You know, if there was some deep state effort to inflate the number of covid-19 deaths I have to say, they are failing miserably, since the number of reported deaths is still pretty insignificant.
I think people are making way too much out of this. It could be a simple as, it's not always easy to determine an exact cause of death, and sometimes we have to guess.
The amount of people who were probably going to die without Chinavirus but then got it and died while having it is probably so small it is statistically insignificant.
The entire idea that counting anyone who dies with Chinavirus as a Chinavirus death is somehow inflating numbers on a large scale is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.
If you had lung cancer and could barely breathe as it is, then got Chinavirus and died: did you die of lung cancer or Chinavirus?
Saying that anyone died from Coronavirus, without actually having been tested, is what's dishonest. I think the assumed part is what people are outraged about.
What are the numbers of assumed vs confirmed?
Except there's a baseline number of people that are dying of pneumonia and flu always. If those are being rolled into virus deaths then that is statistically relevant.
I agree, but how can you determine if someone was going to die anyway? Is there a definite way to say that had the person not gotten Chinavirus, they still would have died? How do you properly account for that?
The timing of the deaths, and the expense of caring for someone with COVID-19, are both significant. A significant number of the elderly people who have died, would have died within the next month or two anyway, so the COVID-19 just slightly accelerated their deaths. But due to the extreme contagiousness of this virus, and the number of relatively healthy people that it kills, a lot of additional resources go into caring for the slightly accelerated deaths, than would have been spent on those same people if they had died a few weeks or months later of a common flu or pneumonia or just of extreme old age deterioration.
Agree. We also can't afford to expend the resources on determining a definite cause of death, especially in cases where COVID-19 was part of the picture, since the people and facilities treating severely ill COVID-19 patients are stretched very, very thin right now. In most cases where someone died with COVID-19, it was a contributing factor to their death, and in almost all cases is accelerated their death, even if they would have been dead in a week or a month anyway.
If the question is "why did Patient X die today?", the answer for almost all patients with COVID-19 is truthfully COVID-19. It's not like we normally expend the resources to precisely determine the various causes of death in people with multiple serious medical problems.
12,000 deaths in the US is not significant considering the average flu season has about 50,000 deaths.
I'm not saying that it won't grow to be significant, but so far it's not.
The whole thing needs to be put into perspective. People die every day in far greater numbers than we are talking about here and we don't change our way of life to prevent it. We come up with reasonable precautions to help keep people safe and then we get on with life. That's what we should be doing with this, but unfortunately fear and panic have taken over.
I don't understand people who don't realize that you can't wait until the system is overwhelmed to take actions to prevent the system from being overwhelmed. They reacted early and current numbers reflect the actions taken (that so many complain about) well before now. The projections may have been wrong, but they can't be right since we deviated from the parameters by taking aggressive mitigation measures.
That's all conjecture. It might be right but we really don't know. All we know for sure are what the actual numbers are, which don't come anywhere close to justifying the damage we have done to many millions of lives.
Accounting for differences in testing practices -- who gets tested, and at what points in the pandemic progress various changes in testing practices were implemented -- could easily wipe out the difference in those rates, or even reverse them.
I don't think so. It's like saying someone who was having severe respiratory issues decided to start smoking nine packs a day and dies two weeks later died from smoking.
Why would they test for covid if someone has no symptoms of covid? If someone had symptoms of covid at the time of their death, it likely contributed to their deaths in the ICU. Within reason barring obvious other causes.
New York's Coronavirus Death Toll is Almost Certainly Far Higher Than Reported. As of Monday afternoon, the official death toll in New York was 2,378. But that only includes people who tested positive for the virus. It doesn't include those who aren't tested and die of COVID-19 symptoms. And the city's medical examiner doesn't test dead bodies for the virus. There's no malice in the undercount, no attempt to deceive. But it points to the urgent need for universal testing for the virus.
This would contradict what the birx guy is saying in the op. In which people dying of unidentified disease which could possibly be coronavirus then the death is being counted as caused by coronavirus when they dont really know.
Like one of these must be false pjmedia or dr birx.
This issue is making me feel like a crazy person. I keep telling everyone I know that they are hijacking normal deaths, but I cant get anyone to respond appropriately. It is a big deal!
Very few people die of a single cause. One thing just pushes them past the edge. In this case, it's COVID-19. With diabetics, it's usually renal failure.
The CDC guidelines instructed physicans to declare a Covid death when the deceased had tested positive or ASSUMED to have died from covid.
These death rate statistics should not be trusted
Edit: 👉Source
That's a much better explanation than the one I used. Thanks pede.
Thank you
Where the $&#@* is PENCE?
Liberal approach... hahaha
Kobe Bryant died of coronavirus
He died of covid before it went mainstream.. RIP
You know, if there was some deep state effort to inflate the number of covid-19 deaths I have to say, they are failing miserably, since the number of reported deaths is still pretty insignificant.
I think people are making way too much out of this. It could be a simple as, it's not always easy to determine an exact cause of death, and sometimes we have to guess.
The amount of people who were probably going to die without Chinavirus but then got it and died while having it is probably so small it is statistically insignificant.
The entire idea that counting anyone who dies with Chinavirus as a Chinavirus death is somehow inflating numbers on a large scale is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.
If you had lung cancer and could barely breathe as it is, then got Chinavirus and died: did you die of lung cancer or Chinavirus?
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Saying that anyone died from Coronavirus, without actually having been tested, is what's dishonest. I think the assumed part is what people are outraged about. What are the numbers of assumed vs confirmed?
I agree.
