Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”. --Robert A. Heinlein
Heinlein was an interesting fellow. Smart, yes. As smart as he thought he was, most probably not.
The arguably one good book he wrote was "Stranger in a Strange Land", but it was full of hippie, ubermench, Christ-marginilizing, sexually deviant commie propaganda.
He gets pushed in a lot of academia because the egotism of his writing appeals to the hidden egotism of the professors. "Boohoo humanity sucks, but we know better!"
That stuff you're citing was Heinlein's stab at that culture, not a treatise on why we should like it. He wrote some great stories, but I certainly wouldn't elevate him to some kind of infallible, god-like status. Even he confessed he was a shitty writer who happened to stumble into some good luck. His work was entertaining, but you can definitely see his quality plunge (like a car off a cliff) as he got older.
He has many good stories. It's important to contextualize them in the time he wrote them, and then to see what he was satirizing or commenting on. Most of us still understand TANSTAAFL. I think that mindset is lost on the current young generation.
No, he hated monopolies etc too, and this was before computers were serious. Think more "Mike Rowe" and running your own single machinist factory making "Your one widget."
People that actually make things are hated (envied, perhaps) by the Ivory Tower, and the Power Brokers. When you shut the effing country ... if we'd done just a little bit more we'd be Venezuela in a month.
This is my experience as well, only they get angry and shake their head like they know something you don't, or look up into the air and sigh real hard, like it's an aggravation trying to convince you of their bullshit.
"We'll just see!" is their favorite argument when they run out of ammunition, and that's when you know you've won.
Musk talked about this in his latest Joe Rogan appearance too. He expressed how he doesn't care for people like Warren Buffet, and mentioned how we need to get back to supporting manufacturing and making actual physical things again.
Not sure why people are knocking Heinlein. Served in the Navy. His book Starship Trooper was a good essay on leadership the purpose of soldiers and war. Basically boils down Clausewitz in about 3 pages in there. Also preditcs youth crime and delinquancy. Along with a few goodies like optical matching guidance systems. Not bad for something written in the fifties. Not sure what happened after that.
It could be a difference of interpretation but when I see "creating," anything with the suffix of -crat (to rule, or rule by) and -archy (government and again, rule) I assume that's not what Heinlein meant.
You've let them convince you that some people in tech know everything. From all we know, the people who know how to fix the world are retired at 41, fishing in their lakehouse in the mountains somewhere, or in the white house, or screaming about interdementional aliens.
It really is. No book has ever given me a sense of introspection like Screwtape Letters. C.S. Lewis in general has helped build a large foundation of my belief system.
You’re woefully mistaken, but let’s say you’re right. How is it then that Lewis and Chesterton and Macdonald and Tolkien all lead you to the foot of Christ? That’s what happened to me? Reading Lewis made me want to know Christ better.
I follow a strict interpretation of the bible (i.e., authorial intent) just like I do of the constitution, and this doesn't lead me to these ridiculous claims. Lewis wasn't an occultist.
That's what I meant: some things in the Bible are allegory, some are tales told to impart certain lessons on the listeners, and some relate to cultural values that may not be necessary/relevant with modern technology/civilization (such as 'don't wear clothing with more than two types of materials" when modern T-shirts can have 3 or more by themselves).
some relate to cultural values that may not be necessary/relevant with modern technology/civilization (such as 'don't wear clothing with more than two types of materials" when modern T-shirts can have 3 or more by themselves).
There's a skin condition known as textile dermatitis, a condition often caused by clothing made out of two or more types of material (usually synthetic, i.e. man-made).
Give these people clothing made of 100% cotton or 100% wool and those problems almost always go away.
I'm not obsessed but Levis and cotton T-shirts meet the Biblical standards, so who am I to complain?
It depends what you mean by "occultist". His friend Cecil Harwood was an Anthroposophist, and Charles Williams certainly had unorthodox ideas, tried to practice them and used them in his writings.
Jesus isn’t a lion. Ra, the Egyptian sun god, is a lion by way of an ancient pun.The lion is the king of the jungle, the strongest of those who live outside of God’s law, whose legitimacy is guaranteed not by God’s will but by his own might. The lion is lucifer, not Jesus (who is typically portrayed as a lamb, no? Not as a predator!).
Symbols have meaning, anon. (((They))) laugh and laugh at us as we hold up their many satanic/pagan symbols as Christian symbols. Further, there is no need to analogize the bible since the bible stands on its own.
