The people with guns and guy recording say that Arbery had been caught in film breaking into people’s homes on previous days... and on this day he was caught snooping around / trespassing at a construction site and started to run when confronted
.... how many times do I have to repeat this: there is no evidence that anyone was brandishing a fire arm. “Brandishing” has a specific legal meaning.... and doesn’t apply to what is seen in video, so you either have super secret videos that no one else has seen, or you are making shit up.
Secondly, Georgia law does allow you to follow and detain people suspected of a crime.
I don't know what happened. But I do know that new Hate Crime legislation is NOT the answer. Hate is a MOTIVE. Regardless of MOTIVE, it is not a CRIME.
Mental state is a valid escalation method in criminal law. For example, meaning to kill someone versus doing it unintentionally but negligently. Why is hate an invalid mental state to use?
Hate is still a motive and not a mental state or crime. Mental state is akin to feeling threatened. Was it reasonable? Are you mentally competent? Are you aggressive or hyper-aggressive?
Though I don't know enough facts, there is some talk that they were looking out for vandals and burglars who had been hitting the area.
Now this is where there is a stark difference between rural areas and metro areas. Metros first thought is to call the cops and run. People in rural areas tend to do their own protecting. So the reasonable response varies from place to place. Still, force should not be excessive.
Anybody that thinks they know what happened is probably projecting at this point. That's why there are investigators and hopefully reasonable ones.
It’s legal for the men to carry guns, it’s legal for them to tell Arbery they want to talk to him....
It’s even legal for them to follow him while possessing guns....
All that matters is: did Arbery attack first? Or did the McMichaels threaten him by pointing the gun /brandishing the gun at him?
Holding a gun alone isn’t enough to be considered a threat and to justify the apparent attack Arbery made.
I think they might be able to get murder pinned because they were stalking him with loaded weapons.
Simply believing that he might be up to something isn’t a justification.
There should be laws against stalking someone while you are armed.
Let’s be real there was no reason they should have stopped him. Maybe call the police. They did not witness a crime. They were not prepared to deal with it. No one should stalk people walking around their neighborhood then confront them with a loaded weapon.
If you are to give both parties the benefit of the doubt then they will manslaughter. I believe they will get something.
Apparently the attempt to arrest the guy and the carrying of weapons was legal. You'd have to prove they set out intending to kill him- it will be tough unless they texted each other with "hey, let's go kill that guy"
Not a chance, those two gung-ho idiots chased him down with guns drawn. The guy couldn't get away, he was on foot and they were in a truck. Given no means of escape the guy assumed he would be fighting for his life when approached by the guy with the shotgun, and rightfully so.
I'm glad it was caught on video or they most certainly would have beaten the charges because they would have made up some bullshit story. Video shows that wasn't a self defense situation for the shooters because they were the ones chasing down the unarmed victim. All the victim was guilty of was trying to fight off the guy with the shotgun from what the video shows.
I'll be pretty pissed off if those guys don't get put away.
To the asshole who voted me down, go fuck yourself. This isn't about race, those two fucking idiots took the law in their own hands and chased this kid down.. read the story there is more to it than the video shows. They cut the kid off a few times and caused him to run back the other direction before he finally gave up and decided he had to fight.
Did those idiots call the cops while they were giving chase? Nope. They should have, but they didn't.
Is that the law? It’s illegal or posses a gun? Or is it illegal to approach a suspected criminal? Or is it just illegal to be carrying a weapon while approaching a suspected criminal while on the phone with police?
It is illegal to brandish your weapon in a threatening fashion at another individual. Given that action, it is not unreasonable to expect the threatened individual to fight.
Ya. But we have no evidence that that happened.... therefore the need for an investigation which will
Ultimately depend on what the survivors say.... and they say they were defending sing themselves
We know through the video that the younger McMichael had his shotgun out during the confrontation. What the hell was he doing with it out and ready? Possessing a gun legally typically means having it holstered. Once you have it out, and use it to menace another individual, the situation is a lot different.
And are you saying that the testimony of the only people who lived through than encounter is all that matters? You do not think their testimony will be self serving? I think the physical and video evidence will have its place.
No, not rightfully so. You cant attack someone and blame them for defending themselves. You deserve many, many downvotes for your ridiculous take on this situation.
It will probably be manslaughter or less, but im with you. The guy wasnt attacking them with deadly force, i thought i learned in a criminal law class that you can only meet force with like force (with exception). Bubba sr. oughta be glad bubba jr aint dead. That would make him question his wisdom in playing cop.
"you can only meet force with like force." That's not exactly correct. If you reasonably fear for your life, you can respond with deadly force. When someone grabs your shotgun, well, now the gun wielder could reasonably fear for his life. It's going to be a tough decision.
It will be shortly after the lying press reports it.
The people with guns and guy recording say that Arbery had been caught in film breaking into people’s homes on previous days... and on this day he was caught snooping around / trespassing at a construction site and started to run when confronted
That still doesn’t mean you get to chase a guy while brandishing firearms.
.... how many times do I have to repeat this: there is no evidence that anyone was brandishing a fire arm. “Brandishing” has a specific legal meaning.... and doesn’t apply to what is seen in video, so you either have super secret videos that no one else has seen, or you are making shit up.
Secondly, Georgia law does allow you to follow and detain people suspected of a crime.
