Same reason why they never showed footage from Rodney King before his beat down. It'll come out in Court and the cop will walk or get a lesser charge, and people will riot again just like Ellison wants.
I think most reasonable people see that video and get angered because 99% of the time that is absolutely not justified. If the world started and then 8 minutes and 46 seconds later Floyd died then 99.9% of the time of course the cops are guilty. Sure, there is a .1% chance that it was an accident, but that's about it if there was no other context.
But that's not the case here. We 100% do not know the full story that will come out in the court trials and to think otherwise is fucking ridiculous.
What if Floyd was whacked out on drugs and whispered in Chauvin's ear that if he didn't kill him then his family would be murdered before he got home by someone who already invaded his house? Sure, the chances of this is like 1/999999999999999999999999999999999999999 but it's absolutely possible... and that's my point. There are so many possibilities that we don't know, and we should always strive for truth rather than emotional attacks at the innocent--or potentially innocent.
No, our courts obviously don't get everything right... but we've got the best system around and we shouldn't tear it down. We should make sure it stays the best and gets better.
FWIW I think that Bret Weinstein on Joe Rogan was right. TPBP want these cases to fail. They want riots. They want people to think that Trump is letting these cops off the hook for killing black people even if it's proven in court that there was no wrongdoing.
Here's the thing: we know Floyd WAS whacked out on drugs, because that's what the cops got called for. They weren't called over the fake twenty, they were called because Floyd was drugged out of his mind.
If he was being violent and acting irrationally due to drugs, then it entirely explains why the officer's thought they needed to use that much force to restrain him.
If they were justified in the level of force, the only issue we have is a poorly trained officer applied the force improperly.
We don't throw doctors in jail when they mess up and a patient dies. Why should we do the same for cops?
We should investigate the Minnesota PD to find out why they are hiring such incompetent officers and not training them.
The only case where the cops should be charged is if we find out they had any malicious intent to harm the victim.
Man, I looked but couldn't find the link. Minneapolis newspaper looked into it. Chauvin actually followed protocol. And you're correct, physically impossible to suffocate someone like that. First autopsy showed that. It's all a big LARP.
This isn't the same one I read but a quick glance, it looks like the same information. Possibly snipped from the Minneapolis newspaper. It's all bullshit. And they're gonna sacrifice Chauvin.
I remember seeing people say "look into Chauvin's lifeless eyes, he is pure evil". Nah, he's just doing routine police work. He should've possibly been more aware that Floyd was overdosing and dying, but from what I've seen he is supposed to subdue him with two knees and wait for EMS.
Thank you for the link.
I found the same content in 4chan. Can't believe I didn't think of that when I first heard the story.
If the trial is fair, there's no way he gets prosecuted for murder.
Perhaps involuntary manslaughter, if they argue that he prevented Floyd from breathing upright and breathing upright could have saved his life
Cause of d eath: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression
And Chauvin kept the knee on Floyd's neck, including after Floyd stopped talking and moving. He could have shifted the knee from his neck onto his back, or rolled Floyd around and give CPR (this might have been unsafe if Floyd was playing possum, but with 4 or more police officers...), or try to see if he could get Floyd to talk or check whether he was conscious, etc., but Chauvin instead just kept having one knee on his neck, not even shifting that knee onto the back or similar. The bystanders didn't help matters, however, since they kept yelling and acting threateningly, which made it more important for the police officers to maintain the pin (George Floyd was not a small man and had a record for violence apart from resisting arrest), but there were still 4 or more police officers. As far as I can tell, Chauvin should be investigated for intentional murder.
Apart from lots of other stuff in Floyd's blood, such as methamphetamine.
While I am by no means a doctor, as far as I can skim on the net, 11 ng/mL is definitely a lethal dose, as others seem to have died from such a dose, see for instance https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/pdfs/mm6604a4.pdf .
And I recall reading something about Floyd saying "I can't breath"while standing up before he was pinned or restrained. That fits very well with overdoses of various stuff.
It may well have been the case that Floyd was doomed to die from an overdose of various drugs that day without meeting any police officers. But Chauvin's knee on his neck cannot have helped at all, and Chauvin could have done things very, very differently. And then there are the rumours that Chauvin knew Floyd before-hand. It seems really, really strange.
Aside from that George Floyd should not be evangelized at all, given his robberies, home invasions, pointing a gun at a pregnant women, his long criminal record, resisting arrest, possible drug dealing with hard drugs, etc., etc., etc. Donald Trump has already taken action reg. the fentanyl imports that China is using against the USA to spread addiction and death, and from what I hear, Floyd was unemployed due to the Chinese virus.
And the looters obviously ought to spend much or most of their lives in prison.
Definitely not murder because he didn't mean to kill him. The proof of that is that he followed the procedure that he's been taught.
Knee on the back of the neck should not make breathing more difficult. Ironically what you suggested, putting the knee on the back, does prevent breathing.
Laying on the stomach is also the best position for breathing, in fact that's how hospitals put the Chinese virus patients who can't breathe. Most people don't know, but the lungs are more in the back than in the front.
Still, we know, absolutely, that it's not normal for police officers to kneel on the back of people's necks, because if that was normal then just about all of them would have broken peoples’ necks.
The proof of that is that he followed the procedure that he's been taught.
Do you have any sources of him "following protocol" or "followed the procedure that he's been taught"?
That report is just describing the circumstances. It's not the result of an autopsy.
It also mentions "restraint" and that normally doesn't kill people.
Following protocol: the source was just posted by another pede in response to my comment above.
