It means you no longer have to give a college 50k a year to work a job that only pays $18 an hour.
Just get certified and know your shit; that will be enough to get you hired.
I've said this before and no one would listen. Degrees are becoming worthless unless you're in the medical or STEM field. Most people can be certified and still do the same damn job that someone with a degree in arts can do.
Personal story time. I got an undergrad in Exercise Science during my younger days. Wanted to do PT and it was a more appealing degree to younger me than something like Biology or Physics. I assumed, worst case scenario, I could hop into the medical tech field.
I don't want to shit on the school or program. It's a solid school with lots of awards, and the Exercise Science program there is well respected. However, my senior year, they bring in some people for a job fair kinda thing. And everyone of them is saying "this job requires a specialized tech degree". Long story short, after 4 years, we were then being told to go get a 2 year degree at a tech school for whatever field we wanted. Respiratory tech, X Ray tech, etc. And yes, we could've saved a lot of money and time and gone straight for the 2 year program. A 2 year program turned into fucking 6. My own fault, absolutely. But this is the bullshit that goes on in academia. It's a scam.
Edit and not to knock those tech fields, but they aren't exactly high paying jobs. Solid building block jobs that are stable while you get more credentials, but you don't make shit, generally.
This is a good story that illustrates the importance of finding out the requirements of a career prior to pursuing a degree. It's extremely difficult to do this at 18 because not people know what they want to do. This is the job of guidance councilors. Sadly, most are not worth a damn.
Exactly. The guidance counselors all give you shitty advice. Who the hell knows what to do at 18? You're supposed to look toward adults to guide you and give you good advice. But they're not.
That shit is so dumb, I don't understand the idea of parents sending their kids straight to college right out of high school just so they don't have to "deal with them" anymore. I condemn the shit out of those kind of parents.
Parents are literally setting their children up for failure with this outdated dumb mindset.
True story, all the other peers in my group had an additional year of college because they let the guidance counselor map out their classes instead of doing it themselves like I did. The counselors added a bunch of courses that were not applicable to their degrees.
Certifications are a better alternative for degrees in my opinion. Especially if you're looking for someone who is qualified to do a certain task.
Take IT for example. I dont think i'll hire someone who doesnt have any qualifications what so ever, as opposed to someone who is certified in the field. I currently have 5 certifications under my belt. I got them because I wanted the responsibility (and pay of course) that I could not have gotten if I wasnt certified. I, in return, had to show my employer that I know what i'm doing. The best way to do that on paper, is to take a test on a highly specified subject and get certified. Especially if you dont have 4 years to get a degree and are looking for something you can get within a month.
Are there some certs out there that are jokes? Sure. Just like there are dumb degrees out there.
But I would always advise someone getting into the IT field to go for certifications rather than waste time in college, unless they plan on being some sort of department head for a major multi-million dollar corporation.
which is why for technical positions there should be something more akin to apprenticeships. I learned far more having a self-taught netsec guy as a roommate for three years than I did all of university
I guess the point I was trying to make is that every case is going to be different and having certs or degrees is a nothingburger. It will be up to you as the hiring manager to make sure you find what's best for you, regardless of credentials.
I've hired PMs with their PMP and CSM certs who were absolutely horrible. They did things by the book, and the devs hated working with them. I've also worked with engineers who tout their 10 certifications behind their titles, but they aren't able to fully articulate the difference between a DSN and a DNS. Now, the converse is true as well. I've worked with fantastic engineers who did get their certs and who did finish with CS degrees. But the bottom line is that the certs and degrees have never factored in for me.
the bottom line is that the certs and degrees have never factored in for me.
Honestly, I wish there were more hiring managers like you out there.
My job is allowed to hire people without certs, but they have to be able to obtain them within 90 days as per our contract. So there's that too. If they know their shit, a cert shouldn't be hard to get, in my opinion.
Okay, but what stops companies from just hiring the person that went to college anyway? It has more or less become the "standard" that someone has a degree in their subject?
For government jobs I see it having an impact but as far as the private sector I'd still expect quota hiring feminist studies majors.
Private businesses will do what they will. This will shut down the cultural push to go to college to begin with so you'll have less people wasting time and money in colleges and out getting real world experience. A company hiring people to do a job will 100% take life experience over nothing but a degree.
