Capitalism does the most good for the most people of any system on Earth. It’s not perfect, sure. But the poorest quarter of people in the US today have it better than the richest people a hundred years ago.
Eh I mean there are clear ethical quandaries with having the ability to produce and provide life saving resources and refusing to based solely on an arbitrary profit margin. Or any other number of oopsies that occur with limited resources and private property.
It’s by no means perfect, it’s just the least bad.
economic systems are not meant to replace ethics and morals. I think capitalism is not broken and people can succeed and make money and also uphold their values. Example: Chick Fil-A.
The American capitalist system, by allowing the creation of more output than any other system, not only lifts up all Americans, it also allows Americans to be extremely generous in what they give to others through charity. If we can keep taxes low, there will continue to be private charities. If taxes keep going up, they will mostly cease to exist due t o less money available and duplication of services (though government run services are nearly always less responsive and helpful than private services.)
The principle of capitalism is inherently perfect because it only focuses on ONE thing. ONE THING is dictated by the principle of capitalism.
Two parties exchange goods and agree that through this exchange the goods become the private property of the receiving parties respectively.
That is the entirety of capitalism. The transaction of goods.
Now we can then flesh out a moral system around it that allows for say child labor. Slavery. Prostitution. Drug dealings. etc. or one that condemns transactions we consider immoral.
This does nothing to the underlying principle of capitalism. That two parties meet and agree to an exchange.
Capitalism is perfect. How we engage in capitalism as humans now that is a different story.
Socialism however violates several rights from the get go. It violates the right to private property and liberty by mandating communal ownership in a third party, the state. Your labor is not yours, but the state's. In short it strips you of the one thing you can always exchange.
"Corporatism" is what people actually have a problem with. Corporatism is not capitalism, it's monopoly by a new name and now enshrined in law with protections no individual can ever have.
Corporatism has utterly decimated the concept of liability, as no person is responsible when they do something illegal. The corporation can't even be jailed or punished in any meaningful way, so a simple fine is the most that will ever happen. Usually far less than the profit made from the illegal activity.
Our entire oligarchic system is controlled by 'faceless' corporations and their billion dollar a year lobbyist groups engaging in "Legal" bribery. Not just in DC, but in every so called first world country.
None of that has anything to do with capitalism, it's unchecked, legalized, freedom-from-liability licensing.
If we were still capitalist, someone would go to jail when a company commits a crime. Because crimes are not committed by faceless companies, they are committed by people.
How can a system of exchange that would allow things like sex slavery, child labor, or drug dealing be perfect? You just listed out those things and said they need to be corrected. People like Adam Smith even condemned shit like this and even landlords. Thomas Paine wrote about the need for old age and disable pensions.
Because that isn't capitalism. Capitalism is JUST the concept of exchanging goods for other goods and then agreeing the other person is the owner. An exchange of ownership of goods.
That is ALL capitalism is. The moral structure of the society that utilizes capitalism dictates what form it takes. You see the distinction?
Capitalism is the economic system. The moral structure on top of it is separate. This is a conflation made by socialists to attack a system of economics they cannot compete against.
For example. Why is religion allowed to exist when it lets priests diddle kids? What do the priests diddling kids have to do with the religion? Does the religion command it? No. Does Capitalism tell you to sell your kids? No!
You have private property that can be freely exchanged for the property of others. Your labor is your own and the state's like it is in Socialism.
"Capitalism is JUST the concept of exchanging goods for other goods and then agreeing the other person is the owner"
I know. This includes exchanging goods like human chattle in the form of slavery and drugs. The way to prevent this sort of perverted shit is to use the state to enact laws protecting people and making those things illegal. And no, socialist dont use morals as an attack on capitalism because Marxist thought argues that "morals" arent even real.
Im not arguing in favor of socialism, Im arguing that capitalism isnt a perfect system and that even its advocates, mostly Adam Smith, even called out the failings of it and offered corrections. Market economies are very obviously superior to planned/centralized ones, but that does mean capitalism is some monolithic unquestionable god.
Youre not making any counter argument. The poster himself listed out those as examples of capitalism going wrong. If you dont place moral and ethical restrictions, then there is nothing stoping the free market and exchange of slaves and drugs.
