Im an ex health ins broker of like 8 years. I can't handle Reddit when it comes to healthcare and insurance.
All you have to do is be a resonsible adult and you will have the best healthcare in the world with relatively little to no out of pocket expenses.
People also never like to bring up the fact how much they are fucking taxed in socialist countries. I can't imagine having like a 20% sales tax on top of higher income tax and other bullshit taxes.
If you make a decent living you will quickly see how you would end up paying so much more in taxes in those countries your "free healthcare" ends up costing me more than my monthly premiums and my yearly deducitble.
If you are a basement dwelling Reddit cuck you don't understand this concept.
If you make a decent living you will quickly see how you would end up paying so much more in taxes in those countries your "free healthcare" ends up costing me more than my monthly premiums and my yearly deducitble.
And there's the problem. The lefties pushing for "free" shit for the most part don't have decent jobs with good pay. They have no/useless skills and are working jobs more suitable for teenagers. There's no reason a 30 year-old should be slinging coffee; a junior in HS can do that.
The lefties pushing for "free" shit for the most part don't have decent jobs with good pay. They have no/useless skills and are working jobs more suitable for teenagers.
My experience in the games industry says otherwise. It's overrun with leftists who don't comprehend that they ARE the ones being taxed heavily. My experience with them is that they think free healthcare only means taxing people richer than them. They also spend their extra income on new games, new merch, new drugs and can't understand why someone would save up to buy a house or investments.
I've seen similar in my industry. We hire kids straight out of college paying $50k and they don't know shit about the world. We were out drinking after work and I asked one of them "do you believe the government can spend your money more effectively than you can?" He emphatically responded "YES!!!" I was speechless.
But when the "good jobs" are outsourced out the ass (from programing to manufacturing), and also REQUIRING a 100k bachelor's degree for an entry level job.
Even in fucking tech sales, where back in the day was making a company millions a year in profits to get over looked and not even interviewed.
My friends a VP and knows my skillset - zero chance of hirings due to this insaine requirement. Their CEO put it in place 5 years ago - he sees it as ironic that he doesn't have a degree (been with the company 10 years)
Yet "more jobs than people" to fill them, why can't we find good people shit.
Well cucked HR and insane prices of college.
Some of the best sales people I've seen in my life are stuck waiting tables in their 30s.
a lot of them are "artistes" and "creatives" tho, aka drawing shitty ecomics on Tumblr and thinking they are the next Walt Kelly or Garry Trudeau. They need time to "pursue their singular vision and joy" and a "traditional workspace" wouldn't give them the "nuturing, sustainable environment" in which to pursue their role of "social satirist".
Also how long it can take to see a doctor. Free healthcare is great until you’re sick. Read of someone who had a breast lump- had to wait 9 months for an (ultrasound or MRI, can’t remember) and of course by them she had full blown cancer (she may have before, but at least she could’ve started treatment 9 months earlier)
Meanwhile my son has a condition that often comes with heart abnormalities so as a PRECAUTION, not a treatment, he was referred on a Monday for an echocardiogram. He had the echocardiogram that Friday. (He is fine)
I have a friend in Denmark who had breast cancer. the only option they gave her was a full mastectomy even though other procedures existed and are widely used. She was at least able to get reconstructive surgery 6 years later.
Reminds me of a YouTube channel I used to watch about what life in the USSR was like.
He said they would pull all of people’s teeth at the first sign of cavities and give them full dentures- guess they thought it’d be cheaper in the long run. Same with your friend.
Cut off their leg to prevent them from rolling their ankle. This is the final form of mEdIcArE fOr aLL
My husband and I live very comfortably on one income in a state with no state income tax. We pay $260 a month for health insurance for the two of us through his employer. We own our own home and have almost no debt. It's really not that difficult! Medicare for all would ruin our lives! We would pay a fortune in taxes way more than the $260 we currently pay for our health insurance.
I thought I'd check this out comparing US to Australia as I've always wondered what the difference is.
Background: Australia has guaranteed healthcare available to everyone. It has optional private insurance for improved care if you want to pay for it.
Australia's total spending on healthcare is half the US. It looks like the US pays more than everyone. I think that means most other OECD countries pay less per year for healthcare. OECD Data
The standard of care could be different in those countries.
