I am sitting at my normal watering hole on this Friday night.
I have a professional day job. I am also a musician. I decided to sit out on a gig tonight. I’m glad I did.
I packed up my tobacco pipe and headed to my bar. I found a friend of mine as I walked in. He is a very vocal liberal. Hates GEOTUS and everything about him. Fine, whatever.
We talked. It somehow shifted to politics. Weird, since I never bring it up if I know I disagree with whom I am speaking with.
He started ranting about Trump. I listened, as always. I didn’t debate. I just listened.
Then, he did something that flipped a switch.
He called me a racist.
I said absolutely nothing racist. I didn’t defend my political beliefs while he was ranting.
He called me “inherinly racist” for being white. He’s white.
I fucking lost it.
I’m not going to go into what I said due to me not wanting to give too many clues about myself and inadvertently doxxing myself to a fucking leftist. But, I will say that I feel invigorated.
I finally started offering rebuttals to stupid leftist shit on social media.
I’m. Done.
I voted for him in 2016 and (cue Goofy meme) I’ll fucking do it again.
Trump 2020. Let’s Make America Great Again once more, Pedes.
I refuse debate or discussion anymore. My rebuttal to every leftist talking point or accusal:
"Okay. I'm still voting for Trump."
The goal post moving is endless when you offer debate.
They will deny and ignore facts, reality, and any proof you show them.
Then they will lie, lie, lie some more and argue strawmans and what ifs.
After you've debunked all of their insane talking points, they will resort to playing word games with you.
If they still don't give up, they'll just end the insanity by calling you names.
It's pointless to argue with leftists and Democrats.
It always goes straight to, "You're the reason everyone thinks Trump supporters are stupid." Every. Single. Time. It's always the go to.
Tell them "You're the reason your father killed himself."
Won't work on everyone, until you find the right person.
"you're the reason women now want to be men" works better.
More accurately:
I find this to be a scarily accurate summary of what every single debate I’ve had with a leftist is like
Now I just don’t bother and move directly to ridicule
That is one thing that made me give up having political discussions with Leftists. It happen when I was talking to colleagues a few times. Each time they were all fired up over something about Trump, and I had a chance to research Shealy they were talking about, it was outright false. However whenever politics come up, I inform people as quickly as appropriate that I voted for Trump (just so they know who they are talking to), but I politely refuse to debate. I tell them I have no desire to change their mind, and I just wanted to be open about where I stand for conversation’s sake. I think it might piss them off even more because it takes away their ability to browbeat and bitch
Ever slum around in r/AskTrumpSupporters? It's shit, don't bother. Olympic level goalpost moving from the non-supporters, all the time. (Bonus: I got a 1 day suspension for calling out someone for moving goalposts).
Quit going to that site years ago. Too many people there who have never set foot outside and just rage about everything.
I've found when they debate you their entire strategy seems to be to constantly shift what the debate is actually about until you get confused and sound stupid.
What's the saying?
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Or
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Their only way of reeedeeming their views is to reeesort to insult, accusation, and irrational behavior.
This is what kills me. Whenever I bring up the good things Trump has done, the programmed response is “Well he just did that to make himself look good.” Okay, even if that’s true, it IS good for us so who cares? The end result is that he wins and we win, why is that a bad thing?
anything that is good for us, by definition, makes trump look good ...
Exactly! I can’t fathom how that’s seen as a good rebuttal to anything. Is he supposed to only do things that make him look bad?
I’m officially done w debating as well. In 2016 I threw out every single red pill around. Foreign policies, Veterans policies, Wikileaks, anti-lobbyist, anti-globalist, anti-Isis, anti-nation-building.
I lost nearly every single friend. For real. Hundreds of former co-workers & also every longtime “friend” I’ve known for years. Even a close Black friend who was in my wedding party, called me racist after he won.
They refuse to see it. And I am officially done wasting my energy. Life is beautiful. This country is magnificent. And I’m grateful for all of you here who recognize the same truths that I see too!
Lost many "friends" in 2016 as well. But I gained hundreds of thousands of REAL frens on r/T_D and now here. No-brainer of a trade. Art of the Deal, baby. 10/10 would do it again.
Oh shoot!... I forgot to add an important part...
100% would do it exactly the same. I feel liberated.
If ppl disown you bc they’re bigots, I’m better off without them.
you have to do what is right
Large friend groups are a mile wide but an inch deep.
