I agree. But it's easy to believe the Wuhan flu didn't kill many in China because the Wuhan flu doesn't kill many, anywhere.
The flu usually claims more lives. Especially in crowded, smog filled industrial hellscapes like Wuhan. The PRC is trying to claim that the entire PRC has fewer deaths than NYC. In spite of nearly a quarter of a year where the Communist Party did nothing or worse than nothing while it spread throughout an insanely dense festival in the insanely dense city of Wuhan, and then used barbaric measures like welding in.
Probably total mortality rate goes down under draconian lockdown. You probably find less deaths from bumps to the head in padded cells, too.
There was never any risk with the Wuhan flu. It's a flu at worst, made up entirely at best.
It is surprising that we are supposed to believe that Wuhan COVID killed fewer people in the entirety of the tyrannical, smog ridden, life-is-cheap-when-socialism-is-free PRC than in NYC
There's your problem!!!
You think the numbers coming out the US are accurate!
They're counting shooting deaths as wuhan flu.
The wuhan flu isn't killing many people anywhere, not just in China. The hysterical overreaction is the weapon.
Sure. But it is killing people
Is it though? How would we know? (this is an invitation to dig into the tests, all of which are based off an RNA fragment of indeterminate frequency of occurrence and aren't really testing for anything, never mind for a virus).
I agree. But it's easy to believe the Wuhan flu didn't kill many in China because the Wuhan flu doesn't kill many, anywhere.
Define "many."
Many on the grand scale of things like moderate bugs like SARS or so on? No.
But many as in "dozens of thousands more than that?" Sure.
Probably total mortality rate goes down under draconian lockdown. You probably find less deaths from bumps to the head in padded cells, too.
Except it would mostly go down as a trailing indicator, in other words it'd take some time to show.
There was never any risk with the Wuhan flu. It's a flu at worst, made up entirely at best.
If this were the case they wouldn't have had such trouble containing it.
It's not a world killer, but they're idiots.
There's your problem!!! You think the numbers coming out the US are accurate!
No, I absolutely do not.
However, they are almost certainly more accurate than any numbers out of the CCP.
This is NOT because I have great faith in the honesty of corrupt Leftist bureaucrats or their states.
It is merely a testament to the mind-numbing, all encompassing corruption and pervasive dishonesty in Socialism.
They're counting shooting deaths as wuhan flu.
I am well aware. And CCP counting is almost certainly more egregious, just in the opposite direction.
The wuhan flu isn't killing many people anywhere, not just in China.
Agreed, but even (to use the bogus numbers people are citing for the US) 100K in even a city the size of Wuhan- let alone throughout the CCP itself- would not be "many", certainly not on a grand scale.
The hysterical overreaction is the weapon.
It is A weapon, the most prevalent of several.
Others included spreading infected people, using Chinese subjects abroad to hoard equipment from other countries, and so on.
WuFlu isn't that serious, but that doesn't make the PRC numbers believable. Especially when you count per capita and factor in the delayed reaction.
But above all we should know we're not dealing with a Black Plague..except perhaps a Black Plague of panic and creeping tyranny.
Many on the grand scale of things like moderate bugs like SARS or so on? No.
But many as in "dozens of thousands more than that?" Sure.
The Wuhan flu is on course to be a slightly worse than usual flu season.
And how about those flu and pneumonia deaths this year? Lower than usual?
If this were the case they wouldn't have had such trouble containing it.
If "there was never any risk with the Wuhan flu" were tru, then China wouldn't have had such trouble containing it?
Why are you precluding the possibility of a highly infectious but harmless virus? After all, that is the most likely scenario here.
However, they are almost certainly more accurate than any numbers out of the CCP.
These faked numbers are more accurate than those faked numbers? On what basis?
It is merely a testament to the mind-numbing, all encompassing corruption and pervasive dishonesty in Socialism.
The dishonesty was in China's initial overreaction. They initially set out to cause the world to panic over this year's flu season.
Others included spreading infected people
Spreading panic. There was never any danger from the infected people themselves.
using Chinese subjects abroad to hoard equipment from other countries
Also spreading panic. Create artificial shortages of supplies people think they need desperately (but actually they don't need them at all).
WuFlu isn't that serious, but that doesn't make the PRC numbers believable. Especially when you count per capita and factor in the delayed reaction
But you are trying to take the US' inflated numbers and apply them per capita to China. The US' numbers aren't accurate to begin with. Neither are China's, granted, but that gives us no basis to conclude any of the things you've concluded.
