This just happened and I had to share it; I also wouldn’t mind constructive criticism if I handled this poorly or what you guys would have done different. I’ll do my best to explain why certain things went the way they did.
I live in Florida, stand your ground state. Now, I’m driving casually, to my storage unit from a red light on a 45 mph road. Get up to about 40 and the car on my right is about a cars length ahead of me. All the sudden a huge lifted truck comes barreling thru about 60-7mph and cuts right in front of me damn near clipping my bumper. As I saw it happening, I gave him a lil baby honk on the horn like “I’m here. Don’t hit me please”. Didn’t make eye contact. Didn’t give him the bird. Generally didn’t care so long as he didn’t total my truck.
As soon as he heard my honk, he slams on the brakes. Not a brake check, a complete stop, so I merge right and try to continue around him. As I roll past, he throws a full water bottle and hits me in the face with it threw my window and I’m like wtf?!? And flick him off. He gets on my ass and tries to ram my truck all the way up to the next light, doing about 60mph trying to get away from him. My phone fell between the cracks of the seats and I couldn’t fish it out during the pursuit to call the cops. So I pull my pistol out of the glove box and come to a stop at the light. He’s out of his car at this point screaming bloody murder threatening me with “let’s go you fucking pussy! I’ll pull you out of that truck right now!” So I get out as he gets to the taillight of my truck and point my pistol at his chest and yell at him “GET BACK IN YOUR FUCKING CAR!” His attitude IMMEDIATELY changed as his hands went up and he retreated back to his car. I trained my gun on him as he leaned back into his car and pulls out his cell phone. I jump back in my truck and drive off and he follows me some more but because I had the “jump” start (no pun intended), I managed to pull a U-ey and get away from him.
I fear if I didn’t have my firearm on me today, I would be in the hospital over road rage for sure. God bless America and this beautiful day.
Edit; appointment with attorney tomorrow. I will keep you guys posted and respond to most of you with updates after meeting as well. I did speak with a firefighter buddy of mine here with connections to the police and he also works at our local gun range. Not saying he’s an expert or anything, but he’s my best friend here I got and I confided this with him and he said that, in that situation where you’re trapped, you absolutely did the best thing to deescalate. If I would have waited for him to get to the car, he’d be dead and I don’t know what he would have done if he got his hands on me. For everyone telling me I fucked up and are being dicks about it, it’s super easy to type that while you’re eating a bowl of Cheerios, I’d love your opinion as a madman chases you around the house that’s twice your size and threatening to rip you out of the window. Until that happens, your opinion is moot as far as I’m concerned. I’m sure I didn’t handle the situation perfectly, but no one is perfect and when you have less than a second to make a decision, and your physical safety is on the line, I’m really interested in how you would have handled it. Good day and I will update everyone who’s interested tomorrow. Thanks again for everyone’s constructive criticism and advice
Never get out of your car. This is seen as you moving to confront. If you truly feared for your life, you should have stayed in your vehicle.
This is good advice pede simply from a strategy but also legal point of view. By staying in your car you prevent the perp from potentially obtaining your firearm via a malfunction or miss etc., Also you have an exit and I don't care how well armed you are you need to be able to withdraw if things go badly you can use your car to get away. Always try to avoid a fight first... But we have the benefit of hindsight so I say you survived therefore you were successful because that's the goal right?
Yeah, particularly depending on which state you're in, OPs actions could be considered not covered by self defense
Even in a stand your ground state, getting out of the car doesnt look good.
Came here to say this. Puts you on record that your life was threatened by his road rage.
didn't have my phone, its dead now. I just got home, should I call?
Also, don't flip someone off if you're carrying.
I am SO polite and non-confrontational when I am carrying. And since I always carry....
Appointment with attorney tomorrow. Thank god I decided to take a shower before I made any decisions. I will keep you updated. Thanks for your advice and I honestly think your opinion is the best take. I HOPE the guy isn’t retarded enough to call the cops. It was at a traffic light. Cameras everywhere, witnesses everywhere. It wouldn’t take the cops more than an hour to figure out the guy was a lunatic.
So, what was the outcome in this road rage situation?
