I, unfortunately, have decided that I’m going to have to leave my church due to their unrelenting BLM support and (of course) racism towards anyone who isn’t openly supporting it. When I joined this church in 2012 it was great, it was extremely spiritual and wasn’t extremist in any sort of way. They were very open and accepting of all beliefs, and I never felt ashamed to be there.
Now the entire church is only discussing how white people need to pray on our inherent evil towards minorities. One of our ministers is a black woman who was very accepting until BLM first came into existence. After that she set up a church protest to go protest the execution of a black man who had raped and murdered a woman and her child. I was NOT down with participating with that, and really considered leaving after that incident but ultimately decided to stay. From there she and another minister made it known she was not a Trump fan and now all of the leaders there are calling all white people racist. They also just recently said even other races were racist if they didn’t support BLM.
It wasnt super obvious until these past few months, but from then on things kept becoming more extremist and unaccepting. This is not a place where people can celebrate differences in thought or beliefs.
Have any of you guys had to leave a church or a community due to the rising racism of BLM / all the other shit going on? I honestly never thought I’d be hard pressed into leaving, but I don’t feel peace or love there anymore. I don’t even know how to go about finding another place to worship because I’m sure my church isn’t the only place where this is happening.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 - For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Gotta go either Greek Orthodox Roman Catholic
Seconded, but...
As a member of the Tiber Swim Club (that is, a Catholic pede), I can say that there is a bit of an infestation of liberals among us (and I bet the Orthodox folks get some of that as well.)
However! Mass is Mass is Mass, and only the Homily portion of it (usually 10 minutes long, tops) provides any wiggle room for a priest to say anything outside of the norm, and 99% of 'em aren't stupid enough to piss off the laity by using it as a podium to preach leftist ideology from.
Mega fortunate that our local parish priest is not only a traditionalist, but very based in his secular ideology as well. Dude redpills every Sunday, without fail.
For anyone considering Orthodoxy: please watch Jonathan Pageau's videos. GREAT stuff. He perfectly illustrates everything missing from Protestantism and Catholicism.
Do you have a link to the specific video youre referring to? I'm looking through his channel but there's so much to choose from
You have to watch it all, most likely, to understand it as deeply as you will want.
I started with the zombie video.
Perhaps these would be along what I suggested:
Probably the most important - How Science is Nested in Religion: https://youtu.be/1w7TQ1KqaBY
The Lord's Prayer contains all of creation: https://youtu.be/pEvMa4b4BLQ
The Entire Cosmos in the Parable of the Sower: https://youtu.be/wIkGYXdSFNM
Regarding Icons: https://youtu.be/CD3E7ZjgxqQ
One of my favorites: 666 https://youtu.be/qM_kQjpAK6g
Another favorite: Kanye West https://youtu.be/dJbUDAf8COs
The inevitability of ritual: https://youtu.be/l-8r0PpdEnM
If you like it, watch the videos with his brother Matthieu, and get Matthieu's book.
Thank you
Any particular video to start with? Looks like he covers lots of subjects...
You have to watch it all, most likely, to understand it as deeply as you will want.
I started with the zombie video.
Perhaps these would be along what I suggested:
Probably the most important - How Science is Nested in Religion: https://youtu.be/1w7TQ1KqaBY
The Lord's Prayer contains all of creation: https://youtu.be/pEvMa4b4BLQ
The Entire Cosmos in the Parable of the Sower: https://youtu.be/wIkGYXdSFNM
Regarding Icons: https://youtu.be/CD3E7ZjgxqQ
One of my favorites: 666 https://youtu.be/qM_kQjpAK6g
Another favorite: Kanye West https://youtu.be/dJbUDAf8COs
The inevitability of ritual: https://youtu.be/l-8r0PpdEnM
If you like it, watch the videos with his brother Matthieu, and get Matthieu's book.
Is he O.P. by chance?
I'll have to ask... I do know he's one of the few non-Jesuits in our archdiocese.
Praise the lord for that at least
Not sure how you could put it in a simple note... assuming you have at least one more council meeting before you go, I'd pipe up then to point out what's going on, point out what's at stake, and then implore them to get out and redpill as much as they can (probably not in those specific terms...)
Vivat Iesus,
No worries, brother; I wish you luck in either event.
Catholics should avoid the novus ordo mass
Unfortunately, it's the most common one.
I'd like to learn to pray on Latin too. Demons hate it.
Have you heard of Fr. Ripperger? He has talks on YT that support traditionalism and other great topics.
Latvian Orthodox is the only way to avoid the Kavorka.
The lure of the animal...
Did you say fodder?
For anyone considering Orthodoxy: please watch Jonathan Pageau's videos. GREAT stuff. He perfectly illustrates everything misding from Protestantism and Catholicism.
