I could see that. Bullets are fast. Those shots go in and out, potentially causing less damage.
I also suppose the fact that a knife wielder would more easily aim for the core. I'd imagine most people shooting at cops are terrible shots and lucky if land a solid shot anywhere.
hollow points my friend, gotta use hydro-shocks goes in the size of a pea blows out the back the size of a quarter. certain types fragment leaving little shards of sharp copper inside the body for maximum damage.
For HD, I prefer a good .223/5.56 defensive load. Specifically Federal Tactical Bonded. Speer .223 Gold Dot are another excellent choice as well.
The terminal performance is much much better than any pistol cal, less risk of over penetration, and you get the control of a rifle, more ammo, and faster follow up shots.
Really ... “hydro-shocks”? Fragments for “maximum damage”? Are you sure you know which end of the gun is the dangerous one?
(Federal Hydro-Shok is a classic design, by which I mean dated; and as current design to pass FBI test protocol emphasizes penetration first, then expansion and weight retention, boutique fragmenting designs are Right Out).
From what I read there really isn't an advantage in hollow point.
Bullet becoming wider has the drawback of lower penetration.
For example if the attacker has his arms in front of his torso, an hollow point might not be able to go through his arm and still hit the torso with enough force left.
As a former armed hospital security officer, they addressed this type of thing in class. Any modifications to the round will be found during investigation. If you fired a modified round at a bad guy that results in injury or death, you will be held criminally and civilly liable for damages. Use factory ammo or ammo authorized by your site/client only, your lawyer will thank you.
Which is insane reasoning. If you're justified in killing the attacker, you're still justified if you modified your bullets to make his death more likely. The laws need to change.
From what I read there really isn't an advantage in hollow point.
That's horribly incorrect.
Bullet becoming wider has the drawback of lower penetration.
That's perhaps the #1 reason to carry hollow points for self defense reasons, reducing the risk of overpenetration. Do you even physics, bro?
The alternative is firing a solid ball at an attacker, and that ball passing right through the target and into other people, or in a home defense situation, that solid ball passing right through the target and punching through several walls and potentially into other dwellings.
I think you might have been thinking of semi-wadcutters rather than hollow points. Wadcutters are specially designed for shooting paper targets, as the blunt shape of them cuts out perfect circles in the target. Semi-wadcutters are a kind of hybrid between the wadcutter and a hollow point round, an attempt to make an all-purpose round, but there have been incidents of semi-wadcutters getting lodged in the arm, and even losing most of its stopping power when going through heavy clothing.
Of course, this also depends heavily on the bullet design... there are some semi-wadcutters that are quite effective, but some have all the effectiveness of a rubber bullet.
They don't go in an out if using hollow points. That shit fragments and shreds those insides. FMJ can kill your back-splash. Very irresponsible to use FMJ when defending yourself.
Not as irresponsible as the person trying to murder you. I understand your point and I agree with you but if all I can grab are fmjs I’m defending with fmjs. Hollow points are 100% more responsible though.
I've always hunted with hollowpoints and Ive never had a round not pass through. I guess if you using some really underpowered rounds at a far distance it could happen but in 20 years Ive not experienced it.
I know a lot of heavily independent, Trump supporting guys who would never fuck around with the hunting/gaming/fishing commission.
Hunting outside of season or with an illegal to hunt with weapon can get your gun confiscated and a major fine and a multi year / lifetime hunting ban.
The rules are usually around wildlife protection and safety of others. For example, in most states you can’t hunt with 223 or 556 because it is too small a caliber to kill an animal or prevent it running away if hit, to die later of internal injury.
Everyone’s calculus comes out differently, and everyone has to make their own decisions, but the end result of always following all the rules is an ever increasing list of rules some loser hundreds of miles away will keep demanding that you follow.
This is how we got to the 2a battleground being over the right to carry or whether we can own rifles based on how scary they look to pansies.
This is how we became conditioned to sit at an empty intersection just because the light is red.
This is how we allowed ourselves to be forced to wear stupid masks in public even if we are perfectly healthy.
The state is supposed to be subjected to us, not the other way around.
With that being said I don’t disagree with some of the various hunting restrictions unless it is truly a case of subsistence hunting on private property in which case the government can fuck off.
I actually don't think I've ever even bought soft points for any of my deer or hog rifles, and I've never heard of restrictions on hunting with hollow points, its nothing more than an expanding bullet. In 30-30 and 30-06 on whitetail I haven't had a round come apart even when passing through thick bone, they just fold out real nice and punch through everything. For hog I use ballistic tips in .270 with great results.
Strictly speaking, unless the person was absolutely determined to kill you and/or was under the influence, they're going to stop after being shot with either FMJ or a hollow point.
This is simply not true at all. Plenty of attacks occur where an attacker is shot multiple times, and they are still fighting or succeed in killing their target.
You need a physiological stop, not a mental one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FwUfFhFHs
Check out this crazy story. This stuff happens. Its not even that rare. Pistol cals are really shitty at stopping threats actually.
two people get in a gun fight, both shot multiple times in vital areas. The guy that made the final kill, a cop, was shot in the face with a .45ACP, he finally killed the guy by doing close contact shots to the side of the head.
Actual data shows that psychological stops are fairly common. Out of the studied cases (around 1700 or so over 10 years), 36% of assailants gave up after being shot a single time, regardless of where they were shot or what they were shot with.
In these cases with ANTIFA and similar people, they aren't expecting people to pull a gun out and shoot them. In the case you linked, the man was clearly determined to kill the cop, which is a group of people I made obvious reference to in my previous post.
No one's suggesting that you try to go for a psychological stop first.
I know psychological stops are common. Didn't say they weren't. Doesn't change the fact someone can still kill you after they have been shot....even in the face. You want to physically incapacitate the threat as soon as possible. By not having incapacitation as the #1 goal you open yourself up to harm. Its wishful thinking to bank on a psychological stop and dangerous to yourself and anyone else you may be defending.
So what am I wrong about then? When did I say that you should "bank on a psychological stop"? I'm pretty sure I said the opposite. My point still stands though. Based on the numbers, it doesn't really matter whether you choose FMJ or hollow point rounds as the vast majority of attackers are going to stop after being shot, one way or the other.
If we're going by "incapacitation is #1", then there's zero reason why you should carry a pistol and should only ever be carrying a centerfire rifle around. However, when we stop being autistic about a mantra and consider context, we can form a more realistic idea. Why do you think double tapping is a thing? Because we understand that there's a chance that someone isn't going to stop after one shot, regardless of what they're shot with (as I had already mentioned previously). That's why you almost reflexively shoot twice with a semi-automatic weapon, even with hollow points in the chamber or a centerfire rifle.
I'm no Delta Operator Physicist Ninja, but I'm pretty sure 9mm does more "damage" than a knife. Ya'll have to ask more questions when confronted with stats. Officers probably have higher survivability from gunshots due to things like wearing vests and also due to difficulty of shooting pistols accurately, which is largely what officers get shot at with. Knives on the other hand get used in extreme close range so there are less misses, more throat hits probably.
Stats are similar for normal people, too. The reason knife wounds are more lethal is they are larger, so cause faster bleeding. The number one reason people die from either is blood loss, if medical help doesn't arrive before you run out of blood, you die. Pistol wounds are thin lines, and can often be plugged up with a finger or two to reduce bleeding. Knife wounds are much larger, and much more difficult to slow down the bleeding of.
A knife can do more damage in 2 seconds with good hits than most people would think possible. A high quality blade and a few weeks of training can be terrifyingly deadly.
I can see what you're saying too. I'm just sharing a one-off opinion. There's not enough data in front of me to conclude that knife attacks are more or less dangerous that gun fire.
For instance, a fmg round would definitely cause less damage than a hollowpoint
Hollowpoints only expand like 25% of the time. Maybe 20%? I forget now. I think the clothing wads up in the tip and prevents the expansion, so about 80% of the time the hollowpoint is just an FMJ anyways. I don't have the study link. There's probably an encyclopedia of arguments back and forth about it, knowing my fellow gun owners.