Credit it's his, I'll just relink it here for your convenience
Still, we know, absolutely, that it's not normal for police officers to kneel on the back of people's necks, because if that was normal then just about all of them would have broken peoples’ necks.
That report is just describing the circumstances. It's not the result of an autopsy. It also mentions "restraint" and that normally doesn't kill people.
"Just describing the circumstances". Why would they specifically mention "neck compression" as a *"complication reg. the cause of death"?
And in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6F62EdX_yg , George Floyd specifically mentions "Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit.", around 0:20 . Shouldn't protocol demand of Chauvin that he should take special care and consideration and ensure that the suspect resisting arrest can breath and is not dying?
Thank you for the source, though I have to skim through it to find the sources it uses, it is not itself a proper source. It seems to be this file here: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf (I assume that source is trustworthy, though I wouldn't know, it is also from something like "sanfranciscopolice.org"... why would the police of San Francisco have that file? And why would they use the top-level domain '.org'???). And from that file, I am not at all convinced that Chauvin did indeed follow protocol. Page 7 seems to be the relevant part. What is your argument that Chauvin is indeed following the protocol as described on page 7 and elsewhere? Especially reg. Chauvin continuing to use the neck restraint even after George Floyd stopped moving and talking? And without even checking up on whether he was conscious or breathing? Not changing the restraint? Or any other of a large number of actions? Again, there were 4 or more officers. And when George Floyd says things like:
"Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit."
Isn't that an absolutely obvious cue that special care is needed, especially when Floyd stops moving and talking? Does the protocol require police officers to monitor and check subjects that are restrained whether they are breathing, conscious or possibly dying? Or any other related actions, especially when they have stopped moving and talking while under neck restraint?
I think all your points are answered by the article I linked.
Let me tell you from personal experience: if you can't breathe, you can't talk. Surely not as loud as Floyd does in the video.
Obviously the cop doesn't let him go because they judged that they need to keep him restraint for their own safety.
Neck compression just means there was pressure on his neck. If you look at the details of the autopsy, there was no bruising of neck muscles, so obviously there wasn’t much pressure exerted at all.
Minneapolis PD guidelines also stated that neck restraints using your leg are legal. They only disallowed chokeholds.
Neck compression just means there was pressure on his neck. If you look at the details of the autopsy, there was no bruising of neck muscles, so obviously there wasn’t much pressure exerted at all.
But isn't it significant that it is directly mentioned as a complication reg. the cause of death?
Minneapolis PD guidelines also stated that neck restraints using your leg are legal. They only disallowed chokeholds.
If you have a source reg. that, I would appreciate it if you would post it. The only source I have really seen reg. that is from a medium post (which is copy-pasted on a blog post on a website called amren.com which has been linked elsewhere in the comments here): https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf .The link points to a document on a website supposedly for the San Francisco police department, despite its TLD being .org. I don't know whether that document is fake or not, though I would very much appreciate if you happen to know a better source than that.
It also says the cause of death was the arrest. If he died due to a heart attack from the drugs, his poor health, and the stress of being arrested, then it can both be true that pressure on the neck contributed to his death and that it wasn’t the primary factor.
I mean you could say the arrest caused his death, because if the cop just let him go he might have lived, but that’s not fair imo, and neither is saying the kneeling did it. I would feel differently if his neck was damaged or if he died of asphyxiation.
If you have a source reg. that, I would appreciate it if you would post it. The only source I have really seen reg. that is from a medium post
Sure thing. I actually looked it up immediately when the event happened because I was curious whether what he was doing was standard practice or not (since everyone kept saying it was so horrible)
Hmm, their site seems to be down for whatever reason, but here is an old comment of mine where I quote what was in it. You can check the link there and see if their site is working by the time you read this.
You go from the "knee cannot have helped at all" (true) and your conclusion here is he likely committed "intentional murder." See the problem here? You seem to have the logical mindset of a personal injury attorney.
As far as I can tell, Chauvin should be investigated for intentional murder.
You write:
[...] your conclusion here is he likely committed "intentional murder."
I think that it at the very least should be investigated for intentional murder, for it seems extremely off in multiple regards (seriously? Kneeling on the neck? Not providing aid or checking? Etc. etc. etc. etc.).
And you also leave out other parts of my argumentation. What about this part of my comment?:
[...], and Chauvin could have done things very, very differently. And then there are the rumours that Chauvin knew Floyd before-hand. It seems really, really strange.
Why did Chauvin not change his pin from having a knee on the neck to having a knee on the back, or otherwise change the pin, after Floyd stopped moving? Why not see if Floyd is conscious or breathing? Or check if he might need CPR? Floyd repeatedly complained about not being able to breath. Does the police officer not have an obligation to provide life-saving measures if a suspect is dying while being pinned, especially given that the suspect nor others can help in such a case? The bystanders did not help matters at all, but there was still 4+ police officers.
And then there is the possible part about Floyd and Chauvin knowing each other, which I also mention.
What you are advocating for is wrong, as is your reasoning and here's why:
Officers know or have at least heard of people who have extremely long wrap sheets that involve violent crime and serious drug abuse. So, that information is irrelevant on it's own unless you can prove that Chauvin responded to a call specifically because it involved Floyd but even then that seems pretty flimsy.
There are protocols in place for virtually every type of arrest situation. If Chauvin and his fellow officers are following that protocol, by definition they are not at fault. Again you need to have some basic understanding of how police work or any bureaucratic agency works. Doesn't make his actions righteous or "good," but it does make them "not criminal." So, if they are following protocol then there is no case at all.
