What people don’t realize is that statistic is from like the 60s. When your family was already wealthy and so you went to college to kill time to you were mature enough to get a big boy job with Family and Co. so these people were already going to be wealthy. Now we’ve got a bunch of kids going to get business majors and graduating and coming home to their single parent mother (thanks Dems for destroying Christianity and supporting radical feminism) who probably doesn’t have many business connections because she’s too busy trying to raise kids.
I'm 36, degree in business that I am still paying off, and it did absolutely nothing to help me get jobs throughout my career in IT, which i learned on my own and have done very well for myself and family.
I can't even fathom what it would be like to have the extra ~$100,000 I have been paying off for the past 15 years.
Unless you go in as a 17/18 year old who knows exactly what they want to study, in a STEM field, college is the biggest scam in the world. I did have a lot of fun drinking though.
Nobody can destroy Christianity. Religion maybe but not Christianity. Christians do more to ruin it than unbelievers. They definitely are persecuting us.
This might be the biggest and best thing that I’ve ever heard a president, in my lifetime, say.
I didn’t go to college. I went to the military. I make great money, and am one of the highest performing at my company in my role, and am the only one without a college education. I learned on my own and figured out a way to market my talents.
... oh wait, it’s probably just my white privilege.
It means you no longer have to give a college 50k a year to work a job that only pays $18 an hour.
Just get certified and know your shit; that will be enough to get you hired.
I've said this before and no one would listen. Degrees are becoming worthless unless you're in the medical or STEM field. Most people can be certified and still do the same damn job that someone with a degree in arts can do.
Personal story time. I got an undergrad in Exercise Science during my younger days. Wanted to do PT and it was a more appealing degree to younger me than something like Biology or Physics. I assumed, worst case scenario, I could hop into the medical tech field.
I don't want to shit on the school or program. It's a solid school with lots of awards, and the Exercise Science program there is well respected. However, my senior year, they bring in some people for a job fair kinda thing. And everyone of them is saying "this job requires a specialized tech degree". Long story short, after 4 years, we were then being told to go get a 2 year degree at a tech school for whatever field we wanted. Respiratory tech, X Ray tech, etc. And yes, we could've saved a lot of money and time and gone straight for the 2 year program. A 2 year program turned into fucking 6. My own fault, absolutely. But this is the bullshit that goes on in academia. It's a scam.
Edit and not to knock those tech fields, but they aren't exactly high paying jobs. Solid building block jobs that are stable while you get more credentials, but you don't make shit, generally.
This is a good story that illustrates the importance of finding out the requirements of a career prior to pursuing a degree. It's extremely difficult to do this at 18 because not people know what they want to do. This is the job of guidance councilors. Sadly, most are not worth a damn.
Certifications are a better alternative for degrees in my opinion. Especially if you're looking for someone who is qualified to do a certain task.
Take IT for example. I dont think i'll hire someone who doesnt have any qualifications what so ever, as opposed to someone who is certified in the field. I currently have 5 certifications under my belt. I got them because I wanted the responsibility (and pay of course) that I could not have gotten if I wasnt certified. I, in return, had to show my employer that I know what i'm doing. The best way to do that on paper, is to take a test on a highly specified subject and get certified. Especially if you dont have 4 years to get a degree and are looking for something you can get within a month.
Are there some certs out there that are jokes? Sure. Just like there are dumb degrees out there.
But I would always advise someone getting into the IT field to go for certifications rather than waste time in college, unless they plan on being some sort of department head for a major multi-million dollar corporation.
Okay, but what stops companies from just hiring the person that went to college anyway? It has more or less become the "standard" that someone has a degree in their subject?
For government jobs I see it having an impact but as far as the private sector I'd still expect quota hiring feminist studies majors.
Private businesses will do what they will. This will shut down the cultural push to go to college to begin with so you'll have less people wasting time and money in colleges and out getting real world experience. A company hiring people to do a job will 100% take life experience over nothing but a degree.
If you lose a possible job to a fem major, you will 100% be better off lol
It doesn't stop anyone, even the government, from hiring the person that went to college anyway.
It just stops the parroting.
