... So is this what we're going to do in October when people get the sniffles?
Completely unacceptable, but the level of Karen retardization makes me fear that's what we're in for. We've set a precedent, and one that ends in nothing but disaster. It's also exposed that there are very few freedom-loving people left, even in the US.
No, I will not expect this every year. I have more faith in humanity
Especially while Trump is president, this is going to be a yearly thing now.
Yep. The local governments are dumb as shit if they think that Americans that lived free all their lives are going to be ok with being cooped up for more than 30 days
NYC, IL, CA gunna see looting and crimes worse than LA Riots and people gunna have to forcefully see reality of how trash our government has become
Yessir, people here in Dallas are slowly starting to say fuck this.
I dont need it, more or less talking about the people that do. $1200 aint gunna do shiiiiiiiit. BigIgloo seems inevitable and accelerated with this bullshit
Thats the thing thats fuckky about this entire thing and why I hated it from the begining. Truthfully unless you are id the midwest/middle of country, coastal states standard living salary is usually over 75k single / 150k couple, which means a very large % of our population aint getting shit from this
Because with that income you saved three months worth of expenses for a rainy day right? Especially when things were going well? This is the problem is people don’t feel consequences. If you pay a $3000 mortgage and have two $400 car payments and make $150k you are doing it wrong...
This exactly. I was much more in favor of doing something like this: just give everyone $X amount now, and if you DO happen to make more than -- whatever it was, $75k, $99k, etc -- in 2020, you'd factor that into the taxes you owe. If you're fiscally okay and don't need the "$1200", just put it away and wait for tax day in 2021. Right now, I feel like there's just way too much work and time in having to go back into these tax records to see who's eligible and who isn't. Just quickly get the funds out to people, and collect on it later.
Do you have a timeline for the $1200? I'm not getting a check personally, but I'm curious and it's fucking awesome if it's going to take 20 weeks.
What's the point of printing all the funny money then?
few weeks? Its been 5weeks and 4 days for me with now another 4 weeks. Sorry mate, but i dont enjoy feeling like a caged animal. Also, knowing that its literally not going to do anything and set precedence for anything further, ya myself like many americans just rather work, be around people, and risk it for the biscuit
Put America back to work!
Dude, you can’t. Everyone is acknowledging this. From right wing hawks to leftist kooks, totalitarian dictators to our own Donald Trump. For some reason, they’re all convinced: it can’t be allowed to take hold. Skepticism is a healthy conservative impulse, but at what point do you say “you know...maybe they’re right.”
What is the point of electing Trump then? He’s the litmus test. Government is a reality that will never go away. It’s why people like him matter. The value of electing a Donald Trump is that at least you can have someone there whom you can trust. If he says it’s awful...maybe it is.
Our founding fathers knew that some sort of government was a necessary evil. It was never meant to be as bloated as it is today. Trump was the only candidate who ran on, and has acted on, limiting government compared to all of the other candidates at the time.
And I think he’s still doing it. There really are extraordinary circumstances. Thomas Jefferson authorized the government to buy Louisiana even though he was pretty sure the government didn’t have that authority. It was too good a deal. The alien and sedition acts, the fact that there’s a standing army at all...hell West Virginia is an entire state of dubious legality. There are things that happen in extraordinary circumstances that require extraordinary measures. Yes these “extraordinary measures” are often smokescreens for overreach, but they’re also a part of reality. Again, that’s why leadership matters. We have Trump right now. Trust him because he is trustworthy. Or don’t. But come out and say it. Say “I think Trump is wrong.”
Just the one's who want to appear compassionate, people are working off emotion right now. Viruses are a reality we have to live with, you can't shut shit down every time this happens
They don’t shut it down every time this happens, which itself ought to tell you something.
I think the ones who are working off emotion the most are those who are afraid they won’t be able to pay their bills or that they’ll lose the company they fought so hard to build. And those emotions are causing them to push for a dangerous alternative to our already crappy reality. And I want to be clear: it is because I trust Donald Trump that I’m not right there with you freaking out. If anyone else were up there, I’d think it was all a sham or at least an overreaction. But I support Donald Trump and his leadership. And he treats this seriously.