Shot placement is what really matters. Heart, lungs, head.
I worked at the Cabela's store in Glendale, AZ about 10 years ago and we took several brands in different pistol calibers, tested them, and framed the results. Remington Golden Sabers were also pretty reliable, as were Federal Hydro-Shocks.
Right. Ballistics are complex for sure. I've always found it interesting (and I don't currently have any sources and willing to accept that I'm wrong), that a .22lr can cause a lot of damage because it apparently has the tendency to hits your bones and can follow them through your body, causing more damage.
Fuck that, it's why I'm a guy that has a shot gun with a chamber full of rotation
00 buckshot, slug, 00 buckshot, slug, and so on.
Pepper, maybe death, and certain death 12 guage slug for follow up...maybe clean up, or maybe the next dumb ass in line next in line.
Bright light on front with strobe function to disorient.
Pretty much head or thigh shot for killing an officer I would imagine. A stab to pretty much anywhere not covered by a vest could easily cause major damage (leg, neck, sides).
I too have studied the blade, and by studied I mean I watched "Surviving Edged Weapons" and went damn son no wonder police draw their fucking guns on crazy people.
The whole knife thing... there was a video on Reddit WPD that really woke me up. Somewhere in central America a dude named Carlos kills about 5 cops before they can take him down with their guns. Knife is very fast, accurate, and deadly within 20 feet.
Lol even that separate encounter is on camera, and they instigate by walking backwards into him holding their arms out to block his travel. He gives them several chances and after multiple strides back into him, he throws them to the ground. He shouldn't have to take that shit from anyone. In America, you can't just get in someone's way and repeatedly walk into them.
Yup. I saw that afterwards. The skateboard is still a weapon tho and being mobbed while retreating to the cries of 'I'm going to kill you' means high-velocity Darwin award time. Still skillfully executed tho.
Spez: I am wrong about this being photoshopped. There is clearly an object in his left hand that clearly drops to the ground when he collapses later.
Original Post: There was no knife. This is photoshopped. This image is just after he hit him with the skateboard and the board is dropped, and just before the attacker was shot. Fake News!
Hmm. I think it was more likely it was the side pieces (or bows) of the glasses. Plus I thought it was the guy on the right that hit him with the board.
After reviewing the higher quality video, he does have an object in his left hand. You can also see it drop from his hands when he collapses. It does look like you can see the 2 circles of glasses when they fall to the ground.
Nah, if he GLOWS he would have shot again to make sure the guy was dead then also shot the other people after reloading. This is legit and 100% justified.
It means He may be a plant by a Fed to stir up violence. Before we had other angles it looked like he charged in and tackled the guy and then ran back. But people seem to know him as part of a group so he may be legit. At first that situational awareness and shot accuracy under pressure looked pretty suspicious to me.
He ment it when he Said "I'm going to fucking kill you".. Shooter should not of grabed that person earlier but that doesnt invalidate self defence when you trying to get away from a murderouse mob...
At least one entry wound in the back, maybe a couple up front. They looked like low center mass. Might have missed lungs but hit liver and kidneys. I'm just guessing based on the whole video. They show the bandaid patrol trying to patch him up. Swat medic took awhile to work on him before moving him. I'd say he's going to have some pain to deal with.
I completely agree with you, but this dude drew his weapon while in tunnel vision, adrenaline pumping at the speed of light, he's got attackers on left and right, and he has to mag dump on this knife wielder before the guy finds his balls and charges.
He got the job done. It's never pretty. Truthfully, watching his composure up to the final altercation, and then the draw stroke, weapon presentation, and firing on target, I'd say he in fact did take weapons training classes. Or he's a LEO.
Anyone have higher quality source video? I downloaded the one I found on twitter and went through ti frame by frame and couldn't see a knife. Here is the screencap of this exact frame as far as I can tell:
It looks like something kinda small falls out of his hands in front of him when he drops... but it looked like his hands were open when he sees the gun and recoils.
Anyone got a link to higher quality video?
Spez: Something else to consider, you'll notice the guy had to pick the skateboard up off the ground before whacking the shooter with it. This likely means he never had a knife in his hand, because he would need to open both his hands to grip the board, which would drop anything he had in his hand. It's not IMPOSSIBLE to keep things in your hand and pick something else up, but it sure doesn't look like that is what happened. Plus, he would have had to not only pick up the board while maintaining grip on the knives, but continue to grip the knives after losing a grip on the board.
I'm going to be the one with the stones to call this probable fake news. I'll gladly retract in the face of better video, but I am betting on fake news as it stands.
Spez2: saw the facebook video, I see the frame in question. I am downloading it, will trim it and upload it in a few minutes. I MIGHT have to retract my prediction. Watching some more.
Spez3: I trimmed and re-uploaded the HD video from Facebook others posted:
I need to hit the sack, analyze away autists! I've got no problem saying I was dead wrong if I wake up and see you guys pull some good evidence from this. I included a fair amount of aftermath if any of the scene footage is relevant. 1:48 duration starting from when the video starts following the guy down the road in closeup.
Spez4: He TOTALLY has a knife in his left hand, I am still not sure about the right hand. Not that it matters, one knife can stab a guy plenty good. MY APOLOGIES for doubting you, but I doubt everyone nowadays. Night fellas!
People are conflating two issues, at this point I can only assume on purpose.
Was he hit being attacked by a skateboard? Yes. Was he being chased by an angry mob? Yes. Did he had justification to pull his gun and fire? Almost certainly yes.
Was he attacked by a knife - which was the basis for the entire post? No. It's fake news.
A title like "man fights off angry mob" would have been just fine - but no, we are reporting, and propping up falsehoods. Now that this incorrect account of events, and the photos we have "showing he had a knife" are circulating the internet it is only making .win members look like fools, and hurting our cause.
The TRUTH was in our favor - so why the need to spice it up with falsehoods?
check my post history. I'm getting downvoted and called an autist like crazy. People WANT to believe this shit. I dunno what to say. I WANT to be on the side that doesn't consume fake news.
no its glasses in his right hand if you watch the video of him walking up he has eyeglases in his right hand, you can also see the glasses droping on his way down. but there is what looks like a knife in his left hand at the time of attack
The glasses switch hands at some point because he has them in his right hand earlier on in the footage, but when he falls the item that was in his left hand everyone is calling the knife is clearly the glasses.
Doesn't matter if he had a knife. Video clearly shows him trying to hit the defender with a skateboard. Given that there were multiple attackers, and getting seriously injured or knocked out would give them access to the gun, I think it's reasonable for this guy to fear for his life.
Agreed. Self defense needs to make a yuge comeback in our society. None of this nannying bullshit on how you get to defend your life and property. A well armed society is a polite society.
Yeah that's fair, I was interpreting "property," as "my home," in which case, the last one, in a legal sense, is worded in a way that you could legally defend your home under the justification that the person was "likely to use unlawful force," while "committing a felony against someone in their home," -- the wording removes the necessity of having to be fearful for your life (as "unlawful force," isn't clearly defined and fairly ambiguous, and they're committing a felony against you in pretty much any reasonable circumstance you'd use your firearm against someone in defending your home) -- but even still, at least here, it's pretty widely known that "I was in fear for my life," are the magic words, and if someone is in your home/on your property or trying to get in, you can claim "self-defense," or "fearing for my life," in pretty much any circumstance in which you'd reasonably use a firearm against someone
edit: I should also add, the "if a person is likely to use unlawful force while committing a burglary," covers pretty much every other instance in regard to defending property -- a lot have argued the laws here are actually too loose, as people can essentially "get away with murder," because all there really needs to be as justification is a "perceived threat."