Over the past 8 years, I've hired about 50 roles, with the approximation of reviewing 10-15 resumes per role. To my recollection, I have looked at educational backgrounds only 6 times or so, and that's only because the role I was looking to fill was an entry level role with some applicants having had no work experience whatsoever.
Otherwise, I look at 4 factors: your work experience, how you fared in those experiences, why you are looking for a new role, and what can you bring to my team. In short, it's merit based. I don't give a shit if you have a degree in a related field or dropped out. I don't care. But are you the best person for this role? That's all that matters. And on the contrary, someone who is overeducated (i.e. 2 PHDs, etc.) is a red flag for me.
It doesnt stop them. Private companies have the option to hire who ever they want, and if they want to hire someone with a degree over someone who is experienced and know their shit, then that's their business.
This is only being applied to federal jobs as far as I know. Which in my opinion, is great. Right now i'm a federal contractor working IT. But with this new EO, it would allow me to apply for my job as a CIV rather than a CTR. I would make less money, sure, but I would be allowed to retire a second time (prior military) and I could potentially be collecting 2 retirement checks by the time i'm 50. And as a CIV, I wouldnt have to worry about my CTR position going away or having to go through the headache of moving my retirement plan over to the new contract.
Those degrees mean something because most who study mathematics have a better understanding of numbers and laws of physics. Most actuators have a masters in mathematics and are usually paid big $$ for the amount of numbers they have to process for companies or firms. Insurance companies for example, would want someone with a mathematics degree rather than someone who is just certified to handle risk calculations.
I see a lot of replies that are missing the real point of this directive.
Essentially, Trump is trying to bust up the good old boys club. A lot of people probably don't understand how this all works, but if you go to an Ivy league school, or one of the other half dozen prestigious schools in this country, you build a network with fellow class mates, professors and, if you show "promise", influential alumni start to "mentor" you. These Alumni are seated in positions of power throughout our government and they all consider each other friends, or at the very least, comrades who try to scratch each other's backs,
Since these individual's loyalty almost certainly does not lie in upholding the constitution, but in the friendships and mentor-ships they have developed since they were a young kid in college...or even earlier, this weaves a dangerous web where our government officials see anyone who isn't in their little clique as a potential enemy. This further strengthens the bond between these people and leads to all kinds of corruption.
I don't know how effective this move by Trump will be, but at least it's a start.
What it also does is slow the flow of fully indoctrinated leftists into powerful bureaucratic positions within government. This will help keep the swamp drained, assuming he’s able to drain it.
Precisely. This is what Trump means when he says these people actually hate our country. They detest people outside their little clique and view themselves as the elite. Amazing that a person with Trump’s background can have more in common with the hard working people of this country than these so-called “elites”.
It means the Federal government will now be helping to hasten the already ongoing decline of non-STEM higher education (and could also somewhat impact the T in STEM). It's genuinely good news.
Non-stem classical education is a good thing. It generally should be reserved for the affluent (or be done part time), since it doesn’t help you get a job. But it shoukd exist. Faggot studies of course does not count as classical liberal arts.
Sure, I didn't say it shouldn't exist. But in it's current overall form and state it needs to decline. Which I suspect will result in a lot of the garbage being pared away.
I switched to the trades a couple years ago but picked carpentry, the least valuable one, or so it seems. Fortunately, I've landed a pretty damn good job, but I'm already close to my ceiling. I've been seriously thinking about going to apprentice in welding or plumbing, but that initial pay cut is pretty substantial. And being mid-30's, I've always wanted my own business, and I don't know if I have enough time to learn enough about plumbing to go on my own in this timespan. Any thoughts? A switch within the trades to something like welding worthwhile in the long run?
You see this in IT: certs and degrees only get you so far. My team is compromised of talented, degreeless engineers. My other company had people with 30+ certs and near useless on the job.
One of my favorite parts of being a non-degree'd hiring manager in the IT field, is round filing the resumes of people who have 2-3 degrees, often w/ a masters or 2, and no relevant work experience.
Some people want to work, others want to go to school. I see a resume for someone that almost has to be at or over 30 years old with no relevant work experience, I know which one I'm dealing with. Next.