I’m a history teacher. And I understand what you’re saying but we have had shutdowns before. In 1918, St. Louis shutdown all theaters, schools, and churches (among other things). This was when that was one of the 10 biggest cities in America. During World War 2, the government took control of practically everything. But then it ended. And this is going to end.
each event was a ratchet... you are correct.
in the US is has not been about revolution since 1776... civil war was last attempt... it has been incremental since then... little by little... each crisis, recession, war... slightly more control.
have there been bright spots? sure. but overall, the influence of government in our lives in American has done nothing increase.
The trouble is that they will keep releasing viruses to gain more power. They have to be stopped and an example made, or we end up worse than China's slaves. Tv.infowars.com Thursday's episode.
I don’t personally think that’s true, but let’s say it is: well then it’s a serious thing and we need to follow the President’s directives here.
It's the flu
0.66% MORTALITY RATE WHEN ADJUSTED FOR UNDIAGNOSED CASES
PLANNEDEMIC = PSYOP
So...
6x more lethal than the flu,
at least 3 times more contagious,
contagious for 5 to 14 days before symptoms show up,
no vaccine,
it's putting 20 year olds on ventilators.
Global case mortality rate after 1 million cases is 5%
20% of closed cases are death, 80% recovered, and
Actual deaths are tracking exactly the models - which show mitigation (social distancing, closing schools, shutting down non-essential businesses) is the only tool we have to save millions of lives.
And Trump is being blasted here for saving millions of lives because some cucks are fear-porning over missing a couple of paychecks.
Even if every non-essential business opens the demand is not there. People aren't going to go back to bars like before, restaurants, travel, hotels, sporting events, movies, concerts, nail salons, gyms, etc. like before.
The psyop is a real pandemic and trying to convince people it's not serious. It's what the Dems and the media did when it broke out all the way until March when Trump declared a national emergency.
Karen
Keep drinking that kool-aid homie.
3x-6x mortality rate BTW. Do you how many people a year die from cancer in the US alone? Can you tell me with out looking it up? I know how many since I have relatives with cancer. We should be spending trillions curing cancer. People like you are part of the problem.
Without looking it up, I’m thinking it’s around 500,000 annually. What’s the number?
Is cancer contagious, retard?
This part among others, specifically strikes me as bullshit. Before we even talk about how modelling exponential spread is bs and about the vitamins/antivirals/HCQ and dive into that whole rabbit hole, there's an important mitigation strategy that has not been widely employed until recently, namely, wearing masks. Yes, even a home-made mask is better than nothing.
The common arguments against this were and always have been total bullshit.
But people will touch the mask and their face. People touch their faces all the fucking time, mask or no mask.
Masks are harmful if you aren't trained properly. If a mask is more harmful if people aren't trained on how to use it properly, THEN PUT OUT material to SHOW people how to wear masks correctly.
Masks don't stop you from being infected. Even if this were true, and it isn't, wearing a mask would at least stop the person wearing it from spreading this contagion if they were unknowingly infected.
Masks can be a vector of transmission. And somehow your clothes or the pavement your spit lands on aren't?
As for people wearing masks causing a panic, you don't have to worry about panic when the MSM is doing all they can to create as much as possible while releasing as little useful intel as they can.
Whether this is incompetance or malice is up in the air. But, no, we haven't actually exhausted all the options before resorting to full on lockdown and an eventual dystopian nightmare. It is possible to have an economy and fight this at the same time, it's not mutually exclusive.
civil disobedience might be necessary soon, we cant keep doing this, we are destroying ourselves.
The thing is Trump is probably the biggest proponent of the economy. He does not want to shut it down but sees the consequences if he doesn't. It's a tightrope Trump is walking yet people here are blowing as hard as they can.
That being said, people here are young millennials who correctly think they have a very low mortality rate because of their age. Self-interest will always win out in the end. The vast majority of Trump supporters outside of this website are not millennials and will support the President.
What about May? June? September? December?
To slow it? We haven't had any new recorded cases in our county in a week... its not spreading?
As usual, NYC is fucking it up for everyone. Thousands of new cases a day, and thousands of snowbird faggots that flew the coop to bring hundreds of new cases to South Florida.
The most reliable number (albeit lagging) is new deaths per day. That's what we want to start going down.