Unfortunately, the Devil currently sits in the Vatican. I've been told Greek Orthodox is better, but I have my doubts about them as well.
avoid orthodoxy
For anyone considering Orthodoxy: please watch Jonathan Pageau's videos. GREAT stuff. He perfectly illustrates everything misding from Protestantism and Catholicism.
i dont see how after all weve uncovered these past 4 years anyone could support the catholic church.
A jewish person criticizes the catholic church? Who ever could imagine such a thing?
which jewish person?
Did you misspell "we've", or "Weev"? I assumed the latter.
(yes, its a misspell of 'we have'). which jewish person?
Roman Catholic is cucked and corrupt. Have you seen the pope?
Now let's talk about the current Pope....................
False pope is a dope!! chants
Seriously though fucking satan worshipper, while the real pope was dethroned for his globalist ass
Commie Pope?
You know. I’ve been an atheist for some time now after being a Christian. More and more I’m seeing how just maybe there is more truth to Christianity than I believed. It seems all over there IS a war against Christianity. What I was told for years, the devil will infiltrate the church. Shit. Gets you thinking.
Not only that but a whole lot more of what the Bible told you is coming.
Can confirm. Most of the churches in my area of all denominations have been subverted by the Left. Visiting their websites or social media pages is like viewing a leftist blog. Trump supporters are not welcome.
I will keep you in my prayers, Sister.
Edit: I assumed the gender of buttfuckmebigfoot, please punish me by canceling my existence. I should never have done that! /s
I’m a girl but thank you! Keeping me in your prayers means a lot
Oh no! I just
ASSUMED YOUR GENDER
Time to pay respects to our leftist overlords lmao
But yes, lifting you up in prayer right now.
Hey, no judging! /s
Nah it was just my handle on voat, I thought I’d carry it over
Just go to bing, turn safe search off, and type it in haha
Sorry I’ve been responding to all the posts here, I’ll dm you back in a bit
Ha ha! Oh man. That's great. I hope you find the bigfoot of your dreams.
That's 14 kinds of awesome. You rock.
Thanks ‘pede, you do too! 💙
I'm agnostic but just by reading this, there's no doubt that the church is actively engaged in indoctrination. Using god and religion to hold people captive while they drill political ideology into their heads. I could see them talking about the strife going on in the world and putting it in context with the bible, good v. evil and discussing how to live in a world with so many moral and ethical dilemmas. But I don't think that's going on.
Yeah the Universalists are lost.
They need Jesus.
THAT church... not THE church
I fellowship with a group that is without a doubt based, but we dont talk about that we talk the gospel all day every day.
Gal 3:28
REEEEEEEEEEEEE LMAO
Dude, imagine actually thinking that way. Hilarious! We can't wait for November 3.
Truth. You can read it in Scripture.
Prolly not as far as satanic, but definitely not the real deal.
Sorry ladies, but preaching was, is, and always will be, a father-figure job.
Junia (who Paul considered an Apostle), Priscilla, Mary, Phoebe,Tryphena, Julia and others would certainly be quite surprised to hear that.
Lutheran Pastor, biblical language expert, and (hopefully) soon to be Doctor of the Church here.
There’s a difference between the office of public ministry and auxiliary supporting roles. Each of the women you’ve mentioned were not a part of the Office of Public ministry.
To be a pastor (often called “elder” in the original languages) there are tons of criteria listed all throughout scripture, notably in the Pauline epistles. Most men do not qualify, but certainly no women do.
This has nothing to do with capacity or ability. It’s not like a woman would be “worse” at the job, it’s just purely not applicable.
The reason for this has to do with God’s created order and the true expectations of men and women. The super short version is that men are to lead by word and action, to deliberately seek those who need help and provide it, and to manage their households well. Women are to absorb God’s instructions to such a degree that they spread them by their very presence in every aspect of their life, whether at home or in public.
Men and women are both intended to serve the Church with these callings. The office of public ministry is more than this though, it’s a special office established by God to serve the Church and to fill this one must meet the qualifications, one of which is to be a faithful man. Women can and should serve in the church. Deaconesses are a thing. They just aren’t pastors.
The unique job of the pastor is to publicly teach the Word, administer the sacraments, and manage the church’s practice.
You’ll note that Pastors do WAY more than this. That’s fine, but one doesn’t have to be a pastor to do the other things. Anyone can. And even all should tbh.
I’ll be around if anyone has any questions on this.
Do you happen to have some verses that reference these things on hand? I'd like to look into this more on my own.
I do! It's important to maintain the noteworthiness of Public Ministry while still keeping it in its role to serve God's people.
Regarding the idea that public service is different than the priesthood of all believers that every Christian is baptized, I will cite Ephesians 4:11-12 (though that whole section is great).