I have a buddy who doesn’t even have a GED. Got into VOiP early. Now he’s the bad ass that can fix anything in his company, makes 120k a year, and works from home 90%.
I think they are underwritten by the federal government in order to get them to loan the money. He should allow the federal government to eat the debt (which is what happens if you declare bankruptcy on your student loans) and then declare bankruptcy on all the debt and put us on a sound money system. But he can’t do that unless certain things are done first, such as today’s action. If everyone’s still borrowing money to go to college it wouldn’t fix the problem
Big Education is the trojan horse of communism. Teachers unions from Kindergarten up are straight up pozzed by socialist and communist radicals at every level and its their job to feed our children to the BANKS for the college scam.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a college degree if its what you feel you really need to achieve a personal goal, but the drastic shift in the last 40 years from college being a specialized thing for people with specialized skills, to literally the entire world requiring you to have at least an associates degree to do anything but flip burgers is all part of the system of fraud these fuckers are engaged in.
Indoctrinate and Indebt - No one can be truly free in a system that does these two things by DEFAULT.
CANCEL BIG EDUCATION!
He effectively canceled all the "YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE TO GET A JOB" parrots
Fuck yesh
Now do the same at the Federal Reserve
What people don’t realize is that statistic is from like the 60s. When your family was already wealthy and so you went to college to kill time to you were mature enough to get a big boy job with Family and Co. so these people were already going to be wealthy. Now we’ve got a bunch of kids going to get business majors and graduating and coming home to their single parent mother (thanks Dems for destroying Christianity and supporting radical feminism) who probably doesn’t have many business connections because she’s too busy trying to raise kids.
I'm 36, degree in business that I am still paying off, and it did absolutely nothing to help me get jobs throughout my career in IT, which i learned on my own and have done very well for myself and family. I can't even fathom what it would be like to have the extra ~$100,000 I have been paying off for the past 15 years. Unless you go in as a 17/18 year old who knows exactly what they want to study, in a STEM field, college is the biggest scam in the world. I did have a lot of fun drinking though.
I think the problem is too many people getting useless degrees, not people getting practical degrees and not knowing how to use them.
Nobody can destroy Christianity. Religion maybe but not Christianity. Christians do more to ruin it than unbelievers. They definitely are persecuting us.
This is YUGE!
For Federal Govt work only
It’s a start.
This might be the biggest and best thing that I’ve ever heard a president, in my lifetime, say.
I didn’t go to college. I went to the military. I make great money, and am one of the highest performing at my company in my role, and am the only one without a college education. I learned on my own and figured out a way to market my talents.
... oh wait, it’s probably just my white privilege.
No. We did it.
It means you no longer have to give a college 50k a year to work a job that only pays $18 an hour.
Just get certified and know your shit; that will be enough to get you hired.
I've said this before and no one would listen. Degrees are becoming worthless unless you're in the medical or STEM field. Most people can be certified and still do the same damn job that someone with a degree in arts can do.
Personal story time. I got an undergrad in Exercise Science during my younger days. Wanted to do PT and it was a more appealing degree to younger me than something like Biology or Physics. I assumed, worst case scenario, I could hop into the medical tech field.
I don't want to shit on the school or program. It's a solid school with lots of awards, and the Exercise Science program there is well respected. However, my senior year, they bring in some people for a job fair kinda thing. And everyone of them is saying "this job requires a specialized tech degree". Long story short, after 4 years, we were then being told to go get a 2 year degree at a tech school for whatever field we wanted. Respiratory tech, X Ray tech, etc. And yes, we could've saved a lot of money and time and gone straight for the 2 year program. A 2 year program turned into fucking 6. My own fault, absolutely. But this is the bullshit that goes on in academia. It's a scam.
Edit and not to knock those tech fields, but they aren't exactly high paying jobs. Solid building block jobs that are stable while you get more credentials, but you don't make shit, generally.
This is a good story that illustrates the importance of finding out the requirements of a career prior to pursuing a degree. It's extremely difficult to do this at 18 because not people know what they want to do. This is the job of guidance councilors. Sadly, most are not worth a damn.