Comparing resources Australia has (per capita)
more doctors OECD Data and
the same number of nurses OECD Data
more beds OECD Data
more CT scanners OECD Data
less MRI machines OECD Data
less mammography machines OECD Data
slightly less radiotherapy machines OECD Data
Australia has
higher life expectancy OECD Data
similar (slightly higher) deaths from cancer OECD Data
Australia's government is relatively smaller OECD Data
Australians pay relatively more tax (~4% of GDP more), but that doesn't seem to be due to health care spending.
Health care spending as in the US healthcare costs 16.9% of GDP, and 9.3% of GDP in Australia.
You can skim through this data to see where US spends more or less in a sector than Australia. OECD Data
You’re out of your mind. USA has 35 ICU beds per 100,000, Australia has 9. This is the most important metric right now. Everyone knows we have the best healthcare in the world, that’s why we send our doctors to care for our allies’ leaders when they get sick.
And you’ve got to wonder what goes into the calculation for GDP% spent on healthcare. Does that include R&D? Do you know? Those numbers are calculated by people trying to shove commie healthcare down our throats. Don’t go throwing out these kinds of cherry picked stats if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
When I was a poor as shit student (pre-Obamacare) I went online and bought barebones health insurance for $70/month. I spent three days in a neurological ward and came out with $5000 in debt. I called the hospital and told them I would have trouble covering that, was there something I could do? They asked me to fill out a financial hardship application and my final bill based on assets and income? $0
The rest is bullshit. Even if I had had to pay off $5000. Is that crippling debt? If you knew how many fucking tests and scans they did on me you would be amazed that my bill was only that.
In this country we value personal responsibility. Get your insurance or maybe you’ll get fucked over (though probably still not.) my idiot sister (huge SJW OBV) went skiing without health insurance and fucked up her knee requiring several surgeries. She got a huge bill. After paying it diligently for 3 years (and complaining the whole fucking time) the hospital forgave her debt. Despite this miracle of generosity she’s still obviously demands uNiVerSal HeaLthCare.
After paying it diligently for 3 years (and complaining the whole fucking time) the hospital forgave her debt. Despite this miracle of generosity she’s still obviously demands uNiVerSal HeaLthCare.
So instead of paying her debt for 3 years, she wants to be enslaved to pay debt (taxes) for all her life? That's a mighty poor trade.
America really already has a form of non governmentalized socialized health care in that the rich get soaked at the hospitals for total radical cashectomies and literally any illegal alien or poor person can walk into an ER and get treated for free. The big difference is, the fucking hospitals make you haggle over a bill like you are at an Egyptian market.
The claim was that countries with socialised health care spend more on healthcare.
That doesn't appear to be the case.
In the case of Australia the US spends more on health care per capita.
There's no doubt more variables. But on the whole its not obvious from OECD data that spending is greater, or quality of care is vastly different.
ICU beds is a variable that's not in the OECD data. In this environment its helpful, but at every other time it is likely a waste, adding to cost with no benefit. It appears that the best model for dealing with scenarios requiring much more beds would be to have an action plan for rapidly expanding ICU beds when needed.
The reality is just that US healthcare is more expensive because it is on demand and a lot of problems get created by the government through attempting to increase access, which means an increase in demand, whilst dictating profit margins to insurers and hospitals. Also there is the problem of those who use the service without paying. For example illegals get free healthcare in many states. Who pays for it? The American taxpayer.
For example the ACA which has inflated medical costs significantly with it's 80/20 rule. An insurer MUST spend 80% of it's premiums on healthcare... do you see the problem? If I have to spend 1000 to earn 200 I could also spend 10000 and get 2000. Otherwise they'd have to write a rebate check in 3 years for too high a premium. Not to mention that doctors are very happy being paid extremely well sometimes twice or three times as much as their counterparts in universal coverage countries.
Here is the experience of a GP moving from the NHS to Universal Coverage.
So to summarize the whole mess of government regulation. The hospital is happy cause it gets more money. The insurer is happy cause it's premium can go up and their margin gets bigger for the same care. The US used to spend barely 5% of GDP on healthcare. And the more federal programs were introduced and the more regulation was put in place the more the cost shot up.
I wonder what Australia life expectancy would be if they had a segment of their population insistent on throwing birthday parties for a 1 year old in the streets (look up LAPD stops birthday party on YouTube) during a pandemic, or insistent on going to Spring Break / Mardi Gras, or blatantly ignoring social distancing until under threat of law, etc.