Not administering help to Floyd is only a crime if it is apparent to the officer that he is in need of medical help AND that they can safely provide it to him. If they did see he needed help and failed to provide it- which is very hard to prove considering the scene of the incident- then that is still not "intentional murder" but rather some degree of potentially criminal negligence.
This should sum it up for you. Those are the three major flaws in your argument. It's not about what is right or what should have happened, it's about what did happen and who should be responsible for what part of it.
Officers know or have at least heard of people who have extremely long wrap sheets that involve violent crime and serious drug abuse. So, that information is irrelevant on it's own unless you can prove that Chauvin responded to a call specifically because it involved Floyd but even then that seems pretty flimsy.
This argument does not make any sense, Chauvin did not have to know at all that it was Floyd before responding, he could very easily recognize that it was Floyd once he was on the scene.
There are protocols in place for virtually every type of arrest situation. If Chauvin and his fellow officers are following that protocol, by definition they are not at fault. Again you need to have some basic understanding of how police work or any bureaucratic agency works. Doesn't make his actions righteous or "good," but it does make them "not criminal." So, if they are following protocol then there is no case at all.
Sources for what protocols they were or were not following? Sources and arguments for Chauvin and others actually following these protocols? Do all protocols specify everything in great detail? Or do they require officers to follow them meaningfully? And are you certain that Chauvin did not break, or grossly break, these protocols?
Not administering help to Floyd is only a crime if it is apparent to the officer that he is in need of medical help AND that they can safely provide it to him. If they did see he needed help and failed to provide it- which is very hard to prove considering the scene of the incident- then that is still not "intentional murder" but rather some degree of potentially criminal negligence.
.............................. do you even believe your own writing here?
"Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breath shit."
EDIT: and him not moving or talking at some point, with others pointing it out? They talking about him possibly being drugged up? Etc. etc. etc. etc.?
This should sum it up for you. Those are the three major flaws in your argument. It's not about what is right or what should have happened, it's about what did happen and who should be responsible for what part of it.
My apologies, but your arguments here are of very poor quality, and you are fully wrong when you claim they point out any flaws in my arguments. And I have trouble seeing that you are not fully aware of that.
My apologies, but your arguments here are of very poor quality, and you are fully wrong when you claim they point out any flaws in my arguments. And I have trouble seeing that you are not fully aware of that.
MY IMPRESSION OF YOUR ARGUMENT IN A NUTSHELL:
You seem to think Chauvin showed up, stealthy executed Floyd because he knew him (1), on camera in front of everyone and completely against department protocol with the knee on the neck (2). Then somehow he got his fellow officers to not help the man who they definitely all knew was clearly dying in front of them (3). This "inaction" of theirs should be a criminal offense despite the fact that an ambulance was already on the way due to Floyd's self inflicted condition of being high off his tits on multiple drugs.
A SHORT RECAP OF 3 REASONS WHY THIS IS INCORRECT:
Police officers often know career criminals so Chauvin knowing Floyd is not a smoking gun. THIS IS VERY COMMON. Doesn't prove he had motive, doesn't prove anything. Agree or disagree?
The quote is "IF Chauvin and his fellow officers are following protocol then there is no case." All this says is that you only have an argument if you can prove they weren't following protocol and you haven't done that. Agree or disagree?
Yeah, I think we should have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone was intentionally failing to give medical help before we send them to jail as an accessory to murder. Call me crazy. Even if Chauvin did intend to cause harm or even kill Floyd this is important as it relates to the other officers charged. Agree or disagree?
I challenge you to rebut the core points of my recap 1-3 without resorting to insults or deflection.
11 ng/ml is high but not actually insane for super druggies. If you are around 20 ng/ml you are probably dead 90+% of the time, but at 11 you may or may not die if you are a habitual user. Some people die around 11, if they are taking it on prescription for the first time.
Interesting, I did not know that, though it does make sense, especially:
[...] but at 11 you would probably survive if you are a habitual user.
I recall having seen something about the level of fentanyl being lethal varying from user to user, and the size of George Floyd as well as possible habitual usage points in the direction of him being able to survive a higher level of fentanyl.
On the other hand, he did also have other drugs in his system, and I recalls something about a heart disease. But still, in case he was a habitual user and/or other, it might possibly mean that his dosage was not necessarily lethal, though of course still very significant.
You don’t need to cut the airways. If you restrict the flow of blood through the carotids, you can breath all you want, and your brain won’t be getting oxygen.
Take your hand and make a fist. Now press that fist to the side of your neck as hard as you can. Notice that you don’t pass out?
There’s a thick layer of muscle there that protects your arteries. You would either need to jam your knee under his chin into his neck from the front, or crush his neck from the side.
There’s no way he could have blocked his carotid arteries in that position. They are closer to the front of your neck than the side, which had a thick layer of muscle.
If it could, it would be used in wrestling or jujitsu, or something similar. What I find funny is that zero of the YouTube martial artists are analyzing this hold. What you can find, are knee-on-neck holds on the front of the neck. But not the back.
But all the Rashard Brooks footage was released pretty fast. It is clear- if there was anything damning on the body cam footage, it would have been released right away. The fact that is hasn't, tells us it probably destroys their narrative so they do not want it released.
Had to look that case up. It doesn't look like he got shot with his own taser. But, the guy did run, he did turn around and knock the taser out of the cops hand. The cop was probably? Wrong here, but 18 years? Honestly, if I was the cop, I might have done the same thing in the moment. And, really? If I was pulled over by a cop, I wouldn't run and I definitely wouldn't attack the taser in a cops hands as I was running, if I was stupid enough to run in the first place - mainly because I would be pretty sure I'd get shot if I did. It played out badly, it really did, and I could see the cop losing his job, and possibly? Going to prison for a time? But 18 or 20 years? Watching the videos I watched, the punishment seems a bit more extreme than the crime I saw.