This. Capitalism isnt evil or good, its completely amoral. Its a system with only one goal, make money. But this comes at the price of any sort of ethical or moral problems. People who worship capitalism, especially when they are just normal middle class or working class people just seem oblivious to me. The reality is that if your boss could, he would make you his slave. You can hate communism without also being some blinded ancap weirdo. The economy should serve the people of America, we shouldnt worship it as some unquestionable god, especially when its certain aspects of global capitalism that are causing the problems we face today.
Technically it means nothing but the existence of individual liberties & respecting them socially regardless of class and other group identities. A society that does not respect property rights will also not respect a person's right to his own body and his own actions. On the extreme it means the life of people is subject to the whims of bureaucrats and politicians, on the lower end it means the government will arbitrarily meddle with the affairs of everybody to everybody's detriment.
Also "Capitalism" is the term coined by its greatest enemy, who idiotically only saw the accumulation of resources as the (free, modern) market's sole purpose in the hand of a few... which also just follows a Pareto Distribution (or Price's Law). It's a natural phenomenon which reaches beyond humanity, beyond Earth itself - the mass of stars is also distributed in a Pareto Distribution for example.
I recommend using the term "Free Market Capitalism" in debates instead of Capitalism. Because then they might realize what they are actually opposing. In their mind Capitalism is something it is not. Clarifying the definition is also a good approach - they like to conflate Capitalism with government action, whereas Capitalism is strictly against government action in the first place (beyond the bare minimum necessary at least).
There’s one aspect of free-market capitalism that people always forget and it has me doubting whether i still consider myself a free-market cap guy.
It’s that baked in the free-market capitalism cake is the implication of free movement of labor. Obviously this can be a problem. If one addresses the labor mobility issue then it ceases to be purely “free-market capitalism”
Well, the free movement of labor is only a problem if you have socialist systems in place to reward the (illegal) immigration of people who can't keep up with the standards laid upon them to compete in the labor market. In theory nobody who isn't already competent enough to make a living should even consider entering the country.
Although we have to acknowledge that a lack of borders is indeed a major issue as well. We have to expect that people would enter who will be more harm than good. The ability to arm yourself without restrictions could be a viable solution though - it would make any criminal behavior a deadly endeavor.
So while I think quite positively about Anarcho-Capitalism, I believe being pro-borders is still essential up to the very last. Filtering people reasonably and setting high standards is vastly preferable. Open borders otherwise would be a self-detonating program. Regardless, I'd prefer if the population itself generates the resolve necessary to maintain a free society and avoid getting it undermined and destroyed from external AND internal forces, and if it weren't up to a government to ensure it.
Regardless of all of this, it's still good enough if we break 9 out of 10 chains. The 10th one (borders) can be up to debate once everything else is achieved. And before that, it would be nice if the ship stops sailing towards the waterfall's top side.
I recently learned about Holodomor. Its insane we never learned about this in history class. Socialist genocide of 3-12 MILLION PEOPLE wasn't even a footnote.
For the failures of fascism, masquerading as capitalism, Marxism is offered as the solution by Demorats, and RINOs capitulate, while Rush Limbaugh tells his audience we live in a capitalist society and corporations = capitalism.
Rush Limbaugh hates Demorat corporatism like Solyndra, but defends Monsanto, GMOs, vaccines, etc.
We have more socialist-style programs and regulations in America now than ever in its history, and that isn’t good enough for Semites like Bernie Sanders.
Ever notice how waving a swastika will get someone banned on a bunch of liberal platforms, but waving the far, far deadlier Hammer and Sickle is completely cool?
Capitalism does the most good for the most people of any system on Earth. It’s not perfect, sure. But the poorest quarter of people in the US today have it better than the richest people a hundred years ago.
It is perfect. Its the systems weve created outside of it which interact through it that arent
Eh I mean there are clear ethical quandaries with having the ability to produce and provide life saving resources and refusing to based solely on an arbitrary profit margin. Or any other number of oopsies that occur with limited resources and private property.
It’s by no means perfect, it’s just the least bad.
economic systems are not meant to replace ethics and morals. I think capitalism is not broken and people can succeed and make money and also uphold their values. Example: Chick Fil-A.
The American capitalist system, by allowing the creation of more output than any other system, not only lifts up all Americans, it also allows Americans to be extremely generous in what they give to others through charity. If we can keep taxes low, there will continue to be private charities. If taxes keep going up, they will mostly cease to exist due t o less money available and duplication of services (though government run services are nearly always less responsive and helpful than private services.)