Another edit - I actually have a friend/former co-worker who killed a kid here in self-defense. He is actually in prison now, but they couldn't get him for killing the kid. It was essentially a small drug deal gone wrong. A kid from out of state (where they have incredibly strict gun laws, but incredibly lax pot laws... opposite of here) came up here to meet my friend. He brought a couple other friends with him. They had staged to rob him (my friend was trying to buy pot off the kid), and my friend was armed. Long story short, he was being strangled from behind (in a car), and his "friend" was in the front passenger seat punching him in the face. He managed to get his firearm out and shoot the kid, get out of the car, run away, and turn himself in.
He was initially let off on self-defense easily. The kids family was super wealthy and wasn't having it. They managed to get the case reopened, and he was put away on some bullshit drug offense, getting the maximum (7 years) on a felony possession charge (despite not having anything on him but the cash they were trying to steal from him). It's a really sad situation, for both parties. I don't know the kid who was killed, but he probably didn't deserve to die (even with beating the shit out of my friend and trying to rob him), and my friend is a good dude who definitely doesn't deserve to be in prison, even if he killed someone in self-defense, or tried to buy some pot
One of the reasons I'm absolutely against possession of drugs being a crime is exactly this: it gives police officers the power to put in jail anyone they choose.
Couldn't agree more. Then again, I research drug policy and addiction and have very strong convictions on this matter, so I'm admittedly biased (albeit all my views are fact/evidence-based). I could go on for pages about those biases though, so I'll spare you
edit - Screw it, I will add in one of the reasons/thoughts: currently, our prison population (which is by far the highest in the world, per capita) is comprised of over 50% inmates there for non-violent drug offenses. This prison population has risen roughly 800% since the inception of the war on drugs in the 70s. Add in that we now have a booming private prison industry -- by definition, prisoners are their merchandise or profit-margin. This creates a serious conflict of interest that incentivizes crime, and leads to things like lobbying for more laws, specifically, the criminalization of drug addicts (despite knowing that treatment and harm-reduction strategies are more effective, and less costly; many make the mistake of framing the argument as a moral one, like "they are sick people that need help, not criminals that need to be reprimanded," -- I agree with that, but don't think it's the strongest reason to argue for reformation of our drug laws)
Mmm yes it's difficult. Many grey areas.
In your scenario obviously if you end up in front of a judge with the pussy hat (you think I'm joking, it's real) you're screwed.
But I would say you should get off, because you grabbing your stuff back is not unlawful. You did not "escalate" nor caused the altercation.
More gray area would be if I punch you in the face, with a single punch and I stop. Then you pull out a knife, I pull out a gun and shoot you.
Imagine we are both men of same age / size. While I did attack you first, it's you who escalated to deadly force - in fact my punch does not give you the right to stab me.
But you said burglar. That's different.
If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night your claim to self defense is that you were protecting your life, not your property. If you acknowledge that you were only afraid he was going to steal you're going to jail.
In Italy we had this fucking problem because people were shooting at burglars and left wing activist judges didn't recognize that they were defending their lives. Apparently according to SJW judges you had to have a knife in your chest before you could assume they were there to harm you.
It got so bad that the based government we had for a few months passed a law that forced judges to interpret any house invasion as a threat to the life of the occupants. That means now an Italian home owner can scream "mamma mia!" and blast the intruder.
So you really must understand how things work in your area.
City of Albuquerque Mayor Tim Keller released this statement on Twitter: Our hearts go out the victim, his family, and witnesses whose lives were needlessly threatened tonight. This sculpture has now become an urgent matter of public safety....These fucking pussies. You can't defend yourself in Albuquerque I see. This mayor is an absolute piece of shit.
The mayor is right: my heart goes out to the victim too.
He's probably going to have some pain in the ass with the cops for wasting antifa, and that is just not right.
I dont give a shit, he was leaving and got jumped. He was thrown on the ground, beat with an object, and had a knife pulled on him. FUCK YOU for thinking someone can't defend themselves.
They'll likely claim he had an intent to shoot someone because he brought a weapon with him, forethought.
If he can demonstrate he's essentially an every-day carry kind of guy, that claim goes out the window and he merely assessed a deadly threat while trying to retreat and defended himself.
Reminder, always be carrying if legal where you are.
Wait so MSM is not covering this??
I am not seeing this being reported.
I guess establishment media does not wish to show anything that would demoralize their fag antifa troops ... all the while egging them on to continue confronting us.
Lol, he dresses up and brings his mommy to watch him die. LOL
Pretty sure it's a pair of glasses, and what we're seeing sticking out of his fist is the earpiece. You can see him drop whatever it is as he's falling, and it lands about 5-10 feet away roughly in the direction of the statue. About a minute later in the video, while they're working on him, you can see a pair of glasses lying in that area.
That said, as fast as things happened, the shooter could have seen a flash of black in the guy's hand and thought the same thing we did, that he had a knife, and that's what drove him to defend himself. That and the group of people trying to brain him with skateboards, of course.
There is no justice in America anymore. We made sure of that when the right wing mob was so quick to call the Charlottseville guy a terrorist despite the evidence saying he was driving home and his car was attacked.
Getting called racist is now a worse punishment than losing your job, your freedom, or even your life.
It's not just them, our groups were so quick to denounce and call that person a terrorist so they wouldn't get called violent by the media, including this sub on reddit.
Look at how well that turned out, we still got the same attacks and were forced to move off reddit anyway.
Not to mention all the pandering to black people. I don't know if it was that we felt the need to demonstrate to the Reddit admins that we are not racist, but there was always among the top posts the pic of a random non-white person with a MAGA hat.
The Trump train welcomes everyone of course, but I hate the concept that we need to prove that we're not racist.
It gets even worse if you follow the trial against him, their evidence that it was premeditated, which they then leaked to the media.
His mom, who he lives with, told him to be careful, and he replied "I'm not the one who needs to be careful"
He insulted the mother of the woman who got killed while he was in jail in a private phone call with his mom, because insulting someone who called you a terrorist is now unreasonable.
He liked a few facebook memes about running over protesters when they block the street. This was their big piece of evidence which sounds bad at first but is really meaningless, everyone was liking those memes.
You can beat the rap but not the ride. He was a conservative defending himself from leftists, which is exactly what they don't want us doing. So even if they can't stick the charges in court, they will surely drag him through as much hell as they can before it finally gets thrown out for self defense.
It looks like a knife in that frame (in the above screenshot), but looks like that might have just been glasses in another frame. Both hands are closed, as if he's holding two objects.
Honestly does it matter. If it looks like a knife to us.
If I'm the shooter, "He said he was going to kill me, hit me with a weapon, then pulled out what looked like a knife while I was being surrounded. I feared for my life."
In America, that's it. See ya later, have a good day
No, not fake! I thought the same and posted a condemation. Then I saw the higher quality video. You can see him dropping it when he collapses at about 9 seconds in:
https://streamable.com/9a9jkz
Spez: It may be glasses looking at about 11 seconds in.
It could be a blade that is easy to conceal. If we definitively called this a knife yes, but there is nothing wrong with pointing out there is an unknown object in the assailants hand. Even if it is something innocent, it adds to the defense of the shooter when added to the other facts. It allows defense attorneys addition ground to claim the defendant had a reasonable belief that his life was threatened as he may not know what the object is either. Not that there is a shortage of that evidence with the assailant attacking the victim's head with a blunt object.
Not sure what was in his right hand, but I'm 90% sure it wasn't a knife. None of the frames show anything sticking out past his thumb and index finger.
Knife wounds can sever more blood vessels causing more trauma and rapid blood loss, lowering blood pressure and causing shock. They are often far more deadly than a gunshot wound.
I've gone through the high Res video frame by frame. He's holding glasses in his left hand. He drops them from his left hand after being shot. I could not see a knife anywhere.
He's still an idiot, and the gun guy is an idiot too. He kept taking shots after the guy was already running. He was also pushing over people earlier in the crowd, provoking people to turn on him. He's not innocent and we shouldn't be taking his side.
For all we know he could have been hired to incite violence.and brought the gun so he could claim self defense when he was inevitably attacked.