The point I am getting at is we have some really, REALLY stupid people in this country who do some really stupid things with their health. Whether it is abusing prescription medications, eating horribly because of living in a country of excesses, to just being willfully ignorant of taking care of themselves and amplifying bad habits and bad health choices.
Is it any wonder the people who make medications and provide health care here aren't swimming in even more money when these people gleefully and foolishly ruin their health?
Right. Take out some of these sanctuary leftist cities and then compare.
We have ruined many of the things we had working for us with illegal immigration and taking in so many refugees. Look at education. MN used to be pretty solid. Not so much these days.
They also include all gun homicides and car accidents in the mortality stat, among other non-health related factors. The US has more guns and hours-driven than Australia.
More importantly than all of that are healthy habits. We're one of the most obese nations on the planet, which has a large impact on life expectancy, yet absolutely nothing to do with the healthcare system.
It's because If we (Canadians) travel to the USA we need travel insurance, because getting sick/injured while visiting CAN cost an arm/leg.
I'm not sure on the exact price structure but I recall watching something a few years ago where it costs like 8000$ to re-attach your pinky finger, 12,000$ for the index finger, 18,000$ for a thumb... So if you're paying out of pocket and you cut off 2-3 fingers at once you can basically choose which one is most important and forget about the other(s)..
In Canada, they'll re-attach them all 'for free'. It's not free of course, it's paid for by hard working Canadians through personal and business taxes.
Even though everyone thinks Canadian healthcare is 'free', it also doesn't cover a lot of us. Sure, it's free to get a bed in a ward with 30 other people, but a semi-private room (sharing with one other person) will cost you over 1000$/week.. (which I guess seems cheap compared to most peoples' rent these days)..
Also insurance companies were explicitly saying they won't cover you if you get COVID-19.. so that's why 100% of snowbirds flew/drove home back around March 15th.
Florida must feel kinda strange these days with no Canadians around..
I agree. Why would the sick person have to crawl out of bed and drive to the doctor while sick? The doctor could come to the sick person and it would make more sense.
Your kids epipens are expensive because a democratic senator was able to use his influence to place his daughter as CEO of the company that makes them and used the FDA to block all competitors so they can charge whatever they want.
In short, socialized healthcare causes those prices
It's the difference between wanting to spend money on something, needing to spend money on something, and a healthcare cost that you didn't see coming/HAVE to pay. We don't mind spending tens of thousands on cars, a ski trip, a pool, etc. because we want it or need/want it. Having to spend 100k to save your life is obviously money well spent, but it's still annoying. Icing on the cake is insurance and hospitals playing yoyo with prices, making the one with the wallet feel not as great about justifying actual costs. Just a frame of mind thing.
Agree. My sister in law thinks nothing of spending thousands on a one week family vacation. But her daughter had a sledding accident and she was calling my in-laws (her parents) because the MRI was around $1,000. Now this is a 55 year old woman calling mom and dad simply because she does not want to spend her money on medical stuff, because her money is for the boat, the vacations, the cabin, But mom and dad are supposed to cover the MRI, cause she can’t afford it. Maybe pay the MRI and skip the vacation weekend. Needs v wants, like you said.
My dad has had both knees replaced, a hip replacement, and back surgery. No debt. The only difference is if he were in Canada or the UK he would be still in crippling pain waiting on his hip replacement and probably one of the knees.
Im an ex health ins broker of like 8 years. I can't handle Reddit when it comes to healthcare and insurance.
All you have to do is be a resonsible adult and you will have the best healthcare in the world with relatively little to no out of pocket expenses.
People also never like to bring up the fact how much they are fucking taxed in socialist countries. I can't imagine having like a 20% sales tax on top of higher income tax and other bullshit taxes.
If you make a decent living you will quickly see how you would end up paying so much more in taxes in those countries your "free healthcare" ends up costing me more than my monthly premiums and my yearly deducitble.
If you are a basement dwelling Reddit cuck you don't understand this concept.
And there's the problem. The lefties pushing for "free" shit for the most part don't have decent jobs with good pay. They have no/useless skills and are working jobs more suitable for teenagers. There's no reason a 30 year-old should be slinging coffee; a junior in HS can do that.
