You realize that the point of ventilators is to deliver oxygen right? Rona causes ARDS which essentially fills the tiny sacks in your lungs with junk and decreases the surface area to absorb oxygen. Not all to much to do for that
Your lack of understanding masquerading as condescension is staggering.
You realize that the point of ventilators is to deliver oxygen right?
The point of ventilators is to deliver a pressurized gas. In most cases that gas is actually just room air because your alveoli are fine, they're just obstructed, as you say. They can be modified to deliver pressurized oxygen instead of just room air. This is important because:
Rona causes ARDS
Yes.
which essentially fills the tiny sacks in your lungs with junk
No. That is only one of many possible reasons for ARDS. In the case of corona, that does not happen. Corona causes ARDS through low oxygenation due to hemoglobin destruction. Your lungs don't have gunk in them. It's your blood that doesn't have what it needs to carry oxygen. So pressurized ventilators pushing room air didn't help at all.
On top of that, hemoglobin breakdown leads to free iron in your blood, which damages the alveoli that are already delicate as hell. When they are damaged, a pressurized ventilator can cause them to rupture, which is why ventilators are actually doing more harm than good and you have such high death rates with ventilated patients. The ventilators are making the problem worse.
However, low pressure ventilators that are modified to push oxygen at low pressure rather than room air at high pressure work very well, especially combined with blood transfusions.
Or you could just use anti-malarial medication early coughhydroxychloroquinecough and prevent the hemoglobin breakdown in the first place.
Corona causes ARDS through low oxygenation due to hemoglobin destruction.
On top of that, hemoglobin breakdown leads to free iron in your blood, which damages the alveoli that are already delicate as hell.
AFAIK there isn't any clinical evidence for this and the paper that made this claim was based on protein simulation and modeling techniques. This was not based on clinical evidence:
The results showed the ORF8 and surface glycoprotein could bind to the porphyrin, respectively.
(Emphasis mine.)
The other side of the coin is what damages the alveoli is that SARS-CoV-2 attacks the type II pneumocytes then inflammatory cytokines precipitate fluid entering the lung tissue.
Old news. The virus has a completely different effect on the lungs than the classic pneumonia.
At first, the lungs are +- alright if somewhat damaged by Covid, but people are still hypoxic. The latest news from post-mortems in Germany and Switzerland is that the micro-circulation is all fucked in the alveoles, meaning that the oxygen is getting into the lungs, but isn't getting into the blood and you need to improve that instead of pumping in air that can't go into the blood anyway.
Russia is testing breathing really hot helium to try and unfuck the circulation. Others are trying NO gas. Other still are trying hyperbaric chambers.
We don't know if it works yet, but we do know that the ventilators don't really work in this first stage of the disease when your lung tissue isn't too far gone yet but the blood oxygen level is already really low.
Fyi, This is grossly oversimplifying things. Ventilators absolutely work to treat hypoxia, which is why they were picked in the first place. There are many causes of hypoxia though, and traditional ARDS strategy was the wrong choice for this disease process that still isn't fully understood. There are characteristic lab abnormalities that happen and major concerns of DIC. Some initially claimed it was a hemoglobin binding issue, but that fails to explain low PaO2/FiO2 ratios - since PaO2 is the dissolved O2 in plasma and doesn't involve hemoglobin as a factor. There is clearly a perfusion related V/Q abnormality
Hypoxemia and hypoxia are not the same, but one is usually the cause of the other. Ventilators treat hypoxia by resolving hypoxemia. I didnt disregard what you said.
Yes they needed oxygen, not ventilators
"...And reading from doctors saying that the ventilators make it WORSE. They actually stress your lungs more when they are already sore/hurting"
You realize that the point of ventilators is to deliver oxygen right? Rona causes ARDS which essentially fills the tiny sacks in your lungs with junk and decreases the surface area to absorb oxygen. Not all to much to do for that
Your lack of understanding masquerading as condescension is staggering.
The point of ventilators is to deliver a pressurized gas. In most cases that gas is actually just room air because your alveoli are fine, they're just obstructed, as you say. They can be modified to deliver pressurized oxygen instead of just room air. This is important because:
Yes.
No. That is only one of many possible reasons for ARDS. In the case of corona, that does not happen. Corona causes ARDS through low oxygenation due to hemoglobin destruction. Your lungs don't have gunk in them. It's your blood that doesn't have what it needs to carry oxygen. So pressurized ventilators pushing room air didn't help at all.
On top of that, hemoglobin breakdown leads to free iron in your blood, which damages the alveoli that are already delicate as hell. When they are damaged, a pressurized ventilator can cause them to rupture, which is why ventilators are actually doing more harm than good and you have such high death rates with ventilated patients. The ventilators are making the problem worse.
However, low pressure ventilators that are modified to push oxygen at low pressure rather than room air at high pressure work very well, especially combined with blood transfusions.
Or you could just use anti-malarial medication early coughhydroxychloroquinecough and prevent the hemoglobin breakdown in the first place.
AFAIK there isn't any clinical evidence for this and the paper that made this claim was based on protein simulation and modeling techniques. This was not based on clinical evidence:
(Emphasis mine.)
The other side of the coin is what damages the alveoli is that SARS-CoV-2 attacks the type II pneumocytes then inflammatory cytokines precipitate fluid entering the lung tissue.
This guy gets it
Old news. The virus has a completely different effect on the lungs than the classic pneumonia.
At first, the lungs are +- alright if somewhat damaged by Covid, but people are still hypoxic. The latest news from post-mortems in Germany and Switzerland is that the micro-circulation is all fucked in the alveoles, meaning that the oxygen is getting into the lungs, but isn't getting into the blood and you need to improve that instead of pumping in air that can't go into the blood anyway.
Russia is testing breathing really hot helium to try and unfuck the circulation. Others are trying NO gas. Other still are trying hyperbaric chambers.
We don't know if it works yet, but we do know that the ventilators don't really work in this first stage of the disease when your lung tissue isn't too far gone yet but the blood oxygen level is already really low.
Ventilators totally work for hypoxia. Why would you want iron ?
Fyi, This is grossly oversimplifying things. Ventilators absolutely work to treat hypoxia, which is why they were picked in the first place. There are many causes of hypoxia though, and traditional ARDS strategy was the wrong choice for this disease process that still isn't fully understood. There are characteristic lab abnormalities that happen and major concerns of DIC. Some initially claimed it was a hemoglobin binding issue, but that fails to explain low PaO2/FiO2 ratios - since PaO2 is the dissolved O2 in plasma and doesn't involve hemoglobin as a factor. There is clearly a perfusion related V/Q abnormality
Hypoxemia and hypoxia are not the same, but one is usually the cause of the other. Ventilators treat hypoxia by resolving hypoxemia. I didnt disregard what you said.