My mother in law was an RN for 30 years before she passed away. Used to say that dying of old age, in reality, was dying of pneumonia, but it would be silly to put pneumonia as the cause of everyone's death.
Slight, but important CORRECTION...
Yes, we want to keep an eye on new deaths per day, BUT...
... the REAL number we should be looking at is new deaths per day WITH NO UNDERLYING CONDITIONS.
This should be the first question that Nipples Cuomo is asked every day.
I agree with everything you said except the conversation part. The conversation will never be had. We will have cost this country trillions, bankrupted hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of families, put more people into the pit of debt, and displaced many workers who will take weeks or months to find new places in work.
And the media will get away with being the terrorist arm of the DNC.
The new model predicting 100k-200k deaths is taking what's happening in NY and NJ and applying it to the other states. It is adjusting for population size and other things, but it's not controlling for population density. On top of that, NY government knew YEARS ago that the state was not prepared for a pandemic, and did nothing. Many other states were far better prepared. The CDC is deliberately creating faulty predictions and using them as an excuse to destroy the economy.
Here is the 2008 NYC Biological Preparedness site where they show all the planning for a pandemic including ventilator counts, hospital beds, all the stuff they talk about daily. I haven't found the current site, I suspect it isn't public facing.
https://web.archive.org/web/20090209160841/http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/bhpp/bhpp-focus-bio.shtml#12
It should be criminal that NY was not prepared for this when they had all the info.
That's 100% false. Fake news. I track it every day.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
They model every state individually.
To be fair, if I were Bill Gates I would keep infecting people thru every tool I had.
We know even Epsteins prison was compromised.
Why not all of New York? Hillary has connections.
Poor people. Fleeced top to bottom by deception and fraud.
And NC 🙄 a couple from NY got cussed out near me for lying about where they came from. They were visiting a dentist office and he blasted both of them for putting him, his staff, and customers at risk.
We just had our first confirmed case yesterday.
Oh no, someone got the flu? I hope 3-5 days of bedrest, coupled with hydration and fever reducers goes well for them.
I don't understand why CA has canceled school for the rest of the school year. School was initially canceled at the beginning of March for 3 weeks to "flatten the curve." Now the cancellation has been extended until the end of June. 3 months? For a group that generally doesn't get terribly sick from this?
I live in San Diego, and on April 1, our Congresswoman sent an email that said "849 cases among San Diego county residents. Fifteen county residents have died due to complications related to the coronavirus." In San Diego County, we have 3.3 million people. We're shutting down schools completely because 15 people have died? Meanwhile, we have had 20,500 cases of the flu and 105 flu deaths so far, but Coronavirus is the scarier disease? WTF?
So in my community, almost all the parents are still working. Some are essential workers who go out, such as nurses and doctors, some work from home. The kids need to be watched. Even the parents who work from home have to focus on work.
So grandmas and grandpas are doing the babysitting every day. Under normal circumstances, the kids see grandma and grandpa a couple of times a month. How are grandma and grandpa protected from the kids/grandkids germs?
Well fucking don’t visit grandma. I keep saying this to friends and family and they look at me like I’m the idiot.
92 cases in Knox County, TN...that's up like 4 or 5 from yesterday. Rumblings of school getting cancelled next week. Madness.
Have you checked /r/knoxville lately? They're all begging for a total shutdown.
I go there mostly for laughs... Like most sub's it's a liberal cesspool where you get downvoted into oblivion for having anything but a "progressive" thought. Hilarious when you consider the metro is solid red. Perfect example of reddit not being representative of shit
Because closing schools is the #1 step to mitigate spread. You should read some of the models.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
All the infection and death rates track exactly the same without mitigation. We already know this from actual data. You're looking at a snapshot at the very front end of an exponential curve.
Case mortality rate globally is 5%. Infection rate in Westchester NY was 1% of population - and that's tested positive. We don't know how many people are actually infected.
A 1% positive rate in SD would be 30,000 cases - New York numbers.
The infection rate is so high that doubling occurs in under a week without mitigation.
Luckily, California acted very quickly, and has great hospitals, especially in San Diego. We're buying time.
Otherwise there would be a much bigger problem - that still wouldn't be going away until 50% of the population is infected or we have a vaccine.