Yes, and so are the people going out to those lefties, pushing them around, and then shooting them when they get chased. What don't you get? This idiot isn't "our guy".
He's not getting charged for shooting the antifa guy people, he's getting charged because he freaking shoved multiple women to the ground a few minutes earlier when he was larping in front of a stupid statute. It was at that moment the crowd removed him.
I wouldn’t have done that but she did deserve it. She was pushing him and it doesn’t matter if she used her back or not. She actually made pretty hard physical contact with him at the onset of the incident. It knocks him back a couple of feet.
Apparently the cucks were trying to take a statue down and he wanted to protect it but got overwhelmed and decided to leave peacefully. The "peaceful" protestors had other ideas and were trying to beat him up. One guy literally said"We're going to kill you!" He pulls out his gun after a scuffle and shoots the guy with the knife.
This is yet another example of how Orwellian our society is getting when Self defense is violence, but rioting is peaceful. News media is painting this guy as some crazy gunman who went there to kill "peaceful protesters", and the man who got shot as some hero who threw himself in front of the bullets to save everyone. I sincerely hope that more people have enough common sense to see through it and vote that cuck mayor out of office.
I could see that. Bullets are fast. Those shots go in and out, potentially causing less damage.
I also suppose the fact that a knife wielder would more easily aim for the core. I'd imagine most people shooting at cops are terrible shots and lucky if land a solid shot anywhere.
hollow points my friend, gotta use hydro-shocks goes in the size of a pea blows out the back the size of a quarter. certain types fragment leaving little shards of sharp copper inside the body for maximum damage.
Use pinky size bullets to create thumb sized holes.
heres all the tears for a shot antifa terrorist:
your eyes actually get dryer ;)
Wow, that's a not of tears!
Depends on the cartridge size. 9mm sure, but when you start getting into the pocket pistol calibers, FMJ is sometimes better
22 TCM my friend
Which pistol shoots that? Not the most common caliber
RIA 1911 A2 https://armscor.com/firearms/ria/tcm-series/
Paul Harrell (22tcm vs 9mm): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGtjOOf1dxA
RIA 1911 is not very reliable as demonstrated by Paul Harrell, but if another handgun ever spec'd for it I'd buy it in a heart beat.
Thoughts on the new Ruger 5.7? I figure it's in the same category of badass fast cartridge pistol.
Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot is what you seek. Hydro Shok are older technology and less consistent. Still better than FMJ though.
Speer Gold Dot in 9mm is the perfect HD round.
For HD, I prefer a good .223/5.56 defensive load. Specifically Federal Tactical Bonded. Speer .223 Gold Dot are another excellent choice as well.
The terminal performance is much much better than any pistol cal, less risk of over penetration, and you get the control of a rifle, more ammo, and faster follow up shots.
Really ... “hydro-shocks”? Fragments for “maximum damage”? Are you sure you know which end of the gun is the dangerous one?
(Federal Hydro-Shok is a classic design, by which I mean dated; and as current design to pass FBI test protocol emphasizes penetration first, then expansion and weight retention, boutique fragmenting designs are Right Out).
I like to know that if I blast someone they are going to know it and its going to hurt as much as possible.
From what I read there really isn't an advantage in hollow point. Bullet becoming wider has the drawback of lower penetration.
For example if the attacker has his arms in front of his torso, an hollow point might not be able to go through his arm and still hit the torso with enough force left.
EDIT: thank you for correcting me, I was wrong.
I've heard of people carving crosses on hpbbullets so it will break off into 4 fragments after initial penetration
As a former armed hospital security officer, they addressed this type of thing in class. Any modifications to the round will be found during investigation. If you fired a modified round at a bad guy that results in injury or death, you will be held criminally and civilly liable for damages. Use factory ammo or ammo authorized by your site/client only, your lawyer will thank you.
Don't forget hand loads. Don't use bullets you've reloaded yourself as well. Like you said just use store bought unmodified in any way bullets.
Which is insane reasoning. If you're justified in killing the attacker, you're still justified if you modified your bullets to make his death more likely. The laws need to change.
I saw this demonstrated using a knife and hammer.
That's horribly incorrect.
That's perhaps the #1 reason to carry hollow points for self defense reasons, reducing the risk of overpenetration. Do you even physics, bro?
The alternative is firing a solid ball at an attacker, and that ball passing right through the target and into other people, or in a home defense situation, that solid ball passing right through the target and punching through several walls and potentially into other dwellings.
Ok fine. I just did some research and I was wrong. HP penetrate deep enough and FMJ have great risk of overpenetration.
Load some of each. Not a problem.
Of course, we're talking academically here.
It's proven that the only thing that really matters is shot placement.
We were talking about self defense, where every caliber is able to penetrate human skin.
What calibers did you see not able to penetrate an elk hide?
Stop shooting elk with your 25 auto!
I think you might have been thinking of semi-wadcutters rather than hollow points. Wadcutters are specially designed for shooting paper targets, as the blunt shape of them cuts out perfect circles in the target. Semi-wadcutters are a kind of hybrid between the wadcutter and a hollow point round, an attempt to make an all-purpose round, but there have been incidents of semi-wadcutters getting lodged in the arm, and even losing most of its stopping power when going through heavy clothing.
Of course, this also depends heavily on the bullet design... there are some semi-wadcutters that are quite effective, but some have all the effectiveness of a rubber bullet.
They don't go in an out if using hollow points. That shit fragments and shreds those insides. FMJ can kill your back-splash. Very irresponsible to use FMJ when defending yourself.
Not as irresponsible as the person trying to murder you. I understand your point and I agree with you but if all I can grab are fmjs I’m defending with fmjs. Hollow points are 100% more responsible though.
FMJ is actually the more appropriate choice in the smaller calibers like 32 ACP
It’s only clear gel testing but https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/
I've always hunted with hollowpoints and Ive never had a round not pass through. I guess if you using some really underpowered rounds at a far distance it could happen but in 20 years Ive not experienced it.
Your state let’s you hunt with hollow points?
“State” “Lets” “You”
Maybe he just doesn’t ask permission
I know a lot of heavily independent, Trump supporting guys who would never fuck around with the hunting/gaming/fishing commission.
Hunting outside of season or with an illegal to hunt with weapon can get your gun confiscated and a major fine and a multi year / lifetime hunting ban.
The rules are usually around wildlife protection and safety of others. For example, in most states you can’t hunt with 223 or 556 because it is too small a caliber to kill an animal or prevent it running away if hit, to die later of internal injury.
Everyone’s calculus comes out differently, and everyone has to make their own decisions, but the end result of always following all the rules is an ever increasing list of rules some loser hundreds of miles away will keep demanding that you follow.
This is how we got to the 2a battleground being over the right to carry or whether we can own rifles based on how scary they look to pansies.
This is how we became conditioned to sit at an empty intersection just because the light is red.
This is how we allowed ourselves to be forced to wear stupid masks in public even if we are perfectly healthy.
The state is supposed to be subjected to us, not the other way around.
With that being said I don’t disagree with some of the various hunting restrictions unless it is truly a case of subsistence hunting on private property in which case the government can fuck off.
Hunting with hollow points?
I actually don't think I've ever even bought soft points for any of my deer or hog rifles, and I've never heard of restrictions on hunting with hollow points, its nothing more than an expanding bullet. In 30-30 and 30-06 on whitetail I haven't had a round come apart even when passing through thick bone, they just fold out real nice and punch through everything. For hog I use ballistic tips in .270 with great results.
Strictly speaking, unless the person was absolutely determined to kill you and/or was under the influence, they're going to stop after being shot with either FMJ or a hollow point.
This is simply not true at all. Plenty of attacks occur where an attacker is shot multiple times, and they are still fighting or succeed in killing their target.