I am not saying we should burn these books or anything. There is nothing wrong with reading, even enjoying the written ideas of the (((enemy))). It is important, however, that you also understand.
Uhhh..this cite also calls the perseverance of the saints false doctrine. Says Gods unconditional love for his children (those Christ died for) is false doctrine. You need to dump this source becuase your error on CS Lewis seems to stem from trusting a false authority and misreading scripture.
Fun story about Lewis for those of you who don't know...
Although he's most famous for his Christian literature, he was an atheist until his colleague and close friend, JRR Tolkien, convinced him to put together an objective case against the Bible. Upon studying it for research on how to refute Christianity, he became more convinced of its truth, and the rest is history.
There is hope for anyone, even duped lefties, who still responds to a christian allegory. That's actually the POINT of christian allegories. The story is true. The names have been changed to protect the ignorant.
He wrote a mythology for Great Britain because the nation never really had one of its own. That was one of his reasons for creating that fantasy world; also his experience in WWI had a big influence on his writing as well.
The Chronicles of Narnia on the other hand have a definite Christian Allegory going on. Aslan as a Christ-like figure being one example.
I've never heard any of ideas taught, but even in CA in the based city of Bakersfield you can always find at least a copy of Prince Caspian in any school library.
Also the best English teacher I ever had referenced The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe once.
The strength of the space trilogy is not in the story, though it is superb. Its
Not in the content or even in the philosophical and theological arguments presented. Its strength, or “glory” as lewis would put it is in the overarching themes that stretch the imagination.
Looking back, I realize that I read a huge amount of books that I probably should not have been reading until I was older. Louis L’Amour, James A Mitchner, Lewis, Tolkien, Dr. Who novels, and virtually every Star Trek book.
If you like C.S. Lewis you should also check out G.K. Chesterton:
A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it. A dead dog can be lifted on the leaping water with all the swiftness of a leaping hound; but only a live dog can swim backwards. A paper boat can ride the rising deluge with all the airy arrogance of a fairy ship, but if the fairy ship sails up stream it is really rowed by the fairies. And among the things that merely went with the tide of apparent progress and enlargement there was many a demagogue or sophist whose wild gestures were in truth as lifeless as the movement of a dead dog's limbs wavering in the eddying water; and many a philosophy uncommonly like a paper boat, of the sort that it is not difficult to knock into a cocked hat.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
Don't let the left and the tyranical Democrat politicians get you down. Observe, learn, and grow stronger from the adversity you face against principles you know to be just and true. Choose enlightenment over anger, choose determination over discouragement, thank them for making you stronger and use your newfound wisdom and resolve to stand up for what you believe in and crush those who would harm the country and way of life you hold dear.
I'm determined to come out on top and have a good time, even if I'm facing a zombie apocalypse type of scenario. I've already had it easier than 99% of my ancestors, so something spicy is kind of expected.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
The Abolition of Man had the greatest impact on me of any book I've ever read. And Till We Have Faces. And Mere Christianity. And Surprised by Joy. And The Pilgrims Regress. C.S. Lewis has had a greater impact on my life than any other author.
Citations? He surely wasn't reformed but he wasn't pagan or occultic either. Mere Christianity is evangelical; Chronicles series is an allegory with Christian truth not a 1 to 1 correspondence with biblical doctrine.
Lewis was friends with L Ron Hubbard and Tolkien...they are all con artists. Conservatives definitely shouldn't be reading this stuff
It's a reason Heinlein thought they were all loons. Not that Heinlein is someone to trust either, but he was smarter than all of them. At least Tolkien was legitimately talented..Lewis and Hubbard simply aren't on his level (and both are religiously corrupt)
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.”. --Robert A. Heinlein
Heinlein was an interesting fellow. Smart, yes. As smart as he thought he was, most probably not.
The arguably one good book he wrote was "Stranger in a Strange Land", but it was full of hippie, ubermench, Christ-marginilizing, sexually deviant commie propaganda.
He gets pushed in a lot of academia because the egotism of his writing appeals to the hidden egotism of the professors. "Boohoo humanity sucks, but we know better!"
Great track by Iron Maiden though
This!
I read everything Heinlein wrote, twice.
"Stranger in a Strange Land" was not his best work, acclaimed by those who did not understand the genius of the man.
Glory Road was the better book, fight me.
