point of note - the mortality rate is slightly under .2% and that's only because of the heavily-weighted over 80yr old numbers.
The common seasonal flu has a mortality rate around .18 or so.
I just checked mortality rates last night and in the US it has climbed to 6%, at least as numbers are reported on worldometers.info
SD is .5% I bet you can tell me why. What are they doing differently there? Their results are not as good as Dr Z's, they're "only" 12 x better than the National average. They probably aren't all consistently following Dr Z's protocol like Brazil has done, to reduce their IFR by 95%. Still ...
The thing is that those numbers are misleading. They only include known tested positives AND the death rate includes some untested and some who had comorbidities that may have actually killed them, skewing it higher. So we have to include those who have it and haven’t been tested (hopefully to be found in other studies- they already imply its 30-50x higher).
Apples to oranges. The numbers I cited are good for comparative purposes, which is how I'm using them. That's perfectly valid. Give sick people medicine!
We can't speculate with numbers that haven't been tested. They're talking about doing random Nationwide antibody testing; we'll see if that produces anything usable for the purpose you're talking about. So far we don't have anything like that. One nurse in Chicago, a small area in LA and NYC, where else? These may prove to be the case in dense cities, that'd be great. It will probably prove to have no bearing on the vast portion of our Country that has 0-10 cases per County. Trying to turn the data they come up with into useful regions with boundaries guiding us into useful decisions will be an art rather than a science.
I seriously doubt it will ever tell us anything more useful than what was obvious before April 1: open up all Counties on April 1 that have 0-10 infected people, along with everyone recovered, virus-free and immune. Gather data about the second wave, and use that to guide opening our suburbs, 11 - X cases per County. That we didn't do this is irresponsible. We could've focused excess personnel and equipment on key areas, and had all our suburbs open by now. Armed with all that data we could be opening smaller cities very soon, in completely responsible fashion. Our largest cities will be the hardest, and this is where the antibody testing has been done so far.
It's always funny how they don't get that relevance. Like if I had a room with 10 people in it, and 9 die, you'd say it's an unsafe room to be in. But if you have a room with 500million people and 9 die, it doesn't sound like a bad place to be.
The thing that bothers me most, my mom is one of those feels people and the news exploits this so bad playing sob stories. Last week I tried to balance my sources a little bit so I put on CNN, Anderson Cooper was on and he had on a woman (Remotely) whose husband died from coronavirus. They read his last words on air and cried together. My reaction was “this isn’t the news, this is Oprah”. Then I looked up the guy, and he was on Dialysis before he got coronavirus.
Interesting. I kept seeing that story and clips of her and Anderson crying, they never mentioned the dialysis. Also, the guy looked very heavy. I’ve heard a high BMI can be an issue.
There have been a few people in mine and a neighboring state that died under 40. Was very intrigued so I looked them up, two had pictures in the article, found the third on Facebook. All VERY heavy, not just “might be classified as overweight”
It didn’t mention anything else about their health. I know it was a tiny scale but I found that to be an interesting correlation.
The problem is the news uses numbers ONLY in a way that provokes fear. They don't say "they are expecting 30,000-40,000 deaths, which is typical for every annual flu season".
They'll say "40,000 left dead as the Coronavirus continues its reign of death all across the country".
Then they'll tell you about some 28 year old who dies of WuFlu. But they don't tell you he had leukemia or HIV or cystic fibrosis.
Everything in the media about this normal everyday flu is framed to cause fear and panic (also known as terrorism).
Great post except for your last line: please don't promote the notion that this is "normal everyday flu." It's not. It has a far higher R0, and it started as being able to attach to human lungs much better. It has mutated, and probably continues to. Most mutations are harmful to the organism mutating, and other evolutionary pressures would also make this virus less lethal as it mutates.
I doubt anyone knows what we're dealing with at this point. Fortunately it's a lot less problematic than we thought at first. That's a very good thing. This is still not "normal everyday flu." Too bad they won't let us have the medicine proven to be most effective, and more effective than the most effective vaccine ever made, for anything. (Polio vaccine takes TWO applications to achieve 90% effectiveness, Trump pills reduce death rate by 97.4% in one course of treatment)
Honestly, this is the biggest psyop we've ever seen. And it's really not that hard to see through it.
I've lost hope for this country ever turning the corner. We can all return to our normal lives when the rulers allow it. But never forget that we are being allowed to.