You need a physiological stop, not a mental one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FwUfFhFHs Check out this crazy story. This stuff happens. Its not even that rare. Pistol cals are really shitty at stopping threats actually.
two people get in a gun fight, both shot multiple times in vital areas. The guy that made the final kill, a cop, was shot in the face with a .45ACP, he finally killed the guy by doing close contact shots to the side of the head.
Definitely give it a listen.
Pistols suck at stopping threats.
Actual data shows that psychological stops are fairly common. Out of the studied cases (around 1700 or so over 10 years), 36% of assailants gave up after being shot a single time, regardless of where they were shot or what they were shot with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycYxb-zNwc
In these cases with ANTIFA and similar people, they aren't expecting people to pull a gun out and shoot them. In the case you linked, the man was clearly determined to kill the cop, which is a group of people I made obvious reference to in my previous post.
No one's suggesting that you try to go for a psychological stop first.
I know psychological stops are common. Didn't say they weren't. Doesn't change the fact someone can still kill you after they have been shot....even in the face. You want to physically incapacitate the threat as soon as possible. By not having incapacitation as the #1 goal you open yourself up to harm. Its wishful thinking to bank on a psychological stop and dangerous to yourself and anyone else you may be defending.
So what am I wrong about then? When did I say that you should "bank on a psychological stop"? I'm pretty sure I said the opposite. My point still stands though. Based on the numbers, it doesn't really matter whether you choose FMJ or hollow point rounds as the vast majority of attackers are going to stop after being shot, one way or the other.
If we're going by "incapacitation is #1", then there's zero reason why you should carry a pistol and should only ever be carrying a centerfire rifle around. However, when we stop being autistic about a mantra and consider context, we can form a more realistic idea. Why do you think double tapping is a thing? Because we understand that there's a chance that someone isn't going to stop after one shot, regardless of what they're shot with (as I had already mentioned previously). That's why you almost reflexively shoot twice with a semi-automatic weapon, even with hollow points in the chamber or a centerfire rifle.
I'm no Delta Operator Physicist Ninja, but I'm pretty sure 9mm does more "damage" than a knife. Ya'll have to ask more questions when confronted with stats. Officers probably have higher survivability from gunshots due to things like wearing vests and also due to difficulty of shooting pistols accurately, which is largely what officers get shot at with. Knives on the other hand get used in extreme close range so there are less misses, more throat hits probably.
Stats are similar for normal people, too. The reason knife wounds are more lethal is they are larger, so cause faster bleeding. The number one reason people die from either is blood loss, if medical help doesn't arrive before you run out of blood, you die. Pistol wounds are thin lines, and can often be plugged up with a finger or two to reduce bleeding. Knife wounds are much larger, and much more difficult to slow down the bleeding of.
This is the correct answer. Until enough blood drains out to cause loss of consciousness, the attacker could keep coming for 4-5 minutes.
So with firearms, you need enough rounds to increase blood loss and faster unconsciousness.
The remedy to this is shot placement.
CNS and mobility shots shut the body down instantly.
Either you get one in the brainpan and it's game over, or a heart hit, or the hip girdle. If they can't walk they can't chase.
Heads and hips, kids.
See the Mozambique drill and the zipper drill.
A knife can do more damage in 2 seconds with good hits than most people would think possible. A high quality blade and a few weeks of training can be terrifyingly deadly.
While you chased girls and partied, I studied the blade.
This is The Way.
I can see what you're saying too. I'm just sharing a one-off opinion. There's not enough data in front of me to conclude that knife attacks are more or less dangerous that gun fire.
For instance, a fmg round would definitely cause less damage than a hollowpoint
Hollowpoints only expand like 25% of the time. Maybe 20%? I forget now. I think the clothing wads up in the tip and prevents the expansion, so about 80% of the time the hollowpoint is just an FMJ anyways. I don't have the study link. There's probably an encyclopedia of arguments back and forth about it, knowing my fellow gun owners.
Shot placement is what really matters. Heart, lungs, head.
115gr 9mm is what I understand to be the better choice for HP. As well as quality ammo, as you say.
124 and 147 actually.
I worked at the Cabela's store in Glendale, AZ about 10 years ago and we took several brands in different pistol calibers, tested them, and framed the results. Remington Golden Sabers were also pretty reliable, as were Federal Hydro-Shocks.
Right. Ballistics are complex for sure. I've always found it interesting (and I don't currently have any sources and willing to accept that I'm wrong), that a .22lr can cause a lot of damage because it apparently has the tendency to hits your bones and can follow them through your body, causing more damage.
Hits your arm, comes out your shoulder or elbow.
That's some grade A gunshop talk right there. Firearms community is a place full of magical wonders.
A trauma surgeon’s experience says to use a rifle if possible.
https://www.policemag.com/374542/a-trauma-surgeon-talks-about-wound-ballistics-and-stopping-power
What he said is correct, and a 40gr hollow 22lr does plenty damage. Would I choose it over 9mm? no.
Fuck that, it's why I'm a guy that has a shot gun with a chamber full of rotation 00 buckshot, slug, 00 buckshot, slug, and so on. Pepper, maybe death, and certain death 12 guage slug for follow up...maybe clean up, or maybe the next dumb ass in line next in line. Bright light on front with strobe function to disorient.
The problem there is that 00 buck and slugs typically have way more penetration than a non-FMJ .223/5.56.
Here's some interesting tests on drywall for a range of calibers and bullet types:
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html
It's not what he was saying. read it again, slowly.
Here, read this at your leisure: don't be a fag
Says the cry baby with zero reading comprehension. Aww poor baby.
💯
Pretty much head or thigh shot for killing an officer I would imagine. A stab to pretty much anywhere not covered by a vest could easily cause major damage (leg, neck, sides).
Someone’s seen Surviving Edged Weapons.
Red Letter Media brought me there...
That's a sign you're good people.
Check out Warrior Poet Society.
I too have studied the blade, and by studied I mean I watched "Surviving Edged Weapons" and went damn son no wonder police draw their fucking guns on crazy people.
Now the world has gone to shit, and you run to agentndo...because he studied the blade.
The whole knife thing... there was a video on Reddit WPD that really woke me up. Somewhere in central America a dude named Carlos kills about 5 cops before they can take him down with their guns. Knife is very fast, accurate, and deadly within 20 feet.
It happened in Nicaragua.
Viewer discretion advised
Potato quality. I know it was much clearer when I saw it last. Wish I knew where!
That's the one. Anyone who thinks police shooting a guy with a knife is excessive... they need to watch that video.
Yea I saw that one. A must watch for anyone who needs motivation to build some strength.
Even deadlier within striking distance.
Eh, as if that wasn't bad, someone tries to hit him in the head with skateboard trucks.
That shit will cause brain damage
I saw the newest footage and I wondered why he didn't shoot the skateboard fag. Now I know.
Christ - even under those circumstances he evaluated and targeted the person with the legally recognized weapons for action. And fast.
I'm impressed.
He did hit the guy with the skateboard.
The guy shot here picked it up off the ground and hit him, and dropped it as he hit.
Likely because he is holding the kinfe too.
I'm surprised only one shot hit the dude.
That he didn't hit any other random bystanders in that big crowd behind him is pretty good.
He did angle himself so his shots were not going at the crowd, weather that was just lucky or good training is hard to say.
He did appear to pull out and fire the gun very smoothly and skillfully.
Probably all the CIA training he got.
They’re going to say he started it cuz some witnesses will say he said something they didn’t like. Our society is so fucked
Lol even that separate encounter is on camera, and they instigate by walking backwards into him holding their arms out to block his travel. He gives them several chances and after multiple strides back into him, he throws them to the ground. He shouldn't have to take that shit from anyone. In America, you can't just get in someone's way and repeatedly walk into them.
And he'll likely go to jail for being accused of saying something stupid in high school.
For being a white guy defending himself
It's a pair of glasses, not a knife. Still deserved acute lead poisoning though.
Yup. I saw that afterwards. The skateboard is still a weapon tho and being mobbed while retreating to the cries of 'I'm going to kill you' means high-velocity Darwin award time. Still skillfully executed tho.