If you lose a possible job to a fem major, you will 100% be better off lol
It doesn't stop anyone, even the government, from hiring the person that went to college anyway.
It just stops the parroting.
Over the past 8 years, I've hired about 50 roles, with the approximation of reviewing 10-15 resumes per role. To my recollection, I have looked at educational backgrounds only 6 times or so, and that's only because the role I was looking to fill was an entry level role with some applicants having had no work experience whatsoever.
Otherwise, I look at 4 factors: your work experience, how you fared in those experiences, why you are looking for a new role, and what can you bring to my team. In short, it's merit based. I don't give a shit if you have a degree in a related field or dropped out. I don't care. But are you the best person for this role? That's all that matters. And on the contrary, someone who is overeducated (i.e. 2 PHDs, etc.) is a red flag for me.
It doesnt stop them. Private companies have the option to hire who ever they want, and if they want to hire someone with a degree over someone who is experienced and know their shit, then that's their business.
This is only being applied to federal jobs as far as I know. Which in my opinion, is great. Right now i'm a federal contractor working IT. But with this new EO, it would allow me to apply for my job as a CIV rather than a CTR. I would make less money, sure, but I would be allowed to retire a second time (prior military) and I could potentially be collecting 2 retirement checks by the time i'm 50. And as a CIV, I wouldnt have to worry about my CTR position going away or having to go through the headache of moving my retirement plan over to the new contract.
Those degrees mean something because most who study mathematics have a better understanding of numbers and laws of physics. Most actuators have a masters in mathematics and are usually paid big $$ for the amount of numbers they have to process for companies or firms. Insurance companies for example, would want someone with a mathematics degree rather than someone who is just certified to handle risk calculations.
It means you no longer have to give a college 50k a year to work a job that only pays $18 an hour.
Just get certified and know your shit; that will be enough to get you hired.
I've said this before and no one would listen. Degrees are becoming worthless unless you're in the medical or STEM field. Most people can be certified and still do the same damn job that someone with a degree in arts can do.
Personal story time. I got an undergrad in Exercise Science during my younger days. Wanted to do PT and it was a more appealing degree to younger me than something like Biology or Physics. I assumed, worst case scenario, I could hop into the medical tech field.
I don't want to shit on the school or program. It's a solid school with lots of awards, and the Exercise Science program there is well respected. However, my senior year, they bring in some people for a job fair kinda thing. And everyone of them is saying "this job requires a specialized tech degree". Long story short, after 4 years, we were then being told to go get a 2 year degree at a tech school for whatever field we wanted. Respiratory tech, X Ray tech, etc. And yes, we could've saved a lot of money and time and gone straight for the 2 year program. A 2 year program turned into fucking 6. My own fault, absolutely. But this is the bullshit that goes on in academia. It's a scam.
Edit and not to knock those tech fields, but they aren't exactly high paying jobs. Solid building block jobs that are stable while you get more credentials, but you don't make shit, generally.
This is a good story that illustrates the importance of finding out the requirements of a career prior to pursuing a degree. It's extremely difficult to do this at 18 because not people know what they want to do. This is the job of guidance councilors. Sadly, most are not worth a damn.
Exactly. The guidance counselors all give you shitty advice. Who the hell knows what to do at 18? You're supposed to look toward adults to guide you and give you good advice. But they're not.
Military is a good way to figure it out. As long as you can stay disciplined and not become a raging alcoholic.
Take 4 years, serve your country and figure out what career may be the best for you.
Can take classes while you are serving, then use GI Bill upon completion.
Best decision I ever made in my life
That shit is so dumb, I don't understand the idea of parents sending their kids straight to college right out of high school just so they don't have to "deal with them" anymore. I condemn the shit out of those kind of parents.
Parents are literally setting their children up for failure with this outdated dumb mindset.
Boomer Yuppie mindset, the same fucks who warehouse their own parents because "I just can't deal with it"
True story, all the other peers in my group had an additional year of college because they let the guidance counselor map out their classes instead of doing it themselves like I did. The counselors added a bunch of courses that were not applicable to their degrees.
Not anymore, LOL. Chinese virus put an end to that shit.
Airlines got canceled due to covid. I have to find a good side gig until the game comes back
Certification is another joke. As an employer, it'll be up to you to do your proper due diligence to get the person for the role.
Certifications are a better alternative for degrees in my opinion. Especially if you're looking for someone who is qualified to do a certain task.