Nothing happened lol. I called an attorney and told him what happened. He said he’d call back if my name showed up on a warrant. Never heard back. Been 2 months and haven’t heard anything thank God.
Yep. He likely reported you for “brandishing.” It’s better to get your side in before the boys in blue show up at your door. He threatened your life with his reckless driving and you had good reason to fear great bodily harm. That is the justification you need for pulling your firearm. You did not fire because he immediately de-escalated (somewhat) once he saw you would defend your life.
Don’t know if you got the license plate but if not a description of the guy and vehicle would be enough.
ok once this damn phone hurries up and charges, I'm going to call them. thanks
Don't. Never talk to the police. You're going to volunteer that you pointed your gun at someone? No way. Just thank God you didn't have to shoot and then talk to them.
And what if the guy reports him for brandishing and there is no mitigating story? I dunno, I would call in this case.
Call a lawyer first. Anything you tell the cops can be used against you. Cops are never your friends or on your side.
Then you have them ask your lawyer.
Call your lawyer first, then the police
Always call first for any situation like this because bad guys will call the police and tell a different story to paint you as the criminal.
I called a lawyer first. I have an appointment tomorrow. I will do whatever he advises
I hope everything turns out well!
Thanks guys. I really appreciate everything. I don’t have too many people I trust to go to in real life, just my firefighter buddy (who also works at our local gun range. He said I’m fine and did the right thing, but obviously he’s not the police and he’s speaking as a friend) so I sought out internet advice. I think everything will be fine. The guy is a complete moron if he goes to the police and all they have to do is pull the traffic cams, pretty open and shut that I was trapped and he was angrily approaching and I did what I did, deescalated and as soon as the light turned green and the cars moved, I bolted. I didn’t want to shoot anyone and I’m glad I don’t have that on my conscious. Even if somehow I end up in jail over this, I can die knowing morally I did the right thing. As long as I’m ok with my Maker, I don’t give a fuck what mortal humans think of me.
yeah I took a shower while my phone was charging and that occurred to me.... why dont I just call an attorney instead of the police? that way hell be there to talk to me
Good call
Also if you have concealed carry insurance such as USCCA, give them a call.
two words: traffic cams. be very specific about where this happened.
my truck was blocked by cars at a red light.... there was nowhere to go and he was running up to my car threatening to murder me. what would you have done? rammed thru 3 lanes of cars?
Pull your gun from inside locked down car. More defensible. Also from 20 feet apart someone can disarm you, this has been well studied. You need to car to prevent that. Sorry for your trauma, glad it worked out ok
Again, always sounds so easy when you're not the one being threatened.
THANK YOU.
People don’t understand not everyone is in full physical health either. I was supposed to have shoulder surgery last month on my right shoulder but because of virus, it’s delayed. I have a SLAP tear and my shoulder dislocated if I move it too fast, it’s BAD. That’s my shooting arm and I can’t just stick my left arm out the windows and twist it around either. The ONLY way I would have been able to defend myself is standing up. And I was trapped. I raced away as fast as I could but he was faster and I can’t just run over cars at a red light. You have about 0.5 seconds to make a decision as a lunatic is screaming he’s going to kill you while quickly approaching your car. It’s so easy to munch on some Cheetos and think you would have done things differently. I’m not proud of this l, the situation or how it got handled, I’m sure in hindsight I could have handled things better, but half a second is the amount of time, while your heart is racing, to make a decision. That’s all you got.
Very true, OP did ask for advice for the future. Otherwise I would not have piped up. I am truly glad OP is ok. I cannot say I have never flipped anyone off under stress while driving, it did only happen once, but people who are provocable can be set off by anything and this idiot might have gone after OP regardless.
Always sounds so easy when you're not the one being threatened.
It's not easy, but is your responsibility when carrying a weapon.
To not use it? No. I’m alive today because of it. And honestly he’s alive today because of it. I did the right thing to save both of our lives. Quit it with your shit comments
What even is your point honestly?, to just be a dick like “upon further analysis of the 0.5 second situation your were put in, we’ve determined you did everything wrong because I am a genius and would have handled it perfectly every time no matter the variables.” Or are you secretly a liberal who wants more shitty gun laws so you can be like “oh well you should have got his consent and had him sign section 802(c) and fill out forms 6b and 8a-d before you pull your gun, make sure you record verbal consent before you pull the trigger". if i cant point my firearm at someone who assaulted me and was intent on killing me and verbal expressed his desire to do so, i feel bad for your gun class students, because theyd all be dead if they followed your bullshit advice.