But above all we should know we're not dealing with a Black Plague..except perhaps a Black Plague of panic and creeping tyranny.
If there's one thing I dislike, it's being strawmanned.
The Wuhan flu is on course to be a slightly worse than usual flu season.
Agreed.
And how about those flu and pneumonia deaths this year? Lower than usual?
I am well aware.
If "there was never any risk with the Wuhan flu" were tru, then China wouldn't have had such trouble containing it?
Except they did have such trouble containing it, and we know it did because they maliciously prioritized isolating Wuhan and the surrounding areas from the rest of the PRC while allowing it to go wild abroad.
This is why it's important to keep up to date with both civilian/whistleblower reports from inside Chthe PRC and those from neighboring countries like the ROK and Taiwan.
Why are you precluding the possibility of a highly infectious but harmless virus?
Simple.
Firstly: Flu isn't a harmless virus. It is NOT worth shutting down an entire country or global economy over, but it kills thousands in the US every year, let alone globally.
That's a drop in the freaking bucket on the grand scale of things and those thousands of deaths are a very small fraction of a fraction of those infected, but it takes a real chowderhead to argue it's "harmless." And i know better in part because I've done volunteer orderly work during it.
Secondly: I'm also precluding the possibility of it because a major reason why reason why the Wuhan Virology lab brought ChiCom COVID in was to try and understand its cross species jumping and the threat it posed to people. (Ironic, given how their own shitty workmanship helped it get loose and damage humans extensively).
The most likely scenario is- surprise- it's like the Flu. A highly infectious but only moderately debilitating/SLIGHTLY dangerous disease.
But that's a pattern of infection that can still kill thousands upon thousands of people per year, even without nonsense like the Communists going full Milan and welding the infected in to their own homes with their families or Cuomo and Kaiser Wilhelm shoving the infected in nursing homes.
You don't seem to understand that.
These faked numbers are more accurate than those faked numbers? On what basis?
On the basis of "Do you know LITERALLY ANYTHING about the Chinese Communist Party?"
On the basis of "actually learn something about the average profile of Flu or other High Infectivity low danger diseases and how those can still kill thousands."
On the basis that "frequent dishonesty and bias by private or local authorities cooking the numbers" is less unreliable than "SYSTEMATIC dishonesty in which on top of the locals cooking the books and making it harder to get reliable estimates, the totalitarian regime then takes those already-inaccurate numbers and LIES BLATANTLY ABOUT THEM, persecuting anybody who dares differ."
Even Whitmer the Michigan Hitler hasn't been able to imprison and murder people for daring to raise the alarm about cooked American medical books or overreporting.
This shouldn't be rocket science to someone who isn't a Chinese Communist Shill. The CCP is the most murderous government in the history of PLANET EARTH. To that notable distinction, it is heir to a Marxist-Leninist system of constant dishonesty, suspicion, and Orwellian misgovernment.
As bad as the US is- and it can get pretty bad- it is still FAR less corrupt and dishonest than the PRC HAS. EVER. BEEN.
Do you understand, or do I have to start listing the number of people who were killed to cover this up, often by intentional exposure to the virus along with denial of even basic hygiene or treatment?
The dishonesty was in China's initial overreaction.
You think a totalitarian Communist Party Government limited its dishonesty to the initial overreaction?
Oh you SWEET NAIVE SUMMER CHILD
Again, this is not true. The dishonesty also extended back to the suppression of early reports (when reasonable and sane precautions could have contained it).
It extends forward to shilling about how well the CCP has handled the virus (or did you not notice Communist shills like Tedros and Bill Gates doing so)?
They initially set out to cause the world to panic over this year's flu season.
No, they didn't.
They initially set out to shut up anybody from the Wuhan Virology Labs from telling people there was a threat of a COVID leak, up to and including the public humiliation and then murder of one of their scientists. All in order to "Save Face."
That backfired on them. So then they progressed to hiding the nature and severity of the outbreak, doing things like cutting Wuhan off from contact with the rest of Commie China and welding people inside their homes while simultaneously not caring about people from Wuhan flying to places like Vietnam, spreading the disease. While simultaneously sending news to their citizens abroad to hoard supplies.
Now we're on stage three, with the virus mostly winding down.