Certification is another joke. As an employer, it'll be up to you to do your proper due diligence to get the person for the role.
Certifications are a better alternative for degrees in my opinion. Especially if you're looking for someone who is qualified to do a certain task.
Take IT for example. I dont think i'll hire someone who doesnt have any qualifications what so ever, as opposed to someone who is certified in the field. I currently have 5 certifications under my belt. I got them because I wanted the responsibility (and pay of course) that I could not have gotten if I wasnt certified. I, in return, had to show my employer that I know what i'm doing. The best way to do that on paper, is to take a test on a highly specified subject and get certified. Especially if you dont have 4 years to get a degree and are looking for something you can get within a month.
Are there some certs out there that are jokes? Sure. Just like there are dumb degrees out there.
But I would always advise someone getting into the IT field to go for certifications rather than waste time in college, unless they plan on being some sort of department head for a major multi-million dollar corporation.
Okay, but what stops companies from just hiring the person that went to college anyway? It has more or less become the "standard" that someone has a degree in their subject?
For government jobs I see it having an impact but as far as the private sector I'd still expect quota hiring feminist studies majors.
Private businesses will do what they will. This will shut down the cultural push to go to college to begin with so you'll have less people wasting time and money in colleges and out getting real world experience. A company hiring people to do a job will 100% take life experience over nothing but a degree.
If you lose a possible job to a fem major, you will 100% be better off lol
It doesn't stop anyone, even the government, from hiring the person that went to college anyway.
It just stops the parroting.
Over the past 8 years, I've hired about 50 roles, with the approximation of reviewing 10-15 resumes per role. To my recollection, I have looked at educational backgrounds only 6 times or so, and that's only because the role I was looking to fill was an entry level role with some applicants having had no work experience whatsoever.
Otherwise, I look at 4 factors: your work experience, how you fared in those experiences, why you are looking for a new role, and what can you bring to my team. In short, it's merit based. I don't give a shit if you have a degree in a related field or dropped out. I don't care. But are you the best person for this role? That's all that matters. And on the contrary, someone who is overeducated (i.e. 2 PHDs, etc.) is a red flag for me.
This Cascades into private because gov contracts would require contractors to be pedigreed.
It doesnt stop them. Private companies have the option to hire who ever they want, and if they want to hire someone with a degree over someone who is experienced and know their shit, then that's their business.
This is only being applied to federal jobs as far as I know. Which in my opinion, is great. Right now i'm a federal contractor working IT. But with this new EO, it would allow me to apply for my job as a CIV rather than a CTR. I would make less money, sure, but I would be allowed to retire a second time (prior military) and I could potentially be collecting 2 retirement checks by the time i'm 50. And as a CIV, I wouldnt have to worry about my CTR position going away or having to go through the headache of moving my retirement plan over to the new contract.
Does the M in STEM stand for medical or something else?
I always thought it was medical. Maybe it’s math though. What do you do with a math degree though; that’s not an applied degree.
Edit: I think math is sick btw. So I wasn’t trashing math.
The M in STEM means mathematics.
Those degrees mean something because most who study mathematics have a better understanding of numbers and laws of physics. Most actuators have a masters in mathematics and are usually paid big $$ for the amount of numbers they have to process for companies or firms. Insurance companies for example, would want someone with a mathematics degree rather than someone who is just certified to handle risk calculations.
M is mathematics.
I hope it means bringing back the civics test
Probably revamping the GS resume system and degree requirements
I see a lot of replies that are missing the real point of this directive.
Essentially, Trump is trying to bust up the good old boys club. A lot of people probably don't understand how this all works, but if you go to an Ivy league school, or one of the other half dozen prestigious schools in this country, you build a network with fellow class mates, professors and, if you show "promise", influential alumni start to "mentor" you. These Alumni are seated in positions of power throughout our government and they all consider each other friends, or at the very least, comrades who try to scratch each other's backs,
Since these individual's loyalty almost certainly does not lie in upholding the constitution, but in the friendships and mentor-ships they have developed since they were a young kid in college...or even earlier, this weaves a dangerous web where our government officials see anyone who isn't in their little clique as a potential enemy. This further strengthens the bond between these people and leads to all kinds of corruption.