My experience in the games industry says otherwise. It's overrun with leftists who don't comprehend that they ARE the ones being taxed heavily. My experience with them is that they think free healthcare only means taxing people richer than them. They also spend their extra income on new games, new merch, new drugs and can't understand why someone would save up to buy a house or investments.
I've seen similar in my industry. We hire kids straight out of college paying $50k and they don't know shit about the world. We were out drinking after work and I asked one of them "do you believe the government can spend your money more effectively than you can?" He emphatically responded "YES!!!" I was speechless.
Agree. Some jobs are merely entry level, not careers
Too right.
But when the "good jobs" are outsourced out the ass (from programing to manufacturing), and also REQUIRING a 100k bachelor's degree for an entry level job.
Even in fucking tech sales, where back in the day was making a company millions a year in profits to get over looked and not even interviewed.
My friends a VP and knows my skillset - zero chance of hirings due to this insaine requirement. Their CEO put it in place 5 years ago - he sees it as ironic that he doesn't have a degree (been with the company 10 years)
Yet "more jobs than people" to fill them, why can't we find good people shit.
Well cucked HR and insane prices of college.
Some of the best sales people I've seen in my life are stuck waiting tables in their 30s.
a lot of them are "artistes" and "creatives" tho, aka drawing shitty ecomics on Tumblr and thinking they are the next Walt Kelly or Garry Trudeau. They need time to "pursue their singular vision and joy" and a "traditional workspace" wouldn't give them the "nuturing, sustainable environment" in which to pursue their role of "social satirist".
Also how long it can take to see a doctor. Free healthcare is great until you’re sick. Read of someone who had a breast lump- had to wait 9 months for an (ultrasound or MRI, can’t remember) and of course by them she had full blown cancer (she may have before, but at least she could’ve started treatment 9 months earlier)
Meanwhile my son has a condition that often comes with heart abnormalities so as a PRECAUTION, not a treatment, he was referred on a Monday for an echocardiogram. He had the echocardiogram that Friday. (He is fine)
Glad your son is ok!
Thank you!
I have a friend in Denmark who had breast cancer. the only option they gave her was a full mastectomy even though other procedures existed and are widely used. She was at least able to get reconstructive surgery 6 years later.
Reminds me of a YouTube channel I used to watch about what life in the USSR was like.
He said they would pull all of people’s teeth at the first sign of cavities and give them full dentures- guess they thought it’d be cheaper in the long run. Same with your friend.
Cut off their leg to prevent them from rolling their ankle. This is the final form of mEdIcArE fOr aLL
It's craziness!
My husband and I live very comfortably on one income in a state with no state income tax. We pay $260 a month for health insurance for the two of us through his employer. We own our own home and have almost no debt. It's really not that difficult! Medicare for all would ruin our lives! We would pay a fortune in taxes way more than the $260 we currently pay for our health insurance.
That's the issue right there, lol
I thought I'd check this out comparing US to Australia as I've always wondered what the difference is.
Background: Australia has guaranteed healthcare available to everyone. It has optional private insurance for improved care if you want to pay for it.
Australia's total spending on healthcare is half the US. It looks like the US pays more than everyone. I think that means most other OECD countries pay less per year for healthcare. OECD Data
The standard of care could be different in those countries.
Comparing resources Australia has (per capita) more doctors OECD Data and the same number of nurses OECD Data more beds OECD Data more CT scanners OECD Data less MRI machines OECD Data less mammography machines OECD Data slightly less radiotherapy machines OECD Data
Australia has higher life expectancy OECD Data similar (slightly higher) deaths from cancer OECD Data
Australia's government is relatively smaller OECD Data
Australians pay relatively more tax (~4% of GDP more), but that doesn't seem to be due to health care spending.
Health care spending as in the US healthcare costs 16.9% of GDP, and 9.3% of GDP in Australia.
You can skim through this data to see where US spends more or less in a sector than Australia. OECD Data
You’re out of your mind. USA has 35 ICU beds per 100,000, Australia has 9. This is the most important metric right now. Everyone knows we have the best healthcare in the world, that’s why we send our doctors to care for our allies’ leaders when they get sick.