There's no other way to stop it. Vaccine or herd immunity.
What else would stop it?
If kids spread it without showing symptoms, families are going to start getting wiped out. And the families being wiped out are doctors, nurses, cops, grocery store workers, farmers, military, hotel workers, you name it.
The entire infrastructure is at risk - especially the military.
Did you hear the Admiral yesterday? He said before any ship goes out all the sailors who will be on a ship are quarantined for 14 days.
They know this is no joke. Every country in the world.
Except according to MIT and other research facilities, the spread is weather related and San Diego's climate is not conducive to a spread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtV3krGIuJk&t=4s
Question- do all coronavirus patients go straight to the ICU?
Can’t understand why POTUS has not figured out Fauci’s motives? We all can see it and we know about Clinton Foundation connection.
Maybe he's keeping them comfortable while a conversation ensues.
constantly on Chinese media giving interviews, it's so obvious
He has. Americans need to be force fed the Socialist dystopia they've been clamoring for. Being stuck in a prison 24/7 isn't living. Socialism sucks ass.
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. I think he knows.
Optics. The world revolves around bullshit like that.
I have family with small businesses on the line. My woman is in the restaurant industry. Stop this fucking bullshit now. People will literally starve at this rate.
Shutting down the food service industry is beginning to ripple effect. Oil and gas has already began to lay off laborers. Think many cars are being sold? Cell phone plans being sold? Clothes being sold at old navy? Fuck no. Hell my local mall is closed. 100% shut down. Heads need to roll after this.
Healthcare is being affected as well, as crazy as that sounds. I work for one of the big labs and they are offering voluntary Furlough for employees because general business is down 40%. For now i'm considered essential, but who knows how long that will last
I've been saying this also. The ideal head would be Xi Jinping.
Please Trump, do NOT let this last all of April, the American people can't handle not working.
Seriously, it’s getting aggravating. What the fuck is taking so long. The New York “trial” should have finished days ago.
It’s an ongoing clinical trial, it will never end. But the special designation of Compassionate Use allows doctors to both use the drug in real-time and allows the FDA to collect the data as if all of the public was enrolled in a trial.
So the question is how much data do we have so far and can meaningful conclusions be drawn. I reckon the answer is no because it takes weeks to follow up these patients to see if the drug actually worked and if the drug had any unforeseen consequences. Time.
100%
But it was also used in China, South Korea and the USA. A New York doctor had 699 patients and 100% success rate.
We need to push the cure to the hilt. No deaths = no pandemic = open the economy again = WINNING
I'm going back to normal after April. Maybe before then. Fuck this shit. Wash your hands and be mindful, but live your damn life. Can't lock up forever.
Coincidentally i'm pretty sure that's what the CDC recommends. State shut downs are coming from power hungry state-level governments
I can’t upvote this. Open everything back up NOW. Shelter the elderly in place, hell just the comorbid ones at that.
Are you with fuck face Fauci?
Trump is trying to save your dumb ass from extinction.
extinction, or nothing of a life to go back to, seems pretty much a lose-lose though. Yeah we survive, but to what? No job to go to, no business to run, mountains of debt, despair and a ruined economy. So, great, we're alive and all but now have to endure a world of suffering we didn't ask for.
What stats do you have that I’m not seeing? I have a higher chance of getting hit by a car today than dying from COVID 19 and so does 99.99% of this country.
Imagine thinking everyone's decrepit enough to get KO'd by the WuFlu
I feel the opposite
Maybe go back to /politics.
.win is for Trump supporters only. No exceptions.
Dude, you have no idea how long I was on TD and before all of you migrated here. Dumb people blindly follow and give up their rights at the first sign of trouble.
May 1: 30 DAYS TO SLOW THE SPREAD. Fuck off. Wait until the Karen's are out of money and can't watch Tiger King anymore, i bet the tune changes then
Severely underrated comment. Have an upvote.
I say we go back to work and let evolution run its course. The strong will survive.
just like we do with every other virus or disease.
The aged and sick will have to remain quarantined, on their own judgement.
Agree but I put it more towards late April you’ll start seeing riots and civil unrest. Everything collapses thereafter fairly quickly - everyone is at home and everyone is in the same boat.
Slow the spread of communism
It looks like we lost this round.
