I could see that. Bullets are fast. Those shots go in and out, potentially causing less damage.
I also suppose the fact that a knife wielder would more easily aim for the core. I'd imagine most people shooting at cops are terrible shots and lucky if land a solid shot anywhere.
hollow points my friend, gotta use hydro-shocks goes in the size of a pea blows out the back the size of a quarter. certain types fragment leaving little shards of sharp copper inside the body for maximum damage.
For HD, I prefer a good .223/5.56 defensive load. Specifically Federal Tactical Bonded. Speer .223 Gold Dot are another excellent choice as well.
The terminal performance is much much better than any pistol cal, less risk of over penetration, and you get the control of a rifle, more ammo, and faster follow up shots.
Really ... “hydro-shocks”? Fragments for “maximum damage”? Are you sure you know which end of the gun is the dangerous one?
(Federal Hydro-Shok is a classic design, by which I mean dated; and as current design to pass FBI test protocol emphasizes penetration first, then expansion and weight retention, boutique fragmenting designs are Right Out).
From what I read there really isn't an advantage in hollow point.
Bullet becoming wider has the drawback of lower penetration.
For example if the attacker has his arms in front of his torso, an hollow point might not be able to go through his arm and still hit the torso with enough force left.
As a former armed hospital security officer, they addressed this type of thing in class. Any modifications to the round will be found during investigation. If you fired a modified round at a bad guy that results in injury or death, you will be held criminally and civilly liable for damages. Use factory ammo or ammo authorized by your site/client only, your lawyer will thank you.
From what I read there really isn't an advantage in hollow point.
That's horribly incorrect.
Bullet becoming wider has the drawback of lower penetration.
That's perhaps the #1 reason to carry hollow points for self defense reasons, reducing the risk of overpenetration. Do you even physics, bro?
The alternative is firing a solid ball at an attacker, and that ball passing right through the target and into other people, or in a home defense situation, that solid ball passing right through the target and punching through several walls and potentially into other dwellings.
I think you might have been thinking of semi-wadcutters rather than hollow points. Wadcutters are specially designed for shooting paper targets, as the blunt shape of them cuts out perfect circles in the target. Semi-wadcutters are a kind of hybrid between the wadcutter and a hollow point round, an attempt to make an all-purpose round, but there have been incidents of semi-wadcutters getting lodged in the arm, and even losing most of its stopping power when going through heavy clothing.
Of course, this also depends heavily on the bullet design... there are some semi-wadcutters that are quite effective, but some have all the effectiveness of a rubber bullet.
They don't go in an out if using hollow points. That shit fragments and shreds those insides. FMJ can kill your back-splash. Very irresponsible to use FMJ when defending yourself.
Not as irresponsible as the person trying to murder you. I understand your point and I agree with you but if all I can grab are fmjs I’m defending with fmjs. Hollow points are 100% more responsible though.
I've always hunted with hollowpoints and Ive never had a round not pass through. I guess if you using some really underpowered rounds at a far distance it could happen but in 20 years Ive not experienced it.
I actually don't think I've ever even bought soft points for any of my deer or hog rifles, and I've never heard of restrictions on hunting with hollow points, its nothing more than an expanding bullet. In 30-30 and 30-06 on whitetail I haven't had a round come apart even when passing through thick bone, they just fold out real nice and punch through everything. For hog I use ballistic tips in .270 with great results.
Strictly speaking, unless the person was absolutely determined to kill you and/or was under the influence, they're going to stop after being shot with either FMJ or a hollow point.
This is simply not true at all. Plenty of attacks occur where an attacker is shot multiple times, and they are still fighting or succeed in killing their target.
You need a physiological stop, not a mental one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FwUfFhFHs
Check out this crazy story. This stuff happens. Its not even that rare. Pistol cals are really shitty at stopping threats actually.
Actual data shows that psychological stops are fairly common. Out of the studied cases (around 1700 or so over 10 years), 36% of assailants gave up after being shot a single time, regardless of where they were shot or what they were shot with.
In these cases with ANTIFA and similar people, they aren't expecting people to pull a gun out and shoot them. In the case you linked, the man was clearly determined to kill the cop, which is a group of people I made obvious reference to in my previous post.
No one's suggesting that you try to go for a psychological stop first.
I'm no Delta Operator Physicist Ninja, but I'm pretty sure 9mm does more "damage" than a knife. Ya'll have to ask more questions when confronted with stats. Officers probably have higher survivability from gunshots due to things like wearing vests and also due to difficulty of shooting pistols accurately, which is largely what officers get shot at with. Knives on the other hand get used in extreme close range so there are less misses, more throat hits probably.
