I get tired of intellectually dishonest runarounds, and that is what you are doing.
Since the Wuhan flu isn't dangerous, we are left to conclude that the only danger that spread from Wuhan is government overreaction.
Circular "Logic" that fails to prove its necessary assumption: that Wuhan Flu isn't dangerous.
It is. It's just not ultra-dangerous and has a high infectivity, low mortality profile like the Flu. And I hate to tell you this, the Flu's dangerous. Primarily to those in certain at risk demographics (like the old, the young, people with breathing problems, and so forth). But you do have a fair few healthy-as-a-bull people keel over and die of it every year.
That's dangerous, but it's not existential. Take reasonable precautions (which are usually less intrusive than the Masked Mooks demand) and soldier on so that even when people die, most people and the society survive more or less unhindered.
That's the problem. You're acting as if ChiCom Flu is not merely no more dangerous than the Flu (which is correct, and if anything even less dangerous with proper treatment since as the Hydro-Zinc Cocktail), but far far less.
If you're trying to spread overreaction, would you try to stop the spread of the virus in earnest?
"That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
You have provided absolutely zero evidence that the initial response of the CCP was to SPREAD overreaction. Indeed, the evidence I have presented shows that their initial reaction was to do the exact INVERSE of spreading overreaction to different countries: it was to impose UNDER-REACTION on Wuhan by dint of locking up whistle-blowers cutting news, and generally acting as if everything was "Fine." Initially this was just the local party bosses trying to avoid "rumors" (protip: tyrannical assholes hate "rumors") and avoid being blamed.
But when the infection at Wuhan blew up too hard for them to keep a lid on, the PRC decided not to spread overreaction, but to spread the disease. And one of the ways they did this was about LYING about how the disease spread and how prolific it was.
So they spent the crucial breakout period of the disease doing the exact Inverse of spreading Overreaction. First domestically due to the CYA/Saving Face mentality of the Communist Party and the local authorities' concern they might get scapegoated for what happened (as they were), and Secondly internationally as the ChiComs and their fellow shills lied about the gravity of the disease and shut down the based, knowledgeable people trying to warn so this virus could be gotten in hand such as Taiwan.
And no, it's not a coincidence that Taiwan was one of those screaming about the threat of this thing the loudest while its death and infection rates are so low and its
"lockdown" measures are so lax. Because An Ounce of Prevention is worth a Pound of Cure. And being proactive and GETTING ON a disease's trace means you can limit how far it spreads and how much damage it does.
The CCP lying and trying to spread UNDERreaction helped this virus cause the damage it did, both in terms of those directly affected and in the retarded-psychopath overreach by governmental goons claiming "We will totally relinquish these emergency powers."
Trying to spread OVERreaction- like the CCP and co are doing now- was late in the game, now that the virus has spread about as far and as deep as it's going to this season, herd immunity's building up, and the West and ChiComChina's other rivals are starting to reopen.
Flu and pneumonia deaths are down this year as Wuhan flu deaths are up. Nothing more dangerous than normal has been released.
Agreed.
So we can agree that WuFlu IS dangerous, just a mundane kind of dangerous like what a functional society deals with every single day.
Except for mass hysteria, of course. That has spread from its epicentre in Wuhan very nicely.
Again, no it wasn't. You're trying to marry your pet theory without providing evidence.
Mass hysteria didn't spread out from an epicenter in Wuhan. Mass hysteria spread out from almost every OTHER Place from a combination of sane and reasonable warnings (like those by Taiwan) being blown out of proportion, and unscrupulous BS from power grabby scum like Fauxci and the Imperial College Scammer.
The CCP was a late convert to spreading the gospel of mass hysteria, in part because they were worried about it rebounding into their face as people asked "Where did this come from?" (and for instance having punitive action like what Trump is proposing levied on them) or Chinese people saying "What did you do about this?!?", and in part because other left wing tyrants elsewhere beat them to it. The CCP's spreading it NOW because it has no real benefit pretending that nothing happened, but there is benefit in keeping other countries shut down as long as it can and helping their petty tyrants usurp as much power as they can.
Put it simply:
Commie Party at the start: "What are you talking about, a leak? YOU ARE A DOUBLE PLUS BAD WRONGTHINKER. Apologize to the party for daring to say there's a threat! Oh, and by the way enjoy being thrown in a dank cell with COVID...."
Commie Party Stage 2: "EVERYTHING IS FINE! Do not think. Consume. China is cleanest race. Ignore subhuman mongrels like Taiwan. No evidence of human to human transmissability! There's no NEED To stop flights!"