I don't know how effective this move by Trump will be, but at least it's a start.
What it also does is slow the flow of fully indoctrinated leftists into powerful bureaucratic positions within government. This will help keep the swamp drained, assuming he’s able to drain it.
Precisely. This is what Trump means when he says these people actually hate our country. They detest people outside their little clique and view themselves as the elite. Amazing that a person with Trump’s background can have more in common with the hard working people of this country than these so-called “elites”.
This is exactly what I assumed POTUS meant. HE is draining another type of swamp/cutting off the muh alumni nepotism in Washington
This is probably how we ended up with shitty FBI directors like Comey. Anything that moves us more towards a merit-based system is a good idea.
Also put a damper on all the “fraternity” preference for filling up federal jobs with fellow secret society members like Skull & Bones.
It means the Federal government will now be helping to hasten the already ongoing decline of non-STEM higher education (and could also somewhat impact the T in STEM). It's genuinely good news.
Non-stem classical education is a good thing. It generally should be reserved for the affluent (or be done part time), since it doesn’t help you get a job. But it shoukd exist. Faggot studies of course does not count as classical liberal arts.
Classical Education in the manner in which you describe no longer exists at any university except Hillsdale.
Not to mention - that shit is all stuff that you can just read on your own.
Sure, I didn't say it shouldn't exist. But in it's current overall form and state it needs to decline. Which I suspect will result in a lot of the garbage being pared away.
Hopefully it impacts the T in young males.
I have a T degree. Industrial Technology. My ideal field is consultancy for construction and engineering, but I do all types of welding and machining.
I currently work as an optician. Too many imported folks that will weld and machine for minimum wage.
I switched to the trades a couple years ago but picked carpentry, the least valuable one, or so it seems. Fortunately, I've landed a pretty damn good job, but I'm already close to my ceiling. I've been seriously thinking about going to apprentice in welding or plumbing, but that initial pay cut is pretty substantial. And being mid-30's, I've always wanted my own business, and I don't know if I have enough time to learn enough about plumbing to go on my own in this timespan. Any thoughts? A switch within the trades to something like welding worthwhile in the long run?
Posted his before but bears repeating:
You see this in IT: certs and degrees only get you so far. My team is compromised of talented, degreeless engineers. My other company had people with 30+ certs and near useless on the job.
Skills over degrees.
One of my favorite parts of being a non-degree'd hiring manager in the IT field, is round filing the resumes of people who have 2-3 degrees, often w/ a masters or 2, and no relevant work experience.
Some people want to work, others want to go to school. I see a resume for someone that almost has to be at or over 30 years old with no relevant work experience, I know which one I'm dealing with. Next.
I have a buddy who doesn’t even have a GED. Got into VOiP early. Now he’s the bad ass that can fix anything in his company, makes 120k a year, and works from home 90%.
I think they are underwritten by the federal government in order to get them to loan the money. He should allow the federal government to eat the debt (which is what happens if you declare bankruptcy on your student loans) and then declare bankruptcy on all the debt and put us on a sound money system. But he can’t do that unless certain things are done first, such as today’s action. If everyone’s still borrowing money to go to college it wouldn’t fix the problem
He would win over 90% of the remaining bernouts with that
This is a fantastic idea.
Gov owns that debt. If they sell it off first and then get out of student loans completely, then yes, make it dischargeable like any other debt.
Alot of those majors should not be eligible for aid. Watch the number of people taking it plunge once they realize they have to pay out of pocket.
Does this mean that we can shut down Radical Left Cultural Marxist Indoctrination Centers?!
Big Education is the trojan horse of communism. Teachers unions from Kindergarten up are straight up pozzed by socialist and communist radicals at every level and its their job to feed our children to the BANKS for the college scam.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a college degree if its what you feel you really need to achieve a personal goal, but the drastic shift in the last 40 years from college being a specialized thing for people with specialized skills, to literally the entire world requiring you to have at least an associates degree to do anything but flip burgers is all part of the system of fraud these fuckers are engaged in.
Indoctrinate and Indebt - No one can be truly free in a system that does these two things by DEFAULT.