Gun class, wtf are you carrying-on about?
FL pede here, IANAL but if anything you could be charged with brandishing a firearm. Definitely a sticky situation. But if you stick with the "I feared for my life" you may be ok. Especially if he was was threatening you. Keep us posted.
I am so glad I have female privilege, I am also a small female. I can't see a jury doubting me on that
I definitely understand. Appointment with attorney tomorrow. But he had assaulted me already and I think he rammed the side of my truck too if I’m not mistaken during the chase.... everything happened so fast. I’m telling you this wasn’t road rage, this guy was intent on murdering anyone that day. I’m wondering if he just lost his job or something
Keep the water bottle if you still have it and take a picture if it left any mark on your face, it might help support that you were in fear of further bodily harm from him.
I dont wanna shoot anyone.... I just wanted him to go the fuck away
Better call The Wolf
Were you boxed in?...the dude got out of his truck and was at your taillight....you have a gas pedal just leave if you can. I'm in florida with an eerily similar story except the guy was raging on someone else but turned on me when he saw that I was laughing at him (sitting in traffic at a light as well) but boxed in. Same situation guy comes strutting up telling me to get out of my car and fight him when I didnt take the bait he kept saying he's gonna snatch me out of my car, by now my wife has her camera out and is recording and the guy is at my rear window, I never broke eye contact, never moved an inch, just placed my edc buck knife on the dash where he could see it. His demeanor changed instantly....screamed "youre lucky Im with my family" and walked back to his car still raging...his wife and Im guessing 5yr oldish kid were pleading with him the entire time.
I'd hate to know what that creep's family have seen
I’m worried he like lost his job today or something and was going home to kill his wife or anyone who looked at him wrong. I hope this was a wake up call for him
I hope so too. Are you starting to feel a bit better? An event like that is pretty traumatic. You are smart to step back and analyse the whole thing in case you are ever in a similar situation.
Kind of. I work nights (by choice) so I had basically got home, spent about 3 hours cleaning and loading my truck with boxes to take to storage which shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes. I almost didn’t go cause I fell asleep listening to music when I sat down for a second, I wish I just fell asleep.... obviously I called my buddy and my mom and she talked me down cause I was shaking like crazy at my storage unit, I could barely talk. What’s insane is this is the SECOND time my life has been threatened. About 4 years ago, a roommate of mine got drunk and pulled his pistol on me and threatened to shoot me because I left his garage door clicker in my Jeep at the house I just moved too... (he was pissed I was moving out). I’ve never been so scared in my life and this was the closest I’ve ever come to feeling that again, and I grabbed my gun before it got to the point where he put his hands on me and I’m glad I had it. I honest to God don’t know what pissed him off besides the little beep. I even made a New Years resolution I’ve been sticking to about not even flicking people off anymore. I wasn’t even mad at him for driving like an ass, I’ve been there done that, I get it, but I’ve never chased someone down over a honk before.
Sorry, thanks for reading and listening and talking with me. I can’t stress how much I appreciate it right now. I did finally get some sleep and I’m at work now and no calls or visits from the police so I think I’m good.... but I’m still going to consult with the lawyer man tomorrow
Sounds like you are on track. Might be good to get into some self defense programs and gun training. I have been wanting to for years. The shooting camps look super fun.
Super boxed in. I managed to run about a miles or two from when he hit me with the water bottle before the next red light where cars where all lined up and stopped. That’s the ONLY reason I stopped is I couldn’t even turn right because that line was full. It was either do what I did, or hope my Tacoma can pull monster truck duty.... I’m telling you, all these comments saying I did the wrong thing don’t understand where I was. Imagine 4 rows of parked cars in front of you and a madman an inch from your back bumper out of his car screaming his going to kill me.... I can’t just point my gun out the window because I have a gimpy shoulder and it’ll dislocate (I’m supposed to have surgery but this virus has postponed that) the ONLY way to stop this man from dying was the deescalate before he got to my window. And I had to make that decision in about 0.5 seconds. I also was in my gym shorts and didn’t have my self defense knife on me or I definitely would have brandished that instead. I literally had nothing but my gun, even my cell phone was wedged (and dead apparently) in between the seats from the high speed chase.