That stuff you're citing was Heinlein's stab at that culture, not a treatise on why we should like it. He wrote some great stories, but I certainly wouldn't elevate him to some kind of infallible, god-like status. Even he confessed he was a shitty writer who happened to stumble into some good luck. His work was entertaining, but you can definitely see his quality plunge (like a car off a cliff) as he got older.
He has many good stories. It's important to contextualize them in the time he wrote them, and then to see what he was satirizing or commenting on. Most of us still understand TANSTAAFL. I think that mindset is lost on the current young generation.
So... technocrat oligarchy?
No thanks.
We don't need the "elites" to save us. I know a lot of guys who will never have to work a day in their life, and they are completely useless.
On the other hand, the more middle-class people I know are far more thrifty and self-reliant. Overwhelmingly so, in fact.
This Heinlein guy sounds like a dumbass.
No, he hated monopolies etc too, and this was before computers were serious. Think more "Mike Rowe" and running your own single machinist factory making "Your one widget."
People that actually make things are hated (envied, perhaps) by the Ivory Tower, and the Power Brokers. When you shut the effing country ... if we'd done just a little bit more we'd be Venezuela in a month.
The dems were certainly trying as hard as they could to get us there
were
?!?!?!?!
I'm in Washington. Send lawyers, money and, well, ....
Send lawyers guns and money
The shit has hit the fan
Everyone bashes lawyers till they need one
Just song lyrics my friend :) check out Warren Zevon
This is my experience as well, only they get angry and shake their head like they know something you don't, or look up into the air and sigh real hard, like it's an aggravation trying to convince you of their bullshit.
"We'll just see!" is their favorite argument when they run out of ammunition, and that's when you know you've won.
One of my favorite songs...
Musk talked about this in his latest Joe Rogan appearance too. He expressed how he doesn't care for people like Warren Buffet, and mentioned how we need to get back to supporting manufacturing and making actual physical things again.
Not sure why people are knocking Heinlein. Served in the Navy. His book Starship Trooper was a good essay on leadership the purpose of soldiers and war. Basically boils down Clausewitz in about 3 pages in there. Also preditcs youth crime and delinquancy. Along with a few goodies like optical matching guidance systems. Not bad for something written in the fifties. Not sure what happened after that.
It could be a difference of interpretation but when I see "creating," anything with the suffix of -crat (to rule, or rule by) and -archy (government and again, rule) I assume that's not what Heinlein meant.
You've let them convince you that some people in tech know everything. From all we know, the people who know how to fix the world are retired at 41, fishing in their lakehouse in the mountains somewhere, or in the white house, or screaming about interdementional aliens.
What utter nonsense.
The natural state of man is to survive and to survive means to produce, and through productivity create wealth and stability.
Guys like this confuse wealth with currency.
Don’t quote that scam artist
To whom do you refer?
Hrm. Are you confusing Heinlein with Hubbard?
If not, what scams did Heinlein pull?
Y'all raised a bunch of bitches - CS Lewis
FTFY: Y'all raised a bunch of little bitches - CS Lewis
The diminutive is important :)
One of the greatest Christian thinkers in the last century at least. His close friend J.R.R. Tolkien, who brought him to Christianity, was another.
That one is awesome! The Four Loves is great too!
It really is. No book has ever given me a sense of introspection like Screwtape Letters. C.S. Lewis in general has helped build a large foundation of my belief system.
You’re woefully mistaken, but let’s say you’re right. How is it then that Lewis and Chesterton and Macdonald and Tolkien all lead you to the foot of Christ? That’s what happened to me? Reading Lewis made me want to know Christ better.
Yep, you're the only here who gets it. Thanks for the good comments
IMO they're both occultists, not Christians.
Let me guess - listening to rock and roll will send me to hell?
“If it’s got a syncopated rhythm then your soul is gonna rot!”
Source or shush.
His sources are probably based on strict interpretation of the Bible, mostly like this.
"C.S. Lewis: The Devil's Wisest Fool"
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/cs_lewis-fool.htm
They also have similar complaints about Harry Potter, Dungeons and Dragons, etc.
I follow a strict interpretation of the bible (i.e., authorial intent) just like I do of the constitution, and this doesn't lead me to these ridiculous claims. Lewis wasn't an occultist.
It is a sign of how far down we have fallen that this is getting downvotes.
There is always need for some moderation in all things, even the Bible.
