This is my interpretation of today's ruling about lgtbq, which I think I like after thinking about it for a few hours. It's mostly copy/pasted from other responses I've written so everything below is written by me. I'd like to get more thoughts on it because I'm definitely no legal scholar.
I actually agree with the ruling, but I also agree with others that political ideology wouldn't be a bad thing to add to our protected classes.
Person X is attracted to a man. If person X is female and you're ok with it but not if person X is male then that is sex discrimination. I literally haven't heard this argument until today.
Likewise let's say Person X wears skirts. If you're ok with X being female wearing skirts, but not ok with X being male wearing skirts then that is also sex discrimination.
Leftists wanted [males identifying as women] to be officially females, but this ruling literally does the exact opposite lol. The ruling opinion (from Gorsuch) literally says that males identifying as females are not females--they are males. However, if you're ok with a FEMALE doing something then you can't discriminate if a MALE does the same thing.
I honestly don't even think the left knows what this means yet. IMO this is a secret red pill. The ruling is both freedom oriented AND biology oriented and imo cements that males/females are determined at birth and are unrelated to gender.
Having laid out this rule, Gorsuch then explains why discrimination against LGBTQ employees constitutes “sex discrimination” by laying out two examples.
Consider, for example, an employer with two employees, both of whom are attracted to men. The two individuals are, to the employer’s mind, materially identical in all respects, except that one is a man and the other a woman. If the employer fires the male employee for no reason other than the fact he is attracted to men, the employer discriminates against him for traits or actions it tolerates in his female colleague.
That is, if an employer permits its female employees to have sexual and romantic attractions to men but denies that same right to male employees, it is engaged in sex discrimination. It treats men differently than women.
Gorsuch also applies similar logic to a transgender employee:
Or take an employer who fires a transgender person who was identified as a male at birth but who now identifies as a female. If the employer retains an otherwise identical employee who was identified as female at birth, the employer intentionally penalizes a person identified as male at birth for traits or actions that it tolerates in an employee identified as female at birth. Again, the individual employee’s sex plays an unmistakable and impermissible role in the discharge decision.
This entire case falls apart if you get rid of the SEX protection lol. I love this because it should make everyone happy (but it probably won't). LGBTQ people get their protections and we still get to respect biology. Male/female are determined at birth.
One thing this doesn't do (like Tim Pool suggested) is that you can't claim to be a different species because this is about SEX. Tim Pool suggested you could identify as a tiger or something but that really doesn't apply.
Let's say Person X and Person Y identify as a tiger. If person X is a female and Person Y is a male and you fire them both then it's not sex discrimination.
The only way that would be sex discrimination is if you allow a male to be a tiger and not a female (or vice versa).
I think more than anything else you're going to see employers get even more cagey or creative about why people are getting let go. I'd also guess that people who aren't in protected classes just became more attractive as applicant's because it's less liability if they turn out to be garbage at their job.
As a disclaimer, I'm basing that off some videos I've watched and from reading people's comments on here.
People are going to push the craziest bullshit through the courts and force it as high as possible to try to get their 97 genders legitimized.
IMO no this won't happen.
Let's say Person X identifies as Gender Y
If Person X is a female and you are ok with them behaving as Gender Y but not if person X is male then that is sex discrimination.
If Person X is female and you are ok with them behaving as Gender Y and you are ok with it if X is male then it's not sex discrimination.
If Person X is female or if the person is male and you're not ok with either behaving as Gender Y then that is also not sex discrimination.
Imagine if Gender = tiger gender (Tim Pool said something like this). A business owner could not allow either males or females to be employed as tiger gender because there is literally no discrimination based off of sex because all sexes are not allowed to be tiger gender.
What if (unironically) ugliness is used to justify the firing? "Person X is ugly and ruins morale. They also happen to be trans, but that's not why we fired them. We fired them for being ugly."
Edit: To clarify, you'd be able to get away with this at Hooters or a strip club or if you're making a movie or whatever. Probably wouldn't work for traditional businesses.
Ultimately, this ruling means that as a human you have equal rights and your sex/gender can not be discriminated against regardless of what it is.
Do nothing democrat libtards have no idea what they've unleashed and will work very very hard to frame this in a way to hide the reality of it
This ruling completely squashes quota hiring, bias hiring and any type of hiring that uses immutable traits to preferentially select.
All it needs is for someone to send a test case to set the precedent
The entire ruling actually makes specific points of not making it about gender, and instead makes it very clear that a persons gender/sex/identified preference can not be used to deny or give advantage to anyone
This is actually great, as it means that men can use these rulings in places like custody cases, access to gender based programs and anyone charging men more money due to muh wage gap.
I'm seeing far too many people making claims about implications of what this means, but really just pushing an agenda into the commentary.
This video reading by a lawyer is a straight reading of the ruling, with mild commentary.
