Still, we know, absolutely, that it's not normal for police officers to kneel on the back of people's necks, because if that was normal then just about all of them would have broken peoples’ necks.
That report is just describing the circumstances. It's not the result of an autopsy. It also mentions "restraint" and that normally doesn't kill people.
"Just describing the circumstances". Why would they specifically mention "neck compression" as a *"complication reg. the cause of death"?
And in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6F62EdX_yg , George Floyd specifically mentions "Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit.", around 0:20 . Shouldn't protocol demand of Chauvin that he should take special care and consideration and ensure that the suspect resisting arrest can breath and is not dying?
Thank you for the source, though I have to skim through it to find the sources it uses, it is not itself a proper source. It seems to be this file here: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf (I assume that source is trustworthy, though I wouldn't know, it is also from something like "sanfranciscopolice.org"... why would the police of San Francisco have that file? And why would they use the top-level domain '.org'???). And from that file, I am not at all convinced that Chauvin did indeed follow protocol. Page 7 seems to be the relevant part. What is your argument that Chauvin is indeed following the protocol as described on page 7 and elsewhere? Especially reg. Chauvin continuing to use the neck restraint even after George Floyd stopped moving and talking? And without even checking up on whether he was conscious or breathing? Not changing the restraint? Or any other of a large number of actions? Again, there were 4 or more officers. And when George Floyd says things like:
"Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit."
Isn't that an absolutely obvious cue that special care is needed, especially when Floyd stops moving and talking? Does the protocol require police officers to monitor and check subjects that are restrained whether they are breathing, conscious or possibly dying? Or any other related actions, especially when they have stopped moving and talking while under neck restraint?
I think all your points are answered by the article I linked.
Let me tell you from personal experience: if you can't breathe, you can't talk. Surely not as loud as Floyd does in the video.
Obviously the cop doesn't let him go because they judged that they need to keep him restraint for their own safety.
I'm not avoiding, I think I replied to almost everything. I didn't downvote you either.
That quote from quora has been addressed by my article, that presents a study on how much weight there is if someone kneels on you. Not enough weight to cut the blood flow.
Besides, Floyd didn't have a broken neck.
I reread your post and I think I addressed all the points in my last 2 posts.
Please feel free to reformulate the questions if something is not clear.
But you don't address meaningfully even the majority of my arguments and points in your last 3 posts. And you are 100% aware of that.
That quote from quora has been addressed by my article, that presents a study on how much weight there is if someone kneels on you. Not enough weight to cut the blood flow. Besides, Floyd didn't have a broken neck.
"how much weight there is if someone kneels on you" given various fully significant assumptions.
That article does not at all address the quote from Quora. The quote from Quora is:
Still, we know, absolutely, that it's not normal for police officers to kneel on the back of people's necks, because if that was normal then just about all of them would have broken peoples’ necks.
Did you even read that article? Did you see that it originally came from Medium? Why would you link a source without reading that article yourself and yet claim that it refutes the claims, without giving parts of it?
And your link even itself describes neck restraints as "far fewer cases":
In far fewer cases, persons have been tied to a hospital gurney or manually held prone with knee pressure on the back or neck. [Reg. people experiencing EXD].
Are you lying 100% intentionally?
And the article itself later speculates on how much weight there might have been on the neck and that he might have been leaning this way or the other, which is really, really weird. And the pressure that is applied earlier can change as Chauvin shifts back and forth. And it is not speculation and guessing from a medical examiner, but some guy named "Gavrilo David", which does not seem to have any credentials at all. And the original Meidum article has even been edited and added to. And that does not address either that Chauvin kept applying the pin reg. the neck, didn't change the pin, and didn't check for breathing, consciousness, etc. etc. etc. even after Floyd stopped talking and moving.
The proof of that is that he followed the procedure that he's been taught.
What arguments do you have that he did indeed follow procedure? You haven't answered this part at all. I linked to the source given by the link you gave, and you didn't answer any of those questions. You come with claims and you do not back them up despite me asking for it.
I wrote:
And in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6F62EdX_yg , George Floyd specifically mentions "Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit.", around 0:20 . Shouldn't protocol demand of Chauvin that he should take special care and consideration and ensure that the suspect resisting arrest can breath and is not dying?
You do not argue against or reg. this anywhere, and you are fully aware of that. And you claim that the random blog post article (which originates from Medium) argues it, yet you don't even source any snippets from it.
From my previous comment:
Thank you for the source, though I have to skim through it to find the sources it uses, it is not itself a proper source. It seems to be this file here: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf (I assume that source is trustworthy, though I wouldn't know, it is also from something like "sanfranciscopolice.org"... why would the police of San Francisco have that file? And why would they use the top-level domain '.org'???). And from that file, I am not at all convinced that Chauvin did indeed follow protocol. Page 7 seems to be the relevant part. What is your argument that Chauvin is indeed following the protocol as described on page 7 and elsewhere? Especially reg. Chauvin continuing to use the neck restraint even after George Floyd stopped moving and talking? And without even checking up on whether he was conscious or breathing? Not changing the restraint? Or any other of a large number of actions? Again, there were 4 or more officers. And when George Floyd says things like:
"Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit."
Isn't that an absolutely obvious cue that special care is needed, especially when Floyd stops moving and talking? Does the protocol require police officers to monitor and check subjects that are restrained whether they are breathing, conscious or possibly dying? Or any other related actions, especially when they have stopped moving and talking while under neck restraint?
Where are your arguments reg. any of this? Are you lying 100% intentionally?
Yeah, I have trouble telling from the video as well. I cannot exclude that the pressure was never high, and I cannot exclude that the pressure was high at times or a lot of the time. I don't recall whether I saw Chauvin seemingly shift back and forth. The height difference between Floyd's back and his neck might have made it possibly more severe, possibly less severe. It might have made it more difficult for Chauvin to balance, and thus end up applying more pressure at times. Chauvin also had his hands in his pockets as I recall, at least a lot of the time, which I would guess would make balancing more difficult.
