Tony Timpa. Daniel Shaver. Justine Damond. David Ward. Should I keep going? BLM is bullshit. More whites killed by cops than blacks. Charlemagne was a white King and emperor. Lose the name. Maybe try King Adanzodan. ;)
Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver are both great examples. I'd use Justine Damond too, except she actually managed to get decent national coverage being that she was a woman and therefor a member of an "underprivileged group" kill by police (if she had been a white male, I doubt the case would've gotten 1/10th the coverage). Still, it's good to point out that it took EIGHT MONTHS for her killer to even be charged, compared to the 3 days it took for Floyd's killer to be charged while everyone shouted about "justice denied".
David Ward though I would avoid using as an example. According to articles about it, he had reported his vehicle as stolen days prior, somehow managed to get the vehicle back but didn't inform police, when an officer spotted the vehicle on the move and attempted to pull it over, Ward for some reason initiated a chase, then once pursuing officers caught up to him in a dead end and pitted the car, they ordered him out of the vehicle and he conveniently "had difficulty" opening the door, so they attempt to drag him out through the window, at which point Ward for some reason bites the officer's hand...dude did every goddamn thing wrong from start to finish. An argument can certainly be made that excessive force was applied, but it's in no way as cut and dry an example of unnecessary brutality as Timpa and Shaver.
So if you do a shitty thing a decade ago and serve time for it, that means it's okay to be murdered by cops for passing off a counterfeit bill later? Is that the argument you're making?
Now you're just being circuitous. It was already argued previously that passing off a counterfeit bill does not warrant death, nor does having committed a crime 10 years ago that he already served time for, nor does having drugs in his system (which Timpa also had). None of that is an excuse for essentially maintaining a choke hold for 8 minutes straight, including 3 minutes after he had already passed out, especially after he had been indicating he couldn't breath.
Why are some people so hell bent on defending shitty behavior from cops? I wouldn't excuse that sort of shit if it was used against a white guy in the same circumstances, and I'm not going to defend it when it's a black guy.
Christ, these are the same cops who a couple weeks ago were arresting people for throwing birthday parties in their homes or taking their kids on picnics or trying to go to church. These guys aren't "based" just because they put on a badge, and they'll happily violate your constitutional rights if ordered to do so. The people who desperately rush to defend cops are just as bad as the people who desperately rush to condemn them.
I think you miss the point. I’m not saying he deserved to die. No more than Tony Timpa. Or many others.
The same overstepping and abusive cops breaking up parties and killing people for non violent crimes do that shit to everyone. Including whites. So why is this being played as a problem that only affects blacks? It affects everyone. In many cases it affects whites more. So why the fuck am I, neither black nor white, having the BLM shit shoved down my throat when all lives are at risk.
Maybe if people gave a shit about this when it happened to Tony, or any other... then George would still be alive right now.
They should've executed him a long time ago. I don't feel bad that he is dead just like I don't feel bad that Hitler is dead. The cop broke protocol, but I don't get angry for bad people dying.
Tony had mental illness. He was out in public and called police using his cell phone saying he was out of his meds and having a crisis, and needed help. Police arrived and by this time a security officer from a nearby business was restraining Tony. Zip tied, police laid him on the ground and knelt on him while making fun of him For 14 minutes while medics arrived to give a sedative. Tony complained that they were killing him and he couldn’t breathe until he died. Medics who arrived made no attempt to revive him. At autopsy, he was found to have cocaine in his system (not unlike Mr. Floyd, who instead had fentanyl). Misdemeanor charges of misconduct were brought against officer Mansell who had knelt on Tony’s neck, but were dropped by the DA.
Thank you brother. After asking the question, I did some searching. It’s just as awful of a story, maybe worse, than what we recently witnessed. I’m not a blue-basher. Quite the opposite. But shit does need to change and color has nothing to do with it.
No question. In Timpa’s case, I have no idea why charges were so anemic and then dropped altogether. There was bodycam footage.
The procedure of kneeling on necks for extended periods of >1 minute needs to be seriously revised. Clearly this technique kills people.