Stage three is about justifying the barbaric conduct of the Communist Party, insisting that it bravely led the Chinese people through the Long March of COVID, and that the CCP's leadership is an example the rest of the world can imitate, while trying to keep the shut down foreign economies shut down for as long as possible.
And of course, thoroughly lying about the CCP's culpability in this getting so bad in the first place and the merest SUGGESTION that it did not play the role of glorious light of the world.
You apparently haven't been paying attention to this prior to this last stage three, and it shows.
Spreading panic. There was never any danger from the infected people themselves.
Again, learn how dangerous the flu is. Or basic virology.
Just because you haven't died of it and I haven't died of it doesn't mean people don't die of it. A fair number.
It's not a VERY dangerous disease, but even marginally dangerous diseases kill thousands at a rate few people recognize.
And considering how it was apparently suitable enough for the CCP to EXECUTE A WHISTLEBLOWER by way of ChiCom COVID along with denial of basic medical care, it clearly isn't That little of a threat.
Also spreading panic. Create artificial shortages of supplies people think they need desperately (but actually they don't need them at all).
You think a totalitarian socialist system is capable of that clear thinking and foreplanning? That's cute.
Try learning about the Socialist Calculation Problem and then get back to me.
Chinese Communist hoarding was partially to create shortages and worsen existing ones so that other countries had to come begging to the CCP for imports (at a cost), but the leaks show this was not because the CCP viewed the disease as a non-starter. Very much the opposite.
Again, the fact that they executed a whistleblower using it and had endemic problems in studying it safely in their own Virology Lab shows it.
You're trying to beat reality and the evidence to fit your pre-conceived theory rather than adjusting your theory to comport with evidence. And it's showing.
But you are trying to take the US' inflated numbers and apply them per capita to China. The US' numbers aren't accurate to begin with.
And this is why I dislike being strawmanned and having my claims LIED about.
Because NO, Dear Mate, I AM NOT Taking the US's inflated numbers. I am not even TOUCHING them.
I am mostly taking the numbers you can get from previous, mostly non-memory holed records of the average, yearly flu and applying them to the PRC. And noting that it's utterly retarded to claim that a totalitarian, mass murdering, and pervasively dishonest regime that originated the disease and generally has much more brutal, less competent administration and health facilities than we do would have less COVID deaths than we do.
This isn't rocket science. The CCP is a brutal dictatorship founded on terror and run on lies. It lies far more pervasively than even the most thoroughly corrupted US jurisdiction does (and I can talk ALL DAY about corrupt US jurisdictions like Cook County and NYC).
In addition to the baked in problems of getting reliable numbers in the face of human nature and often perverse incentives, the CCP has the added "bonus" of being both willing to lie on a scale that might- just MIGHT- make Hillary Clinton impressed, as well as the ability to imprison, murder, and censor people much more bluntly than even Mueller, Weissman, and Sullivan can fantasize of.
And yet we're supposed to act as if the CCP's numbers are no less unreliable than those coming out of NYC, which at least can't stray TOO far from the recorded reality by the public?
Yeah, to hell with that theory.
Neither are China's, granted, but that gives us no basis to conclude any of the things you've concluded.
Which is why it's important to do basic freaking research.
Except they did have such trouble containing it, and we know it did because they maliciously prioritized isolating Wuhan and the surrounding areas from the rest of the PRC while allowing it to go wild abroad.
Since the Wuhan flu isn't dangerous, we are left to conclude that the only danger that spread from Wuhan is government overreaction.
If you're trying to spread overreaction, would you try to stop the spread of the virus in earnest?
Firstly: Flu isn't a harmless virus. It is NOT worth shutting down an entire country or global economy over, but it kills thousands in the US every year, let alone globally.
Flu and pneumonia deaths are down this year as Wuhan flu deaths are up. Nothing more dangerous than normal has been released.
Except for mass hysteria, of course. That has spread from its epicentre in Wuhan very nicely.
it takes a real chowderhead to argue it's "harmless."
"Mostly Harmless" IS NOT EQUAL TO "Harmless."
So more people are going to die of pnuemonia and other Wuhan flu related complications this year than normal?
If not, where is the "harm"?
Except, of course, in the mass hysteria.
And i know better in part because I've done volunteer orderly work during it.
Oh, so you have access to more accurate statistics than I do? Could you post them?