It can only get worse. Not better. We may have the illusion that it's better, but it won't be.
You're spreading doom porn. Snap out of it! This is how We the People fix this: The time for peaceful protest is long past, VA proved that. Time to start removing Governors from Office physically, all on the same day. See them stand trial for mass murder. (With exceptions for those few that aren't guilty) Citizen's arrest is legal if we're stopping a felony in progress. The only legitimacy any government ever had on this continent is the consent of the governed. We cannot consent to THIS! Due process allows us to charge them with their every act of tyranny, as well as file civil suits that have them die in prison as paupers. Send a clear message as to who the power is in the Country. It's always been We the People. It's absolutely essential to send that message loud and clear to any future would-be tyrants. Now we know it won't last 245 years, but it will last more than 20.
It's again the law of opposites from the left at work. The lefties who claim to have a deep love for and understanding of science are the very people who dont even do basic math or logic.
Their "deep love" has no connection to being able to actually do anything. And understanding? I see no indication that they even value it. Who has told them this is important?
Yea, that is something that really pisses me off about all this. They are claiming it is so horrible, and "millions will die" and all that, and even their FAKE numbers aren't looking as bad as they keep screaming about. Even when they add up basically any other deaths they can get away with to the virus death count, it STILL doesn't add up to anything serious enough to cause all this mass hysteria with the lockdowns and shit.
And when you learn they are basically adding everything they possibly can to pad the numbers, and still not getting the fatality % they want, you realize the ACTUAL numbers are probably less than 0.5% deaths and they just want to trample on people's rights and gain that little bit more control.
It always amazes me that people STILL don't understand once you give up rights, even under the guise of it being "temporary", you will NEVER get those rights back. They just keep chipping away little by little, and people always think "well that doesn't seem so bad, and it is only temporary" until it is too late to turn back. You give up your right to do X thing "temporarily" and instead of getting it back later, another "temporary" thing comes up.
I keep hearing about the "total # of cases". I actually had to tell someone that countries with much higher populations will have a much higher number of cases.
Peak Clown World, folks. And if I were Bill Gates or George Soros or a Rothschild or whatever boogie man you want, I'd be loving what I'm seeing from the American population.
The only silver lining is that we don't have Hillery right now. Can you imagine? But Trump is temporary.
We know numbers of deaths are fake. People keep saying "NY" does this; we've seen Drs all over the Country tell us they've seen pressure to falsify death certificates. I've been watching number of people recovered in the US closely, and those are over reported by an even wider margin, at least on worldometers.info. That number is directly refuted by their own data per US State.
So 2 out of 3 key metrics are deliberately wrong, and we're going to believe them on the third? Number of total cases is probably also pure bs.
They're not lying to us because they have our best interests at heart.
Yep. There is no reason we aren't completely open right now. The ramifications of this shutdown are so detrimental. They are far worse than most Americans realize. The unintended consequences are HUGE.
This was supposed to be about "flattening the curve" not staying home indefinitely. Students need to be back on campus now. All students K-12 need to be back at class. This BS won't end until they start laying off teachers and school staff. Government workers, too.
Why is it when government shuts down for two weeks it is devastating? News story after news story about families needing to get back to work. But now the private sector can be closed indefinitely for months? I notice in MN they aren't opening clothing stores (no sales tax on clothing) but they can open tons of other stores. Why can I go in a liquor store and buy a bottle of wine, but I can't go in a hockey store and buy some pucks? Now, I know, I know...alcohol is an issue and if we close liquor stores people have withdrawel. I get it. That's not my point. I think all stores should be open. Not just the highly taxed liquor stores. Where would I be more likely to get Covid? A Walmart with tons of people or Total Hockey with 2 employees and 3 customers? Hmmm...these arbitrary restrictions are absolutely wrong and people need to start filing lawsuits.
Pretty close to the number I came up with if you're looking at total dead vs total population, but that's a largely irrelevant metric. Two different directions give you something more meaningful:
total US deaths in a similar time period, but years apart. Last I knew our total deaths were down by more than total deaths due to CCPvirus. So we should use the left's talking point that "all deaths are Trump's fault," and then accurately state that (by that logic) he's creating more than 20,000 new lives.