If they released them everyone would realize the cops weren't lying about him complaining about not being able to breathe long before he was on the ground. Most retards think they're just liars.
My first thought when all this came out was, I wonder if this will be like the Covington kids video. The fact that it's been a month and no bodycam footage, while the Brooks video came out like a week after the event, makes me think it's another cover-up.
It's not being released because it will show George Floyd inebriated, resisting arrest, crying wolf about not being able to breathe before he's even on the ground in order to resist arrest, lie about being claustrophobic to resist arrest.
I dunno - I want the whole story AND I want to riot and burn things. I’m not about to lose this country to a bunch of low life’s they care nothing about liberty, limited government or the Republic.
My money is on the possibility that the officer that killed him said something to floyd in those 8mins that proves it was motivated by criminal activity
Agreed. Something else is going on. Why were reports that they knew each other suddenly memory holed?
When asked if body camera footage would be released before the trial, Minnesota AG Keith Ellison said, “I’m a firm believer in transparency, and the public’s right to know, but a higher priority for me is a successful prosecution. Therefore, I’ll consult with our lead investigators and I’ll say to them ‘when can we release this information to the public and still safeguard the prosecution.’ If we can do it before [trial] I would have no problem with doing that.”
No need to know the whole story, the KKK choked him to death with a noose that they then took to Talladega speed way, and then knocked out a black man and put him in a Wendy's drive thru line.
They have a partial audio transcript from the body cams, and it shows that they were actually trying to help Floyd. One cops says "I'm worried about excited delirium, or whatever", "should we turn him over in his side"? And then officer Chauvin says "no, that's why we have him on his stomach".
So, they were either trying to not kill him, or they were just saying those things on the body cams so that they could murder him in broad daylight, with people filming and watching. Which makes more sense?
Because it's most likely if anything that both of them had beef and past history and footage not seen shows that at the end of the day it was two criminals.
Remember when Steven Paddock supposedly fired more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition from his 32nd floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel, killing 58 people and wounding 413, with the ensuing panic bringing the injury total to 869.
Because he died of a drug overdose (Fentanyl) and the police were following procedure for Excided Delerium (and he would have died from the drugs anyway) but if the media disparages "Saint George" there will be more rioting/looting.
I actually think that the body cam might be a cop actually doing something wrong. The only reason I think that is having that come out during a trial in say 4 months might have a bigger affect on some that happens in November. Though I can’t remember what happens in November
you cant find footage because you are using google. use duck duck. there are 4 or 5 different videos. its pretty clear felony floyd died from a drug overdose that caused a heart attack. its all in the ME report. he died hours later at the hospital. he killed himself. the cops 100% did nothing wrong. just look for the videos. they are all there. even the one that shows him dropping the bag of drugs.
he died because he deserved to die. he killed himself.
screw felony floyd. this is a CCP plot to overthrow the USA
How did Floyd end up from being in the back seat of the cop car with closed door, to on the other side of the vehicle (street side)? Seems to me he was trying to break free of custody.
When you start pissing cops off, when you start attacking them, they begin leaking information related to the case. If there was such camera footage they would’ve released a long time ago
It should be clear by now that George Floyd's death was just an excuse to do what the Communists have been wanting to do for a long time. George Floyd could be revealed to have never died and it would not change a thing.
Must be where they put the Vegas mass shooting videos. There’s a believable story right? Probably the city in the US with the most cameras and we see not a single video of the alleged single shooter carrying an armory into his room. Gotcha...
Because no one really cares about him. We know that the groups that are behind what's going on now (BLM and others) just needed a spark to start their protest. Floyd was that spark. They never cared about him.
Why won't they show what happened before he was taken out of the cop car?
The violent piece of shit overdosed, let's be real.
Same reason why they never showed footage from Rodney King before his beat down. It'll come out in Court and the cop will walk or get a lesser charge, and people will riot again just like Ellison wants.
I think most reasonable people see that video and get angered because 99% of the time that is absolutely not justified. If the world started and then 8 minutes and 46 seconds later Floyd died then 99.9% of the time of course the cops are guilty. Sure, there is a .1% chance that it was an accident, but that's about it if there was no other context.
But that's not the case here. We 100% do not know the full story that will come out in the court trials and to think otherwise is fucking ridiculous.
What if Floyd was whacked out on drugs and whispered in Chauvin's ear that if he didn't kill him then his family would be murdered before he got home by someone who already invaded his house? Sure, the chances of this is like 1/999999999999999999999999999999999999999 but it's absolutely possible... and that's my point. There are so many possibilities that we don't know, and we should always strive for truth rather than emotional attacks at the innocent--or potentially innocent.
No, our courts obviously don't get everything right... but we've got the best system around and we shouldn't tear it down. We should make sure it stays the best and gets better.
FWIW I think that Bret Weinstein on Joe Rogan was right. TPBP want these cases to fail. They want riots. They want people to think that Trump is letting these cops off the hook for killing black people even if it's proven in court that there was no wrongdoing.
Here's the thing: we know Floyd WAS whacked out on drugs, because that's what the cops got called for. They weren't called over the fake twenty, they were called because Floyd was drugged out of his mind.
If he was being violent and acting irrationally due to drugs, then it entirely explains why the officer's thought they needed to use that much force to restrain him.
If they were justified in the level of force, the only issue we have is a poorly trained officer applied the force improperly.
We don't throw doctors in jail when they mess up and a patient dies. Why should we do the same for cops?