That's what I meant: some things in the Bible are allegory, some are tales told to impart certain lessons on the listeners, and some relate to cultural values that may not be necessary/relevant with modern technology/civilization (such as 'don't wear clothing with more than two types of materials" when modern T-shirts can have 3 or more by themselves).
If you take it all literally, you can become too obsessed with it, like the people who were so obsessed with Star Wars that they created a real-life religion based on the Jedi Order after people listed their religion as "Jedi" on the 2001 census.
There's a skin condition known as textile dermatitis, a condition often caused by clothing made out of two or more types of material (usually synthetic, i.e. man-made).
Give these people clothing made of 100% cotton or 100% wool and those problems almost always go away.
I'm not obsessed but Levis and cotton T-shirts meet the Biblical standards, so who am I to complain?
It depends what you mean by "occultist". His friend Cecil Harwood was an Anthroposophist, and Charles Williams certainly had unorthodox ideas, tried to practice them and used them in his writings.
Jesus isn’t a lion. Ra, the Egyptian sun god, is a lion by way of an ancient pun.The lion is the king of the jungle, the strongest of those who live outside of God’s law, whose legitimacy is guaranteed not by God’s will but by his own might. The lion is lucifer, not Jesus (who is typically portrayed as a lamb, no? Not as a predator!).
Symbols have meaning, anon. (((They))) laugh and laugh at us as we hold up their many satanic/pagan symbols as Christian symbols. Further, there is no need to analogize the bible since the bible stands on its own.
I am not saying we should burn these books or anything. There is nothing wrong with reading, even enjoying the written ideas of the (((enemy))). It is important, however, that you also understand.
Uhhh..this cite also calls the perseverance of the saints false doctrine. Says Gods unconditional love for his children (those Christ died for) is false doctrine. You need to dump this source becuase your error on CS Lewis seems to stem from trusting a false authority and misreading scripture.
nods head
Yep, on the money, and they were both friends with L ron Hubbard..but their estates have buried proof of it
Fun story about Lewis for those of you who don't know...
Although he's most famous for his Christian literature, he was an atheist until his colleague and close friend, JRR Tolkien, convinced him to put together an objective case against the Bible. Upon studying it for research on how to refute Christianity, he became more convinced of its truth, and the rest is history.
There is hope for anyone, even duped lefties, who still responds to a christian allegory. That's actually the POINT of christian allegories. The story is true. The names have been changed to protect the ignorant.
Sounds like you’ve been listening to Jordan Peterson
So true. đź‘Ť
Nicely said
JRR Tolkien was not a fan of allegories.
He wrote a mythology for Great Britain because the nation never really had one of its own. That was one of his reasons for creating that fantasy world; also his experience in WWI had a big influence on his writing as well.
The Chronicles of Narnia on the other hand have a definite Christian Allegory going on. Aslan as a Christ-like figure being one example.
Lewis was a stable genius. Cant recommend his work enough. I don't care if your Christian, Atheist, or barney, his Space Trilogy is profound.
He was also deeply influenced by G.K. Chesterton, who was the greatest thinker of the 20th century.
This.
“Tell me who your father is, and I'll tell you who you are.”
Riot when unsure how to answer.
ouch
A similar (but less deterministic) African proverb says “only a fool does not surpass his father.”
Wow that was a really long rabbit hole! Check this out! https://www.orderofman.com/initiate-the-boys-or-theyll-burn-down-the-village/
do you have any other manhood articles or stuff to look at?
The Makah Tribe (and many others) did things like hunt whales in sealskin boats. Gotta have less of those pesky males somehow.
(Not a food thing, the Pacific Northwest grows enough food that 'organized agriculture' has no point for a tribal life)
A God fearing white man talking sense? Lol no
nope
I've never heard any of ideas taught, but even in CA in the based city of Bakersfield you can always find at least a copy of Prince Caspian in any school library.
Also the best English teacher I ever had referenced The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe once.
God bless this based Narnia merchant.
2 yrs ago I never dreamed I'd be enthusiastically up voting this particular sentence :)
Further up and further in, fren, further up and further in
Ahhh, a Narnia quote I have never heard quoted in my life but still remember!
Thanks fren :D
I know it's not among his most well-known books, but I recommend people check out his Space Trilogy.
The Space Trilogy is fantastic, especially That Hideous Strength.
oh man yeah it's so good
The strength of the space trilogy is not in the story, though it is superb. Its Not in the content or even in the philosophical and theological arguments presented. Its strength, or “glory” as lewis would put it is in the overarching themes that stretch the imagination.
username checks out
the contrast between the first+second books and the third is amazing, never seen a stage set so well before
Agreed. Its awesome to see a writer spend two books to set the stage just to get a point across.