Floyd’s case is being prosecuted as Murder-3. Timpa’s killer was never prosecuted. Why the discrepancy when the details of the case were so similar? As far as I know Timpa just called Police for help, wasn’t even a suspect.
I think bodycam footage is a useful tool to keep the few bad cops from misbehaving. Police have a huge amount of authority, and it is appropriate that there be a system to ensure that they are not misusing their power and deadly force authorization.
The celebrity personality “Charlamagne tha God” told Rush Limbaugh that he knew systemic racism was active because what happened to Floyd could never happen to a white man. Somebody should inform him about Tony Timpa.
You say "clearly this technique kills people", but nothing is clear about it. Both these cases involved hard drugs in the system that could have caused cardiac arrest on their own.
I'm not saying the technique definitely isn't dangerous either, just that we don't know if it truly is or is not.
The kneeling seems unnecessary in BOTH cases. People have drugs in their system, or they have unknown medical issues—the man from Tampa called for medical help!
Are we worried about finding loopholes so these shitty cops aren’t accurately punished? Yes, drugs kill on their own. These men were killed at the hands of people who abused their power and it’s a disgrace to this country. The cops were mocking them as the life left their bodies. It wasn’t even as easy as firing a gun, they killed them with their own hands. Most people couldn’t do that to a mouse and both cops did it to men. These cops were on an ego-trip.
BLM misses the point when they fail to see that when some cops abuse their power, it happens with white people too. And yes, the reason why this story wasn’t as big is bc BLM (Soros?) couldn’t profit from it. There are many you tube channels that regularly put out police interaction videos, there are people who STILL pay attention whether the interaction became national news or not (usually it gets swept under the rug like the man from Tampa).
The shitty cops like these two men are putting good cops in danger. The good guys know who the hot-heads are and they need to start calling them out. There’s something about carrying a gun and automatic authority that tends to intrigue the wrong type every once in a while.
Just based on common sense, though, having an adult male kneel on your neck while you wheeze that you cannot breathe, and within minutes you die, seems to be a cause and effect. But maybe it was just coincidence. I won’t be volunteering to be a test subject.
The relationship between the DA and cops is the problem. They're both on team government and won't turn on each other.
I worked with a retired cop and he told me a story about how when he was working security at a large country music festival, he had to write up an off duty cop from a nearby city for having an open container while driving and providing alcohol to minors. He later got verbally reprimanded and found out everything was ignored and thrown out.
In Austin a few years ago, a cop shot an unarmed white man (that had comitted no crime) in the back as he was running away. Cop said he thought the guy was reaching for a gun (what they always say when they blast some unarmed person) and that was that. Story didn't even make the front page of the local paper let alone national news.
It's up to the local citizens to hold their police accountable.
Most of the places rioting are not because of George Floyd. The riots are due to generally bad governance by the urban officials. They are due to the dissolution of community by the covid response. The rioters will claim it's due to racism, but their police are hardly that bad anymore, especially in California and Chicago.
The police must be held accountable by the citizens. If the cop gets to go home after executing any threatless citizen, justice has not been served.
On the other hand, the police today are scared. They need the help of their community. The police chief is very proud and doesn't want to admit that they don't know how to handle things. We need to show we support our local police IF we support the actions of our local police. I'd be more than happy to be led on a joint civilian and cop patrol of the shipping centers by a police officer. If the cops fear for their families, we can post up in front of their houses at night to provide security. I am happy to do a rotation with some other guys.
Go to youtube a search his name. The entire police body cam is on there. You will see it is no different from George Floyd. It's actually sickening when they pick up his lifeless body and when one of the cops asks "I hope we didn't kill him". They all smile and laugh "what do you mean we ?"
His mother didnt even learn how he died until 3 years later because the police department stonewalled when she asked for more information. They felt empowered because there was zero national coverage.
...and to top it off, he called police on himself because he was off of his meds and having a severe mental breakdown. He was calling the police to HELP him. He was doing the right thing by asking for help. He was killed and then laughed at and made fun of by the same officers he was asking for help from. The national news needs to pick this story up.
This is not a white black issue, its a human issue, its an over use of force issue. Every singe cop needs to have another cop kneel on their neck and back during training for an extended amount of time. They need to see what its like.