Commie Party Stage 3: "In the DARKEST OF DAYS as the decadent West allowed the Black Death to spread and destroy its society, the Heroic Peoples' Party arose to quell rumor mongering and bring effective treatment, thus showing the Communist Party is ordained by Marx-Heaven to rule foreigner. So while China can tentatively reopen, the barbaric savages abroad would be insane to, since they are totally more afflicted than we are! Praise Chairman Xi, Helm man of destiny!"
This is why I chew you out for not timelining this.
So more people are going to die of pnuemonia and other Wuhan flu related complications this year than normal?
I don't know. If I had to wager a guess I would say "probably, marginally", most likely because even the most dishonest and thoroughly corrupt Western globalist medical hack in the West isn't claiming that Literally NOBODY has died of plain old Flu this season even as they shamelessly stripe mine most of those deaths to relabel as Coronavirus. Meaning that they still acknowledge Flu deaths are a separate thing, even if they have "mysteriously" decreased due to mislabeling them as WuFlu deaths (or WuFlu "Stealing" those deaths naturally).
So you PROBABLY have a small increase in ChiCom COVID deaths put on top of the bog standard "Flu Season + Other deaths."
If not, where is the "harm"? Except, of course, in the mass hysteria.
Simple.
If my theory is correct and there is indeed a slight increase in overall deaths from WuFlu mingling with other deaths, then the provable harm is from the excess.
And if my theory ISN'T correct, the harm is the background statistical noise of more or less routine death. Still harm, but "within normal parameters."
Neither of which are as damaging as the mass hysteria or Swamp State usurpation we've seen gutting our economy and civic culture that were Also spurred by this thing (But of course, by your logic we could point to Swampy corruption and tyranny and economic sabotage going well before even Wuhan had Wuhan Flu and say "Well, what's the harm? It was already happening" while ignoring the intensification of it). But still worth noting.
Oh, so you have access to more accurate statistics than I do? Could you post them?
No, I don't have access to more accurate statistics than you do, though I do know how to find what statistics we have acess to more easily.
The difference is I can interpret them better.
Because I both have some minimal medical experience, and because I'm not a credulous idiot.
Which is why you're caught screaming about "Why are China's death numbers so hard to believe?" and "These faked numbers are more accurate than those faked numbers? On what basis?"
Because apparently you've never read 1984 or understand how pervasive Commie book cooking is, much less how either side arrived at their numbers.
The wrong numbers of COVID deaths and infections in the US, UK, and other nations are based off of normal recording- along with "normal" mistakes like miscounting, double counting, or massaging the numbers to get them low- that are then skewed after the fact using number games, such as slapping normal Flu deaths as WuFlu deaths.
But the wrong numbers for COVID deaths and infections from the CCP have the "added bonus" of coming from a totalitarian dictatorship that is not shy about COMPLETELY INVENTING numbers from whole cloth and is not about to provide any evidence or external review whatsoever. And who are willing to do stuff like vanish people into literal incinerators in the same way that they lie about the US having the largest per capita prison population by pretending that Commie Party Laogai and secretive Blacksites don't exist.
That's the basis for why the West's faked numbers are more accurate than ChiCom faked numbers. As you'd know if you thought about it for five seconds.
There's a reason appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
Secondly: You're confusing the Argument from Authority fallacy with assessing information gotten by and presented by "So-Called" Experts. Which one can then analyze.
For instance, this is why I am so confident dismissing the CCP numbers, which have a much, much higher probability of simply being invented from whole cloth than our own, in spite of both being wrong.
Put it simply: there's a qualitative difference between saying a Turkey is a Duck, and saying a Turkey is a Black Hole. Both are wrong, but the former is less wrong than the latter. And the latter indicates that someone isn't even looking at or knowledgeable of the actual information.
So? China is researching bioweapons, this isn't controversial.
Except the Wuhan COVID research was almost certainly not Bioweapons research.
Firstly because it was the study of a naturally occurring disease, secondly because even in its current form its lethality is so low (and the CCP showed so little ability to control it, hence the staff infections Laowhy's video covered), and thirdly because Most Bio Research isn't Bioweapons Research.
For the same reason your average GMO isn't trying to create the next biological nuke. That stuff has other utilities than trying to come up with yet another rare white elephant doomsday weapon that is a niche at best.
Circular "Logic" that fails to prove its necessary assumption: that Wuhan Flu isn't dangerous.
That plus the stats. Don't forget the stats!