I look back at all the situations Trump has got us through these past three years (NK, Iran, ISIS, Canada/Mexico) and now corona virus, and I think, what if Hillary had won the election? My God..we would've been SCREWED.
We would be dead by now.
Or speaking Russian.
This wouldn’t have happened with Hillary. Because the media would ignore it just like they ignored h1n1 to protect Obama. And we would have been fine. Just like we would have been if we ignored this.
Trump will not lose my vote but he’s losing me every time he allows fuck face Fauci to dictate our futures. Fuck that piece of shit little man
Biden vs Trump, Trump will always wins that battle. A Democrat wouldn't even care about the economy. But Trump has to 4d himself out of this trap soon or he will lose the independents.
Trump will not lose my vote but he’s losing me every time ...Thanks for the concerned troll shill. Y'all are so easy to spot.
Now cities are closing down summer activities, pools and parks and ordering only family members can congregate together at a park. We are allowing every aspect of our lives to be regulated. Destroying businesses, isolating extended families and more for something that has killed way less than the flu. Add to this we need it to spread to get the 65% herd immunity which won’t happen if no one can mingle.
You expressed my thoughts way better than I could have.
This whole "flatten the curve" crap is doing nothing but prolonging economic destuction, and preventing the development of herd immunity. Let it burn through the population like any other virus, let at-risk people stay at home, let the rest of us get back to work.
Good God, we somehow survived H1N1, SARS, the Hong Kong Flu, etc. without all of this bullshit without US governors turning into dictators overnight, without a seeming majority of the US population cheering the overnight destruction of civil rights, without "conservatives" sitting by and supporting the destruction of civil rights, and without gleefully congratulating ourselves as we destroyed the country's economy.
The Coronavirus has, in two months, already killed half as many people as H1N1 did in its entire year long run. The US is seeing daily infections of the Coronavirus go up by higher numbers than total world wide infections of SARS in its entire run.
This. Is. Not. Comparable.
OK, Karen.
We are doing this wrong we should do what we did h1n1
And it is particularly insidious. I believe SARS was primarily transmissible by symptomatic carriers. This thing is like a stealth bomber.
L. O. L.
O. K. Doom. Er.
1230 days to slow the spread
I want to know why (well I know why... fake news) every morning some asshole is on TV. “Nurses are protesting, etc etc”
Our country can’t handle an extra 200k sick people? That seems like such a minuscule number. How the fuck can anyone believe that.
That’s like 20-30 people extra per hospital.
It's not evenly distributed though
I know this ..... However the news story gave that implication.
It wasn’t like “NYC” it was “Hospitals Nationwide”
Not the one by friend just went to for a broken wrist. He was in and out in an hour. People laughing. No drama.
I know his story isn’t the same everywhere. But so isn’t a New York City hospital.
However the news made it out to be everywhere
Up Next: 45 Days To Slow The Spread (Livestream starting soon)
15 days. Who said anything about 30? Now that you mention it 45 should do the trick so 25 years should cut it.
$5? What do you need $10 for? I can't believe you'd ever come to me begging for $20.
Neither Trump nor the federal government have forced anyone to stay home. These are guidelines that are intended to keep the Chinese Virus from overwhelming the health care system. Each state governor sets the restrictions on their state. Accusing the people Trump has entrusted to provide him public health guidance of nefarious motives makes you sound like an ignorant jackass.
Yeah but they took away anything to do when you leave
yeah but they're giving local leaders a license to take it and run imposing more harsh crackdowns. We're not necessarily mad at the federal level, just what's going on locally. Sorry, but if the first 15 day lockdown wasn't enough, what makes them think another 30 days or more is going to do it?
Open economy > lives saved from covid19
I’m standing in a line at Costco that rivals a new ride at Disney on a peak day. Enough of this bullshit.
Unfortunately there aren’t many open but I’m doing it when I can. Seriously it’s enough.
It will be forever soon enough.
20 years to stop the spread.
No but seriously this is gonna hurt but is necessary. I know there are a lot of skeptics here, but China really made a very potent bioweapon that is not going to kill a lot of people instantly. It'll make them sick, not make them immune and destabilize countries as their healthcare collapses.
I expect good news around Easter with a number of states being allowed to continue as normal and the Democrat tumors being isolated.