More community police work, less militaristic police, we need to stop and re-evaluate the war on drugs, look at how to change the next generation of minority kids so they don't end up strung out and another statistic. We need to teach fathers to be fathers, we need to take the time to help the less fortunate learn, grow, and help pull themselves out of poverty.
Welfare, hand-outs, free stuff, mass incarnation, removal of the father, paramilitary police, democrat policy's, and many, many other programs haven't worked. We need to extend the hand, hold the door open, and be encouraging. Hold them accountable for their actions but be there to help dust them off and pick them up when they fall. They have forgotten how to be great and we need to help everyone around us succeed. A rising tide lifts all boats, its time to change these policies and remove these predators from office, its time to help.
My rule is don't do anything that will bring cops into your life! If they do come in to arrest u go peacefully and take it up w court! I've watched enough Live PD to know how it's done so they don't kill you!
They can't be trusted all the time to do the right thing! They are human and some of them are scumbags like in every legal profession out there!
14 minutes? Why?
Rackauckas announced that according to the Orange County coroner, the cause of death was "asphyxia caused by mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement." Rackauckas said Thomas died because of the force of the officers on his chest, which made it impossible for him to breathe, causing Thomas to become unconscious. He then became comatose, and died when taken off life support five days later.
Didn't make national news - because a Mexican Cop killing a white guy just isn't as exciting I guess.
The public's reaction? About 100 people protested in front of police HQ. Some blocked traffic. About 40 stayed after police told them to disperse, 14 were arrested.
That's it. Zero arson, zero looting, zero violence, zero destruction, zero race baiting.
Kneeling on a neck does not kill you. I just googled the autopsy for Tony Timpa and, surprise, almost identical to George Floyd.
“the toxic effects of cocaine and the stress associated with physical restraint.”
Heart attacks cause people to think they can't breath because the oxygen isn't being pumped throughout the body. Kneel on the side of the neck does not stop breathing. I've training BJJ\Grapping for years and you cannot choke anyone out like that. If someone tries to put pressure on your neck you will instinctively turn to the side because the side of your neck is pretty strong. I've had people shove their forarm into the side of my neck while they're on top of me as hard as the possibly can, and it sucks, but it isn't that bad and it will definitely not kill you or impair breathing.
Cocaine and Meth and other similar drugs increase your risk of heart attack when you're on them, and they can cause permanent heart damage as well. You can argue that police should have better ways of de-escalating situations so stress doesn't exacerbate heart issues of drug users, but it isn't police brutality and it isn't murder.
Putting pressure on the carotid sinus can cause a vagal reaction which slows the heart and can drop blood pressure.
Source: I am a doc and was taught the technique of carotid massage in medical school. You can also google the term. This is a dangerous way to restrain people.
Would you say that normal healthy people are at risk of heart attack from that pressure, or just people with poor heart health such as illegal drug users? I did some searches but couldn't find any relevant info. Obviously 2 people isn't a representative sample, but these two were both previous drug users and had the drugs in their system when they died. If this is a common police tactic I would expect to see people who are not on drugs at the time die the same way.
Yes.
If you're arrested for a violent crime, a white person is 33% more likely to be killed by the cops than a black person.
Axualey mathematically a black person is 25% less likely to be killed by cops during arrest than a white person.
Yes. Make sure to tweet to Charlemagne:
Tony Timpa. Daniel Shaver. Justine Damond. David Ward. Should I keep going? BLM is bullshit. More whites killed by cops than blacks. Charlemagne was a white King and emperor. Lose the name. Maybe try King Adanzodan. ;)
Tbf, they did mention the Damond case (Although not her name)/they complained that her murderer was convicted.
Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver are both great examples. I'd use Justine Damond too, except she actually managed to get decent national coverage being that she was a woman and therefor a member of an "underprivileged group" kill by police (if she had been a white male, I doubt the case would've gotten 1/10th the coverage). Still, it's good to point out that it took EIGHT MONTHS for her killer to even be charged, compared to the 3 days it took for Floyd's killer to be charged while everyone shouted about "justice denied".