It is [the wuhan flu is dangerous]
Then where are the statistics proving this?
It's just not ultra-dangerous and has a high infectivity, low mortality profile like the Flu.
It also reduced deaths caused by the flu! Amazing!
And I hate to tell you this, the Flu's dangerous. Primarily to those in certain at risk demographics (like the old, the young, people with breathing problems, and so forth). But you do have a fair few healthy-as-a-bull people keel over and die of it every year.
But the flu isn't a danger that we can do anything about. China hasn't added any actual danger to living this year, since we've always had flu seasons, and they've always killed as many people as this year's flu season is killing.
Disagree? Feel free to point out the statistics showing this year's flu season (including the Wuhan flu) is meaningfully worse than other years.
That's the problem. You're acting as if ChiCom Flu is not merely no more dangerous than the Flu (which is correct, and if anything even less dangerous with proper treatment since as the Hydro-Zinc Cocktail), but far far less.
My claim is that it is the flu. How could the flu be less dangerous than the flu?
"That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
You have provided absolutely zero evidence that the initial response of the CCP was to SPREAD overreaction. Indeed, the evidence I have presented shows that their initial reaction was to do the exact INVERSE of spreading overreaction to different countries: it was to impose UNDER-REACTION on Wuhan by dint of locking up whistle-blowers cutting news, and generally acting as if everything was "Fine." Initially this was just the local party bosses trying to avoid "rumors" (protip: tyrannical assholes hate "rumors") and avoid being blamed.
My basis for concluding such is the fact that the Wuhan flu is harmless, and could never have been mistaken for something harmless.
What kind of master plan is it to spread around a harmless virus?
Far better and more effective to spread hysteria. Which is exactly what they've done. And there's your evidence.
Do you have any evidence at all that anyone, anywhere, had any reasonable basis at any time to think the Wuhan flu was dangerous?
But when the infection at Wuhan blew up too hard for them to keep a lid on, the PRC decided not to spread overreaction, but to spread the disease. And one of the ways they did this was about LYING about how the disease spread and how prolific it was.
But it didn't blow up in China. We can infer this from the fact that it hasn't blown up anywhere else. At all.
If you disagree, please point out the place where Wuhan flu deaths significatly outpaced normal flu deaths. Then we can use that data to interpolate China's deaths. All the data for every affected country indicates this is just another normal (maybe slightly worse, but we can't even conclude that because of gunshot wounds being counted as Wuhan flu deaths) flu season.
And that's Literally. As in the Commie Ethiopian shill at the head of WHO lying through his teeth claiming there was no evidence of human to human transmission even though by this point the CCP must have known.
And the Communist propagandists continued to parrot this "Nothing to see Here, everything is in Order" while smearing or downplaying reports from nations that aren't Totalitarian Shitholes in order to sabotage other nations and give their state-sponsored looters the time to hoard our goods.
So they spent the crucial breakout period of the disease doing the exact Inverse of spreading Overreaction.
If China immediately told everyone "this virus is dangerous, we should stop all travel and try to prevent its spread", then countries would have stopped travel from China and there would be no reason to fear the virus having spread from China.
Unless they initially played "dumb" and allowed international travel, there would be no basis upon which to spread hysteria. And if there were no hysteria, China wouldn't have cover of hysteria to make the moves it's making in HK and India and the South China, etc.
And, of course, we must keep in mind the overarching fact: the Wuhan flu is harmless, just like every flu season.
And no, it's not a coincidence that Taiwan was one of those screaming about the threat of this thing the loudest while its death and infection rates are so low and its "lockdown" measures are so lax. Because An Ounce of Prevention is worth a Pound of Cure. And being proactive and GETTING ON a disease's trace means you can limit how far it spreads and how much damage it does.
Which country failed to implement an ounce of prevention, and is now wishing ruefully it had done so instead of having to implement a pound of cure?
No country, anywhere on earth, has experienced the Wuhan flu as anything worse than a regular flu season. The additional damage caused is ENTIRELY a result of overreaction.
If you disagree, feel free to post the country that was hit significantly harder by the Wuhan flu than that country gets hit by every year's flu season. I've asked several times, and you keep failing to provide this.
The CCP lying and trying to spread UNDERreaction helped this virus cause the damage it did, both in terms of those directly affected and in the retarded-psychopath overreach by governmental goons claiming "We will totally relinquish these emergency powers."
The virus didn't cause any damage that wouldn't have happened with this year's flu season, though. And this year's flu season wasn't caused by China. And it couldn't have been prevented.
The only thing the CCP has done is spread a pandemic of hysteria.