Why is he nuking small businesses and restaurants? Half of businesses will be closed permanently by then because of these recommendations. The leftist people in local governments are seizing this opportunity to lock people up for gathering (a constitutionally protected right) for trying to worship (also constitutionally protected) or just grab a meal. It is astonishing to watch this country implode under the guise of stopping a measly flu.
Lets put blame where it belongs. China and New York.
Just China thanks. And the media. And the overzealous governors and mayors using this opportunity to take away rights for the glory later to say they "Acted fearlessly to save lives"
What the fuck is Fauci's deal? He's trying to downplay hydroxychloroquine AGAIN, despite mounting evidence and the FDA's approval. And of course all the news media outlets are running with it. I wasn't so anti-Fauci as a lot of other people but this is it for me. Fauci needs to be replaced ASAP because his obsessive negativism about everything except a vaccine (that won't be ready for a year+) is wrecking the economy. I'm starting to wonder if this guy really just has the pharmaceutical industry's interests at heart and not America's.
“Give me liberty or give me the coronavirus.“
Trump is being presented information that states 1-2 million Americans will die if nothing is done. Even with locking down the economy, he is told 100,000-200,000 could die. His actions are entirely consistent if he believes these numbers are true.
People here are rebelling against this idea because:
They don't believe the numbers. Doctors are misreporting deaths. The models are wrong. This whole thing is a hoax. Or variations thereof.
They believe the numbers but don't think it will cause them harm as they are under 30.
Appealing to the good nature of the 2nd group (you're protecting your grandparents) appear to be failing as self-interest is paramount (can't pay the bills, I want to have fun and live life). The stimulus package will appeal to the group that is worried about bills. I'm not sure what can be done to appeal the to group that wants to go on Spring Break/Mardi Gras.
I'm not sure how Trump can change the minds of the first group significantly. The Task Force press conferences help for the ones that want transparency. The ones that just want to believe will not have their minds changed no matter what. I remember the thread here complaining that there was only 59 deaths total in the US and why we are taking action for only 59 deaths.
You forgot that one.
I think that falls into #1. Unless you're saying those people are okay with 1-2 million Americans dying from this disease?
Please cite your 2-3 million person estimate. Imperial college already took their forecast down to 200k. So don't use that one.
Just to be clear, 2-3 million deaths in the US would put this on par with the Spanish flu in terms of population adjusted fatalities.
Let's work through an example. The VAST majority of Spanish flu deaths occurred in September / October of 1918. And that was with many communties taking the same social distancing measures that we are taking today.
New Jersey one month into the Spanish flu (adjusted for today's population) would have had over 30,000 deaths, on our way to 60,000.
We currently have less than 700 in new jersey.
So you're entire premise (that this is as bad as the Spanish Flu) is complete and utter bullshit.
You're either a shill, retarded or both.
I said 1-2 million if nothing is done. Where are you reading 2-3 million?
I understand you are stressed out and panicking. If you can't control your anger, then this conversation will not be fruitful and will cease.
Oh, sorry - 2 million is still on par with the Spanish Flu (I'll let you do the math if you know how to divide and multiply).
And even if we go with your 1 million estimate, new jersey should have 15,000 deaths by now. We have less than 700.
And I'm not mad or panicking. I think the guy throwing out unfounded death forecasts in the millions is the one panicking, wouldn't you say?
And you still haven't addressed the issue of a decade long depression. How will that impact public health over the next ten years. Got any bullshit projections for that one?
where you getting 10yrs from? can you cite your source for this prediction.
Trump is probably the greatest proponent of the economy yet he has had to make this tough decision to shut it down. He is walking a tightrope yet the audience here are huffing and puffing as hard as they can. I actually want the economy to open up as soon as possible knowing there will be additional loss of life. The crux is to pick a point where there is very little chance of rebound covid spread and where lives damaged from the economy outweigh the lives lost by the disease.
With Trump shutting the border down back In January has stopped this from being total chaos. Millions would of die.As it is now....if we get away with only 100K than it will be a miracle.Lets put blame where it belongs. China,Media,Democrats and New York not Trump and his administration.
I agree completely. Hillary or any other Republican President would not have shut down travel from China for fear of being called a racist.