David Ward though I would avoid using as an example. According to articles about it, he had reported his vehicle as stolen days prior, somehow managed to get the vehicle back but didn't inform police, when an officer spotted the vehicle on the move and attempted to pull it over, Ward for some reason initiated a chase, then once pursuing officers caught up to him in a dead end and pitted the car, they ordered him out of the vehicle and he conveniently "had difficulty" opening the door, so they attempt to drag him out through the window, at which point Ward for some reason bites the officer's hand...dude did every goddamn thing wrong from start to finish. An argument can certainly be made that excessive force was applied, but it's in no way as cut and dry an example of unnecessary brutality as Timpa and Shaver.
Which probably means he didn’t get taken on a funeral tour.
What the fuck.
Gay as fuck!
Never heard of this. Travesty of justice. Stop kneeing people in the neck for extended periods of time.
Anyway, will the sleuths here be applying their George Floyd standard on this guy too?
Depends. Did Tony attack a pregnant woman by pistol whipping her?
So if you do a shitty thing a decade ago and serve time for it, that means it's okay to be murdered by cops for passing off a counterfeit bill later? Is that the argument you're making?
What if you're drunk and on drugs?
What if you're already in cuffs and there are 4 officers on scene
What if he just gets up and runs away
You mean like Tony Timpa?
After using counterfeit money and resisting arrest? Well let’s leave all that out. You at least agree it’s the same thing then right?
Now you're just being circuitous. It was already argued previously that passing off a counterfeit bill does not warrant death, nor does having committed a crime 10 years ago that he already served time for, nor does having drugs in his system (which Timpa also had). None of that is an excuse for essentially maintaining a choke hold for 8 minutes straight, including 3 minutes after he had already passed out, especially after he had been indicating he couldn't breath.
Why are some people so hell bent on defending shitty behavior from cops? I wouldn't excuse that sort of shit if it was used against a white guy in the same circumstances, and I'm not going to defend it when it's a black guy.
Christ, these are the same cops who a couple weeks ago were arresting people for throwing birthday parties in their homes or taking their kids on picnics or trying to go to church. These guys aren't "based" just because they put on a badge, and they'll happily violate your constitutional rights if ordered to do so. The people who desperately rush to defend cops are just as bad as the people who desperately rush to condemn them.
I think you miss the point. I’m not saying he deserved to die. No more than Tony Timpa. Or many others.
The same overstepping and abusive cops breaking up parties and killing people for non violent crimes do that shit to everyone. Including whites. So why is this being played as a problem that only affects blacks? It affects everyone. In many cases it affects whites more. So why the fuck am I, neither black nor white, having the BLM shit shoved down my throat when all lives are at risk.
Maybe if people gave a shit about this when it happened to Tony, or any other... then George would still be alive right now.
They should've executed him a long time ago. I don't feel bad that he is dead just like I don't feel bad that Hitler is dead. The cop broke protocol, but I don't get angry for bad people dying.
This needs to go viral like yesterday
I’ve only recently even heard about him (and I’m close to Dallas). Anyone know what he was being detained for? The backstory?
Tony had mental illness. He was out in public and called police using his cell phone saying he was out of his meds and having a crisis, and needed help. Police arrived and by this time a security officer from a nearby business was restraining Tony. Zip tied, police laid him on the ground and knelt on him while making fun of him For 14 minutes while medics arrived to give a sedative. Tony complained that they were killing him and he couldn’t breathe until he died. Medics who arrived made no attempt to revive him. At autopsy, he was found to have cocaine in his system (not unlike Mr. Floyd, who instead had fentanyl). Misdemeanor charges of misconduct were brought against officer Mansell who had knelt on Tony’s neck, but were dropped by the DA.
Thank you brother. After asking the question, I did some searching. It’s just as awful of a story, maybe worse, than what we recently witnessed. I’m not a blue-basher. Quite the opposite. But shit does need to change and color has nothing to do with it.
No question. In Timpa’s case, I have no idea why charges were so anemic and then dropped altogether. There was bodycam footage.
The procedure of kneeling on necks for extended periods of >1 minute needs to be seriously revised. Clearly this technique kills people.
Floyd’s case is being prosecuted as Murder-3. Timpa’s killer was never prosecuted. Why the discrepancy when the details of the case were so similar? As far as I know Timpa just called Police for help, wasn’t even a suspect.