Take IT for example. I dont think i'll hire someone who doesnt have any qualifications what so ever, as opposed to someone who is certified in the field. I currently have 5 certifications under my belt. I got them because I wanted the responsibility (and pay of course) that I could not have gotten if I wasnt certified. I, in return, had to show my employer that I know what i'm doing. The best way to do that on paper, is to take a test on a highly specified subject and get certified. Especially if you dont have 4 years to get a degree and are looking for something you can get within a month.
Are there some certs out there that are jokes? Sure. Just like there are dumb degrees out there.
But I would always advise someone getting into the IT field to go for certifications rather than waste time in college, unless they plan on being some sort of department head for a major multi-million dollar corporation.
The vast majority of certs are a joke because people pass them and then show up to an interview and know nothing.
which is why for technical positions there should be something more akin to apprenticeships. I learned far more having a self-taught netsec guy as a roommate for three years than I did all of university
I guess the point I was trying to make is that every case is going to be different and having certs or degrees is a nothingburger. It will be up to you as the hiring manager to make sure you find what's best for you, regardless of credentials.
I've hired PMs with their PMP and CSM certs who were absolutely horrible. They did things by the book, and the devs hated working with them. I've also worked with engineers who tout their 10 certifications behind their titles, but they aren't able to fully articulate the difference between a DSN and a DNS. Now, the converse is true as well. I've worked with fantastic engineers who did get their certs and who did finish with CS degrees. But the bottom line is that the certs and degrees have never factored in for me.
Honestly, I wish there were more hiring managers like you out there.
My job is allowed to hire people without certs, but they have to be able to obtain them within 90 days as per our contract. So there's that too. If they know their shit, a cert shouldn't be hard to get, in my opinion.
Okay, but what stops companies from just hiring the person that went to college anyway? It has more or less become the "standard" that someone has a degree in their subject?
For government jobs I see it having an impact but as far as the private sector I'd still expect quota hiring feminist studies majors.
Heh just said same
Private businesses will do what they will. This will shut down the cultural push to go to college to begin with so you'll have less people wasting time and money in colleges and out getting real world experience. A company hiring people to do a job will 100% take life experience over nothing but a degree.
If you lose a possible job to a fem major, you will 100% be better off lol
It doesn't stop anyone, even the government, from hiring the person that went to college anyway.
It just stops the parroting.
Over the past 8 years, I've hired about 50 roles, with the approximation of reviewing 10-15 resumes per role. To my recollection, I have looked at educational backgrounds only 6 times or so, and that's only because the role I was looking to fill was an entry level role with some applicants having had no work experience whatsoever.
Otherwise, I look at 4 factors: your work experience, how you fared in those experiences, why you are looking for a new role, and what can you bring to my team. In short, it's merit based. I don't give a shit if you have a degree in a related field or dropped out. I don't care. But are you the best person for this role? That's all that matters. And on the contrary, someone who is overeducated (i.e. 2 PHDs, etc.) is a red flag for me.
This Cascades into private because gov contracts would require contractors to be pedigreed.
It doesnt stop them. Private companies have the option to hire who ever they want, and if they want to hire someone with a degree over someone who is experienced and know their shit, then that's their business.
This is only being applied to federal jobs as far as I know. Which in my opinion, is great. Right now i'm a federal contractor working IT. But with this new EO, it would allow me to apply for my job as a CIV rather than a CTR. I would make less money, sure, but I would be allowed to retire a second time (prior military) and I could potentially be collecting 2 retirement checks by the time i'm 50. And as a CIV, I wouldnt have to worry about my CTR position going away or having to go through the headache of moving my retirement plan over to the new contract.
Does the M in STEM stand for medical or something else?
I always thought it was medical. Maybe it’s math though. What do you do with a math degree though; that’s not an applied degree.
Edit: I think math is sick btw. So I wasn’t trashing math.
The M in STEM means mathematics.
Those degrees mean something because most who study mathematics have a better understanding of numbers and laws of physics. Most actuators have a masters in mathematics and are usually paid big $$ for the amount of numbers they have to process for companies or firms. Insurance companies for example, would want someone with a mathematics degree rather than someone who is just certified to handle risk calculations.
LOL
WHAT? By some people, you mean no one?... I hope...
M is mathematics.
Leans into mic
WRONG
M is for Make, as in
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Sorry it's late