And you’ve got to wonder what goes into the calculation for GDP% spent on healthcare. Does that include R&D? Do you know? Those numbers are calculated by people trying to shove commie healthcare down our throats. Don’t go throwing out these kinds of cherry picked stats if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
When I was a poor as shit student (pre-Obamacare) I went online and bought barebones health insurance for $70/month. I spent three days in a neurological ward and came out with $5000 in debt. I called the hospital and told them I would have trouble covering that, was there something I could do? They asked me to fill out a financial hardship application and my final bill based on assets and income? $0
The rest is bullshit. Even if I had had to pay off $5000. Is that crippling debt? If you knew how many fucking tests and scans they did on me you would be amazed that my bill was only that.
In this country we value personal responsibility. Get your insurance or maybe you’ll get fucked over (though probably still not.) my idiot sister (huge SJW OBV) went skiing without health insurance and fucked up her knee requiring several surgeries. She got a huge bill. After paying it diligently for 3 years (and complaining the whole fucking time) the hospital forgave her debt. Despite this miracle of generosity she’s still obviously demands uNiVerSal HeaLthCare.
So instead of paying her debt for 3 years, she wants to be enslaved to pay debt (taxes) for all her life? That's a mighty poor trade.
America really already has a form of non governmentalized socialized health care in that the rich get soaked at the hospitals for total radical cashectomies and literally any illegal alien or poor person can walk into an ER and get treated for free. The big difference is, the fucking hospitals make you haggle over a bill like you are at an Egyptian market.
The claim was that countries with socialised health care spend more on healthcare.
That doesn't appear to be the case.
In the case of Australia the US spends more on health care per capita.
There's no doubt more variables. But on the whole its not obvious from OECD data that spending is greater, or quality of care is vastly different.
ICU beds is a variable that's not in the OECD data. In this environment its helpful, but at every other time it is likely a waste, adding to cost with no benefit. It appears that the best model for dealing with scenarios requiring much more beds would be to have an action plan for rapidly expanding ICU beds when needed.
The reality is just that US healthcare is more expensive because it is on demand and a lot of problems get created by the government through attempting to increase access, which means an increase in demand, whilst dictating profit margins to insurers and hospitals. Also there is the problem of those who use the service without paying. For example illegals get free healthcare in many states. Who pays for it? The American taxpayer.
For example the ACA which has inflated medical costs significantly with it's 80/20 rule. An insurer MUST spend 80% of it's premiums on healthcare... do you see the problem? If I have to spend 1000 to earn 200 I could also spend 10000 and get 2000. Otherwise they'd have to write a rebate check in 3 years for too high a premium. Not to mention that doctors are very happy being paid extremely well sometimes twice or three times as much as their counterparts in universal coverage countries.
Here is the experience of a GP moving from the NHS to Universal Coverage.
https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/views-from-the-nhs-frontline/2015/sep/07/moving-to-canada-to-work-as-a-gp-was-the-best-decision-ive-ever-made
Note that he still makes roughly 2/3rds of the wage a US Family Physician would.
https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Family_Physician_%2F_Doctor/Salary https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/doctor/canada https://ca.indeed.com/salaries/general-practitioner-Salaries
https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-family-physician-6011329#2
So to summarize the whole mess of government regulation. The hospital is happy cause it gets more money. The insurer is happy cause it's premium can go up and their margin gets bigger for the same care. The US used to spend barely 5% of GDP on healthcare. And the more federal programs were introduced and the more regulation was put in place the more the cost shot up.
This may be an interesting read on the subject.
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/HistoricalNHEPaper.pdf
It's surprising to me that people seem so positive about the current US system considering how expensive it appears to be.
The argument from the left that the system is not working as well as it could be appears completely acceptable.
The solution from them doesn't have to be accepted to accept that premise; it's not like socialising health care is the only option to try.
"Australia has higher life expectancy..."
I wonder what Australia life expectancy would be if they had a segment of their population insistent on throwing birthday parties for a 1 year old in the streets (look up LAPD stops birthday party on YouTube) during a pandemic, or insistent on going to Spring Break / Mardi Gras, or blatantly ignoring social distancing until under threat of law, etc.
The point I am getting at is we have some really, REALLY stupid people in this country who do some really stupid things with their health. Whether it is abusing prescription medications, eating horribly because of living in a country of excesses, to just being willfully ignorant of taking care of themselves and amplifying bad habits and bad health choices.