We should investigate the Minnesota PD to find out why they are hiring such incompetent officers and not training them.
The only case where the cops should be charged is if we find out they had any malicious intent to harm the victim.
I absolutely agree with everything you said. I’d like to see the full video like Rayshard Brooks.
That if Covid 19
Its Floyd19
Oooops better cancel all of crossfit inc
Oh man that scab just formed.
Let's be real: you can't suffocate from a knee holding you down from the back of your neck. It doesn't cut the airways.
Man, I looked but couldn't find the link. Minneapolis newspaper looked into it. Chauvin actually followed protocol. And you're correct, physically impossible to suffocate someone like that. First autopsy showed that. It's all a big LARP.
I think that kind of hold is used by policemen all over the world, specifically because it is safe.
https://www.amren.com/news/2020/06/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge/
This isn't the same one I read but a quick glance, it looks like the same information. Possibly snipped from the Minneapolis newspaper. It's all bullshit. And they're gonna sacrifice Chauvin.
I remember seeing people say "look into Chauvin's lifeless eyes, he is pure evil". Nah, he's just doing routine police work. He should've possibly been more aware that Floyd was overdosing and dying, but from what I've seen he is supposed to subdue him with two knees and wait for EMS.
Thank you for the link. I found the same content in 4chan. Can't believe I didn't think of that when I first heard the story.
If the trial is fair, there's no way he gets prosecuted for murder. Perhaps involuntary manslaughter, if they argue that he prevented Floyd from breathing upright and breathing upright could have saved his life
I think you're more or less right. Optics matter, even when they shouldn't.
Maybe especially when they shouldn't.
Wow!!!!!!!
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”
― Blaise Pascal, Pensées
Funny how the second "independent " autopsy changed.
... a knee on the neck for an extended period of time cannot be helpful, at all. A press release report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner clearly states ( https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf ):
And Chauvin kept the knee on Floyd's neck, including after Floyd stopped talking and moving. He could have shifted the knee from his neck onto his back, or rolled Floyd around and give CPR (this might have been unsafe if Floyd was playing possum, but with 4 or more police officers...), or try to see if he could get Floyd to talk or check whether he was conscious, etc., but Chauvin instead just kept having one knee on his neck, not even shifting that knee onto the back or similar. The bystanders didn't help matters, however, since they kept yelling and acting threateningly, which made it more important for the police officers to maintain the pin (George Floyd was not a small man and had a record for violence apart from resisting arrest), but there were still 4 or more police officers. As far as I can tell, Chauvin should be investigated for intentional murder.
That said, the toxicology report reg. George Floyd does show that he had an extreme amount of fentanyl in his blood, an amount that had been lethal in other people (page 15 in https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf ):
Apart from lots of other stuff in Floyd's blood, such as methamphetamine.
While I am by no means a doctor, as far as I can skim on the net, 11 ng/mL is definitely a lethal dose, as others seem to have died from such a dose, see for instance https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/pdfs/mm6604a4.pdf .
And I recall reading something about Floyd saying "I can't breath" while standing up before he was pinned or restrained. That fits very well with overdoses of various stuff.
It may well have been the case that Floyd was doomed to die from an overdose of various drugs that day without meeting any police officers. But Chauvin's knee on his neck cannot have helped at all, and Chauvin could have done things very, very differently. And then there are the rumours that Chauvin knew Floyd before-hand. It seems really, really strange.
Aside from that George Floyd should not be evangelized at all, given his robberies, home invasions, pointing a gun at a pregnant women, his long criminal record, resisting arrest, possible drug dealing with hard drugs, etc., etc., etc. Donald Trump has already taken action reg. the fentanyl imports that China is using against the USA to spread addiction and death, and from what I hear, Floyd was unemployed due to the Chinese virus.
And the looters obviously ought to spend much or most of their lives in prison.
Definitely not murder because he didn't mean to kill him. The proof of that is that he followed the procedure that he's been taught.
Knee on the back of the neck should not make breathing more difficult. Ironically what you suggested, putting the knee on the back, does prevent breathing. Laying on the stomach is also the best position for breathing, in fact that's how hospitals put the Chinese virus patients who can't breathe. Most people don't know, but the lungs are more in the back than in the front.
Then why does the report (as per https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf ) describe the cause of death as follows? (emphasis mine):
They directly name neck compression as a complication reg. the cause of death.
See also the answer by "Paul Harding" in https://www.quora.com/Why-do-police-put-their-knee-on-the-back-of-your-neck-when-cuffing-you . While that is not a proper source, he does write the following:
Do you have any sources of him "following protocol" or "followed the procedure that he's been taught"?
That report is just describing the circumstances. It's not the result of an autopsy. It also mentions "restraint" and that normally doesn't kill people.
Following protocol: the source was just posted by another pede in response to my comment above.
Credit it's his, I'll just relink it here for your convenience
https://www.amren.com/news/2020/06/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge/
You don't comment on the part I wrote reg. "Paul Harding" in https://www.quora.com/Why-do-police-put-their-knee-on-the-back-of-your-neck-when-cuffing-you , again:
"Just describing the circumstances". Why would they specifically mention "neck compression" as a *"complication reg. the cause of death"?
And in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6F62EdX_yg , George Floyd specifically mentions "Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit.", around 0:20 . Shouldn't protocol demand of Chauvin that he should take special care and consideration and ensure that the suspect resisting arrest can breath and is not dying?