Trying to spread OVERreaction- like the CCP and co are doing now- was late in the game, now that the virus has spread about as far and as deep as it's going to this season, herd immunity's building up, and the West and ChiComChina's other rivals are starting to reopen.
How could they sell an overreaction if they hadn't initially allowed travel abroad? If no one had travelled from Wuhan to spread the putative virus, what would we be overreacting to?
Agreed.
So we can agree that WuFlu IS dangerous, just a mundane kind of dangerous like what a functional society deals with every single day.
Fucking lead with this next time. Sheesh.
Again, no it wasn't. You're trying to marry your pet theory without providing evidence.
Mass hysteria didn't spread out from an epicenter in Wuhan. Mass hysteria spread out from almost every OTHER Place from a combination of sane and reasonable warnings (like those by Taiwan) being blown out of proportion, and unscrupulous BS from power grabby scum like Fauxci and the Imperial College Scammer.
The CCP was a late convert to spreading the gospel of mass hysteria, in part because they were worried about it rebounding into their face as people asked "Where did this come from?" (and for instance having punitive action like what Trump is proposing levied on them) or Chinese people saying "What did you do about this?!?", and in part because other left wing tyrants elsewhere beat them to it. The CCP's spreading it NOW because it has no real benefit pretending that nothing happened, but there is benefit in keeping other countries shut down as long as it can and helping their petty tyrants usurp as much power as they can.
Wrong. The mass hysteria was in response to the half-assed lockdown of Wuhan, which had all the film and television cues for a serious pandemic. We saw China kneecap itself and wondered if they had a reason to do so. They didn't have a direct reason, since the Wuhan flu is harmless. So the only reason they did what they did was to spread panic.
But how could they cause us to panic if they had locked Wuhan down diligently? No one with the putative virus would be here to panic about.
Commie Party at the start: "What are you talking about, a leak? YOU ARE A DOUBLE PLUS BAD WRONGTHINKER. Apologize to the party for daring to say there's a threat! Oh, and by the way enjoy being thrown in a dank cell with COVID...."
How do we know the whistleblowers were put down for saying the Wuhan flu is a threat? They might have been saying "guys, this is weird, we're reacting like lunatics to a flu season." That message getting out would spoil the whole thing.
Commie Party Stage 2: "EVERYTHING IS FINE! Do not think. Consume. China is cleanest race. Ignore subhuman mongrels like Taiwan. No evidence of human to human transmissability! There's no NEED To stop flights!"
How else would "infected" individuals get all over the planet? If they hadn't, we'd have nothing to overreact about.
Commie Party Stage 3: "In the DARKEST OF DAYS as the decadent West allowed the Black Death to spread and destroy its society, the Heroic Peoples' Party arose to quell rumor mongering and bring effective treatment, thus showing the Communist Party is ordained by Marx-Heaven to rule foreigner. So while China can tentatively reopen, the barbaric savages abroad would be insane to, since they are totally more afflicted than we are! Praise Chairman Xi, Helm man of destiny!"
This is why I chew you out for not timelining this.
If China had diligently locked down Wuhan, we would have nothing to panic about. Since panic is the only risk here, and is also the only weaponized portion of the Wuhan flu episode, this reaction at this stage was necessary. Else panic couldn't be spread.
This is why I repeat the same question over and over. You haven't played through the chess game. If China did as you propose, they wouldn't have achieved their ends.
I don't know. If I had to wager a guess I would say "probably, marginally", most likely because even the most dishonest and thoroughly corrupt Western globalist medical hack in the West isn't claiming that Literally NOBODY has died of plain old Flu this season even as they shamelessly stripe mine most of those deaths to relabel as Coronavirus. Meaning that they still acknowledge Flu deaths are a separate thing, even if they have "mysteriously" decreased due to mislabeling them as WuFlu deaths (or WuFlu "Stealing" those deaths naturally).
So you PROBABLY have a small increase in ChiCom COVID deaths put on top of the bog standard "Flu Season + Other deaths."
Harmless.
Simple.
If my theory is correct and there is indeed a slight increase in overall deaths from WuFlu mingling with other deaths, then the provable harm is from the excess.
And if my theory ISN'T correct, the harm is the background statistical noise of more or less routine death. Still harm, but "within normal parameters."
Neither of which are as damaging as the mass hysteria or Swamp State usurpation we've seen gutting our economy and civic culture that were Also spurred by this thing (But of course, by your logic we could point to Swampy corruption and tyranny and economic sabotage going well before even Wuhan had Wuhan Flu and say "Well, what's the harm? It was already happening" while ignoring the intensification of it). But still worth noting.