Or this. Say "everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. You believe I am a racist. I believe you are an idiot."
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
I believe we should still debate, bit with a limit. Offer facts and your opinion calmly, they of course won't listen, then sure, default to "I'm still voting for Trump." But we should never give up totally on spreading the truth even if it is hopeless with so many of these people.
Debates are not for the opponent, but to make your case to the silent observer.
Truth! I'm one of those silent observers. Believe it or not, I learned a ton and grew as a person in a way I couldn't have in my normal environment thanks to being exposed to different arguments on the internet. Making an argument is always better than not, especially when you can actually back it up.
It's harder now to get through to people on the internet than it was before, though. In old internet times before every post was given a social credit score, people had to read the words and make a judgment call for themselves weighing the argument being made. Nowadays, if your post isn't outright hidden by a negative score, it carries with it an immediate value judgement given by others. Now, If someone makes what I think is a good point, but their score is at -100, was it actually a good point or did I make a mistake? Everyone around me thinks otherwise, so I must have missed something...
This may be another reason why memes do so well, because they can be distributed everywhere as-is and don't carry a score around with them that could externally sway one's opinion.
this
the opponent is the canvas for you to paint on for the observers to see
Great point!
Nah, they secretly (tee hee) know that they'll be installing a president via the VP choice and (tee hee) they think they're being clever about it.
the funny thing is u didnt even say anything racist or to attack others, u just simply stated you wanted the best for your own ethnicity - its totally possible to want the best for your brethren without harboring ill-intent or malice for any others
its not a bad virtue in anyway to build yourself up while not tearing others down, when you have reached the apex of your strength you are then in a position to help others reach their own apex without sacrificing your own or destroying what you have built
surely if people hate the west and those that built it, they should go from it and build their own empires that are even better
I've never gave this subject any thought until the past 4 years of constantly being shit on because of my race.
This started when they began replacing "racism" with "institutional racism" and them swapped the one definition into the other word.
It's word games. I respond by saying "I believe in equal treatment for everyone regardless of race, creed of gender" and that exposes that they mean the "power plus privilege" bullshit and not "one race is better than another" ACTUAL definition of racism.
I'm done pretending that these people don't belong in a hole.
Fuck that, people need to learn that there are consequences for being an arrogant insulting cocksucker. Call me a few unforgivable names like racist, talk poorly about my mother or wife, eyeball my daughter, and I’m bringing an ass beating your way.
Be respectful or get your comeuppance, it’s the American way. The bullshit we see all over the country today is a direct result of men having no consequences for running their mouth or taking belligerent actions towards other. To quote Trace Adkins
Agree. Otherwise we look like the Antifa fags that resort to violence first. Better just to humiliate him in front of everyone by poking holes in his retarded thoughts and then, if he escalated things, knock him to the floor.
It's cute that you think it's going to ever go down that way. The more realistic scenerio:
They'll scream in your face about how racist you are. Anything you say to that contrary is simply booed by the cucked crowd. Not too long after, one of the crowd members bludgeons you with a bike lock. You are now in a hospital and the person responsible for that won't get charged by the police because reasons.
Fellow musician! My switch flipped in a plumbing parts house during Kavinaugh's televised bullshit. He started mouthing off that he was a rapist. I am mild mannered, laid back, but I couldn't stop listing his accomplishments from high school to present. Was at that location for a month. Every time I walked in I was met with "There's the mother fucker!" and a slap on the back! There are more LIKE US than you know.
They really don't know how many of us there are. Who we are and where we might come from. I hope that does scare them.
It’s good seeing fellow musicians that support the President. We’re rare in our field!
I think the biggest reason Trump haters are so loud and always bashing is because they only see one side of things and assume that one side is the absolute truth, so they assume anyone listening must either agree or are evil. Trump supporters know the different sides of the issues and we make our minds up based on logic and reality.
Liberals have no idea what the conservative arguments are
that is exactly why the call people racist, so you don't have to listen to their ideas, clearly their ideas will be wrong, since they are racist...
Well, you have to be fair, we have our own share of idiots who do that too COUGH, Q.
For me the more compelling point is that Trump supporters are the ones who know and share the stories that the MSM is deliberately hiding. That says a lot more than some stupid faggot who just repeats what Don Lemon tells them. It takes effort to be a Trump supporter.
It's cuz they think everyone agrees with them.
Where I’m from calling someone a racist is fighting words.