Thank you for the source, though I have to skim through it to find the sources it uses, it is not itself a proper source. It seems to be this file here: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf (I assume that source is trustworthy, though I wouldn't know, it is also from something like "sanfranciscopolice.org"... why would the police of San Francisco have that file? And why would they use the top-level domain '.org'???). And from that file, I am not at all convinced that Chauvin did indeed follow protocol. Page 7 seems to be the relevant part. What is your argument that Chauvin is indeed following the protocol as described on page 7 and elsewhere? Especially reg. Chauvin continuing to use the neck restraint even after George Floyd stopped moving and talking? And without even checking up on whether he was conscious or breathing? Not changing the restraint? Or any other of a large number of actions? Again, there were 4 or more officers. And when George Floyd says things like:
Isn't that an absolutely obvious cue that special care is needed, especially when Floyd stops moving and talking? Does the protocol require police officers to monitor and check subjects that are restrained whether they are breathing, conscious or possibly dying? Or any other related actions, especially when they have stopped moving and talking while under neck restraint?
I think all your points are answered by the article I linked.
Let me tell you from personal experience: if you can't breathe, you can't talk. Surely not as loud as Floyd does in the video. Obviously the cop doesn't let him go because they judged that they need to keep him restraint for their own safety.
there are different amounts of pressure. It didnt seem like Chauvin had all that much pressure on floyd, but I cant really tell.
Neck compression just means there was pressure on his neck. If you look at the details of the autopsy, there was no bruising of neck muscles, so obviously there wasn’t much pressure exerted at all.
Minneapolis PD guidelines also stated that neck restraints using your leg are legal. They only disallowed chokeholds.
But isn't it significant that it is directly mentioned as a complication reg. the cause of death?
If you have a source reg. that, I would appreciate it if you would post it. The only source I have really seen reg. that is from a medium post (which is copy-pasted on a blog post on a website called amren.com which has been linked elsewhere in the comments here): https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf .The link points to a document on a website supposedly for the San Francisco police department, despite its TLD being .org. I don't know whether that document is fake or not, though I would very much appreciate if you happen to know a better source than that.
It also says the cause of death was the arrest. If he died due to a heart attack from the drugs, his poor health, and the stress of being arrested, then it can both be true that pressure on the neck contributed to his death and that it wasn’t the primary factor.
I mean you could say the arrest caused his death, because if the cop just let him go he might have lived, but that’s not fair imo, and neither is saying the kneeling did it. I would feel differently if his neck was damaged or if he died of asphyxiation.
Sure thing. I actually looked it up immediately when the event happened because I was curious whether what he was doing was standard practice or not (since everyone kept saying it was so horrible)
Hmm, their site seems to be down for whatever reason, but here is an old comment of mine where I quote what was in it. You can check the link there and see if their site is working by the time you read this.
https://thedonald.win/p/FgCXhCJo/x/c/12hRCBBrsq
You go from the "knee cannot have helped at all" (true) and your conclusion here is he likely committed "intentional murder." See the problem here? You seem to have the logical mindset of a personal injury attorney.
You misquote me. I wrote:
You write:
I think that it at the very least should be investigated for intentional murder, for it seems extremely off in multiple regards (seriously? Kneeling on the neck? Not providing aid or checking? Etc. etc. etc. etc.).
And you also leave out other parts of my argumentation. What about this part of my comment?:
Why did Chauvin not change his pin from having a knee on the neck to having a knee on the back, or otherwise change the pin, after Floyd stopped moving? Why not see if Floyd is conscious or breathing? Or check if he might need CPR? Floyd repeatedly complained about not being able to breath. Does the police officer not have an obligation to provide life-saving measures if a suspect is dying while being pinned, especially given that the suspect nor others can help in such a case? The bystanders did not help matters at all, but there was still 4+ police officers.
And then there is the possible part about Floyd and Chauvin knowing each other, which I also mention.
What you are advocating for is wrong, as is your reasoning and here's why:
Officers know or have at least heard of people who have extremely long wrap sheets that involve violent crime and serious drug abuse. So, that information is irrelevant on it's own unless you can prove that Chauvin responded to a call specifically because it involved Floyd but even then that seems pretty flimsy.
There are protocols in place for virtually every type of arrest situation. If Chauvin and his fellow officers are following that protocol, by definition they are not at fault. Again you need to have some basic understanding of how police work or any bureaucratic agency works. Doesn't make his actions righteous or "good," but it does make them "not criminal." So, if they are following protocol then there is no case at all.
Not administering help to Floyd is only a crime if it is apparent to the officer that he is in need of medical help AND that they can safely provide it to him. If they did see he needed help and failed to provide it- which is very hard to prove considering the scene of the incident- then that is still not "intentional murder" but rather some degree of potentially criminal negligence.
This should sum it up for you. Those are the three major flaws in your argument. It's not about what is right or what should have happened, it's about what did happen and who should be responsible for what part of it.
This argument does not make any sense, Chauvin did not have to know at all that it was Floyd before responding, he could very easily recognize that it was Floyd once he was on the scene.
Sources for what protocols they were or were not following? Sources and arguments for Chauvin and others actually following these protocols? Do all protocols specify everything in great detail? Or do they require officers to follow them meaningfully? And are you certain that Chauvin did not break, or grossly break, these protocols?
.............................. do you even believe your own writing here?
And in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6F62EdX_yg , George Floyd specifically mentions the following around 0:20:
EDIT: and him not moving or talking at some point, with others pointing it out? They talking about him possibly being drugged up? Etc. etc. etc. etc.?
My apologies, but your arguments here are of very poor quality, and you are fully wrong when you claim they point out any flaws in my arguments. And I have trouble seeing that you are not fully aware of that.