It still seems incredibly strange to me that he didn't move the pin from Floyd's neck to his back after Floyd stopped moving or talking. Why not check whether he is conscious? Whether he is breathing? A large number of other things? Especially given Floyd's previous repeated talking of "I can't breath" and them talking about him possibly being sick or drugged up or similar. And... the neck is an obvious fragile and vulnerable part...
You don't comment on the part I wrote reg. "Paul Harding" in https://www.quora.com/Why-do-police-put-their-knee-on-the-back-of-your-neck-when-cuffing-you , again:
"Just describing the circumstances". Why would they specifically mention "neck compression" as a *"complication reg. the cause of death"?
And in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6F62EdX_yg , George Floyd specifically mentions "Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe shit.", around 0:20 . Shouldn't protocol demand of Chauvin that he should take special care and consideration and ensure that the suspect resisting arrest can breath and is not dying?
Thank you for the source, though I have to skim through it to find the sources it uses, it is not itself a proper source. It seems to be this file here: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf (I assume that source is trustworthy, though I wouldn't know, it is also from something like "sanfranciscopolice.org"... why would the police of San Francisco have that file? And why would they use the top-level domain '.org'???). And from that file, I am not at all convinced that Chauvin did indeed follow protocol. Page 7 seems to be the relevant part. What is your argument that Chauvin is indeed following the protocol as described on page 7 and elsewhere? Especially reg. Chauvin continuing to use the neck restraint even after George Floyd stopped moving and talking? And without even checking up on whether he was conscious or breathing? Not changing the restraint? Or any other of a large number of actions? Again, there were 4 or more officers. And when George Floyd says things like:
Isn't that an absolutely obvious cue that special care is needed, especially when Floyd stops moving and talking? Does the protocol require police officers to monitor and check subjects that are restrained whether they are breathing, conscious or possibly dying? Or any other related actions, especially when they have stopped moving and talking while under neck restraint?
I think all your points are answered by the article I linked.
Let me tell you from personal experience: if you can't breathe, you can't talk. Surely not as loud as Floyd does in the video. Obviously the cop doesn't let him go because they judged that they need to keep him restraint for their own safety.
......... then it ought to be very easy for you to reference or copy-paste them. And that site is not even an authority.
Please, again, answer my arguments and questions in https://thedonald.win/p/FzTveRM4/x/c/12jJilPyHy . They are relevant and it is as if you are evading or avoiding them.
(as an aside, I did not downvote you).
I'm not avoiding, I think I replied to almost everything. I didn't downvote you either.
That quote from quora has been addressed by my article, that presents a study on how much weight there is if someone kneels on you. Not enough weight to cut the blood flow. Besides, Floyd didn't have a broken neck.
I reread your post and I think I addressed all the points in my last 2 posts. Please feel free to reformulate the questions if something is not clear.
But you don't address meaningfully even the majority of my arguments and points in your last 3 posts. And you are 100% aware of that.
"how much weight there is if someone kneels on you" given various fully significant assumptions.
That article does not at all address the quote from Quora. The quote from Quora is:
Did you even read that article? Did you see that it originally came from Medium? Why would you link a source without reading that article yourself and yet claim that it refutes the claims, without giving parts of it?
And the study at https://journals.lww.com/amjforensicmedicine/Abstract/2019/03000/Applied_Force_During_Prone_Restraint__Is_Officer.1.aspx does not seem to mention kneeling on necks at all (and there is a paywall as far as I can see). Can you show me that I am wrong? Does that study indeed mention kneeling on necks?
And your link even itself describes neck restraints as "far fewer cases":
Are you lying 100% intentionally?
And the article itself later speculates on how much weight there might have been on the neck and that he might have been leaning this way or the other, which is really, really weird. And the pressure that is applied earlier can change as Chauvin shifts back and forth. And it is not speculation and guessing from a medical examiner, but some guy named "Gavrilo David", which does not seem to have any credentials at all. And the original Meidum article has even been edited and added to. And that does not address either that Chauvin kept applying the pin reg. the neck, didn't change the pin, and didn't check for breathing, consciousness, etc. etc. etc. even after Floyd stopped talking and moving.
What arguments do you have that he did indeed follow procedure? You haven't answered this part at all. I linked to the source given by the link you gave, and you didn't answer any of those questions. You come with claims and you do not back them up despite me asking for it.
I wrote:
You do not argue against or reg. this anywhere, and you are fully aware of that. And you claim that the random blog post article (which originates from Medium) argues it, yet you don't even source any snippets from it.
From my previous comment:
Where are your arguments reg. any of this? Are you lying 100% intentionally?
there are different amounts of pressure. It didnt seem like Chauvin had all that much pressure on floyd, but I cant really tell.
Yeah, I have trouble telling from the video as well. I cannot exclude that the pressure was never high, and I cannot exclude that the pressure was high at times or a lot of the time. I don't recall whether I saw Chauvin seemingly shift back and forth. The height difference between Floyd's back and his neck might have made it possibly more severe, possibly less severe. It might have made it more difficult for Chauvin to balance, and thus end up applying more pressure at times. Chauvin also had his hands in his pockets as I recall, at least a lot of the time, which I would guess would make balancing more difficult.
It still seems incredibly strange to me that he didn't move the pin from Floyd's neck to his back after Floyd stopped moving or talking. Why not check whether he is conscious? Whether he is breathing? A large number of other things? Especially given Floyd's previous repeated talking of "I can't breath" and them talking about him possibly being sick or drugged up or similar. And... the neck is an obvious fragile and vulnerable part...