This is a sketchy metric right now for a couple reasons: nobody's doing anything and lots more will die, at least from health issues that are NOT CCPvirus because they've been turned away or are deliberately not getting medical care out of fear of catching de plague. We're also going to see a second wave no mattter what we do, and Trump pills would prevent that from turning into a lot more dead. Or hospitalized. Or needing a ventilator.
So all the numbers we have would be not very indicative of what's really going on, even if we were being told the truth. But we know we're being lied to.
Another metric that's more meaningful than dead vs total population is dead vs how many have been exposed to CCPvirus. We don't have that info. We don't have any idea how many caught it. In some small regions you've seen antibody testing show there are somewhere between 30 and 80 x more infected people than previously thought. From MN west to the east side of the coastal mountains on the left coast those numbers probably have no bearing. (And this is probably also true of at least the rural half of WI and IL that still has 10 or fewer cases per County)
All we have is total "confirmed cases," and comparing that to total dead. This is our most meaningful metric. We know this virus is highly contagious, so being able to estimate how many will die per how many catch it is significant. That number (IFR) was 6% for the US last night, using the numbers provided by worldometers.info. SD has .5%. You'd think Governors would be looking at that stark difference and wanting to duplicate whatever SD is doing differently.
They are just trying to pump their points. Just like they say America has the most positive cases! Oh no! But what they leave out is that we are testing the most people and have a much larger population than many of these other places,
The problem when in dialogue with lefty shitweasels is that you have to be cumbersomely specific otherwise they wiggle through any linguistic holes that they can.
Per capita, don’t leave that out they’ll call you out on the numbers
Reasonable person: We did well considering mortality rates were expected to be around 5%.
The left: Less people died in Iceland.
Also the left: travel bans are racist, not eating Chinese food is racist, not going to Chinatown for lunar new year is racist.
Well, fuck most foreigners and their new year, the food can stay.
point of note - the mortality rate is slightly under .2% and that's only because of the heavily-weighted over 80yr old numbers. The common seasonal flu has a mortality rate around .18 or so.
Considering it is less than .03% to .1%, it's just a fucking common cold.
I just checked mortality rates last night and in the US it has climbed to 6%, at least as numbers are reported on worldometers.info
SD is .5% I bet you can tell me why. What are they doing differently there? Their results are not as good as Dr Z's, they're "only" 12 x better than the National average. They probably aren't all consistently following Dr Z's protocol like Brazil has done, to reduce their IFR by 95%. Still ...
The thing is that those numbers are misleading. They only include known tested positives AND the death rate includes some untested and some who had comorbidities that may have actually killed them, skewing it higher. So we have to include those who have it and haven’t been tested (hopefully to be found in other studies- they already imply its 30-50x higher).
Apples to oranges. The numbers I cited are good for comparative purposes, which is how I'm using them. That's perfectly valid. Give sick people medicine!
We can't speculate with numbers that haven't been tested. They're talking about doing random Nationwide antibody testing; we'll see if that produces anything usable for the purpose you're talking about. So far we don't have anything like that. One nurse in Chicago, a small area in LA and NYC, where else? These may prove to be the case in dense cities, that'd be great. It will probably prove to have no bearing on the vast portion of our Country that has 0-10 cases per County. Trying to turn the data they come up with into useful regions with boundaries guiding us into useful decisions will be an art rather than a science.
I seriously doubt it will ever tell us anything more useful than what was obvious before April 1: open up all Counties on April 1 that have 0-10 infected people, along with everyone recovered, virus-free and immune. Gather data about the second wave, and use that to guide opening our suburbs, 11 - X cases per County. That we didn't do this is irresponsible. We could've focused excess personnel and equipment on key areas, and had all our suburbs open by now. Armed with all that data we could be opening smaller cities very soon, in completely responsible fashion. Our largest cities will be the hardest, and this is where the antibody testing has been done so far.
It's always funny how they don't get that relevance. Like if I had a room with 10 people in it, and 9 die, you'd say it's an unsafe room to be in. But if you have a room with 500million people and 9 die, it doesn't sound like a bad place to be.
Leftist think math is racist so it shouldn't be a surprise. Understanding they don't understand math explains a lot as to why they favor communism.
And why they insist so much on being recognized for their deep appreciation of science.