The principle of capitalism is inherently perfect because it only focuses on ONE thing. ONE THING is dictated by the principle of capitalism.
Two parties exchange goods and agree that through this exchange the goods become the private property of the receiving parties respectively.
That is the entirety of capitalism. The transaction of goods.
Now we can then flesh out a moral system around it that allows for say child labor. Slavery. Prostitution. Drug dealings. etc. or one that condemns transactions we consider immoral.
This does nothing to the underlying principle of capitalism. That two parties meet and agree to an exchange.
Capitalism is perfect. How we engage in capitalism as humans now that is a different story.
Socialism however violates several rights from the get go. It violates the right to private property and liberty by mandating communal ownership in a third party, the state. Your labor is not yours, but the state's. In short it strips you of the one thing you can always exchange.
"Corporatism" is what people actually have a problem with. Corporatism is not capitalism, it's monopoly by a new name and now enshrined in law with protections no individual can ever have.
Corporatism has utterly decimated the concept of liability, as no person is responsible when they do something illegal. The corporation can't even be jailed or punished in any meaningful way, so a simple fine is the most that will ever happen. Usually far less than the profit made from the illegal activity.
Our entire oligarchic system is controlled by 'faceless' corporations and their billion dollar a year lobbyist groups engaging in "Legal" bribery. Not just in DC, but in every so called first world country.
None of that has anything to do with capitalism, it's unchecked, legalized, freedom-from-liability licensing.
If we were still capitalist, someone would go to jail when a company commits a crime. Because crimes are not committed by faceless companies, they are committed by people.
perfectly said.
How can a system of exchange that would allow things like sex slavery, child labor, or drug dealing be perfect? You just listed out those things and said they need to be corrected. People like Adam Smith even condemned shit like this and even landlords. Thomas Paine wrote about the need for old age and disable pensions.
Because that isn't capitalism. Capitalism is JUST the concept of exchanging goods for other goods and then agreeing the other person is the owner. An exchange of ownership of goods.
That is ALL capitalism is. The moral structure of the society that utilizes capitalism dictates what form it takes. You see the distinction?
Capitalism is the economic system. The moral structure on top of it is separate. This is a conflation made by socialists to attack a system of economics they cannot compete against.
For example. Why is religion allowed to exist when it lets priests diddle kids? What do the priests diddling kids have to do with the religion? Does the religion command it? No. Does Capitalism tell you to sell your kids? No!
You have private property that can be freely exchanged for the property of others. Your labor is your own and the state's like it is in Socialism.
"Capitalism is JUST the concept of exchanging goods for other goods and then agreeing the other person is the owner"
I know. This includes exchanging goods like human chattle in the form of slavery and drugs. The way to prevent this sort of perverted shit is to use the state to enact laws protecting people and making those things illegal. And no, socialist dont use morals as an attack on capitalism because Marxist thought argues that "morals" arent even real.
Im not arguing in favor of socialism, Im arguing that capitalism isnt a perfect system and that even its advocates, mostly Adam Smith, even called out the failings of it and offered corrections. Market economies are very obviously superior to planned/centralized ones, but that does mean capitalism is some monolithic unquestionable god.
Youre not making any counter argument. The poster himself listed out those as examples of capitalism going wrong. If you dont place moral and ethical restrictions, then there is nothing stoping the free market and exchange of slaves and drugs.
This. Capitalism isnt evil or good, its completely amoral. Its a system with only one goal, make money. But this comes at the price of any sort of ethical or moral problems. People who worship capitalism, especially when they are just normal middle class or working class people just seem oblivious to me. The reality is that if your boss could, he would make you his slave. You can hate communism without also being some blinded ancap weirdo. The economy should serve the people of America, we shouldnt worship it as some unquestionable god, especially when its certain aspects of global capitalism that are causing the problems we face today.
Go look up some of the sadistic shit companies like coca cola or chiquita banana do.
"The reality is that if your boss could, he would make you his slave." You actually typed this? Really? Go back to redacted.
Yeah retard. Most peoples complaints rests with the monetary system....a government creation
Technically it means nothing but the existence of individual liberties & respecting them socially regardless of class and other group identities. A society that does not respect property rights will also not respect a person's right to his own body and his own actions. On the extreme it means the life of people is subject to the whims of bureaucrats and politicians, on the lower end it means the government will arbitrarily meddle with the affairs of everybody to everybody's detriment.