Let's bring back gun dueling. When you insulted someone's mother back in the day, you had to duel.
I’m gonna need to start carrying around a revolver, cowboy hat, and gun belt. Maybe a poncho and hand rolled cigarette too - go for the Man With No Name look.
Punch anyone using the r-word.
This is like a re-boot of Calvinism and "original sin". These mother fuckers can stand in moral judgement of exactly nobody.
If the amount of white people that they accused of being racist were really racist, there would be no black people, because they would have killed them all. Look at the indians. That was racist.
It wasn't racist; it was a conquering nation, much of it in self defense. Had the natives been white, the same would have happened.
I don’t condone with what the early settlers did and there was undeniably a lot of mistreatment even after the dust had settled, but I’ve come around to the opinion of it being a conquest as well. Again and I can’t stress enough how it being a conquest somehow presents an excuse for something like the Trail of Tears, but it does greatly water down the claims that white settlers captured Native American land purely out of malice and hate towards them. It wasn’t that - it was greed and want. The same greed and want that caused the Romans to conquer many Gallic tribes, the same greed and want that caused Alexander to expand the Greek Empire, the same greed and want that has caused all nations to grow. Race might have been a convenient dividing line to justify it and to provide people with an “us vs. them” mentality, but it’s far from the motivation.
I mean, they had two options.
Live on a tiny sliver of land and let a bunch of literal fucking stone-age cavemen squat on the rest of it forever.
Say "use it or lose it, Tonto" and fucking use that land for something more productive.
Again... not saying I don’t understand it. But that doesn’t also preclude me from being empathetic. It’s the nature of humans to want and build, it’s the nature of nations to seek growth. I get that. But I can also still recognize events or acts that happened throughout history and call them out for being what they are. I can feel sympathy for the slaves of the Roman Republic and Empire that were used to fuel infrastructure and expansion while also still recognizing the greatness and importance of the nation that much of the modern Western world is built on. Do I think the Italian government should send Germany reparations for harm done to the descendants of the original Gallic tribes? No - that’s absolutely stupid. Do I think that the leaders of Rome should propose knocking down the Coliseum or the Pantheon because it was built off of slave labor? Again, a terrible and stupid idea. But it’s just as stupid to also ignore that the nation utilized slaves to do this.
History is history. You can’t cherry pick the things you like and ignore the things you don’t like - you’re no better than these BLM and Antifa rioters if you do that. The United States unquestionably did some very poor things to Native Americans, whether you believe justified or not, it happened and should be acknowledged.
There are a few comments being said against this but I’m not entirely sure what the premises of these arguments are. We can disagree all we want, it sincerely doesn’t bother me and I’m for open discussion on this, I’m just not understanding what the counterpoints are.
From what you wrote, it sounds like you’re arguing acts were justified, because if those acts hadn’t occurred then we’d have witnessed more inter-fighting between themselves and an overall larger loss of life, right? Your stance is saying there’s justification in the force deployed because it actually lowered death counts than if tribes were left to their own devices?
How would that be any different an argument posed by an entity like the UN saying that they should have total control and say across all societies and nations and that they’ll take that control by militaristic force if necessary because, in the end, a single governing body will prevent nations from going to war with one another and will prevent skirmishes between different groups, thus lowering total world wide deaths than had they allowed different nations to exist with their own interpretations on how their society should be structured?
I’m good, thanks though I guess? I’m not quite sure what your point is.
Are you arguing someone isn’t allowed to point out how some events in the past were shitty for a party involved unless they’re also willing to personally attempt to rectify it? Because, I mean, I don’t know own any property in Southern Germany to give to some Gallic tribe and I’m afraid I also don’t know any surviving Gauls from 55 BC to hand this hypothetical property to... (Not to mention I’m also not a soldier from one of Caesar’s legions that conquered that land.) Should I just not be allowed to say “Man, that must’ve been shitty that the Gauls were enslaved by the Romans”?
I get your point and to an extent agree, but they hated Indians for being savages so there was a personal hate there. Justified or not, I’m not here to judge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_massacres
Hey man, you have got to not get angry to their face. I just gives them an excuse to hate you and believe that all pedes are evil. Control it. Laugh at them. Ridicule is the best weapon. Channel that inner anger and do something to defeat the liberals at the ballot box.
Laugh at them is right. Remember the old grade school taunt "If I am one, so are you!" Childish, but not incorrect.