There's a reason appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
Secondly: I'm also precluding the possibility of [the wuhan flu being highly infectious, but harmless] because a major reason why reason why the Wuhan Virology lab brought ChiCom COVID in was to try and understand its cross species jumping and the threat it posed to people. (Ironic, given how their own shitty workmanship helped it get loose and damage humans extensively).
So? China is researching bioweapons, this isn't controversial.
The controversial opinion that you seem to hold is that China is any good at it. They're not. Far better parties than them, such as the Russians and the US and the Jesuits, have tried to create a deadly contagious virus. They have all failed.
So, evidently, has China. But they would have already known that, there's no way anyone would have mistaken the Wuhan flu for a dangerous virus. Which is why the plan from the beginning was to spread hysteria. Which they've done nicely.
The most likely scenario is- surprise- it's like the Flu. A highly infectious but only moderately debilitating/SLIGHTLY dangerous disease.
So where are all the moderately debilitated Wuhan flu patients? Where are the elevated rates of death?
Will you refer me back to your experience as a volunteer again, instead of referring to statistics and data?
But that's a pattern of infection that can still kill thousands upon thousands of people per year, even without nonsense like the Communists going full Milan and welding the infected in to their own homes with their families or Cuomo and Kaiser Wilhelm shoving the infected in nursing homes.
You don't seem to understand that.
Here, I will highlight the most important word in the above statement:
can
Fuck off with these shitty projections. Let us discuss actual data, in which nothing you are saying above has come true.
On the basis of "Do you know LITERALLY ANYTHING about the Chinese Communist Party?"
On the basis of "actually learn something about the average profile of Flu or other High Infectivity low danger diseases and how those can still kill thousands."
On the basis that "frequent dishonesty and bias by private or local authorities cooking the numbers" is less unreliable than "SYSTEMATIC dishonesty in which on top of the locals cooking the books and making it harder to get reliable estimates, the totalitarian regime then takes those already-inaccurate numbers and LIES BLATANTLY ABOUT THEM, persecuting anybody who dares differ."
Even Whitmer the Michigan Hitler hasn't been able to imprison and murder people for daring to raise the alarm about cooked American medical books or overreporting.
That's exactly what the CCP did.
None of this answered my question, which was "why do you trust faked US data over faked Chinese data"? They're both fake.
This is a normal flu season. Unless the Wuhan flu has somehow cured the flu and replaced it with a virus which, for all intents and purposes, is the flu. But I'm going to go with Occam on that one.
This shouldn't be rocket science to someone who isn't a Chinese Communist Shill. The CCP is the most murderous government in the history of PLANET EARTH. To that notable distinction, it is heir to a Marxist-Leninist system of constant dishonesty, suspicion, and Orwellian misgovernment.
As bad as the US is- and it can get pretty bad- it is still FAR less corrupt and dishonest than the PRC HAS. EVER. BEEN.
Do you understand, or do I have to start listing the number of people who were killed to cover this up, often by intentional exposure to the virus along with denial of even basic hygiene or treatment?
You're getting hyperemotional, which is how you've concluded I'm a PRC shill. Fucking kek.
You think a totalitarian Communist Party Government limited its dishonesty to the initial overreaction?
Oh you SWEET NAIVE SUMMER CHILD
Again, this is not true. The dishonesty also extended back to the suppression of early reports (when reasonable and sane precautions could have contained it).
It extends forward to shilling about how well the CCP has handled the virus (or did you not notice Communist shills like Tedros and Bill Gates doing so)?
No, retard, I don't think the CPC's dishonesty is limited in any way. However, I want to re-direct this conversation back away from your manifest emotions, and towards the data.
Where, in the data, is your assertion of a dangerous virus from Wuhan borne out?
It's the flu. The hysteria is the real danger.
No, they didn't.
They initially set out to shut up anybody from the Wuhan Virology Labs from telling people there was a threat of a COVID leak, up to and including the public humiliation and then murder of one of their scientists. All in order to "Save Face."
That backfired on them. So then they progressed to hiding the nature and severity of the outbreak, doing things like cutting Wuhan off from contact with the rest of Commie China and welding people inside their homes while simultaneously not caring about people from Wuhan flying to places like Vietnam, spreading the disease. While simultaneously sending news to their citizens abroad to hoard supplies.
Now we're on stage three, with the virus mostly winding down.