Also "Capitalism" is the term coined by its greatest enemy, who idiotically only saw the accumulation of resources as the (free, modern) market's sole purpose in the hand of a few... which also just follows a Pareto Distribution (or Price's Law). It's a natural phenomenon which reaches beyond humanity, beyond Earth itself - the mass of stars is also distributed in a Pareto Distribution for example.
I recommend using the term "Free Market Capitalism" in debates instead of Capitalism. Because then they might realize what they are actually opposing. In their mind Capitalism is something it is not. Clarifying the definition is also a good approach - they like to conflate Capitalism with government action, whereas Capitalism is strictly against government action in the first place (beyond the bare minimum necessary at least).
There’s one aspect of free-market capitalism that people always forget and it has me doubting whether i still consider myself a free-market cap guy.
It’s that baked in the free-market capitalism cake is the implication of free movement of labor. Obviously this can be a problem. If one addresses the labor mobility issue then it ceases to be purely “free-market capitalism”
Well, the free movement of labor is only a problem if you have socialist systems in place to reward the (illegal) immigration of people who can't keep up with the standards laid upon them to compete in the labor market. In theory nobody who isn't already competent enough to make a living should even consider entering the country.
Although we have to acknowledge that a lack of borders is indeed a major issue as well. We have to expect that people would enter who will be more harm than good. The ability to arm yourself without restrictions could be a viable solution though - it would make any criminal behavior a deadly endeavor.
So while I think quite positively about Anarcho-Capitalism, I believe being pro-borders is still essential up to the very last. Filtering people reasonably and setting high standards is vastly preferable. Open borders otherwise would be a self-detonating program. Regardless, I'd prefer if the population itself generates the resolve necessary to maintain a free society and avoid getting it undermined and destroyed from external AND internal forces, and if it weren't up to a government to ensure it.
Regardless of all of this, it's still good enough if we break 9 out of 10 chains. The 10th one (borders) can be up to debate once everything else is achieved. And before that, it would be nice if the ship stops sailing towards the waterfall's top side.
Agreed.
Can we stop for some beef jerky on the way to the chains? I’m hungry.
Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Mihn, and Fidel Castro. All famous jews lol
We both know what you are implying here. Please dont play dumb.
Guess that’s why the tards are writing it nazy now... they have no connection that the word socialism was even in there
There is a quote from Hitler, he basically said
"why socialize banks or factories when we can socialize human beings"
TFW one of the most iconic symbols of capitalism represents cheap and abundant food, available everywhere.
I thought they would have a knockoff version my now. You know, "MacNodalds"
Two sorta meat battys special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun.
Fact: The Chinese people who died during the Great Leap Forward would laugh at the notion of anyone being unhappy with our current system.
Needs schoolbus being loaded up.
Lol @ Legion of Soy
I might have to make a troll Faceberg Group
I recently learned about Holodomor. Its insane we never learned about this in history class. Socialist genocide of 3-12 MILLION PEOPLE wasn't even a footnote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Gets overshadowed by the other Holo
Just here to post some capitalism https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E2J88WCt9wc
Fuck these people or memes, whatever they are at this point. They aren't true blooded Americans.
Not enough organ harvesting from Uygher Muslims and Che Guevaras killing of homosexuals is strangely absent.
For the failures of fascism, masquerading as capitalism, Marxism is offered as the solution by Demorats, and RINOs capitulate, while Rush Limbaugh tells his audience we live in a capitalist society and corporations = capitalism.
Rush Limbaugh hates Demorat corporatism like Solyndra, but defends Monsanto, GMOs, vaccines, etc.
You're free to market yourself however you choose.
Las Vegas?
We have more socialist-style programs and regulations in America now than ever in its history, and that isn’t good enough for Semites like Bernie Sanders.
It will never be good enough for them, either.
Ever notice how waving a swastika will get someone banned on a bunch of liberal platforms, but waving the far, far deadlier Hammer and Sickle is completely cool?
It’s like the 20th century is repeating itself.
Ouch! Truth hurts.
Those guys quarantined pretty quickly when the police said stay at home. Makes me feel they aren't really against fascism.
I upvoted this
then un-upvoted it
just so I could upvote it twice!!