Thanks for the awakening story. Hopefully more will be motivated to speak out. The election is soon upon us and we need to talk to everyone we know as factually and courteously possible to get the message out. The ones who back you into a corner sometimes possibly need a little tongue lashing due to their immaturity. At least until you can get their attention. Be smart...I think Rush used to say he could whup 'em with half his brain tied behind his back. I find that true the majority of the time. Keep talking. There are a lot of liberals still needing a red pilling. MAGA & KAG TRUMP 2020 and Beyond.
Rush isn't worried about some a-hile calling his boss and getting him fired.
Ask him "What is your defense when the mob comes after you?"
You don't debate these clowns, give them an inch and they take it a mile. Good on you for standing your ground and fuck that guy. They can miss me with that "systemic, inherently, privileged" bullshit.
S - systemic
I - inherently
M <- - - - need to find a cuck word
P - Privileged
Mal-informed, Manlet, Mega-Cuck, Malicious, Mundane
take your pick
Masochistic
I thought my fucks ran out in 2016, but 2020 has unearthed a new strata of fucks to not give. Now I want to hang a noose in my own yard just to see if something funny happens.
Everone needs to do this. Let the left know how many of us there actually are.
Some might ignore this but the Bible says not to waste your time on people who reject wisdom and avoid arguing with them. Unless someone is interested in learning there isn't much point debating.
I realized this is what conservatives do, once I became one myself, but I also see that this is a problem, they took over the narrative and if they fuck up the laws enough it doesn't matter if you can take care of your own business, they want to control you and be in your business
we are at a point that staying silent might mean you will no longer be able to be conservative
You weren't agreeing with what he said so he went for the emotional argument.
If somebody said that to me, I would've cut them off. I actually did. My brother of all people. I'm done. Not speaking to him until he grovels.
The moral superiority of the left is almost more appalling than the hypocrisy. Sorry you went through it. We all have. It’s the personal anger directed at me by people who know what kind of person I am, that I can’t stand. The hate is real. Welcome to identity politics.
speak up, all those people nodding? they are nodding out of ignorance
call them out on obvious fakes and you will see them cower and not bring up their lies
I have a "friend" he has never brought up Trump in front of me, I know for a fact that he tried convincing people that Trump said you should drink bleach, by the people he tried to convince. I told them you know that is not true, right? And the person - even though not on board with Trump - admitted that he saw the video himself and that is not what was said. So then I moved further: "you know they do this all the time" and brought up more examples
Trump-hater came to my house again - I have helped this guy out - more than people he considers friends - direct tutoring on stuff, no mention. These people aren't in command of the facts, they just have a reaction based on media training and they know when to bring these stuff up - for them Trump is a good scapegoat "the world is crazy, lol, Trump am I right"
Same with my father, I have proven to him that everything he says about Trump is simply not true, he still claims he will never come around and called me a racist...he has still to respond to me asking him to show me 1 - ONE - example of racism
I had that happen to me about 18 months ago. Finally throwing off the shroud and hiding.
Feels good doesn't it?
I’ll fucking do it again
Once I find out somebody is a leftist I cut all ties. They are a huge liability and are incurable. While hiring I've begun doing ideology background checks using their social media. Don't hire leftists for anything. I've also started openly telling people their college education is worthless since they were indoctrinated they are now useless. I advise the younger generation to go into the military or a trade and skip college until they clean up their act.
I had the same thing happen. Guy was literally frothing at the mouth about trump.
I’m like bruh the stuff you are talking about?? These issues you are railing about proceed him by over half a century... How can you with a straight face and half a brain put these issues square on him? He’s been in politics like 4 years...
Guy sits there looking like a fucking moron for a minute. “Dude your a racist.”
I got so fucking mad. I kept saying I don’t want to talk about politics. I have my beliefs can you just leave it alone...
So infuriating.
It's intentional. They want to have population control. Gates also supplied live polio vaccines to 3rd world countries and caused out breaks of polio in the process (they may still be supplying them).
(sorry it's NPR, but no politics in the story). https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/780068006/how-the-oral-polio-vaccine-can-cause-polio
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=da3_1459000403
If he's calling people 'racist' because of the color of your skin - um - that's definitively racist. Tell him to get a clue - stop watching so much fucking TV - and get it together.
Fuck'n A. GOOD JOB!
If he called you a racist, he's not your friend.
Aye, here’s to not giving a fuck
Trying to find common ground with a commie is like trying to find common ground with an Islamist.