Stage three is about justifying the barbaric conduct of the Communist Party, insisting that it bravely led the Chinese people through the Long March of COVID, and that the CCP's leadership is an example the rest of the world can imitate, while trying to keep the shut down foreign economies shut down for as long as possible.
And of course, thoroughly lying about the CCP's culpability in this getting so bad in the first place and the merest >SUGGESTION that it did not play the role of glorious light of the world.
You apparently haven't been paying attention to this prior to this last stage three, and it shows.
So your theory is that the CCP somehow mistook the harmless Wuhan flu for a dangerous virus, then tried to spread it all over the world before realizing it's actually harmless?
China took the regular flu. It reacted to it in a totally insane manner, which made everyone else wonder if there was something to the virus which justified that reaction. It acted in a suspicious manner intended to make us worry, sending travellers from Wuhan everywhere in the world except China. It banked on its lack of credibility by telling us all there was nothing to worry about (which naturally made us worry more). And now that we're all in a panic over nothing, they're advancing their interests in HK, India, Taiwan, the South Pacific, and elsewhere.
Your theory only makes sense if the Wuhan flu were dangerous, which it isn't, or if there were some reason to believe the Wuhan flu were dangerous, which there never was to begin with.
Do you remember all those CPC videos of people collapsing because of the virus? Why would they make things up about the virus if it were dangerous? They could have just told the truth about the danger of the virus.
Again, learn how dangerous the flu is. Or basic virology.
Just because you haven't died of it and I haven't died of it doesn't mean people don't die of it. A fair number.
It's not a VERY dangerous disease, but even marginally dangerous diseases kill thousands at a rate few people recognize.
And considering how it was apparently suitable enough for the CCP to EXECUTE A WHISTLEBLOWER by way of ChiCom COVID along with denial of basic medical care, it clearly isn't That little of a threat.
Anon. This year's flu season would have occurred with or without China's theatrics in Wuhan. No further biological danger or risk was added to the world. We're all just as likely to die of this year's flu as we have been for previous years.
The only added risk is from the pandemic of hysteria, which is the CPC's only weapon here (since the Wuhan flu is harmless).
You think a totalitarian socialist system is capable of that clear thinking and foreplanning? That's cute.
You think the leaders of China are stupid because they advocate socialism for the Chinese masses?
Chinese Communist hoarding was partially to create shortages and worsen existing ones so that other countries had to come begging to the CCP for imports (at a cost), but the leaks show this was not because the CCP viewed the disease as a non-starter. Very much the opposite.
The leaks. From Communist China.
The entire panic about the Wuhan flu was leaked intentionally.
Again, the fact that they executed a whistleblower using it and had endemic problems in studying it safely in their own Virology Lab shows it.
Doctors have been dying under suspicious circumstances everywhere since the Wuhan flu began. Probably for noticing it's just a flu.
You're trying to beat reality and the evidence to fit your pre-conceived theory rather than adjusting your theory to comport with evidence. And it's showing.
Fucking hilarious. The guy who insists the Wuhan flu is dangerous and harmful, but can't produce a single shred of evidence beyond "I'm a VoLuNtEeR, Ok??", now accuses me of trying to fit the facts to a pre-conceived theory.
I am mostly taking the numbers you can get from previous, mostly non-memory holed records of the average, yearly flu and applying them to the PRC. And noting that it's utterly retarded to claim that a totalitarian, mass murdering, and pervasively dishonest regime that originated the disease and generally has much more brutal, less competent administration and health facilities than we do would have less COVID deaths than we do.
Ok, but where in this do you get the idea that the Wuhan flu is killing more people than the regular flu?
Because it isn't. Nowhere on earth. Not even China.
I agree. But it's easy to believe the Wuhan flu didn't kill many in China because the Wuhan flu doesn't kill many, anywhere.
Probably total mortality rate goes down under draconian lockdown. You probably find less deaths from bumps to the head in padded cells, too.
There was never any risk with the Wuhan flu. It's a flu at worst, made up entirely at best.
There's your problem!!!
You think the numbers coming out the US are accurate!
They're counting shooting deaths as wuhan flu.
The wuhan flu isn't killing many people anywhere, not just in China. The hysterical overreaction is the weapon.
Is it though? How would we know? (this is an invitation to dig into the tests, all of which are based off an RNA fragment of indeterminate frequency of occurrence and aren't really testing for anything, never mind for a virus).
Define "many."
Many on the grand scale of things like moderate bugs like SARS or so on? No.