Ironically, there was economic argument against shutting down travel from China that some people were making. It's ironic because some people who cheered the travel ban back then are the same ones making that economic argument now.
If nothing is done, if at the beginning of this back in late January, everyone laughed it off and absolutely nothing was done, fine I could see maybe 100k-200k deaths. Not now. CASES? sure by the time this thing settles down, sure, but not deaths. We've taken the precaution measures, people are in their home jail and all. Where are all these extra deaths coming from if the chance of death from this thing is supposedly so minuscule that the lions share of people survive with little to no symptoms?
I can only hope that a large majority of the people in this thread that are sowing anger against Trump and the doctors are doing so in bad faith and are here to just to cause chaos.
Exactly.
People were screaming "concern troll" at pedes supporting Trump from the beginning. They intentionally co-opted to term "concern troll" to make it mean anybody concerned about the virus, not what Trump was doing.
Just like the leftists they are, they always project. And they can't meme. Notice there are no memes coming from them.
They also are notoriously bad at math. They use AOC logic. Because we have 59 deaths now, and 26 of them were in one nursing home in Washington, the virus is exaggerated. That was the first clue how serious it was. Mass deaths in one nursing home meant is spread through the air, and was deadly.
They will go away. Their bitching does nothing IRL. What they are trying to do is destroy .win and keep new Trump supporters from signing up.
This is never going to end, is it? This is going to just keep getting pushed back, and pushed back, and pushed back, and we ARE going to have to vote by mail in November.
The Left Response: "Trump killed us all. Vote blue no matter who."
so, what, we're supposed to just do what we're told like good little sheep?
Apparently. And we're not supposed to question whether the "cure" is worse than the disease. Which is surprising since Trump himself even questioned this, but now the panicked Karens on here are celebrating this "cure" that is destroying the country.
You mean fucking Fauci and that bitch Birx? Fuck that. Absolutely fuck those two fuckers.
Most of the comments are concerned Trolls being paid by China.
in your mind maybe
what happened to 15 days to slow the fucking spread?
1530 Days to stop the spread.Next week, it will be 60, then 120, then 240, then 480... can we please cut the crap.
Better yet we should know the results of the ny testing of HCQ sometime next week they just started yesterday.
Repeat every week
We need to be wary, Italy had civil violence and if it starts here it won't be easy to stop. Forget deepstate vs Trump, think every disparate group taking pot shots at each other and whole cities burning.
I kind of get the violence
Would just focus on getting drugs and medical supplies to where they are needed. Bypassing all the democrats in certain states.
They said the war would be over by Christmas. You need to be careful saying things that are out of your control. Treat the people.
20M unemployed by Easter
Next up: Everyone dig yourself a ‘fraidy hole 8 feet deep
LOL. We're JUST TWO WEEKS AWAY!!!
Most people don't have the savings to survive 6 weeks without a paycheck and $1200 isn't going to help.
Pretty sure wife had it back in November. Dad (63) had it in February. I had it in January/February. I agree with you 100%, country should open tomorrow
thats why they enhanced unemployment and are giving out grants to small business if they pay their employees
Wtf, where are you seeing this?
He's a concern troll. Spreading misinformation. Mnuchin was clear yesterday. The $1200 is coming right away. A couple of weeks.
lol, that isn't even close to true. go back to reddit cuck
mnuchin treasury sec answered that question yesterday. confirmed you'll get in the next two weeks. go to reddit cuck
I can imagine it would be bad, given that nobody is allowed to work.
Demand for oil dropped. It's what caused the oil price wars. Oil dropped 30% overnight. Price of oil is leading indicator for growth and profits. If there's no demand, it means businesses are cutting back.
Stock market isn't coming back until demand for goods and services goes up.
Won't happen until the virus is in the rear view mirror.
It won’t be. A lot of companies are planning on cuts even if we open up on April 30, when your company says that you stop spending.
Fuck the stockfags. I'm so sick of everything negative causing them to melt down. Investors have no cajones. The slightest bit of bad news and SELL SELL SELL! CRASH THE MARKET!
Every single person who is for keeping this shutdown going theoretically should be pro-life right? Unfortunately I dont think that's the case. It's sad just how much sway the MSM has over your average person.