The video is an hour and a half long, but if you want to understand it, without prestitutes putting a huge amount of agenda and spin on it, this is the way to go.
My takeaway is, the legal concept being used is "but for", as in, but for the sex/gender label this would not happen.
Basically, the ruling means using a persons gender to deny OR GIVE ADVANTAGE is discriminatory and thus not permissible
This ruling the justices specifically state they are only dealing with sex/gender
To make a ruling on race of a similar type a new case would need to be brought referencing this one as precedence - and I'm sure it would give the same outcome, but it needs to go to court for the specific topic of race
But very few people could be bothered to understand this, bringing about this newer ruling the reinforces the previous rulings but brought up to a modern day understanding
Ultimately this case is just a "yeah the original ruling still holds", but in a legal context it's important as it makes it much harder for special interest groups to argue against it, and makes it much easier for anyone fighting discrimination based on gender (especially if they were denied employment for being male)
It's not freedom oriented. Private citizens should be able to choose who their associate with. The government has decided, that instead you are OBLIGATED to give your labor (paycheck, product, service, etc) to other people because of their arbitrary characteristics.
And now who they want to fuck or how they dress is a protected characteristic. The Civil Rights Act was a huge mistake.
An employer should be able to fire someone for whatever reason they want. Whether it's wearing dresses, farting too much, or just looking at you funny.
It's not freedom oriented. Private citizens should be able to choose who their associate with. The government has decided, that instead you are OBLIGATED to give your labor (paycheck, product, service, etc) to other people because of their arbitrary characteristics.
Well I'm not exactly sure how that applies to anything that I've said, but I agree with you that we shouldn't do this but I would make one stipulation. I do think Trump was right that we should help people based on class e.g. his healthcare bill provided free care to the poorest American citizens.
I'd be interested in hearing how you think it applies to how people dress or otherwise. What do you think is going to happen? It's not like strip clubs and places like Hooters are going to all of a sudden start being forced to hire trans employees https://www.businessinsider.com/how-can-hooters-hire-only-women-2015-9
You said the ruling is freedom oriented. It isn't. It's an extension of the CRA's nullification of freedom of association. Aside from that,
You're asking the wrong question. It's easy not to hire someone. (Although hired enough of NOT some kind of someone and you might get sued.)
The question is firing in this case. The employee "transitioned" after they were hired, then the boss didn't want them to work there anymore. A Hooter's girl could "transition" after being hired. That is where this ruling comes in saying, "Too bad, you can't fire them for changing their appearance because that is sex discrimination." Hooters/etc in particular may have a legal defense, but the vast majority of businesses do not.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but yes Hooters would be able to fire someone who transitioned and they have legal precedent to do so. Yes the ruling is freedom oriented.
Why did you use Hooters as an example and then say it didn't apply to them? lol.
This is my interpretation of today's ruling about lgtbq, which I think I like after thinking about it for a few hours. It's mostly copy/pasted from other responses I've written so everything below is written by me. I'd like to get more thoughts on it because I'm definitely no legal scholar.
I actually agree with the ruling, but I also agree with others that political ideology wouldn't be a bad thing to add to our protected classes.
Person X is attracted to a man. If person X is female and you're ok with it but not if person X is male then that is sex discrimination. I literally haven't heard this argument until today.
Likewise let's say Person X wears skirts. If you're ok with X being female wearing skirts, but not ok with X being male wearing skirts then that is also sex discrimination.
Leftists wanted [males identifying as women] to be officially females, but this ruling literally does the exact opposite lol. The ruling opinion (from Gorsuch) literally says that males identifying as females are not females--they are males. However, if you're ok with a FEMALE doing something then you can't discriminate if a MALE does the same thing.
I honestly don't even think the left knows what this means yet. IMO this is a secret red pill. The ruling is both freedom oriented AND biology oriented and imo cements that males/females are determined at birth and are unrelated to gender.
The ruling opinion (from Gorsuch) literally says that males identifying as females are not females--they are males.
Do you have a link to this handy?
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/15/21291515/supreme-court-bostock-clayton-county-lgbtq-neil-gorsuch
This entire case falls apart if you get rid of the SEX protection lol. I love this because it should make everyone happy (but it probably won't). LGBTQ people get their protections and we still get to respect biology. Male/female are determined at birth.
One thing this doesn't do (like Tim Pool suggested) is that you can't claim to be a different species because this is about SEX. Tim Pool suggested you could identify as a tiger or something but that really doesn't apply.
Let's say Person X and Person Y identify as a tiger. If person X is a female and Person Y is a male and you fire them both then it's not sex discrimination.
The only way that would be sex discrimination is if you allow a male to be a tiger and not a female (or vice versa).
I think more than anything else you're going to see employers get even more cagey or creative about why people are getting let go. I'd also guess that people who aren't in protected classes just became more attractive as applicant's because it's less liability if they turn out to be garbage at their job.