Except there's a baseline number of people that are dying of pneumonia and flu always. If those are being rolled into virus deaths then that is statistically relevant.
I agree, but how can you determine if someone was going to die anyway? Is there a definite way to say that had the person not gotten Chinavirus, they still would have died? How do you properly account for that?
The timing of the deaths, and the expense of caring for someone with COVID-19, are both significant. A significant number of the elderly people who have died, would have died within the next month or two anyway, so the COVID-19 just slightly accelerated their deaths. But due to the extreme contagiousness of this virus, and the number of relatively healthy people that it kills, a lot of additional resources go into caring for the slightly accelerated deaths, than would have been spent on those same people if they had died a few weeks or months later of a common flu or pneumonia or just of extreme old age deterioration.
IIRC, most cancer deaths are recorded as something else, eg: complications from pneumonia. Same with AIDS.
I agree with you. I don't think it's changing the numbers in a meaningful way.
Agree. We also can't afford to expend the resources on determining a definite cause of death, especially in cases where COVID-19 was part of the picture, since the people and facilities treating severely ill COVID-19 patients are stretched very, very thin right now. In most cases where someone died with COVID-19, it was a contributing factor to their death, and in almost all cases is accelerated their death, even if they would have been dead in a week or a month anyway.
If the question is "why did Patient X die today?", the answer for almost all patients with COVID-19 is truthfully COVID-19. It's not like we normally expend the resources to precisely determine the various causes of death in people with multiple serious medical problems.
Case mortality rate globally is 5.7% and growing.
A few weeks ago people were shitting on the 3.4% number from Italy.
Spain is now over 10%.
Number of deaths is not insignificant.
Like Trump and Pence said yesterday, until there is a vaccine the only thing that stops it is social distancing.
12,000 deaths in the US is not significant considering the average flu season has about 50,000 deaths.
I'm not saying that it won't grow to be significant, but so far it's not.
The whole thing needs to be put into perspective. People die every day in far greater numbers than we are talking about here and we don't change our way of life to prevent it. We come up with reasonable precautions to help keep people safe and then we get on with life. That's what we should be doing with this, but unfortunately fear and panic have taken over.
I don't understand people who don't realize that you can't wait until the system is overwhelmed to take actions to prevent the system from being overwhelmed. They reacted early and current numbers reflect the actions taken (that so many complain about) well before now. The projections may have been wrong, but they can't be right since we deviated from the parameters by taking aggressive mitigation measures.
That's all conjecture. It might be right but we really don't know. All we know for sure are what the actual numbers are, which don't come anywhere close to justifying the damage we have done to many millions of lives.
How many peoples lives are worth it since this is not? 1 Million? 10 Million? 100 Million? Just you?
Or a medical therapy that reduces death rates significantly. Funny thing socialist medicine in Europe does not seem to be very healthy.
10% death rate vs 3.2 % in America
It might be reasonable to half both those numbers based on the number of asymptomatic folks that haven't been tested.
Accounting for differences in testing practices -- who gets tested, and at what points in the pandemic progress various changes in testing practices were implemented -- could easily wipe out the difference in those rates, or even reverse them.
That is similar to saying anyone who ever smoked one cigarette dies from smoking aint it.
I don't think so. It's like saying someone who was having severe respiratory issues decided to start smoking nine packs a day and dies two weeks later died from smoking.
same difference
It's the exact opposite.
Somebody who smokes every day and gets cancer, then gets hit by a car, still died of getting hit by the car.
Why would they test for covid if someone has no symptoms of covid? If someone had symptoms of covid at the time of their death, it likely contributed to their deaths in the ICU. Within reason barring obvious other causes.
The tests take 48-72 hours to come back. You can't segregate people on the front end just based on this test.
Do you know of a specific hospital with these new 15 minute Abbot machines that are using them to segregate their patients at the door?
I guess you could put it both ways I don't mind smoking or smokers so I am incline to differentiate it in another way I suppose.
Gotta pump those numbers up, can’t scare everyone into giving up their freedoms and implement socialized healthcare if the death rate is too low
Okay, did the Trump administration ask either of these Bill Gates hacks ANY questions before bringing them onto the COVID response task force?
These people are recommending - with a straight face - that the country remain in TOTAL LOCKDOWN until NEXT FALL.
I’m starting to believe that both need to be told “You’re fired!”
I can't believe they were even brought on.
WHAT. THE. FUCK. This is huge beyond belief. All the models and actions we’ve taken because of them are based on the death rate.
If the death toll is going to be used to calculate the bill that's going to fall on Pooh Bear's doorstep, I'm ok with that.
On the upside; no one is dying of cancer, heart attack, stroke,diabetes or suicide until further notice
because they want this to beat barak hussein's death toll on swine flu
Curious, do hospitals receive federal money for Covid 19 deaths? Sources?
What numbers to be high enough so they don’t look stupid. Well they do. Two fucking liberals. Figures
https://pjmedia.com/trending/new-yorks-coronavirus-death-toll-almost-certainly-far-higher-than-reported/
This would contradict what the birx guy is saying in the op. In which people dying of unidentified disease which could possibly be coronavirus then the death is being counted as caused by coronavirus when they dont really know.
Like one of these must be false pjmedia or dr birx.
This issue is making me feel like a crazy person. I keep telling everyone I know that they are hijacking normal deaths, but I cant get anyone to respond appropriately. It is a big deal!
Pence needs to get control of this.
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Very few people die of a single cause. One thing just pushes them past the edge. In this case, it's COVID-19. With diabetics, it's usually renal failure.