Common core
The thing that bothers me most, my mom is one of those feels people and the news exploits this so bad playing sob stories. Last week I tried to balance my sources a little bit so I put on CNN, Anderson Cooper was on and he had on a woman (Remotely) whose husband died from coronavirus. They read his last words on air and cried together. My reaction was “this isn’t the news, this is Oprah”. Then I looked up the guy, and he was on Dialysis before he got coronavirus.
Interesting. I kept seeing that story and clips of her and Anderson crying, they never mentioned the dialysis. Also, the guy looked very heavy. I’ve heard a high BMI can be an issue.
You’re right. Anderson is Oprah.
There have been a few people in mine and a neighboring state that died under 40. Was very intrigued so I looked them up, two had pictures in the article, found the third on Facebook. All VERY heavy, not just “might be classified as overweight” It didn’t mention anything else about their health. I know it was a tiny scale but I found that to be an interesting correlation.
AC seems way too robotic to be doing sob stories.
Doesn’t strike me as the compassionate type
But then again, CNN
high BMI is always an issue, wuflu or no
and yes, fuck CNN
The problem is the news uses numbers ONLY in a way that provokes fear. They don't say "they are expecting 30,000-40,000 deaths, which is typical for every annual flu season".
They'll say "40,000 left dead as the Coronavirus continues its reign of death all across the country".
Then they'll tell you about some 28 year old who dies of WuFlu. But they don't tell you he had leukemia or HIV or cystic fibrosis.
Everything in the media about this normal everyday flu is framed to cause fear and panic (also known as terrorism).
Great post except for your last line: please don't promote the notion that this is "normal everyday flu." It's not. It has a far higher R0, and it started as being able to attach to human lungs much better. It has mutated, and probably continues to. Most mutations are harmful to the organism mutating, and other evolutionary pressures would also make this virus less lethal as it mutates.
I doubt anyone knows what we're dealing with at this point. Fortunately it's a lot less problematic than we thought at first. That's a very good thing. This is still not "normal everyday flu." Too bad they won't let us have the medicine proven to be most effective, and more effective than the most effective vaccine ever made, for anything. (Polio vaccine takes TWO applications to achieve 90% effectiveness, Trump pills reduce death rate by 97.4% in one course of treatment)
Honestly, this is the biggest psyop we've ever seen. And it's really not that hard to see through it.
I've lost hope for this country ever turning the corner. We can all return to our normal lives when the rulers allow it. But never forget that we are being allowed to.
It can only get worse. Not better. We may have the illusion that it's better, but it won't be.
You're spreading doom porn. Snap out of it! This is how We the People fix this: The time for peaceful protest is long past, VA proved that. Time to start removing Governors from Office physically, all on the same day. See them stand trial for mass murder. (With exceptions for those few that aren't guilty) Citizen's arrest is legal if we're stopping a felony in progress. The only legitimacy any government ever had on this continent is the consent of the governed. We cannot consent to THIS! Due process allows us to charge them with their every act of tyranny, as well as file civil suits that have them die in prison as paupers. Send a clear message as to who the power is in the Country. It's always been We the People. It's absolutely essential to send that message loud and clear to any future would-be tyrants. Now we know it won't last 245 years, but it will last more than 20.
A room with 500 million people sounds like a horrible place to be, it would smell like hoagies and pee probably.
So you're saying it would smell better than a feminist rally.
Sounds like the Minnesota State Fair they rave about around here.
It's how big the 2023 Trump rallies are going to be.
Not after 350 million per day get killed with AR-14s
It's again the law of opposites from the left at work. The lefties who claim to have a deep love for and understanding of science are the very people who dont even do basic math or logic.
I've observed the same.
Their "deep love" has no connection to being able to actually do anything. And understanding? I see no indication that they even value it. Who has told them this is important?
Reality is a fluid thing in the minds of Leftists.
Deaths per 1M Pop (from worldometer site)
USA: 179
Spain: 519
Italy: 453
France: 362
UK: 319
Germany: 75
Belgium: 647
Netherlands: 275
Sweeden: 244
And this includes all of the fake deaths being reported in places like New York.
Yea, that is something that really pisses me off about all this. They are claiming it is so horrible, and "millions will die" and all that, and even their FAKE numbers aren't looking as bad as they keep screaming about. Even when they add up basically any other deaths they can get away with to the virus death count, it STILL doesn't add up to anything serious enough to cause all this mass hysteria with the lockdowns and shit.