As a disclaimer, I'm basing that off some videos I've watched and from reading people's comments on here.
IMO no this won't happen.
Let's say Person X identifies as Gender Y
Imagine if Gender = tiger gender (Tim Pool said something like this). A business owner could not allow either males or females to be employed as tiger gender because there is literally no discrimination based off of sex because all sexes are not allowed to be tiger gender.
If their behaviour is something that you don't accept from a male or female then it isn't sex discrimination.
What if (unironically) ugliness is used to justify the firing? "Person X is ugly and ruins morale. They also happen to be trans, but that's not why we fired them. We fired them for being ugly."
Precedent should work fine for this https://www.businessinsider.com/how-can-hooters-hire-only-women-2015-9
Edit: To clarify, you'd be able to get away with this at Hooters or a strip club or if you're making a movie or whatever. Probably wouldn't work for traditional businesses.
I replied to the person you replied to.
Ultimately, this ruling means that as a human you have equal rights and your sex/gender can not be discriminated against regardless of what it is.
Do nothing democrat libtards have no idea what they've unleashed and will work very very hard to frame this in a way to hide the reality of it
This ruling completely squashes quota hiring, bias hiring and any type of hiring that uses immutable traits to preferentially select.
All it needs is for someone to send a test case to set the precedent
The entire ruling actually makes specific points of not making it about gender, and instead makes it very clear that a persons gender/sex/identified preference can not be used to deny or give advantage to anyone
This is actually great, as it means that men can use these rulings in places like custody cases, access to gender based programs and anyone charging men more money due to muh wage gap.
I'm seeing far too many people making claims about implications of what this means, but really just pushing an agenda into the commentary.
This video reading by a lawyer is a straight reading of the ruling, with mild commentary.
The video is an hour and a half long, but if you want to understand it, without prestitutes putting a huge amount of agenda and spin on it, this is the way to go.
My takeaway is, the legal concept being used is "but for", as in, but for the sex/gender label this would not happen.
Basically, the ruling means using a persons gender to deny OR GIVE ADVANTAGE is discriminatory and thus not permissible
Too bad he didn't make it apply to race, too. Could have ended Affirmative Action without the Left even realizing it.
"using a person's race to deny or give advantage is discriminatory and thus not permissible" would have shot the Democrats in the face.
This ruling the justices specifically state they are only dealing with sex/gender
To make a ruling on race of a similar type a new case would need to be brought referencing this one as precedence - and I'm sure it would give the same outcome, but it needs to go to court for the specific topic of race
Isn't that what the sex part of the 1964 civil rights act already did?
sure did!
But very few people could be bothered to understand this, bringing about this newer ruling the reinforces the previous rulings but brought up to a modern day understanding
Ultimately this case is just a "yeah the original ruling still holds", but in a legal context it's important as it makes it much harder for special interest groups to argue against it, and makes it much easier for anyone fighting discrimination based on gender (especially if they were denied employment for being male)
Well then, I guess I endorse sex discrimination.
It's not freedom oriented. Private citizens should be able to choose who their associate with. The government has decided, that instead you are OBLIGATED to give your labor (paycheck, product, service, etc) to other people because of their arbitrary characteristics.
And now who they want to fuck or how they dress is a protected characteristic. The Civil Rights Act was a huge mistake.
An employer should be able to fire someone for whatever reason they want. Whether it's wearing dresses, farting too much, or just looking at you funny.
Well I'm not exactly sure how that applies to anything that I've said, but I agree with you that we shouldn't do this but I would make one stipulation. I do think Trump was right that we should help people based on class e.g. his healthcare bill provided free care to the poorest American citizens.
I'd be interested in hearing how you think it applies to how people dress or otherwise. What do you think is going to happen? It's not like strip clubs and places like Hooters are going to all of a sudden start being forced to hire trans employees https://www.businessinsider.com/how-can-hooters-hire-only-women-2015-9
You said the ruling is freedom oriented. It isn't. It's an extension of the CRA's nullification of freedom of association. Aside from that,
You're asking the wrong question. It's easy not to hire someone. (Although hired enough of NOT some kind of someone and you might get sued.)
The question is firing in this case. The employee "transitioned" after they were hired, then the boss didn't want them to work there anymore. A Hooter's girl could "transition" after being hired. That is where this ruling comes in saying, "Too bad, you can't fire them for changing their appearance because that is sex discrimination." Hooters/etc in particular may have a legal defense, but the vast majority of businesses do not.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but yes Hooters would be able to fire someone who transitioned and they have legal precedent to do so. Yes the ruling is freedom oriented.
Why did you use Hooters as an example and then say it didn't apply to them? lol.
Feel free to give another example :)
I’m sorry but males need to act like men, not women. There is a phrase in Latin, "Viriliter age" which means Act Manfully or Act Courageously.
Interesting. Ill have to actually read it now.