We'll never know this, because gunshot deaths are being counted as Wuhan flu deaths. Even if there's a slight bump in Wuhan flu deaths this year as compared to flus of years past, we'll never know if the Wuhan flu was actually worse.
No, I don't have access to more accurate statistics than you do, though I do know how to find what statistics we have acess to more easily.
The difference is I can interpret them better.
Because I both have some minimal medical experience, and because I'm not a credulous idiot.
We appear to have interpreted the same, though. The Wuhan flu is just another flu. How is that "better?"
Which is why you're caught screaming about "Why are China's death numbers so hard to believe?" and "These faked numbers are more accurate than those faked numbers? On what basis?"
Because apparently you've never read 1984 or understand how pervasive Commie book cooking is, much less how either side arrived at their numbers.
My complaint is that everyone expects China's numbers to be sky high. But this expectation assumes there is something to be dying of in the first place. There isn't, beyond a regular flu season. I take no issue with anyone calling the CPC liars, as they are that.
The wrong numbers of COVID deaths and infections in the US, UK, and other nations are based off of normal recording- along with "normal" mistakes like miscounting, double counting, or massaging the numbers to get them low- that are then skewed after the fact using number games, such as slapping normal Flu deaths as WuFlu deaths.
But the wrong numbers for COVID deaths and infections from the CCP have the "added bonus" of coming from a totalitarian dictatorship that is not shy about COMPLETELY INVENTING numbers from whole cloth and is not about to provide any evidence or external review whatsoever. And who are willing to do stuff like vanish people into literal incinerators in the same way that they lie about the US having the largest per capita prison population by pretending that Commie Party Laogai and secretive Blacksites don't exist.
That's the basis for why the West's faked numbers are more accurate than ChiCom faked numbers. As you'd know if you thought about it for five seconds.
Neither number is accurate, and so both form a very poor basis from which to try and discern the reality. As does the assumption that there "must" be more Wuhan flu deaths than have been reported. Since the whole thing's a hoax, Wuhan flu deaths are universally over-reported. They should be 0 across the board (and the deaths properly attributed to gunshot wounds, the flu, etc.)
Firstly: Argument from Ignorance is also a logical fallacy, and it amounts to almost everything you've done in this conversation
Yet we arrived at the same conclusion (that the Wuhan flu is just a flu)? Also, that isn't a logical fallacy, it (assuming it happened, which it didn't) is an incorrect apprehension of the facts. Once can have unimpeachable logic with incorrect facts (which isn't what I'm saying I have here).
Secondly: You're confusing the Argument from Authority fallacy with assessing information gotten by and presented by "So-Called" Experts. Which one can then analyze.
You implied I'm not qualified to review the statistics, and you are, because you volunteer and assume I don't (I don't).
It was a naked appeal to authority.
Instead of drawing upon your vast experience as a volunteer, you should have referred to statistics. But those all agree with me, so I see why you didn't.
Except the Wuhan COVID research was almost certainly not Bioweapons research.
Firstly because it was the study of a naturally occurring disease, secondly because even in its current form its lethality is so low (and the CCP showed so little ability to control it, hence the staff infections Laowhy's video covered), and thirdly because Most Bio Research isn't Bioweapons Research.
What the fuck? I suggest you go read up on the USSR's research into naturally occurring smallpox. When creating bioweapons, they don't start from scratch. They peruse nature's best hits, then try to remix and remaster.
The commies probably chose something related to the common cold for maximum spread, not realizing that the mechanism by which viruses spread universally neuters any severe effects of that virus. God probably had to make it that way or else civilization-ending pandemics would be a certainty.
For the same reason your average GMO isn't trying to create the next biological nuke. That stuff has other utilities than trying to come up with yet another rare white elephant doomsday weapon that is a niche at best.
I'm open to ideas as to the utility of a highly infectious novel virus!
I get tired of intellectually dishonest runarounds, and that is what you are doing.
Circular "Logic" that fails to prove its necessary assumption: that Wuhan Flu isn't dangerous.
It is. It's just not ultra-dangerous and has a high infectivity, low mortality profile like the Flu. And I hate to tell you this, the Flu's dangerous. Primarily to those in certain at risk demographics (like the old, the young, people with breathing problems, and so forth). But you do have a fair few healthy-as-a-bull people keel over and die of it every year.