But many as in "dozens of thousands more than that?" Sure.
Except it would mostly go down as a trailing indicator, in other words it'd take some time to show.
If this were the case they wouldn't have had such trouble containing it.
It's not a world killer, but they're idiots.
No, I absolutely do not.
However, they are almost certainly more accurate than any numbers out of the CCP.
This is NOT because I have great faith in the honesty of corrupt Leftist bureaucrats or their states.
It is merely a testament to the mind-numbing, all encompassing corruption and pervasive dishonesty in Socialism.
I am well aware. And CCP counting is almost certainly more egregious, just in the opposite direction.
Agreed, but even (to use the bogus numbers people are citing for the US) 100K in even a city the size of Wuhan- let alone throughout the CCP itself- would not be "many", certainly not on a grand scale.
It is A weapon, the most prevalent of several.
Others included spreading infected people, using Chinese subjects abroad to hoard equipment from other countries, and so on.
WuFlu isn't that serious, but that doesn't make the PRC numbers believable. Especially when you count per capita and factor in the delayed reaction.
But above all we should know we're not dealing with a Black Plague..except perhaps a Black Plague of panic and creeping tyranny.
The Wuhan flu is on course to be a slightly worse than usual flu season.
And how about those flu and pneumonia deaths this year? Lower than usual?
If "there was never any risk with the Wuhan flu" were tru, then China wouldn't have had such trouble containing it?
Why are you precluding the possibility of a highly infectious but harmless virus? After all, that is the most likely scenario here.
These faked numbers are more accurate than those faked numbers? On what basis?
The dishonesty was in China's initial overreaction. They initially set out to cause the world to panic over this year's flu season.
Spreading panic. There was never any danger from the infected people themselves.
Also spreading panic. Create artificial shortages of supplies people think they need desperately (but actually they don't need them at all).
But you are trying to take the US' inflated numbers and apply them per capita to China. The US' numbers aren't accurate to begin with. Neither are China's, granted, but that gives us no basis to conclude any of the things you've concluded.
Agreed. And of hysteria.
If there's one thing I dislike, it's being strawmanned.
Agreed.
I am well aware.
Except they did have such trouble containing it, and we know it did because they maliciously prioritized isolating Wuhan and the surrounding areas from the rest of the PRC while allowing it to go wild abroad.
This is why it's important to keep up to date with both civilian/whistleblower reports from inside Chthe PRC and those from neighboring countries like the ROK and Taiwan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGM7t_lpQso
Here's one bit of the first.
Simple.
Firstly: Flu isn't a harmless virus. It is NOT worth shutting down an entire country or global economy over, but it kills thousands in the US every year, let alone globally.
That's a drop in the freaking bucket on the grand scale of things and those thousands of deaths are a very small fraction of a fraction of those infected, but it takes a real chowderhead to argue it's "harmless." And i know better in part because I've done volunteer orderly work during it.
Secondly: I'm also precluding the possibility of it because a major reason why reason why the Wuhan Virology lab brought ChiCom COVID in was to try and understand its cross species jumping and the threat it posed to people. (Ironic, given how their own shitty workmanship helped it get loose and damage humans extensively).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLp8CHeKQkI
"Mostly Harmless" IS NOT EQUAL TO "Harmless."
No, it isn't.
The most likely scenario is- surprise- it's like the Flu. A highly infectious but only moderately debilitating/SLIGHTLY dangerous disease.
But that's a pattern of infection that can still kill thousands upon thousands of people per year, even without nonsense like the Communists going full Milan and welding the infected in to their own homes with their families or Cuomo and Kaiser Wilhelm shoving the infected in nursing homes.
You don't seem to understand that.
On the basis of "Do you know LITERALLY ANYTHING about the Chinese Communist Party?"
On the basis of "actually learn something about the average profile of Flu or other High Infectivity low danger diseases and how those can still kill thousands."
On the basis that "frequent dishonesty and bias by private or local authorities cooking the numbers" is less unreliable than "SYSTEMATIC dishonesty in which on top of the locals cooking the books and making it harder to get reliable estimates, the totalitarian regime then takes those already-inaccurate numbers and LIES BLATANTLY ABOUT THEM, persecuting anybody who dares differ."
Even Whitmer the Michigan Hitler hasn't been able to imprison and murder people for daring to raise the alarm about cooked American medical books or overreporting.