Spez: I am wrong about this being photoshopped. There is clearly an object in his left hand that clearly drops to the ground when he collapses later.
Original Post: There was no knife. This is photoshopped. This image is just after he hit him with the skateboard and the board is dropped, and just before the attacker was shot. Fake News!
https://imgur.com/a/hwaMifs
Good work!
Hmm. I think it was more likely it was the side pieces (or bows) of the glasses. Plus I thought it was the guy on the right that hit him with the board.
After reviewing the higher quality video, he does have an object in his left hand. You can also see it drop from his hands when he collapses. It does look like you can see the 2 circles of glasses when they fall to the ground.
https://imgur.com/a/hwaMifs
I honestly don't give a fuck anymore.
Yeah i'm pretty indifferent to what the guy was, or wasn't holding.
He glows. I’m suspicious.
Might wanna check your eyes, then. This was the clearest cut case of self defense, filmed from multiple angles, that you'll see in some time.
guy above was saying he’s a plant, not saying i agree, just giving context to glows
I'm familiar with glow in the dark CIANs.
Nah, if he GLOWS he would have shot again to make sure the guy was dead then also shot the other people after reloading. This is legit and 100% justified.
In that case the CIA needs a raise
It means He may be a plant by a Fed to stir up violence. Before we had other angles it looked like he charged in and tackled the guy and then ran back. But people seem to know him as part of a group so he may be legit. At first that situational awareness and shot accuracy under pressure looked pretty suspicious to me.
He ment it when he Said "I'm going to fucking kill you".. Shooter should not of grabed that person earlier but that doesnt invalidate self defence when you trying to get away from a murderouse mob...
It's not debatable, he is unquestionably in the right and she should be arrested for terrorism.
Easily enough for self defense in court (in my experience watching trials online)
I'm hoping 'stable' means he's brain dead and he's merely a meat puppet to a machine.
Antifa = already brain dead
Nice that I set that joke up on express delivery no?
At least one entry wound in the back, maybe a couple up front. They looked like low center mass. Might have missed lungs but hit liver and kidneys. I'm just guessing based on the whole video. They show the bandaid patrol trying to patch him up. Swat medic took awhile to work on him before moving him. I'd say he's going to have some pain to deal with.
Train train train people
Inches matter
I completely agree with you, but this dude drew his weapon while in tunnel vision, adrenaline pumping at the speed of light, he's got attackers on left and right, and he has to mag dump on this knife wielder before the guy finds his balls and charges.
He got the job done. It's never pretty. Truthfully, watching his composure up to the final altercation, and then the draw stroke, weapon presentation, and firing on target, I'd say he in fact did take weapons training classes. Or he's a LEO.
There's always room for improvement, never get complacent.
Good enough is great, better is better, and tomorrow is an opportunity to add on top of wherever you are now
Where can we see the whole video?
It's posted somewhere on .win
Yup, I found it, no worries.
Those are usually the worst. Have to go in and repair bowel, and they often get septic
There was a good splash of bodily fluids after one of those shots.
Who can say what type of fluid tho?
Soy
My sides!
Watching it at 1/4 speed it looked like it came out of his pack, like a water bottle exploding
Blood?
Latte
How would you tell?
wait he's still alive?
took 4 shots and dropped
Train people. Half an inch can matter.
Only 1 shot hit. He is listed as in stable but critical condition.
I hope he died so that based patriot doesn't have to pay the cunt's healthcare bills
I hope one of those bullets was a redpill.
Anyone have higher quality source video? I downloaded the one I found on twitter and went through ti frame by frame and couldn't see a knife. Here is the screencap of this exact frame as far as I can tell:
https://i.maga.host/jtCHhBz.png
Pretty blurry grab, but I watched it over and over and couldn't make out a knife. I re-uploaded the video I found here:
https://streamable.com/on1cfp
It looks like something kinda small falls out of his hands in front of him when he drops... but it looked like his hands were open when he sees the gun and recoils.
Anyone got a link to higher quality video?
Spez:
Something else to consider, you'll notice the guy had to pick the skateboard up off the ground before whacking the shooter with it. This likely means he never had a knife in his hand, because he would need to open both his hands to grip the board, which would drop anything he had in his hand. It's not IMPOSSIBLE to keep things in your hand and pick something else up, but it sure doesn't look like that is what happened. Plus, he would have had to not only pick up the board while maintaining grip on the knives, but continue to grip the knives after losing a grip on the board.I'm going to be the one with the stones to call this probable fake news. I'll gladly retract in the face of better video, but I am betting on fake news as it stands.Spez2: saw the facebook video, I see the frame in question. I am downloading it, will trim it and upload it in a few minutes. I MIGHT have to retract my prediction. Watching some more.
Spez3: I trimmed and re-uploaded the HD video from Facebook others posted:
https://streamable.com/9a9jkz
I need to hit the sack, analyze away autists! I've got no problem saying I was dead wrong if I wake up and see you guys pull some good evidence from this. I included a fair amount of aftermath if any of the scene footage is relevant. 1:48 duration starting from when the video starts following the guy down the road in closeup.
Spez4: He TOTALLY has a knife in his left hand, I am still not sure about the right hand. Not that it matters, one knife can stab a guy plenty good. MY APOLOGIES for doubting you, but I doubt everyone nowadays. Night fellas!
4:18 here https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=578681816407150
Someone needs to download and clip the mp4
Yup you can see it in that clip. When I was rewatching it my stomach dropped when I saw what was in that dudes hand.
Why did your stomach drop over glasses?
http://prntscr.com/t14vkq
At 3:18, way before they chase him down the street you can see the same guy holding his glasses.
This was pretty plainly obvious after a minute or two of rewatching.
How there are people still shouting "knife!" is bothering me.
‘Knife’?
‘No knife’?
Moot.
He hit him in the head with the edge or the metal truck of a skateboard: while he was being attacked by two others and while his weapon was drawn.
The man had just cause to use deadly force.
This exactly. Forget the knife lmao
It's not moot.
People are conflating two issues, at this point I can only assume on purpose.
Was he hit being attacked by a skateboard? Yes. Was he being chased by an angry mob? Yes. Did he had justification to pull his gun and fire? Almost certainly yes.
Was he attacked by a knife - which was the basis for the entire post? No. It's fake news.
A title like "man fights off angry mob" would have been just fine - but no, we are reporting, and propping up falsehoods. Now that this incorrect account of events, and the photos we have "showing he had a knife" are circulating the internet it is only making .win members look like fools, and hurting our cause.
The TRUTH was in our favor - so why the need to spice it up with falsehoods?
check my post history. I'm getting downvoted and called an autist like crazy. People WANT to believe this shit. I dunno what to say. I WANT to be on the side that doesn't consume fake news.
https://imgur.com/a/hwaMifs
Wet bandit down lmfao
I'll do it, give me a few minutes.
guy isn't the main link here an image of the knives in his hands?
they look like knives to me.
Knife - left hand.
Sheath- right hand.
no its glasses in his right hand if you watch the video of him walking up he has eyeglases in his right hand, you can also see the glasses droping on his way down. but there is what looks like a knife in his left hand at the time of attack
He's right. http://prntscr.com/t14vkq
http://prntscr.com/t14vkq
I am uploading it too, didnt see this comment. It might get taken down so its worth a few of us uploading
https://streamable.com/9a9jkz
Left hand is eyeglasses, fairly obvious in future frames where you see them fall from his hand. The curve is from one side of the glasses.
Right hand is still a mistery.
Most of the rioters are like this.
Smart people wouldn't attack people with skateboards.
The glasses switch hands at some point because he has them in his right hand earlier on in the footage, but when he falls the item that was in his left hand everyone is calling the knife is clearly the glasses.
comments on that are good, for the most part.
http://prntscr.com/t14vkq
Doesn't matter if he had a knife. Video clearly shows him trying to hit the defender with a skateboard. Given that there were multiple attackers, and getting seriously injured or knocked out would give them access to the gun, I think it's reasonable for this guy to fear for his life.