That's dangerous, but it's not existential. Take reasonable precautions (which are usually less intrusive than the Masked Mooks demand) and soldier on so that even when people die, most people and the society survive more or less unhindered.
That's the problem. You're acting as if ChiCom Flu is not merely no more dangerous than the Flu (which is correct, and if anything even less dangerous with proper treatment since as the Hydro-Zinc Cocktail), but far far less.
"That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
You have provided absolutely zero evidence that the initial response of the CCP was to SPREAD overreaction. Indeed, the evidence I have presented shows that their initial reaction was to do the exact INVERSE of spreading overreaction to different countries: it was to impose UNDER-REACTION on Wuhan by dint of locking up whistle-blowers cutting news, and generally acting as if everything was "Fine." Initially this was just the local party bosses trying to avoid "rumors" (protip: tyrannical assholes hate "rumors") and avoid being blamed.
But when the infection at Wuhan blew up too hard for them to keep a lid on, the PRC decided not to spread overreaction, but to spread the disease. And one of the ways they did this was about LYING about how the disease spread and how prolific it was.
And that's Literally. As in the Commie Ethiopian shill at the head of WHO lying through his teeth claiming there was no evidence of human to human transmission even though by this point the CCP must have known.
And the Communist propagandists continued to parrot this "Nothing to see Here, everything is in Order" while smearing or downplaying reports from nations that aren't Totalitarian Shitholes in order to sabotage other nations and give their state-sponsored looters the time to hoard our goods.
So they spent the crucial breakout period of the disease doing the exact Inverse of spreading Overreaction. First domestically due to the CYA/Saving Face mentality of the Communist Party and the local authorities' concern they might get scapegoated for what happened (as they were), and Secondly internationally as the ChiComs and their fellow shills lied about the gravity of the disease and shut down the based, knowledgeable people trying to warn so this virus could be gotten in hand such as Taiwan.
And no, it's not a coincidence that Taiwan was one of those screaming about the threat of this thing the loudest while its death and infection rates are so low and its "lockdown" measures are so lax. Because An Ounce of Prevention is worth a Pound of Cure. And being proactive and GETTING ON a disease's trace means you can limit how far it spreads and how much damage it does.
The CCP lying and trying to spread UNDERreaction helped this virus cause the damage it did, both in terms of those directly affected and in the retarded-psychopath overreach by governmental goons claiming "We will totally relinquish these emergency powers."
Trying to spread OVERreaction- like the CCP and co are doing now- was late in the game, now that the virus has spread about as far and as deep as it's going to this season, herd immunity's building up, and the West and ChiComChina's other rivals are starting to reopen.
Agreed.
So we can agree that WuFlu IS dangerous, just a mundane kind of dangerous like what a functional society deals with every single day.
Again, no it wasn't. You're trying to marry your pet theory without providing evidence.
Mass hysteria didn't spread out from an epicenter in Wuhan. Mass hysteria spread out from almost every OTHER Place from a combination of sane and reasonable warnings (like those by Taiwan) being blown out of proportion, and unscrupulous BS from power grabby scum like Fauxci and the Imperial College Scammer.
The CCP was a late convert to spreading the gospel of mass hysteria, in part because they were worried about it rebounding into their face as people asked "Where did this come from?" (and for instance having punitive action like what Trump is proposing levied on them) or Chinese people saying "What did you do about this?!?", and in part because other left wing tyrants elsewhere beat them to it. The CCP's spreading it NOW because it has no real benefit pretending that nothing happened, but there is benefit in keeping other countries shut down as long as it can and helping their petty tyrants usurp as much power as they can.
Put it simply:
Commie Party at the start: "What are you talking about, a leak? YOU ARE A DOUBLE PLUS BAD WRONGTHINKER. Apologize to the party for daring to say there's a threat! Oh, and by the way enjoy being thrown in a dank cell with COVID...."
Commie Party Stage 2: "EVERYTHING IS FINE! Do not think. Consume. China is cleanest race. Ignore subhuman mongrels like Taiwan. No evidence of human to human transmissability! There's no NEED To stop flights!"
Commie Party Stage 3: "In the DARKEST OF DAYS as the decadent West allowed the Black Death to spread and destroy its society, the Heroic Peoples' Party arose to quell rumor mongering and bring effective treatment, thus showing the Communist Party is ordained by Marx-Heaven to rule foreigner. So while China can tentatively reopen, the barbaric savages abroad would be insane to, since they are totally more afflicted than we are! Praise Chairman Xi, Helm man of destiny!"
This is why I chew you out for not timelining this.