That's exactly what the CCP did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU&list=PLGVxWL17abn6F5jbtE18EJcFS8tjZoCf_&index=6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-GVcfP1zrg
This shouldn't be rocket science to someone who isn't a Chinese Communist Shill. The CCP is the most murderous government in the history of PLANET EARTH. To that notable distinction, it is heir to a Marxist-Leninist system of constant dishonesty, suspicion, and Orwellian misgovernment.
As bad as the US is- and it can get pretty bad- it is still FAR less corrupt and dishonest than the PRC HAS. EVER. BEEN.
Do you understand, or do I have to start listing the number of people who were killed to cover this up, often by intentional exposure to the virus along with denial of even basic hygiene or treatment?
You think a totalitarian Communist Party Government limited its dishonesty to the initial overreaction?
Oh you SWEET NAIVE SUMMER CHILD
Again, this is not true. The dishonesty also extended back to the suppression of early reports (when reasonable and sane precautions could have contained it).
It extends forward to shilling about how well the CCP has handled the virus (or did you not notice Communist shills like Tedros and Bill Gates doing so)?
No, they didn't.
They initially set out to shut up anybody from the Wuhan Virology Labs from telling people there was a threat of a COVID leak, up to and including the public humiliation and then murder of one of their scientists. All in order to "Save Face."
That backfired on them. So then they progressed to hiding the nature and severity of the outbreak, doing things like cutting Wuhan off from contact with the rest of Commie China and welding people inside their homes while simultaneously not caring about people from Wuhan flying to places like Vietnam, spreading the disease. While simultaneously sending news to their citizens abroad to hoard supplies.
Now we're on stage three, with the virus mostly winding down.
Stage three is about justifying the barbaric conduct of the Communist Party, insisting that it bravely led the Chinese people through the Long March of COVID, and that the CCP's leadership is an example the rest of the world can imitate, while trying to keep the shut down foreign economies shut down for as long as possible.
And of course, thoroughly lying about the CCP's culpability in this getting so bad in the first place and the merest SUGGESTION that it did not play the role of glorious light of the world.
You apparently haven't been paying attention to this prior to this last stage three, and it shows.
Again, learn how dangerous the flu is. Or basic virology.
Just because you haven't died of it and I haven't died of it doesn't mean people don't die of it. A fair number.
It's not a VERY dangerous disease, but even marginally dangerous diseases kill thousands at a rate few people recognize.
And considering how it was apparently suitable enough for the CCP to EXECUTE A WHISTLEBLOWER by way of ChiCom COVID along with denial of basic medical care, it clearly isn't That little of a threat.
You think a totalitarian socialist system is capable of that clear thinking and foreplanning? That's cute.
Try learning about the Socialist Calculation Problem and then get back to me.
Chinese Communist hoarding was partially to create shortages and worsen existing ones so that other countries had to come begging to the CCP for imports (at a cost), but the leaks show this was not because the CCP viewed the disease as a non-starter. Very much the opposite.
Again, the fact that they executed a whistleblower using it and had endemic problems in studying it safely in their own Virology Lab shows it.
You're trying to beat reality and the evidence to fit your pre-conceived theory rather than adjusting your theory to comport with evidence. And it's showing.
And this is why I dislike being strawmanned and having my claims LIED about.
Because NO, Dear Mate, I AM NOT Taking the US's inflated numbers. I am not even TOUCHING them.
I am mostly taking the numbers you can get from previous, mostly non-memory holed records of the average, yearly flu and applying them to the PRC. And noting that it's utterly retarded to claim that a totalitarian, mass murdering, and pervasively dishonest regime that originated the disease and generally has much more brutal, less competent administration and health facilities than we do would have less COVID deaths than we do.
This isn't rocket science. The CCP is a brutal dictatorship founded on terror and run on lies. It lies far more pervasively than even the most thoroughly corrupted US jurisdiction does (and I can talk ALL DAY about corrupt US jurisdictions like Cook County and NYC).
In addition to the baked in problems of getting reliable numbers in the face of human nature and often perverse incentives, the CCP has the added "bonus" of being both willing to lie on a scale that might- just MIGHT- make Hillary Clinton impressed, as well as the ability to imprison, murder, and censor people much more bluntly than even Mueller, Weissman, and Sullivan can fantasize of.
And yet we're supposed to act as if the CCP's numbers are no less unreliable than those coming out of NYC, which at least can't stray TOO far from the recorded reality by the public?