Stats are similar for normal people, too. The reason knife wounds are more lethal is they are larger, so cause faster bleeding. The number one reason people die from either is blood loss, if medical help doesn't arrive before you run out of blood, you die. Pistol wounds are thin lines, and can often be plugged up with a finger or two to reduce bleeding. Knife wounds are much larger, and much more difficult to slow down the bleeding of.
A knife can do more damage in 2 seconds with good hits than most people would think possible. A high quality blade and a few weeks of training can be terrifyingly deadly.
I can see what you're saying too. I'm just sharing a one-off opinion. There's not enough data in front of me to conclude that knife attacks are more or less dangerous that gun fire.
For instance, a fmg round would definitely cause less damage than a hollowpoint
Hollowpoints only expand like 25% of the time. Maybe 20%? I forget now. I think the clothing wads up in the tip and prevents the expansion, so about 80% of the time the hollowpoint is just an FMJ anyways. I don't have the study link. There's probably an encyclopedia of arguments back and forth about it, knowing my fellow gun owners.
Shot placement is what really matters. Heart, lungs, head.
Right. Ballistics are complex for sure. I've always found it interesting (and I don't currently have any sources and willing to accept that I'm wrong), that a .22lr can cause a lot of damage because it apparently has the tendency to hits your bones and can follow them through your body, causing more damage.
Pretty much head or thigh shot for killing an officer I would imagine. A stab to pretty much anywhere not covered by a vest could easily cause major damage (leg, neck, sides).
I could see that. Bullets are fast. Those shots go in and out, potentially causing less damage.
I also suppose the fact that a knife wielder would more easily aim for the core. I'd imagine most people shooting at cops are terrible shots and lucky if land a solid shot anywhere.
hollow points my friend, gotta use hydro-shocks goes in the size of a pea blows out the back the size of a quarter. certain types fragment leaving little shards of sharp copper inside the body for maximum damage.
Use pinky size bullets to create thumb sized holes.
heres all the tears for a shot antifa terrorist:
your eyes actually get dryer ;)
Wow, that's a not of tears!
Depends on the cartridge size. 9mm sure, but when you start getting into the pocket pistol calibers, FMJ is sometimes better
22 TCM my friend
Which pistol shoots that? Not the most common caliber
Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot is what you seek. Hydro Shok are older technology and less consistent. Still better than FMJ though.
Speer Gold Dot in 9mm is the perfect HD round.
For HD, I prefer a good .223/5.56 defensive load. Specifically Federal Tactical Bonded. Speer .223 Gold Dot are another excellent choice as well.
The terminal performance is much much better than any pistol cal, less risk of over penetration, and you get the control of a rifle, more ammo, and faster follow up shots.
Really ... “hydro-shocks”? Fragments for “maximum damage”? Are you sure you know which end of the gun is the dangerous one?
(Federal Hydro-Shok is a classic design, by which I mean dated; and as current design to pass FBI test protocol emphasizes penetration first, then expansion and weight retention, boutique fragmenting designs are Right Out).
I like to know that if I blast someone they are going to know it and its going to hurt as much as possible.
From what I read there really isn't an advantage in hollow point. Bullet becoming wider has the drawback of lower penetration.
For example if the attacker has his arms in front of his torso, an hollow point might not be able to go through his arm and still hit the torso with enough force left.
EDIT: thank you for correcting me, I was wrong.
I've heard of people carving crosses on hpbbullets so it will break off into 4 fragments after initial penetration
As a former armed hospital security officer, they addressed this type of thing in class. Any modifications to the round will be found during investigation. If you fired a modified round at a bad guy that results in injury or death, you will be held criminally and civilly liable for damages. Use factory ammo or ammo authorized by your site/client only, your lawyer will thank you.
I saw this demonstrated using a knife and hammer.
That's horribly incorrect.
That's perhaps the #1 reason to carry hollow points for self defense reasons, reducing the risk of overpenetration. Do you even physics, bro?
The alternative is firing a solid ball at an attacker, and that ball passing right through the target and into other people, or in a home defense situation, that solid ball passing right through the target and punching through several walls and potentially into other dwellings.
Ok fine. I just did some research and I was wrong. HP penetrate deep enough and FMJ have great risk of overpenetration.
Load some of each. Not a problem.
Of course, we're talking academically here.
It's proven that the only thing that really matters is shot placement.
I think you might have been thinking of semi-wadcutters rather than hollow points. Wadcutters are specially designed for shooting paper targets, as the blunt shape of them cuts out perfect circles in the target. Semi-wadcutters are a kind of hybrid between the wadcutter and a hollow point round, an attempt to make an all-purpose round, but there have been incidents of semi-wadcutters getting lodged in the arm, and even losing most of its stopping power when going through heavy clothing.