MY IMPRESSION OF YOUR ARGUMENT IN A NUTSHELL:
You seem to think Chauvin showed up, stealthy executed Floyd because he knew him (1), on camera in front of everyone and completely against department protocol with the knee on the neck (2). Then somehow he got his fellow officers to not help the man who they definitely all knew was clearly dying in front of them (3). This "inaction" of theirs should be a criminal offense despite the fact that an ambulance was already on the way due to Floyd's self inflicted condition of being high off his tits on multiple drugs.
A SHORT RECAP OF 3 REASONS WHY THIS IS INCORRECT:
Police officers often know career criminals so Chauvin knowing Floyd is not a smoking gun. THIS IS VERY COMMON. Doesn't prove he had motive, doesn't prove anything. Agree or disagree?
The quote is "IF Chauvin and his fellow officers are following protocol then there is no case." All this says is that you only have an argument if you can prove they weren't following protocol and you haven't done that. Agree or disagree?
Yeah, I think we should have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone was intentionally failing to give medical help before we send them to jail as an accessory to murder. Call me crazy. Even if Chauvin did intend to cause harm or even kill Floyd this is important as it relates to the other officers charged. Agree or disagree?
I challenge you to rebut the core points of my recap 1-3 without resorting to insults or deflection.
11 ng/ml is high but not actually insane for super druggies. If you are around 20 ng/ml you are probably dead 90+% of the time, but at 11 you may or may not die if you are a habitual user. Some people die around 11, if they are taking it on prescription for the first time.
Interesting, I did not know that, though it does make sense, especially:
I recall having seen something about the level of fentanyl being lethal varying from user to user, and the size of George Floyd as well as possible habitual usage points in the direction of him being able to survive a higher level of fentanyl.
On the other hand, he did also have other drugs in his system, and I recalls something about a heart disease. But still, in case he was a habitual user and/or other, it might possibly mean that his dosage was not necessarily lethal, though of course still very significant.
You don’t need to cut the airways. If you restrict the flow of blood through the carotids, you can breath all you want, and your brain won’t be getting oxygen.
Yes, but the carotids are on the side of the neck, not on the back. The cop didn't press against the carotids.
Good point. However it's difficult to see if the knee was pressed against the carotid, and how hard it was pressed.
Take your hand and make a fist. Now press that fist to the side of your neck as hard as you can. Notice that you don’t pass out?
There’s a thick layer of muscle there that protects your arteries. You would either need to jam your knee under his chin into his neck from the front, or crush his neck from the side.
There’s no way he could have blocked his carotid arteries in that position. They are closer to the front of your neck than the side, which had a thick layer of muscle.
If it could, it would be used in wrestling or jujitsu, or something similar. What I find funny is that zero of the YouTube martial artists are analyzing this hold. What you can find, are knee-on-neck holds on the front of the neck. But not the back.
Exactly! He said he couldn’t breathe even before he was on the ground!!!!!
This guy implies it's a hoax.
https://twitter.com/Seekthetruth101/status/1266637895491870720
Wtf??????
i tend to agree, yeah.
But all the Rashard Brooks footage was released pretty fast. It is clear- if there was anything damning on the body cam footage, it would have been released right away. The fact that is hasn't, tells us it probably destroys their narrative so they do not want it released.
The powers that be … don’t want us to know the truth.
Pretty sure that didn’t happen.
Had to look that case up. It doesn't look like he got shot with his own taser. But, the guy did run, he did turn around and knock the taser out of the cops hand. The cop was probably? Wrong here, but 18 years? Honestly, if I was the cop, I might have done the same thing in the moment. And, really? If I was pulled over by a cop, I wouldn't run and I definitely wouldn't attack the taser in a cops hands as I was running, if I was stupid enough to run in the first place - mainly because I would be pretty sure I'd get shot if I did. It played out badly, it really did, and I could see the cop losing his job, and possibly? Going to prison for a time? But 18 or 20 years? Watching the videos I watched, the punishment seems a bit more extreme than the crime I saw.
Sure seems that way.
Yep
But the Brooks footage hurt the narrative? It clearly showed him firing a weapon at the officers.
I'm confused at what narrative you're referring to.
If they released them everyone would realize the cops weren't lying about him complaining about not being able to breathe long before he was on the ground. Most retards think they're just liars.
My first thought when all this came out was, I wonder if this will be like the Covington kids video. The fact that it's been a month and no bodycam footage, while the Brooks video came out like a week after the event, makes me think it's another cover-up.
i don't know about this...the RayRay case was pretty damning for RayRay, yet it was released immediately
It's not being released because it will show George Floyd inebriated, resisting arrest, crying wolf about not being able to breathe before he's even on the ground in order to resist arrest, lie about being claustrophobic to resist arrest.
👍👍
Yep!!! We’ve seen that from the restaurant security camera footage too!!!!
x2
The question I keep asking is ..."where is the racism?"
Everyone seems to see it...but its really not there.
IT IS ANOTHER MADE UP FAKE HATE CRIME.
Racism is being white
Yep
The left has a racism fetish!!!!!
The left: I don't want the whole story, I want to riot and burn things!
Yep
I dunno - I want the whole story AND I want to riot and burn things. I’m not about to lose this country to a bunch of low life’s they care nothing about liberty, limited government or the Republic.
Like the truth about the JFK assassination.
"better safe than sorry"
👍👍👍
Agreed. Something else is going on. Why were reports that they knew each other suddenly memory holed?
We all going to the club tonight!!
That’s the only reason I cN thinK of , to
Because the body cam footage exonerates and humanizes the cops. You can't make inhuman monsters out of them with that footage floating around.
Yep
this
They will release the body Cam footage before the election, drop the charges or cut a sweet plea deal, and set off Civil War 2.