I called my firefighter buddy who works at the gun shop and he said I’m fine, I did exactly the right thing as best anyone could do, without shooting him, in that situation. I have appointment with a lawyer tomorrow, I’ll keep you guys updated
I think they kinda frown on that in most jurisdictions
I like that. And then have his blood all over you and taste it. Reminds me of the good old mercenary times. Oh, the things we did and ate.
Self defense is a God given right.
Never break the seal unless you have to. That involves rolling down your window too. As soon as he escalated the issue, your windows should have gone up immediately. And ALWAYS lock your car doors as soon as it is shut. Not after buckling up or starting the car, the door shuts and you lock the door.
Jesus. Glad you and that idiot survived.
I'm not well versed in FL laws, but from where I sit, you did good, pede.
I’m not going to second guess you. You neutralized the threat and no one got hurt. All good. Practice your Mozambique drills next time you are at the range.
Thanks fam! I should practice keeping my phone off my gym shorts while driving too so it doesn’t fly off during pursuits. That was a huge factor in all this too was I could get it to record or call police or anything. My only weapon was my pistol and this dude was coming up fast threatening me. I have a firefighter friend who works at the range and helps me a lot and I obviously told him about this and he said not to worry, you deescalated as best you could and no one got hurt. If the guy is dumb enough to call the police, traffic footage cams will show him trying to murder you and they’d probably arrest him for bringing attention to it. I’ll keep you updated. Thanks for your understanding comment.
And what if he had a gun in his car, waited for you to turn around, and shot you?
You escalated by brandishing arms. If you feel in danger that you must escalate, the better thing would have been to have him get on ground and call police to come make a report. That way you get it on record that you are in the right, and the police get the real story. As it stands they are only gwtting his side now.
this is all reasonable when you aren't being chased by a fucking maniac trying to ram your truck. I also have plenty of witnesses of him chasing me and getting out of his car threatening to kill me. the moron did it at a stop light....
I understand. It's easy to think about now that it isn't the heat of the moment.
Still, I would contact the police voluntarily and asap. Dude may be seeking revenge or file a false report or who knows.
The gun got him away, but now the brain has to keep him away. That's my thoughts considering myself in same situation.
Hope it all goes well for ya!
"I would contact the police voluntarily." Nope. If they call you, have your lawyer answer.
^^^THIS^^
Call your attorney first, get your attorney the facts of the story. Let the attorney handle the police.
In any instance where self defense has to occur, the LEO's are NOT your friend. As I said upthread - they are looking for suspects to a crime (that is what they are trained to think and do), and the one escalating with a greater level of force is their primary suspect until the lawyers get involved.
Right now, WhitePowerRanger, that's you.
I definitely am, once my phone charges I'm giving them a call and submitting to whatever they want. but he did assault my first with a water bottle and was coming for more and I was trapped. I literally fucking freaked dude.
I wouldn’t call anybody. Nothing is going to happen. Chill
You are stupid if you call the cops without a lawyer.
I ended up realizing that in the shower and called an attorney instead lol. Appointment tomorrow. Will update
And what? Admit to committing a crime?
So what did you want him to do? Stay in his car and wait til the other guy breaks the window which is exactly what he threatened to do? How naive. Getting out of the car and pulling the gun ended the situation quickly and was the right thing to do.
Uh, no, it was the against the law thing to do.
Have you ever seen people try to break car windows? They aren't fragile.
The second he touched the window, all he had to do was SHOW the pistol, not brandish, or draw down, and the situation would have ended, without him committing a crime.
It is illegal to draw down on someone, unless your life is in imminent danger (being punched is not in imminent danger) even in Stand Your Ground states.
If he would have stayed in his car, he would have at least had Castle Doctrine protections.
Not a smart play there, at all, sir.
I'm alive. and username fits
Should never pull a gun unless u plan to shoot it. Also you broke the law multiple times. This is what gun grabbers use to make their points. Thank you.