I did find this from facebook, much better quality and looks like where OP got the screenshot (@roughly 4:17)
Trimmed and re-uploaded here: https://streamable.com/9a9jkz
You're the real MVP! Thank you
That's a shitty af clip fam.
https://i.imgur.com/A6y0ipY.png
This guy in the pinned thread posted it
High quality now on youtube here https://thedonald.win/p/FzFtxhTD/
I mean you could've just posted the YouTube link
Edit- but I watched. Attack man with weapon, get shot. Logic checks out.
Unpopular opinion: It doesn't matter if he had a knife or not.
You put your hands on someone, refuse to let them go, try and surround then with multiple people, deadly force is absolutely warranted.
Agreed. Self defense needs to make a yuge comeback in our society. None of this nannying bullshit on how you get to defend your life and property. A well armed society is a polite society.
Reminder to avoid pedes getting into trouble: lethal force is never justified to defend property.
(A theoretical exception only in Texas but there's so many tests that it practically doesn't exist)
Where I'm at, stand your ground/castle doctrine laws are pretty solid, and you can defend life and property in pretty much all expected scenarios:
That looks good, but what I said still stands. You can't use deadly force to defend property.
What you quoted means that if someone breaks into your house it's treated as a potential threat to your life, like I discussed in my other response.
But if you're in your house and someone is stealing your car outside, you can't go out shooting.
You can, however, go out to confront them and if they attack you then shoot (which is where stand your ground saves your ass)
Yeah that's fair, I was interpreting "property," as "my home," in which case, the last one, in a legal sense, is worded in a way that you could legally defend your home under the justification that the person was "likely to use unlawful force," while "committing a felony against someone in their home," -- the wording removes the necessity of having to be fearful for your life (as "unlawful force," isn't clearly defined and fairly ambiguous, and they're committing a felony against you in pretty much any reasonable circumstance you'd use your firearm against someone in defending your home) -- but even still, at least here, it's pretty widely known that "I was in fear for my life," are the magic words, and if someone is in your home/on your property or trying to get in, you can claim "self-defense," or "fearing for my life," in pretty much any circumstance in which you'd reasonably use a firearm against someone
edit: I should also add, the "if a person is likely to use unlawful force while committing a burglary," covers pretty much every other instance in regard to defending property -- a lot have argued the laws here are actually too loose, as people can essentially "get away with murder," because all there really needs to be as justification is a "perceived threat."
Another edit - I actually have a friend/former co-worker who killed a kid here in self-defense. He is actually in prison now, but they couldn't get him for killing the kid. It was essentially a small drug deal gone wrong. A kid from out of state (where they have incredibly strict gun laws, but incredibly lax pot laws... opposite of here) came up here to meet my friend. He brought a couple other friends with him. They had staged to rob him (my friend was trying to buy pot off the kid), and my friend was armed. Long story short, he was being strangled from behind (in a car), and his "friend" was in the front passenger seat punching him in the face. He managed to get his firearm out and shoot the kid, get out of the car, run away, and turn himself in.
He was initially let off on self-defense easily. The kids family was super wealthy and wasn't having it. They managed to get the case reopened, and he was put away on some bullshit drug offense, getting the maximum (7 years) on a felony possession charge (despite not having anything on him but the cash they were trying to steal from him). It's a really sad situation, for both parties. I don't know the kid who was killed, but he probably didn't deserve to die (even with beating the shit out of my friend and trying to rob him), and my friend is a good dude who definitely doesn't deserve to be in prison, even if he killed someone in self-defense, or tried to buy some pot
Thanks for sharing the story, very interesting.
One of the reasons I'm absolutely against possession of drugs being a crime is exactly this: it gives police officers the power to put in jail anyone they choose.
Couldn't agree more. Then again, I research drug policy and addiction and have very strong convictions on this matter, so I'm admittedly biased (albeit all my views are fact/evidence-based). I could go on for pages about those biases though, so I'll spare you
edit - Screw it, I will add in one of the reasons/thoughts: currently, our prison population (which is by far the highest in the world, per capita) is comprised of over 50% inmates there for non-violent drug offenses. This prison population has risen roughly 800% since the inception of the war on drugs in the 70s. Add in that we now have a booming private prison industry -- by definition, prisoners are their merchandise or profit-margin. This creates a serious conflict of interest that incentivizes crime, and leads to things like lobbying for more laws, specifically, the criminalization of drug addicts (despite knowing that treatment and harm-reduction strategies are more effective, and less costly; many make the mistake of framing the argument as a moral one, like "they are sick people that need help, not criminals that need to be reprimanded," -- I agree with that, but don't think it's the strongest reason to argue for reformation of our drug laws)
Mmm yes it's difficult. Many grey areas. In your scenario obviously if you end up in front of a judge with the pussy hat (you think I'm joking, it's real) you're screwed.
But I would say you should get off, because you grabbing your stuff back is not unlawful. You did not "escalate" nor caused the altercation.
More gray area would be if I punch you in the face, with a single punch and I stop. Then you pull out a knife, I pull out a gun and shoot you. Imagine we are both men of same age / size. While I did attack you first, it's you who escalated to deadly force - in fact my punch does not give you the right to stab me.
Interesting, what do you think?
Can you shoot the burglar in the leg?
Oh no, shooting in the leg is still deadly force.
But you said burglar. That's different. If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night your claim to self defense is that you were protecting your life, not your property. If you acknowledge that you were only afraid he was going to steal you're going to jail.
In Italy we had this fucking problem because people were shooting at burglars and left wing activist judges didn't recognize that they were defending their lives. Apparently according to SJW judges you had to have a knife in your chest before you could assume they were there to harm you.
It got so bad that the based government we had for a few months passed a law that forced judges to interpret any house invasion as a threat to the life of the occupants. That means now an Italian home owner can scream "mamma mia!" and blast the intruder.
So you really must understand how things work in your area.
One of the freaks had a knife. Thats 100% justified self defense.
Where were the police? Were they busy taking a knee or laying prone in the street?
This is what happens when police refuse to do their job. Where is the GoFundMe for this guy?
Stand down?! They need to straight up turn against them!
They would have killed that patriot if he hadn’t defended himself.
They would have definitely taken his gun and most likely murdered someone with it.
He was hitting him with metal trucks on a skateboard which can kill you. He didnt need a knife to deserve to be shot.
Get out of jail free card.
yeah but he pushed some fat cunt who kept hitting him first, so that means he should have just sat there and died.
you NEVER EVER EVER NEVER HIT A [email protected]@!!! reeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........ee
Are we sure it was a woman? You can't tell with fagtifa.
Fucker had it coming.
City of Albuquerque Mayor Tim Keller released this statement on Twitter: Our hearts go out the victim, his family, and witnesses whose lives were needlessly threatened tonight. This sculpture has now become an urgent matter of public safety....These fucking pussies. You can't defend yourself in Albuquerque I see. This mayor is an absolute piece of shit.
The mayor is right: my heart goes out to the victim too. He's probably going to have some pain in the ass with the cops for wasting antifa, and that is just not right.
The way he slumped over after he shot, I genuinely feel bad for him. Probably thought he killed him. I would have a hard time if I killed someone.
I dont give a shit, he was leaving and got jumped. He was thrown on the ground, beat with an object, and had a knife pulled on him. FUCK YOU for thinking someone can't defend themselves.
It's Anaconda, known autistic shill.
Aka fastmandan
Evading his first ban. The mods need to stop being pussies and finally get rid of him.
The woman was forcably pushing him. He moved her out of the way. She started the game.
but but but i thought you liberals want equal rights. i thought you think women are as strong as men
Solid advice. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight
You loose!
They'll likely claim he had an intent to shoot someone because he brought a weapon with him, forethought.