I don't know. If I had to wager a guess I would say "probably, marginally", most likely because even the most dishonest and thoroughly corrupt Western globalist medical hack in the West isn't claiming that Literally NOBODY has died of plain old Flu this season even as they shamelessly stripe mine most of those deaths to relabel as Coronavirus. Meaning that they still acknowledge Flu deaths are a separate thing, even if they have "mysteriously" decreased due to mislabeling them as WuFlu deaths (or WuFlu "Stealing" those deaths naturally).
So you PROBABLY have a small increase in ChiCom COVID deaths put on top of the bog standard "Flu Season + Other deaths."
Simple.
If my theory is correct and there is indeed a slight increase in overall deaths from WuFlu mingling with other deaths, then the provable harm is from the excess.
And if my theory ISN'T correct, the harm is the background statistical noise of more or less routine death. Still harm, but "within normal parameters."
Neither of which are as damaging as the mass hysteria or Swamp State usurpation we've seen gutting our economy and civic culture that were Also spurred by this thing (But of course, by your logic we could point to Swampy corruption and tyranny and economic sabotage going well before even Wuhan had Wuhan Flu and say "Well, what's the harm? It was already happening" while ignoring the intensification of it). But still worth noting.
No, I don't have access to more accurate statistics than you do, though I do know how to find what statistics we have acess to more easily.
The difference is I can interpret them better.
Because I both have some minimal medical experience, and because I'm not a credulous idiot.
Which is why you're caught screaming about "Why are China's death numbers so hard to believe?" and "These faked numbers are more accurate than those faked numbers? On what basis?"
Because apparently you've never read 1984 or understand how pervasive Commie book cooking is, much less how either side arrived at their numbers.
The wrong numbers of COVID deaths and infections in the US, UK, and other nations are based off of normal recording- along with "normal" mistakes like miscounting, double counting, or massaging the numbers to get them low- that are then skewed after the fact using number games, such as slapping normal Flu deaths as WuFlu deaths.
But the wrong numbers for COVID deaths and infections from the CCP have the "added bonus" of coming from a totalitarian dictatorship that is not shy about COMPLETELY INVENTING numbers from whole cloth and is not about to provide any evidence or external review whatsoever. And who are willing to do stuff like vanish people into literal incinerators in the same way that they lie about the US having the largest per capita prison population by pretending that Commie Party Laogai and secretive Blacksites don't exist.
That's the basis for why the West's faked numbers are more accurate than ChiCom faked numbers. As you'd know if you thought about it for five seconds.
Firstly: Argument from Ignorance is also a logical fallacy, and it amounts to almost everything you've done in this conversation
Secondly: You're confusing the Argument from Authority fallacy with assessing information gotten by and presented by "So-Called" Experts. Which one can then analyze.
For instance, this is why I am so confident dismissing the CCP numbers, which have a much, much higher probability of simply being invented from whole cloth than our own, in spite of both being wrong.
Put it simply: there's a qualitative difference between saying a Turkey is a Duck, and saying a Turkey is a Black Hole. Both are wrong, but the former is less wrong than the latter. And the latter indicates that someone isn't even looking at or knowledgeable of the actual information.
Except the Wuhan COVID research was almost certainly not Bioweapons research.
Firstly because it was the study of a naturally occurring disease, secondly because even in its current form its lethality is so low (and the CCP showed so little ability to control it, hence the staff infections Laowhy's video covered), and thirdly because Most Bio Research isn't Bioweapons Research.
For the same reason your average GMO isn't trying to create the next biological nuke. That stuff has other utilities than trying to come up with yet another rare white elephant doomsday weapon that is a niche at best.
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That plus the stats. Don't forget the stats!
Then where are the statistics proving this?
It also reduced deaths caused by the flu! Amazing!
But the flu isn't a danger that we can do anything about. China hasn't added any actual danger to living this year, since we've always had flu seasons, and they've always killed as many people as this year's flu season is killing.
Disagree? Feel free to point out the statistics showing this year's flu season (including the Wuhan flu) is meaningfully worse than other years.
My claim is that it is the flu. How could the flu be less dangerous than the flu?
My basis for concluding such is the fact that the Wuhan flu is harmless, and could never have been mistaken for something harmless.
What kind of master plan is it to spread around a harmless virus?
Far better and more effective to spread hysteria. Which is exactly what they've done. And there's your evidence.
Do you have any evidence at all that anyone, anywhere, had any reasonable basis at any time to think the Wuhan flu was dangerous?
But it didn't blow up in China. We can infer this from the fact that it hasn't blown up anywhere else. At all.