I think bodycam footage is a useful tool to keep the few bad cops from misbehaving. Police have a huge amount of authority, and it is appropriate that there be a system to ensure that they are not misusing their power and deadly force authorization.
The celebrity personality “Charlamagne tha God” told Rush Limbaugh that he knew systemic racism was active because what happened to Floyd could never happen to a white man. Somebody should inform him about Tony Timpa.
You say "clearly this technique kills people", but nothing is clear about it. Both these cases involved hard drugs in the system that could have caused cardiac arrest on their own.
I'm not saying the technique definitely isn't dangerous either, just that we don't know if it truly is or is not.
The kneeling seems unnecessary in BOTH cases. People have drugs in their system, or they have unknown medical issues—the man from Tampa called for medical help!
Are we worried about finding loopholes so these shitty cops aren’t accurately punished? Yes, drugs kill on their own. These men were killed at the hands of people who abused their power and it’s a disgrace to this country. The cops were mocking them as the life left their bodies. It wasn’t even as easy as firing a gun, they killed them with their own hands. Most people couldn’t do that to a mouse and both cops did it to men. These cops were on an ego-trip.
BLM misses the point when they fail to see that when some cops abuse their power, it happens with white people too. And yes, the reason why this story wasn’t as big is bc BLM (Soros?) couldn’t profit from it. There are many you tube channels that regularly put out police interaction videos, there are people who STILL pay attention whether the interaction became national news or not (usually it gets swept under the rug like the man from Tampa).
The shitty cops like these two men are putting good cops in danger. The good guys know who the hot-heads are and they need to start calling them out. There’s something about carrying a gun and automatic authority that tends to intrigue the wrong type every once in a while.
Reasonable point. It deserves to be studied.
Just based on common sense, though, having an adult male kneel on your neck while you wheeze that you cannot breathe, and within minutes you die, seems to be a cause and effect. But maybe it was just coincidence. I won’t be volunteering to be a test subject.
The drugs exacerbate the situation for sure but once you have a guy down n zip tied why the neck kneeling?
Because ALL cops are psychopaths. You a certain personality that is psychotic that makes you want to be a police officer.
Are you honestly saying either of these men would have even probably died whether or not there was someone cutting off circulation to their brains?
The relationship between the DA and cops is the problem. They're both on team government and won't turn on each other.
I worked with a retired cop and he told me a story about how when he was working security at a large country music festival, he had to write up an off duty cop from a nearby city for having an open container while driving and providing alcohol to minors. He later got verbally reprimanded and found out everything was ignored and thrown out.
Bad cops are a DIME A DOZEN!
Sorry for being lazy...just did some homework. Damn....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/%3foutputType=amp
removed google prefix:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/?outputType=amp/
In Austin a few years ago, a cop shot an unarmed white man (that had comitted no crime) in the back as he was running away. Cop said he thought the guy was reaching for a gun (what they always say when they blast some unarmed person) and that was that. Story didn't even make the front page of the local paper let alone national news.
IMO, the cop should have been charged.
It's up to the local citizens to hold their police accountable.
Most of the places rioting are not because of George Floyd. The riots are due to generally bad governance by the urban officials. They are due to the dissolution of community by the covid response. The rioters will claim it's due to racism, but their police are hardly that bad anymore, especially in California and Chicago.
The police must be held accountable by the citizens. If the cop gets to go home after executing any threatless citizen, justice has not been served.
On the other hand, the police today are scared. They need the help of their community. The police chief is very proud and doesn't want to admit that they don't know how to handle things. We need to show we support our local police IF we support the actions of our local police. I'd be more than happy to be led on a joint civilian and cop patrol of the shipping centers by a police officer. If the cops fear for their families, we can post up in front of their houses at night to provide security. I am happy to do a rotation with some other guys.
The anonymity granted by social acceptance of face coverings is also intensifying this.
What other part of the world is associated with widespread face coverings and rampant public violence?
Hmm...
White lives don't matter in black America
Yes. Because this is not about police brutality. It’s about using race to fuck up our country.
I never heard of this, poor guy.