The Islamist is not interested in finding a common ground with you.
He wants to brow beat you to the point of exhaustion and then gives you the option of death or dhimmitude.
This is literally the same process that the Commie does.
Your options are death or grovelling, where you apologise forever.
Stop trying to find common ground with people that want you dead or enslaved.
It's time for the silent majority to speak up.
But here's the crucial question.
Do you have any Frog Morton left?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Dude, I have been meaning to try that. I need my Pepe tobacco.
I have been on this English blend that pairs really well with whiskey as well as porters / stouts.
For a good series of reviews of tobaccos it sounds you would like, please check out "Stuff and Things". He has similar tastes to us.
He's a weirdo.
But then again, so am I.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyzAMeGkT4N82NXOXN584aw
You're too late. It's long gone.
I have a few tins of Squadron Leader I will sell you for a quadrillion dollars.
:)
These people are under some kind of mind control.
Leftists need to be mocked and ridiculed. Like - "that is the most single stupid thing I've heard, just because you are a racist doesn't mean we all are. You really need to get your shit together and stop being racist. And your fascist, white supremacy attitude is disgusting. Try judging people on their character instead of being a racist and seeing nothing but skin color. It will make you a better person."
There is a reason that he called you a racist straight out like that is good old classic denial.
If you tell someone that the sky is blue they don't blow up and call you a racist and evil, they are like cool yep blue sky. However if they have been telling everyone for years the sky is purple and you come out and say, nope it's blue, then you break their denial and they get defensive. Denial is hard to break, but any adverse reaction means you have at least broken through a tiny bit.
I don’t associate with leftists in the first place.
Anyone who "hates GEOTUS" and is a "very vocal Liberal" is trouble from the get-go. Huge time waste,made you very angry and ended up hijacking yr mind by having you STEWING over it for hours/days. Next time...sidestep these types/
If you can muster the patience for it, the socratic method is a really great way to completely fluster them, potentially red pill them but also, and most importantly, to avoid getting yourself too worked up over their emotional arguements.
That’s the spirit! You can’t be blamed for your skin color or what people did a hundred years ago. Sure as shit can be held accountable for spouting retardation though. Glad you stepped up to this dense mf.
There has to start being some real, actual consequences to doxxing and cancelling. They need to fully understand that their lives are at stake as well.
Sooner or later, that's coming.
I feel you man, I'm in a similar situation almost daily with family and friends. It's frustrating but I won't stop telling them the truth amongst the lies they hear.
i just want to offer that is IS POSSIBLE for your friend to go full circle and come back around, and anyone else that would appear to be a lost cause
politics can get really emotional for people and they totally lose their core selves when too attached to ideology but then reality can come back and change everything, it can be a delicate and temporary phase they go through because their self identity is so closely linked with societal norms/mass media/status quo they never had any individuality or self-determination to begin with
some of the most hardcore right-wingers are previously leftwing, either raised leftwing or indoctrinated, making their understanding of the difference more profound & with greater conviction
most probably not.. but it does & can happen, the potential is always there (and vice versa but thats very rare)
You struck a chord, friend. No pun intended, being that you are a musician. Thanks for sharing!
YAY MY FREEDOM FREN
good lad , im a guitarist and play clubs weddings etc and we have been locked down here in UK since the start.....i'm beyond fucking raging with this bullshit and so angry about all our venues and clubs being bankrupted by this shit.....people i have known for decades are giving me the passive aggressive lib moral posturing and i take great delight in setting them straight , and if the shit really hits the fan i will NOT be helping them
I have a buddy who is marrying a commie. He’s a smart dude, but kind of a group thinker. So she tends to fill his head with nonsense. Every now and again we’ll talk and he’ll bring up XYZ lefty talking point. I’ll refute and he’ll get this, “gah, that makes sense.” Look and say so.
Hell yeah buddy👌🏻
So true, people who hate our President think everyone feels the same. It’s the echo chamber. They all get on Facebook and jerk each other off about how smart they are for hating him. I too don’t debate. If they start talking about him, I just say that I love him and will vote for him again. Their stunned faces give me great pleasure. Refuse to debate, just a smug smile while they go off getting all emotional. Then I top it off and say “let’s bet on who will win the election”. Most of them won’t bet.
If they call me racist, I call them racist. Funny watching them be the one to be accused of that and getting a taste of their own medicine. Either way the term is virtually meaningless, because virtually no one really uses that word for its true definition.