Yeah, to hell with that theory.
Which is why it's important to do basic freaking research.
Starting with timelining things.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200331133246/https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/
You apparently haven't done that. And you think you have the justification to lecture and talk down to me?
Since the Wuhan flu isn't dangerous, we are left to conclude that the only danger that spread from Wuhan is government overreaction.
If you're trying to spread overreaction, would you try to stop the spread of the virus in earnest?
Flu and pneumonia deaths are down this year as Wuhan flu deaths are up. Nothing more dangerous than normal has been released.
Except for mass hysteria, of course. That has spread from its epicentre in Wuhan very nicely.
So more people are going to die of pnuemonia and other Wuhan flu related complications this year than normal?
If not, where is the "harm"?
Except, of course, in the mass hysteria.
Oh, so you have access to more accurate statistics than I do? Could you post them?
There's a reason appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
So? China is researching bioweapons, this isn't controversial.
The controversial opinion that you seem to hold is that China is any good at it. They're not. Far better parties than them, such as the Russians and the US and the Jesuits, have tried to create a deadly contagious virus. They have all failed.
So, evidently, has China. But they would have already known that, there's no way anyone would have mistaken the Wuhan flu for a dangerous virus. Which is why the plan from the beginning was to spread hysteria. Which they've done nicely.
So where are all the moderately debilitated Wuhan flu patients? Where are the elevated rates of death?
Will you refer me back to your experience as a volunteer again, instead of referring to statistics and data?
Here, I will highlight the most important word in the above statement:
Fuck off with these shitty projections. Let us discuss actual data, in which nothing you are saying above has come true.
None of this answered my question, which was "why do you trust faked US data over faked Chinese data"? They're both fake.
This is a normal flu season. Unless the Wuhan flu has somehow cured the flu and replaced it with a virus which, for all intents and purposes, is the flu. But I'm going to go with Occam on that one.
You're getting hyperemotional, which is how you've concluded I'm a PRC shill. Fucking kek.
No, retard, I don't think the CPC's dishonesty is limited in any way. However, I want to re-direct this conversation back away from your manifest emotions, and towards the data.
Where, in the data, is your assertion of a dangerous virus from Wuhan borne out?
It's the flu. The hysteria is the real danger.
So your theory is that the CCP somehow mistook the harmless Wuhan flu for a dangerous virus, then tried to spread it all over the world before realizing it's actually harmless?
China took the regular flu. It reacted to it in a totally insane manner, which made everyone else wonder if there was something to the virus which justified that reaction. It acted in a suspicious manner intended to make us worry, sending travellers from Wuhan everywhere in the world except China. It banked on its lack of credibility by telling us all there was nothing to worry about (which naturally made us worry more). And now that we're all in a panic over nothing, they're advancing their interests in HK, India, Taiwan, the South Pacific, and elsewhere.
Your theory only makes sense if the Wuhan flu were dangerous, which it isn't, or if there were some reason to believe the Wuhan flu were dangerous, which there never was to begin with.
Do you remember all those CPC videos of people collapsing because of the virus? Why would they make things up about the virus if it were dangerous? They could have just told the truth about the danger of the virus.
Anon. This year's flu season would have occurred with or without China's theatrics in Wuhan. No further biological danger or risk was added to the world. We're all just as likely to die of this year's flu as we have been for previous years.
The only added risk is from the pandemic of hysteria, which is the CPC's only weapon here (since the Wuhan flu is harmless).
You think the leaders of China are stupid because they advocate socialism for the Chinese masses?
The leaks. From Communist China.
The entire panic about the Wuhan flu was leaked intentionally.
Doctors have been dying under suspicious circumstances everywhere since the Wuhan flu began. Probably for noticing it's just a flu.
Fucking hilarious. The guy who insists the Wuhan flu is dangerous and harmful, but can't produce a single shred of evidence beyond "I'm a VoLuNtEeR, Ok??", now accuses me of trying to fit the facts to a pre-conceived theory.
Ok, but where in this do you get the idea that the Wuhan flu is killing more people than the regular flu?
Because it isn't. Nowhere on earth. Not even China.
Where does this timeline show that the Wuhan flu is any more dangerous than the regular flu?
To sum it up:
The wuhan flu is harmless, since it's indistinguishable from a regular flu season. The only danger is in overreaction.