If you disagree, please point out the place where Wuhan flu deaths significatly outpaced normal flu deaths. Then we can use that data to interpolate China's deaths. All the data for every affected country indicates this is just another normal (maybe slightly worse, but we can't even conclude that because of gunshot wounds being counted as Wuhan flu deaths) flu season.
If China immediately told everyone "this virus is dangerous, we should stop all travel and try to prevent its spread", then countries would have stopped travel from China and there would be no reason to fear the virus having spread from China.
Unless they initially played "dumb" and allowed international travel, there would be no basis upon which to spread hysteria. And if there were no hysteria, China wouldn't have cover of hysteria to make the moves it's making in HK and India and the South China, etc.
And, of course, we must keep in mind the overarching fact: the Wuhan flu is harmless, just like every flu season.
Which country failed to implement an ounce of prevention, and is now wishing ruefully it had done so instead of having to implement a pound of cure?
No country, anywhere on earth, has experienced the Wuhan flu as anything worse than a regular flu season. The additional damage caused is ENTIRELY a result of overreaction.
If you disagree, feel free to post the country that was hit significantly harder by the Wuhan flu than that country gets hit by every year's flu season. I've asked several times, and you keep failing to provide this.
The virus didn't cause any damage that wouldn't have happened with this year's flu season, though. And this year's flu season wasn't caused by China. And it couldn't have been prevented.
The only thing the CCP has done is spread a pandemic of hysteria.
How could they sell an overreaction if they hadn't initially allowed travel abroad? If no one had travelled from Wuhan to spread the putative virus, what would we be overreacting to?
Fucking lead with this next time. Sheesh.
Wrong. The mass hysteria was in response to the half-assed lockdown of Wuhan, which had all the film and television cues for a serious pandemic. We saw China kneecap itself and wondered if they had a reason to do so. They didn't have a direct reason, since the Wuhan flu is harmless. So the only reason they did what they did was to spread panic.
But how could they cause us to panic if they had locked Wuhan down diligently? No one with the putative virus would be here to panic about.
How do we know the whistleblowers were put down for saying the Wuhan flu is a threat? They might have been saying "guys, this is weird, we're reacting like lunatics to a flu season." That message getting out would spoil the whole thing.
How else would "infected" individuals get all over the planet? If they hadn't, we'd have nothing to overreact about.
If China had diligently locked down Wuhan, we would have nothing to panic about. Since panic is the only risk here, and is also the only weaponized portion of the Wuhan flu episode, this reaction at this stage was necessary. Else panic couldn't be spread.
This is why I repeat the same question over and over. You haven't played through the chess game. If China did as you propose, they wouldn't have achieved their ends.
Harmless.
We'll never know this, because gunshot deaths are being counted as Wuhan flu deaths. Even if there's a slight bump in Wuhan flu deaths this year as compared to flus of years past, we'll never know if the Wuhan flu was actually worse.
We appear to have interpreted the same, though. The Wuhan flu is just another flu. How is that "better?"
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My complaint is that everyone expects China's numbers to be sky high. But this expectation assumes there is something to be dying of in the first place. There isn't, beyond a regular flu season. I take no issue with anyone calling the CPC liars, as they are that.
Neither number is accurate, and so both form a very poor basis from which to try and discern the reality. As does the assumption that there "must" be more Wuhan flu deaths than have been reported. Since the whole thing's a hoax, Wuhan flu deaths are universally over-reported. They should be 0 across the board (and the deaths properly attributed to gunshot wounds, the flu, etc.)
Yet we arrived at the same conclusion (that the Wuhan flu is just a flu)? Also, that isn't a logical fallacy, it (assuming it happened, which it didn't) is an incorrect apprehension of the facts. Once can have unimpeachable logic with incorrect facts (which isn't what I'm saying I have here).
You implied I'm not qualified to review the statistics, and you are, because you volunteer and assume I don't (I don't).
It was a naked appeal to authority.
Instead of drawing upon your vast experience as a volunteer, you should have referred to statistics. But those all agree with me, so I see why you didn't.
What the fuck? I suggest you go read up on the USSR's research into naturally occurring smallpox. When creating bioweapons, they don't start from scratch. They peruse nature's best hits, then try to remix and remaster.
The commies probably chose something related to the common cold for maximum spread, not realizing that the mechanism by which viruses spread universally neuters any severe effects of that virus. God probably had to make it that way or else civilization-ending pandemics would be a certainty.
I'm open to ideas as to the utility of a highly infectious novel virus!