The assailant had already thrown a water bottle in his face. In most areas I know of, that already places him under suspicion of having another weapon, and already has committed assault. His driving had already endangered not just his life, but lives and property of other drivers.
No need to wait until another assault takes place, or another weapon drawn.
Many 'Pedes would have done just what the OP did, and let the lawyers handle it afterward.
The only thing I'd say to the OP is that if a weapon comes out - even if to place on a dash board to warn - the attorney gets called first, BEFORE the police.
In every instance, the police are not your friend here. Their minds are looking for a crime, and the person with the highest level of force is the first suspect considered.
The police are nobody's friend, they work for us and will simply pick a side, your word against the other guy. The person who reports it first would likely have the upper hand, cause they can paint the other person as the law breaker. Doesn't mean the story will be believed in the end, but it could be, and wouldn't be close to the first time or last that it's happened. Also, the first place to go after the incident is probably not here, but your ATTY.
if he took another step, he was getting shot, he would have been within punching distance and he already assaulted me and threatened to kill me verbally. kindly, go fuck yourself dipshit
Pede look we all have the benefit of hindsight don't take it personally and I assure you most people won't act perfectly in those situations either
I get it that you don't want to hear that you were in the wrong, but you were.
I teach firearms courses, and you messed up just about as bad as you could, without discharging your gun.
It is illegal to draw down on someone. Period. What makes it worse, he didn't have a weapon.
This even goes for Stand your Ground states and Castle Doctrine states.
Getting out of your car was a bad idea also, because staying IN your car, you have SOME castle doctrine protections, and displaying your weapon, could have possibly been ok. It also indicates that you were not in fear of your life when you got out of your car.
The fact that you pointed your gun at him, makes this an assault charge, AGAINST YOU. Assault doesn't require contact, that is why we have the word BATTERY.
If you call the cops and tell them what happened, you will be admitting to a crime. If you leave parts out, you will be lying to the police. I would NOT call, without having consulted a lawyer.
In the future, if you feel that you MUST "brandish" your weapon, you need to keep it in the 'low ready'. This is still illegal, but it is better than pointing it at someone.
You should check you local laws. Remember you asked for the critique.
Well, then I guess he should have used the gun and killed the fucker. One asshole less, who cares? I heard cops say that if you pull a gun, kill the guy because if you don't, you will be in trouble for brandishing a gun. So kill. Also, utter a couple of warnings first. It's stupid, but then again cops aren't intelligent or otherwise they wouldn't be cops. Same for lawyers.
I want to type "Fake and Gay", but I wont.
But you did
Because it is. Fake and Gay.
I’m sure you’d know all about that; like how you were being fake by pretending to not want to type something and you did and the thing you typed was pretty fucking gay
nope.
How the hell do you figure that? There's no grounds to issue a warrant because no evidence of a crime exists. That actually requires an investigation and no cop is going to take the word of a single witness
Everything you have said is wrong.
There is grounds to issue a warrant.
Not all crime requires physical evidence.
Not all crime is investigated before a warrant is drawn up.
No cop is going to take the word of a single witness, except in every case that they do. Sexual battery, theft, assault, etc, etc.
There's this thing called probable cause, judges RARELY issue warrants unless there's substantial evidence of a crime. And why? False arrest. If the allegations of your one witness are proven false defendant gets a HUGE pay day for false arrest, likely false imprisonment AND assorted civil rights claim.
You can believe what you want. And I'll believe the truth.
I guess you don't know what a preliminary trial is.
There's no such thing as a "preliminary trial" in criminal law. There's an arraignment where a defendant enters a plea. Trust me fren I wouldn't tell you something that I am not certain about
They might have a warrant for your arrest for posting the most retarded comment on the internet. Congrats!
The worst advice I saw in this post, is people telling him to call the cops and ADMIT to committing a crime, lol.
As someone else said, it's things like this that give the left "ammo" against the 2nd.
I think you may have misunderstood what the ccw instructors may have been trying to suggest. Absolutely if you point a firearm at someone it can lead to criminal charges being filed but there's an enormous difference between that and a warrant being issued. Often when charges are filed LE gives defendants the opportunity to report without a warrant