Riots and riots and more riots.
That's good. I hope they riot. More redpills thrown around.
Best be contained to the cities.
We are armed out here in MAGA country. Well armed.
Because Keith Ellison deems it too important to the investigation for the public to see it.
Sure he does
https://news.yahoo.com/keith-ellison-releasing-body-camera-201758036.html
When asked if body camera footage would be released before the trial, Minnesota AG Keith Ellison said, “I’m a firm believer in transparency, and the public’s right to know, but a higher priority for me is a successful prosecution. Therefore, I’ll consult with our lead investigators and I’ll say to them ‘when can we release this information to the public and still safeguard the prosecution.’ If we can do it before [trial] I would have no problem with doing that.”
Notice the Freudian slip there?
“I’ll say to them”
Not “I’ll ask”
Ok. I missed. That. Great catch!!!
No need to know the whole story, the KKK choked him to death with a noose that they then took to Talladega speed way, and then knocked out a black man and put him in a Wendy's drive thru line.
Open your eyes racist!
If you didn't notice, this is all sarcasm
First of all… it’s MA’AM!! And secondly, How dare you!!! Finally, I was literally shaking!!!
lol !!!
Yep
They have a partial audio transcript from the body cams, and it shows that they were actually trying to help Floyd. One cops says "I'm worried about excited delirium, or whatever", "should we turn him over in his side"? And then officer Chauvin says "no, that's why we have him on his stomach".
So, they were either trying to not kill him, or they were just saying those things on the body cams so that they could murder him in broad daylight, with people filming and watching. Which makes more sense?
Gonna be used in court to save the cops life.
I want interviews with the people filming! Would think they are david hogg level for being there as it happened, but strangely silent
Because it's most likely if anything that both of them had beef and past history and footage not seen shows that at the end of the day it was two criminals.
Yep. I’m sur the two of them were having words about ???
Remember when Steven Paddock supposedly fired more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition from his 32nd floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel, killing 58 people and wounding 413, with the ensuing panic bringing the injury total to 869.
What's up with that ?
Good question. Is our FBI still investigating ???
Ellen deGeneres is going to get right back on the case after lockdown
Can’t wait !!
How about those "paramedics" that hopped out of the ambulance to administer aid? Sure looked fishy af
Because he died of a drug overdose (Fentanyl) and the police were following procedure for Excided Delerium (and he would have died from the drugs anyway) but if the media disparages "Saint George" there will be more rioting/looting.
I actually think that the body cam might be a cop actually doing something wrong. The only reason I think that is having that come out during a trial in say 4 months might have a bigger affect on some that happens in November. Though I can’t remember what happens in November
131 days …
November 3, 2020
Vote to save America Trump 2020
you cant find footage because you are using google. use duck duck. there are 4 or 5 different videos. its pretty clear felony floyd died from a drug overdose that caused a heart attack. its all in the ME report. he died hours later at the hospital. he killed himself. the cops 100% did nothing wrong. just look for the videos. they are all there. even the one that shows him dropping the bag of drugs.
he died because he deserved to die. he killed himself.
screw felony floyd. this is a CCP plot to overthrow the USA
How did Floyd end up from being in the back seat of the cop car with closed door, to on the other side of the vehicle (street side)? Seems to me he was trying to break free of custody.
And the faux noose was investigated and disproven in a few days... Hmmm
Yep.
Probably the same outsourced security company that guarded Epstein was guarding the body cam tapes.
Yes. If only. We did. I belive they are still shredding documents
Ah the irony of the world.
When a movement morphs into a religion, facts don't matter. The less we say about him the sooner 'non-believers' can go on with their lives.
Yep
Probably for the same reason that there is no footage of Epstein’s suicide or hotel surveillance at the Los Vegas shootings hotel.
I'm guessing its either vindictive or its really bad and they're going to leak it during the trial right before the election.
Yep. Justice be dammed … Only the acquisition of power matters
Conspiracy theory?: George Floyd was a crisis actor.
Because his death was faked.
MSM and Democrat run NY AG's office: "nah"
They won't show it because it shows that he was resisting arrest and they can't have that cat being let out of the bag. But we all know that.
👍👍👍
When you start pissing cops off, when you start attacking them, they begin leaking information related to the case. If there was such camera footage they would’ve released a long time ago
👍👍👍
George who? We are 40 or 50 nameless dead from the radicals in 30 days.
This is not the hill to die on.
Our president felt pressure to react based based on this hoax, which makes it twice as insulting. I wish he had to balls to tell them all to fuck off.
We don’t even have the motive of Chauvin. Possible he had personal revenge against Floyd since they knew each other.
Yep. Too many coincidences
It should be clear by now that George Floyd's death was just an excuse to do what the Communists have been wanting to do for a long time. George Floyd could be revealed to have never died and it would not change a thing.
These people hate America.
Yep
Must be where they put the Vegas mass shooting videos. There’s a believable story right? Probably the city in the US with the most cameras and we see not a single video of the alleged single shooter carrying an armory into his room. Gotcha...
Yes. The powers that be don’t wNt is to know
The left sure as shit doesn't want the whole story. But then again, do they ever?
It's almost like reality doesn't match their bullshit narrative...
Leftist only care about acquisition of Power
Dems forced body cams so that they could use the footage selectively
That seems to be a common theme. Anyone remember a massacre at a Las Vegas country music concert? Memory holed
Yep. Where are all those videos and FBI documents!!
Because no one really cares about him. We know that the groups that are behind what's going on now (BLM and others) just needed a spark to start their protest. Floyd was that spark. They never cared about him.
Yep
Nah