YES. Definitely second this.
His explanation for how the devil operates in Perelandra is brilliant.
Completely agree!
Yes. I wondered why this wasn’t well known. Read it as a 7-10 year old. Going to have to reread them now.
I'd never even heard of them till I was in college.
Looking back, I realize that I read a huge amount of books that I probably should not have been reading until I was older. Louis L’Amour, James A Mitchner, Lewis, Tolkien, Dr. Who novels, and virtually every Star Trek book.
If you like C.S. Lewis you should also check out G.K. Chesterton:
Chesterton knows what time it is. That's why he's disappeared from the reading lists at most elite colleges.
We need to support great books courses and schools that actually engage socratically
http://www.saintconstantine.org/
Thanks for the suggestion. I can see the appeal.
Hear hear! He had something to say about everything and he said it better than everybody else.
The Everlasting Man is a beautiful work. I'd recommend it to every Christian.
Of course then there's Heretics, and Orthodoxy. His biographies of Saints Francis and Thomas Aquinas. All worth reading.
"a demagogue or sophist whose wild gestures were in truth as lifeless as the movement of a dead dog's limbs wavering in the eddying water"
ugh. Maybe this is me.
Maybe it is all of us, at one time or another.
I guess you'll know if you can't go the other direction.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
That's how the left operates.
Don't let the left and the tyranical Democrat politicians get you down. Observe, learn, and grow stronger from the adversity you face against principles you know to be just and true. Choose enlightenment over anger, choose determination over discouragement, thank them for making you stronger and use your newfound wisdom and resolve to stand up for what you believe in and crush those who would harm the country and way of life you hold dear.
There's a lot of wisdom in this thread. We are sending our best tonight.
I'm determined to come out on top and have a good time, even if I'm facing a zombie apocalypse type of scenario. I've already had it easier than 99% of my ancestors, so something spicy is kind of expected.
Someone please make a meme of Aslan with Trump's face.
Great author......great books.
One quote appropriate for these times:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
From a time when people took care of their speech
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
~C.S. Lewis
My pleasure.
Yeah, but this is exactly what is happening to those White guys in Georgia now.
They "had chests", they stood up for their neighbor's property, and now they're getting dragged into Trayvon 2.0.
All because the dead guy is black.
That's not right, it sends a terrible message to the world about the men we (don't) want to create in our midsts.
They get C.S. Lewis and we get Louis C.K.
OG JC
My first time saving a post, wow! well done guys, auto giving me folder to sort them by? bunch of stable geniuses around here!
SOY IS NOT A NEW INVENTION
Living in new york, you arent exposed to many men any more
So happy to see these getting to the top! CS Lewis has so much to offer people and is ripe for a popular resurgence. I love this website
Holy shit, what a thread fam!
A truly great man. An absolute lion in the realm of faith and belief.
The C on his name is for "Chad"
The Abolition of Man had the greatest impact on me of any book I've ever read. And Till We Have Faces. And Mere Christianity. And Surprised by Joy. And The Pilgrims Regress. C.S. Lewis has had a greater impact on my life than any other author.
Truth once again unleashed.
Thank you, Mods!
Go get a Chest!
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. A most incredible book.
Thats fucking beautiful, man
Great quote.
Love your username! đź‘Ť
I regret linking to YouTube here, but I would encourage everybody to listen to the "CS Lewis Doodles." Enormously insightful. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9boiLqIabFgjeaTcx_LLsXrguKfeqLmn ("On Ethics" is a good starting point)
Or as George Carlin put it more succinctly “Garbage in, garbage out.”
Damn. This has been going on for a long time.
Care to explain why you think CS Lewis is a liberal?
Citations? He surely wasn't reformed but he wasn't pagan or occultic either. Mere Christianity is evangelical; Chronicles series is an allegory with Christian truth not a 1 to 1 correspondence with biblical doctrine.
Lewis was friends with L Ron Hubbard and Tolkien...they are all con artists. Conservatives definitely shouldn't be reading this stuff
It's a reason Heinlein thought they were all loons. Not that Heinlein is someone to trust either, but he was smarter than all of them. At least Tolkien was legitimately talented..Lewis and Hubbard simply aren't on his level (and both are religiously corrupt)