And when you learn they are basically adding everything they possibly can to pad the numbers, and still not getting the fatality % they want, you realize the ACTUAL numbers are probably less than 0.5% deaths and they just want to trample on people's rights and gain that little bit more control.
It always amazes me that people STILL don't understand once you give up rights, even under the guise of it being "temporary", you will NEVER get those rights back. They just keep chipping away little by little, and people always think "well that doesn't seem so bad, and it is only temporary" until it is too late to turn back. You give up your right to do X thing "temporarily" and instead of getting it back later, another "temporary" thing comes up.
I keep hearing about the "total # of cases". I actually had to tell someone that countries with much higher populations will have a much higher number of cases.
Peak Clown World, folks. And if I were Bill Gates or George Soros or a Rothschild or whatever boogie man you want, I'd be loving what I'm seeing from the American population.
The only silver lining is that we don't have Hillery right now. Can you imagine? But Trump is temporary.
I don't understand why some people don't understand that. Actually I do, leftism, and in turn, TDS, is very harmful to a persons intelligence.
We know numbers of deaths are fake. People keep saying "NY" does this; we've seen Drs all over the Country tell us they've seen pressure to falsify death certificates. I've been watching number of people recovered in the US closely, and those are over reported by an even wider margin, at least on worldometers.info. That number is directly refuted by their own data per US State.
So 2 out of 3 key metrics are deliberately wrong, and we're going to believe them on the third? Number of total cases is probably also pure bs.
They're not lying to us because they have our best interests at heart.
I’m no math person, so someone help me out, but what is that? 0.017 percent?
We shutdown the economy and have 26 million unemployed people for this?
Anything to damage the economy Trump built.
Yep. There is no reason we aren't completely open right now. The ramifications of this shutdown are so detrimental. They are far worse than most Americans realize. The unintended consequences are HUGE.
This was supposed to be about "flattening the curve" not staying home indefinitely. Students need to be back on campus now. All students K-12 need to be back at class. This BS won't end until they start laying off teachers and school staff. Government workers, too.
Why is it when government shuts down for two weeks it is devastating? News story after news story about families needing to get back to work. But now the private sector can be closed indefinitely for months? I notice in MN they aren't opening clothing stores (no sales tax on clothing) but they can open tons of other stores. Why can I go in a liquor store and buy a bottle of wine, but I can't go in a hockey store and buy some pucks? Now, I know, I know...alcohol is an issue and if we close liquor stores people have withdrawel. I get it. That's not my point. I think all stores should be open. Not just the highly taxed liquor stores. Where would I be more likely to get Covid? A Walmart with tons of people or Total Hockey with 2 employees and 3 customers? Hmmm...these arbitrary restrictions are absolutely wrong and people need to start filing lawsuits.
Literally the flu.
If you haven't watched the two California ER docs posted on TD, I'd recommend it. Simple logic says this is mass hysteria.
I was lucky enough to watch it before YouTube removed it like the cucks they are at YouTube.
Pretty close to the number I came up with if you're looking at total dead vs total population, but that's a largely irrelevant metric. Two different directions give you something more meaningful:
This is a sketchy metric right now for a couple reasons: nobody's doing anything and lots more will die, at least from health issues that are NOT CCPvirus because they've been turned away or are deliberately not getting medical care out of fear of catching de plague. We're also going to see a second wave no mattter what we do, and Trump pills would prevent that from turning into a lot more dead. Or hospitalized. Or needing a ventilator.
So all the numbers we have would be not very indicative of what's really going on, even if we were being told the truth. But we know we're being lied to.
All we have is total "confirmed cases," and comparing that to total dead. This is our most meaningful metric. We know this virus is highly contagious, so being able to estimate how many will die per how many catch it is significant. That number (IFR) was 6% for the US last night, using the numbers provided by worldometers.info. SD has .5%. You'd think Governors would be looking at that stark difference and wanting to duplicate whatever SD is doing differently.
Very interesting! I appreciate this insight. Thank you!
Yep, i don't know if they aren't smart enough to realize these are smaller countries, or just intentionally ignorant to force their point
They are just trying to pump their points. Just like they say America has the most positive cases! Oh no! But what they leave out is that we are testing the most people and have a much larger population than many of these other places,
So I'm being pedantic here, but the word "rates" already implies per-capita.
The problem when in dialogue with lefty shitweasels is that you have to be cumbersomely specific otherwise they wiggle through any linguistic holes that they can.