Is it any wonder the people who make medications and provide health care here aren't swimming in even more money when these people gleefully and foolishly ruin their health?
Right. Take out some of these sanctuary leftist cities and then compare.
We have ruined many of the things we had working for us with illegal immigration and taking in so many refugees. Look at education. MN used to be pretty solid. Not so much these days.
I bet I can guess what type of birthday party it was without even watching the video.
Did it look something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shvNAq6jv9g
This is the culture by the way, nothing to do with race.
They also include all gun homicides and car accidents in the mortality stat, among other non-health related factors. The US has more guns and hours-driven than Australia.
More importantly than all of that are healthy habits. We're one of the most obese nations on the planet, which has a large impact on life expectancy, yet absolutely nothing to do with the healthcare system.
Cherry-picked data. Good to know, but only tells part of the story.
This article was interesting.
https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2019/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries
I think you can accept the argument from the left that health care is expensive whilst also not wanting socialised health care.
The entire country of Australia has less people than Texas.
Also a smaller economy by every conceivable metric.
Texas economy: $1.9 trillion (29.4m people)
Australian economy: $1.37 trillion (25.4m people)
Let's compare Luxembourg to the USA next...haha
We love our Canadian bros.
It's because If we (Canadians) travel to the USA we need travel insurance, because getting sick/injured while visiting CAN cost an arm/leg.
I'm not sure on the exact price structure but I recall watching something a few years ago where it costs like 8000$ to re-attach your pinky finger, 12,000$ for the index finger, 18,000$ for a thumb... So if you're paying out of pocket and you cut off 2-3 fingers at once you can basically choose which one is most important and forget about the other(s)..
In Canada, they'll re-attach them all 'for free'. It's not free of course, it's paid for by hard working Canadians through personal and business taxes.
Even though everyone thinks Canadian healthcare is 'free', it also doesn't cover a lot of us. Sure, it's free to get a bed in a ward with 30 other people, but a semi-private room (sharing with one other person) will cost you over 1000$/week.. (which I guess seems cheap compared to most peoples' rent these days)..
Also insurance companies were explicitly saying they won't cover you if you get COVID-19.. so that's why 100% of snowbirds flew/drove home back around March 15th.
Florida must feel kinda strange these days with no Canadians around..
Honestly, a few thousand bucks for the medical marvel is reattaching body parts seems like a bargain
People are largely spoiled and can’t spot a good deal if their life depended on it.
Fuckin right I'd shell out some g's to get my fingies back.
The human body is pretty amazing. You can essentially crazy glue/duct tape things back on and they'll 'take'...
The tricky part is making it take with minimal scar tissue and not at a weird angle.
Well damn! You just saved me $12,000!
I wish all hospital beds were private. Cramming sick people together would just make me sicker.
I think there should be an army of Doctors who make house calls.
Why did Doctor House Calls ever stop being a 'thing'?
I agree. Why would the sick person have to crawl out of bed and drive to the doctor while sick? The doctor could come to the sick person and it would make more sense.
Your kids epipens are expensive because a democratic senator was able to use his influence to place his daughter as CEO of the company that makes them and used the FDA to block all competitors so they can charge whatever they want.
In short, socialized healthcare causes those prices
It's the difference between wanting to spend money on something, needing to spend money on something, and a healthcare cost that you didn't see coming/HAVE to pay. We don't mind spending tens of thousands on cars, a ski trip, a pool, etc. because we want it or need/want it. Having to spend 100k to save your life is obviously money well spent, but it's still annoying. Icing on the cake is insurance and hospitals playing yoyo with prices, making the one with the wallet feel not as great about justifying actual costs. Just a frame of mind thing.
Agree. My sister in law thinks nothing of spending thousands on a one week family vacation. But her daughter had a sledding accident and she was calling my in-laws (her parents) because the MRI was around $1,000. Now this is a 55 year old woman calling mom and dad simply because she does not want to spend her money on medical stuff, because her money is for the boat, the vacations, the cabin, But mom and dad are supposed to cover the MRI, cause she can’t afford it. Maybe pay the MRI and skip the vacation weekend. Needs v wants, like you said.
My dad has had both knees replaced, a hip replacement, and back surgery. No debt. The only difference is if he were in Canada or the UK he would be still in crippling pain waiting on his hip replacement and probably one of the knees.