Of course, this also depends heavily on the bullet design... there are some semi-wadcutters that are quite effective, but some have all the effectiveness of a rubber bullet.
They don't go in an out if using hollow points. That shit fragments and shreds those insides. FMJ can kill your back-splash. Very irresponsible to use FMJ when defending yourself.
Not as irresponsible as the person trying to murder you. I understand your point and I agree with you but if all I can grab are fmjs I’m defending with fmjs. Hollow points are 100% more responsible though.
FMJ is actually the more appropriate choice in the smaller calibers like 32 ACP
It’s only clear gel testing but https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/
I've always hunted with hollowpoints and Ive never had a round not pass through. I guess if you using some really underpowered rounds at a far distance it could happen but in 20 years Ive not experienced it.
Your state let’s you hunt with hollow points?
“State” “Lets” “You”
Maybe he just doesn’t ask permission
Hunting with hollow points?
I actually don't think I've ever even bought soft points for any of my deer or hog rifles, and I've never heard of restrictions on hunting with hollow points, its nothing more than an expanding bullet. In 30-30 and 30-06 on whitetail I haven't had a round come apart even when passing through thick bone, they just fold out real nice and punch through everything. For hog I use ballistic tips in .270 with great results.
Strictly speaking, unless the person was absolutely determined to kill you and/or was under the influence, they're going to stop after being shot with either FMJ or a hollow point.
This is simply not true at all. Plenty of attacks occur where an attacker is shot multiple times, and they are still fighting or succeed in killing their target.
You need a physiological stop, not a mental one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_FwUfFhFHs Check out this crazy story. This stuff happens. Its not even that rare. Pistol cals are really shitty at stopping threats actually.
Actual data shows that psychological stops are fairly common. Out of the studied cases (around 1700 or so over 10 years), 36% of assailants gave up after being shot a single time, regardless of where they were shot or what they were shot with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycYxb-zNwc
In these cases with ANTIFA and similar people, they aren't expecting people to pull a gun out and shoot them. In the case you linked, the man was clearly determined to kill the cop, which is a group of people I made obvious reference to in my previous post.
No one's suggesting that you try to go for a psychological stop first.
I'm no Delta Operator Physicist Ninja, but I'm pretty sure 9mm does more "damage" than a knife. Ya'll have to ask more questions when confronted with stats. Officers probably have higher survivability from gunshots due to things like wearing vests and also due to difficulty of shooting pistols accurately, which is largely what officers get shot at with. Knives on the other hand get used in extreme close range so there are less misses, more throat hits probably.
Stats are similar for normal people, too. The reason knife wounds are more lethal is they are larger, so cause faster bleeding. The number one reason people die from either is blood loss, if medical help doesn't arrive before you run out of blood, you die. Pistol wounds are thin lines, and can often be plugged up with a finger or two to reduce bleeding. Knife wounds are much larger, and much more difficult to slow down the bleeding of.
This is the correct answer. Until enough blood drains out to cause loss of consciousness, the attacker could keep coming for 4-5 minutes.
So with firearms, you need enough rounds to increase blood loss and faster unconsciousness.
The remedy to this is shot placement.
CNS and mobility shots shut the body down instantly.
Either you get one in the brainpan and it's game over, or a heart hit, or the hip girdle. If they can't walk they can't chase.
Heads and hips, kids.
See the Mozambique drill and the zipper drill.
A knife can do more damage in 2 seconds with good hits than most people would think possible. A high quality blade and a few weeks of training can be terrifyingly deadly.
While you chased girls and partied, I studied the blade.
This is The Way.
I can see what you're saying too. I'm just sharing a one-off opinion. There's not enough data in front of me to conclude that knife attacks are more or less dangerous that gun fire.
For instance, a fmg round would definitely cause less damage than a hollowpoint
Hollowpoints only expand like 25% of the time. Maybe 20%? I forget now. I think the clothing wads up in the tip and prevents the expansion, so about 80% of the time the hollowpoint is just an FMJ anyways. I don't have the study link. There's probably an encyclopedia of arguments back and forth about it, knowing my fellow gun owners.
Shot placement is what really matters. Heart, lungs, head.
Right. Ballistics are complex for sure. I've always found it interesting (and I don't currently have any sources and willing to accept that I'm wrong), that a .22lr can cause a lot of damage because it apparently has the tendency to hits your bones and can follow them through your body, causing more damage.
Hits your arm, comes out your shoulder or elbow.
It's not what he was saying. read it again, slowly.
Here, read this at your leisure: don't be a fag
Says the cry baby with zero reading comprehension. Aww poor baby.
💯
Pretty much head or thigh shot for killing an officer I would imagine. A stab to pretty much anywhere not covered by a vest could easily cause major damage (leg, neck, sides).