If he can demonstrate he's essentially an every-day carry kind of guy, that claim goes out the window and he merely assessed a deadly threat while trying to retreat and defended himself.
Reminder, always be carrying if legal where you are.
"If they bring a knife, you bring a gun." Barack Obama during one of campaign speeches for his first term as President.
A Meme in the making
Wait so MSM is not covering this?? I am not seeing this being reported.
I guess establishment media does not wish to show anything that would demoralize their fag antifa troops ... all the while egging them on to continue confronting us.
Lol, he dresses up and brings his mommy to watch him die. LOL
I'm glad Antifa got shot
His mom WAS there! Can't make this shit up.
Later when the medics are taking care of him and loading him in the ambulance, you hear an older woman say "that's my son"
I assume the shooter was arrested, is he in jail? Does anyone know who he is? Any NM posters here to give some info on self defense laws?
Steven Baca. Found it on the fb clip comments
Username checks out.
Pretty sure it's a pair of glasses, and what we're seeing sticking out of his fist is the earpiece. You can see him drop whatever it is as he's falling, and it lands about 5-10 feet away roughly in the direction of the statue. About a minute later in the video, while they're working on him, you can see a pair of glasses lying in that area.
That said, as fast as things happened, the shooter could have seen a flash of black in the guy's hand and thought the same thing we did, that he had a knife, and that's what drove him to defend himself. That and the group of people trying to brain him with skateboards, of course.
So why was this guy charged? I mean, it always requires more investigation - video does lie, but what else did they have to go on?
There is no justice in America anymore. We made sure of that when the right wing mob was so quick to call the Charlottseville guy a terrorist despite the evidence saying he was driving home and his car was attacked.
Getting called racist is now a worse punishment than losing your job, your freedom, or even your life.
Yes, that was pathetic how we folded on Charlottesville.
I hope Cuckservatives have learned a lesson.
Spoiler : they haven't
It's not just them, our groups were so quick to denounce and call that person a terrorist so they wouldn't get called violent by the media, including this sub on reddit.
Look at how well that turned out, we still got the same attacks and were forced to move off reddit anyway.
Not to mention all the pandering to black people. I don't know if it was that we felt the need to demonstrate to the Reddit admins that we are not racist, but there was always among the top posts the pic of a random non-white person with a MAGA hat.
The Trump train welcomes everyone of course, but I hate the concept that we need to prove that we're not racist.
I never understood that. Car surrounded. People beating on your car. What are you supposed to do?
Real conservatives don't have anyone representing us. Anyone. All we can do is sit back and watch this country turn to shit. Sad realization.
It gets even worse if you follow the trial against him, their evidence that it was premeditated, which they then leaked to the media.
His mom, who he lives with, told him to be careful, and he replied "I'm not the one who needs to be careful"
He insulted the mother of the woman who got killed while he was in jail in a private phone call with his mom, because insulting someone who called you a terrorist is now unreasonable.
He liked a few facebook memes about running over protesters when they block the street. This was their big piece of evidence which sounds bad at first but is really meaningless, everyone was liking those memes.
You can beat the rap but not the ride. He was a conservative defending himself from leftists, which is exactly what they don't want us doing. So even if they can't stick the charges in court, they will surely drag him through as much hell as they can before it finally gets thrown out for self defense.
It looks like a knife in that frame (in the above screenshot), but looks like that might have just been glasses in another frame. Both hands are closed, as if he's holding two objects.
https://imgur.com/a/gWfI7bt
Here you can see the broken glasses and some other small object on the ground, which might be part of the glasses frame.
Honestly does it matter. If it looks like a knife to us.
If I'm the shooter, "He said he was going to kill me, hit me with a weapon, then pulled out what looked like a knife while I was being surrounded. I feared for my life."
In America, that's it. See ya later, have a good day
Not a knife in left hand, not sure of right hand.
GAME CHANGER
FAKE NEWS!!!!
GOTTA DO BETTER THAN THIS, PEDES!!!!!
No, not fake! I thought the same and posted a condemation. Then I saw the higher quality video. You can see him dropping it when he collapses at about 9 seconds in: https://streamable.com/9a9jkz
Spez: It may be glasses looking at about 11 seconds in.
There's no way that's a knife. It's not even four inches long. It's probably a vape.
More important is that the shooting was justified whether he had a knife or not. If you run with this you will be rightfully be discredited.
It could be a blade that is easy to conceal. If we definitively called this a knife yes, but there is nothing wrong with pointing out there is an unknown object in the assailants hand. Even if it is something innocent, it adds to the defense of the shooter when added to the other facts. It allows defense attorneys addition ground to claim the defendant had a reasonable belief that his life was threatened as he may not know what the object is either. Not that there is a shortage of that evidence with the assailant attacking the victim's head with a blunt object.
IT WAS GLASSES IN HIS LEFT HAND, PEOPLE: https://i.maga.host/ryZaQal.PNG
Not sure what was in his right hand, but I'm 90% sure it wasn't a knife. None of the frames show anything sticking out past his thumb and index finger.
Thus must explain, "Im going to kill you!" comment.
Knife wounds can sever more blood vessels causing more trauma and rapid blood loss, lowering blood pressure and causing shock. They are often far more deadly than a gunshot wound.
Knives; Jyneze
The only good antifa is a dead antifa.
I've gone through the high Res video frame by frame. He's holding glasses in his left hand. He drops them from his left hand after being shot. I could not see a knife anywhere.
He's still an idiot, and the gun guy is an idiot too. He kept taking shots after the guy was already running. He was also pushing over people earlier in the crowd, provoking people to turn on him. He's not innocent and we shouldn't be taking his side.
For all we know he could have been hired to incite violence.and brought the gun so he could claim self defense when he was inevitably attacked.
So at best he was using antifa tactics against antifa.
We absolutely take his side. He was doing the police's job.
That's a lie, mate. He is a provocatour. He is destabilising America
Mate?
The people tearing down the statues are destabilizing America
Yes, and so are the people going out to those lefties, pushing them around, and then shooting them when they get chased. What don't you get? This idiot isn't "our guy".
Charges dropped concern troll
KNIVES = DIES
Where was the blood on the guy that got shot. Did he have a vest on? That full length video just seemed odd.
[email protected] knife to gun fight.
They're glasses
https://youtu.be/UOWzDFse0u8?t=199
He's not getting charged for shooting the antifa guy people, he's getting charged because he freaking shoved multiple women to the ground a few minutes earlier when he was larping in front of a stupid statute. It was at that moment the crowd removed him.
Video 1 of him absolutely slamming a woman to the ground: https://mobile.twitter.com/chadloder/status/1272775001200971777
Video 2 off him throwing two other women: https://mobile.twitter.com/chadloder/status/1272771405004730368
I wouldn’t have done that but she did deserve it. She was pushing him and it doesn’t matter if she used her back or not. She actually made pretty hard physical contact with him at the onset of the incident. It knocks him back a couple of feet.
where did this happen?!
And who was arrested?
Let's be real here "the thin blue line" is nothing more than a security element for Antifa.
They can beat you to death, but you can't defend yourself and heaven help you if you try to stop them from destroying something.
I hope he gets a fair trial.
Apparently the cucks were trying to take a statue down and he wanted to protect it but got overwhelmed and decided to leave peacefully. The "peaceful" protestors had other ideas and were trying to beat him up. One guy literally said"We're going to kill you!" He pulls out his gun after a scuffle and shoots the guy with the knife.
If you're gonna worry about the left martyring him they won't; he's white. At most blueshirt will be labelled an alt right nazi.
Had knives
Has holes
circle of life
Attacker clearly had corona virus and got within 6’. Totally justified.
Good job pede.
This is yet another example of how Orwellian our society is getting when Self defense is violence, but rioting is peaceful. News media is painting this guy as some crazy gunman who went there to kill "peaceful protesters", and the man who got shot as some hero who threw himself in front of the bullets to save everyone. I sincerely hope that more people have enough common sense to see through it and vote that cuck mayor out of office.