I don't know what happened. But I do know that new Hate Crime legislation is NOT the answer. Hate is a MOTIVE. Regardless of MOTIVE, it is not a CRIME.
CRIMES are MURDER/ROBBERY/ASSAULT/ETC.
You HaTE hate crime legislation!!!!
Hate Crimer!!!!!
Mental state is a valid escalation method in criminal law. For example, meaning to kill someone versus doing it unintentionally but negligently. Why is hate an invalid mental state to use?
Hate is still a motive and not a mental state or crime. Mental state is akin to feeling threatened. Was it reasonable? Are you mentally competent? Are you aggressive or hyper-aggressive?
Though I don't know enough facts, there is some talk that they were looking out for vandals and burglars who had been hitting the area.
Now this is where there is a stark difference between rural areas and metro areas. Metros first thought is to call the cops and run. People in rural areas tend to do their own protecting. So the reasonable response varies from place to place. Still, force should not be excessive.
Anybody that thinks they know what happened is probably projecting at this point. That's why there are investigators and hopefully reasonable ones.
It’s legal for the men to carry guns, it’s legal for them to tell Arbery they want to talk to him.... It’s even legal for them to follow him while possessing guns....
All that matters is: did Arbery attack first? Or did the McMichaels threaten him by pointing the gun /brandishing the gun at him?
Holding a gun alone isn’t enough to be considered a threat and to justify the apparent attack Arbery made.
I know nothing of this story. It will stay that way.
Ever hear of a guy named Travon Martin?
Trial by jury (not trial by social media mob)
Innocent until proven guilty
Due process
Theses are things that set apart real justice from Progressive/SJW/Democrat goals
In most states, a charge of murder allows for a finding of manslaughter. The jury will decide.
I think they might be able to get murder pinned because they were stalking him with loaded weapons.
Simply believing that he might be up to something isn’t a justification.
There should be laws against stalking someone while you are armed.
Let’s be real there was no reason they should have stopped him. Maybe call the police. They did not witness a crime. They were not prepared to deal with it. No one should stalk people walking around their neighborhood then confront them with a loaded weapon.
If you are to give both parties the benefit of the doubt then they will manslaughter. I believe they will get something.
Apparently the attempt to arrest the guy and the carrying of weapons was legal. You'd have to prove they set out intending to kill him- it will be tough unless they texted each other with "hey, let's go kill that guy"
Not a chance, those two gung-ho idiots chased him down with guns drawn. The guy couldn't get away, he was on foot and they were in a truck. Given no means of escape the guy assumed he would be fighting for his life when approached by the guy with the shotgun, and rightfully so.
I'm glad it was caught on video or they most certainly would have beaten the charges because they would have made up some bullshit story. Video shows that wasn't a self defense situation for the shooters because they were the ones chasing down the unarmed victim. All the victim was guilty of was trying to fight off the guy with the shotgun from what the video shows.
I'll be pretty pissed off if those guys don't get put away.
To the asshole who voted me down, go fuck yourself. This isn't about race, those two fucking idiots took the law in their own hands and chased this kid down.. read the story there is more to it than the video shows. They cut the kid off a few times and caused him to run back the other direction before he finally gave up and decided he had to fight.
Did those idiots call the cops while they were giving chase? Nope. They should have, but they didn't.
Is that the law? It’s illegal or posses a gun? Or is it illegal to approach a suspected criminal? Or is it just illegal to be carrying a weapon while approaching a suspected criminal while on the phone with police?
Seriously, what exactly was illegal?
It is illegal to brandish your weapon in a threatening fashion at another individual. Given that action, it is not unreasonable to expect the threatened individual to fight.
Ya. But we have no evidence that that happened.... therefore the need for an investigation which will Ultimately depend on what the survivors say.... and they say they were defending sing themselves
We know through the video that the younger McMichael had his shotgun out during the confrontation. What the hell was he doing with it out and ready? Possessing a gun legally typically means having it holstered. Once you have it out, and use it to menace another individual, the situation is a lot different.
And are you saying that the testimony of the only people who lived through than encounter is all that matters? You do not think their testimony will be self serving? I think the physical and video evidence will have its place.
...... I’m guessing you don’t own any guns... because your statements are really really stupid.
First, tell me more about “holstering a shotgun”.... Second, holding a gun is not “brandishing”....
I’m done. Seriously, the fact that I have to say any of this... I rather go teach my 1 year old how to count.
He had his gun out and ready because he did not know if the suspect was armed.
You really haven't thought this through as well as you think.
None of this would have happened if Bubba did not come out with shotgun drawn.
That's pure speculation.
The attacker may simply have been shot by someone else, after successfully causing harm to a person who was trying to prevent crime.
No, not rightfully so. You cant attack someone and blame them for defending themselves. You deserve many, many downvotes for your ridiculous take on this situation.
It will probably be manslaughter or less, but im with you. The guy wasnt attacking them with deadly force, i thought i learned in a criminal law class that you can only meet force with like force (with exception). Bubba sr. oughta be glad bubba jr aint dead. That would make him question his wisdom in playing cop.
"you can only meet force with like force." That's not exactly correct. If you reasonably fear for your life, you can respond with deadly force. When someone grabs your shotgun, well, now the gun wielder could reasonably fear for his life. It's going to be a tough decision.