Go to youtube a search his name. The entire police body cam is on there. You will see it is no different from George Floyd. It's actually sickening when they pick up his lifeless body and when one of the cops asks "I hope we didn't kill him". They all smile and laugh "what do you mean we ?"
His mother didnt even learn how he died until 3 years later because the police department stonewalled when she asked for more information. They felt empowered because there was zero national coverage.
:( i cant watch it too upsetting. thank you
Soros-funded DA who was among the first of his ilk to say that theft up to $700 wouldn’t be prosecuted.
...and to top it off, he called police on himself because he was off of his meds and having a severe mental breakdown. He was calling the police to HELP him. He was doing the right thing by asking for help. He was killed and then laughed at and made fun of by the same officers he was asking for help from. The national news needs to pick this story up.
This is not a white black issue, its a human issue, its an over use of force issue. Every singe cop needs to have another cop kneel on their neck and back during training for an extended amount of time. They need to see what its like.
More community police work, less militaristic police, we need to stop and re-evaluate the war on drugs, look at how to change the next generation of minority kids so they don't end up strung out and another statistic. We need to teach fathers to be fathers, we need to take the time to help the less fortunate learn, grow, and help pull themselves out of poverty.
Welfare, hand-outs, free stuff, mass incarnation, removal of the father, paramilitary police, democrat policy's, and many, many other programs haven't worked. We need to extend the hand, hold the door open, and be encouraging. Hold them accountable for their actions but be there to help dust them off and pick them up when they fall. They have forgotten how to be great and we need to help everyone around us succeed. A rising tide lifts all boats, its time to change these policies and remove these predators from office, its time to help.
My rule is don't do anything that will bring cops into your life! If they do come in to arrest u go peacefully and take it up w court! I've watched enough Live PD to know how it's done so they don't kill you!
They can't be trusted all the time to do the right thing! They are human and some of them are scumbags like in every legal profession out there! 14 minutes? Why?
Ever heard of Kelly Thomas? Probably not.
Died a similar way.
Rackauckas announced that according to the Orange County coroner, the cause of death was "asphyxia caused by mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement." Rackauckas said Thomas died because of the force of the officers on his chest, which made it impossible for him to breathe, causing Thomas to become unconscious. He then became comatose, and died when taken off life support five days later.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/Kelly-Thomas-Police-Beating.jpg
Didn't make national news - because a Mexican Cop killing a white guy just isn't as exciting I guess.
The public's reaction? About 100 people protested in front of police HQ. Some blocked traffic. About 40 stayed after police told them to disperse, 14 were arrested.
That's it. Zero arson, zero looting, zero violence, zero destruction, zero race baiting.
Yes.
Kneeling on a neck does not kill you. I just googled the autopsy for Tony Timpa and, surprise, almost identical to George Floyd.
“the toxic effects of cocaine and the stress associated with physical restraint.”
Heart attacks cause people to think they can't breath because the oxygen isn't being pumped throughout the body. Kneel on the side of the neck does not stop breathing. I've training BJJ\Grapping for years and you cannot choke anyone out like that. If someone tries to put pressure on your neck you will instinctively turn to the side because the side of your neck is pretty strong. I've had people shove their forarm into the side of my neck while they're on top of me as hard as the possibly can, and it sucks, but it isn't that bad and it will definitely not kill you or impair breathing.
Cocaine and Meth and other similar drugs increase your risk of heart attack when you're on them, and they can cause permanent heart damage as well. You can argue that police should have better ways of de-escalating situations so stress doesn't exacerbate heart issues of drug users, but it isn't police brutality and it isn't murder.
Putting pressure on the carotid sinus can cause a vagal reaction which slows the heart and can drop blood pressure.
Source: I am a doc and was taught the technique of carotid massage in medical school. You can also google the term. This is a dangerous way to restrain people.
Would you say that normal healthy people are at risk of heart attack from that pressure, or just people with poor heart health such as illegal drug users? I did some searches but couldn't find any relevant info. Obviously 2 people isn't a representative sample, but these two were both previous drug users and had the drugs in their system when they died. If this is a common police tactic I would expect to see people who are not on drugs at the time die the same way.