Regarding the specific qualifications of a pastor please see 1 Timothy 3:1-7 (there's another smaller reference in Titus 1:5-6).
As for the creation of man and woman the best place to check it out is certainly Genesis 2. God takes special care in forming Adam and Eve and they both have different but complementary callings before the fall into sin with Adam leading and Eve helping.
Note that her helping is not in any way less important. In fact the first problem in the world is that Adam was incomplete without her. This has profound impact on tons of teachings from marriage to ordination, and even to Christ as Head of the Church.
Anyway, back to Ephesians for God's expectations for men and women. Ephesians 5:22-33 is an incredible passage. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, and gave himself up for her. In other words, there is nothing a husband is to hold back from their wife, no selfishness, no pride. There can be no more love in them that could possibly go to a side-chick because their love is for God first and wife second.
This extends to general conduct for men and women as well as seen in how it gets expressed in 1 Timothy 2. Like all of it.
If you need or want more, just let me know!
Thanks for putting this together! I've heard different opinions on the matter, but many people on both sides tend to get a little heated when talking about certain subjects like this. It can be a bit off-putting when you just want to become more informed. I appreciate your welcoming and positive approach to an often touchy subject. I'll probably have plenty to go through with studying these books for now, but I'll let you know if I'm looking for some more verses! Thanks again!
Happy to help! I minister to a lot of college students so their questions keep me sharp.
Also something I keep in mind from the late Ravi Zacharias is to always respect the seeker.
I wouldn’t want to be snide or flippant to someone who is searching for truth. Instead I try to encourage. Not always successfully, mind you, but I try nonetheless.
Gender in the church (https://youtu.be/7FFGyythc38)
There are no "offices" in the Church. That is a tradition of man.
Sorry friend, whoever taught you that was mistaken.
“The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.” 1 Timothy 3:1 ESV
You do realize that the English bible is translated from Greek? You can either get a literal translation of the Holy Bible such as Young's, or you can get a Strongs Greek/Hebrew concordance.
"office" as is being used in prior comments is nowhere found. Roles in the Church as stated by the New Testament are titles of function, not titles in and of themselves.
You will frequently see people refered to as a "deacon" but the word is a transliteration of "daikonos" which is the greek word for servant.
YLT * Stedfast is the word: If any one the oversight doth long for, a right work he desireth.*
The ESV and many other translations translate "episkope" to "office of overseer".
Even without being a Greek scholar you can look up G1984 (the strong's reference for this greek word) and cross-reference it against every place its used in the New Testament to understand its context.
I have no reason to lie to you or mislead you. I am not a theologian but I have spent 30+ years studying this topic. I grew up in legalism and religion.
The Church is one. It is the body of believers and an overseer is simply someone who wishes to provide oversight to the body of believers.
I do! Both my Master's Degree (M. Div) and PhD of Theology involved using the original languages and working with the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.
Your background lets me get a bit more theological.
There is a distinction between the priesthood of all believers (referenced most obviously in 1 Peter 2:5 (ἱεράτευμα)) and the more specific office of public ministry which is spoken about using a variety of terms (overseers, ministers, pastors, teachers, deacons, elders).
You can see the distinction very apparently in Ephesians 4:11-12 as it describes those who are in the office of public ministry as an office instituted by God for the sake of equipping the saints (καταρτισμὸν τῶν ἁγίων).
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ"
Other references to the functions and distinctions of the office may be found here:
John 20:21-23 "Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
Acts 20:28 "Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood."
1 Corinthians 4:1 "This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God."
1 Cor 12:29 "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?"
Edit: Also it is MOST certainly true that we are one in Christ. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:25-28).
But that's not saying that sex distinctions go away. That's talking about salvation. Note the context in verses 23-26. We are free in Christ from the Law, it does not condemn us as insiders or outsiders, or in any way. We are forgiven! This doesn't mean that we are less than we were before, but more!
Apocrypha and heretical deviances do not count, yo.
That's not Apocrypha - it's literally in Paul's epistles in the New Testament. Yo.
And yet you couldn't refer to them by chapter and verse?
You have access to concordances and Biblegateway, etc same as anyone else, why do you require me to do your homework? Here's a starter for you, "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was." - Romans 16:7.
"The translation of the verse presents two problems:
These two questions are still under scholarly debate. "
...and that's just "Junias".
Just because they hold a place of reverence, does NOT make them preachers.
Do you have any sources about any of them?
Which of them taught men?
Funny I never saw an ordination process in the Bible.
The Apostle Paul in Acts 2:18 begs to differ, whether you believe it or not.
Find a church that teaches the truth even when unpopular about anything. If you can be courageous in some things it makes you more likely to be courageous in others.
I haven't been to church since the last wedding I went to I cant find one that isnt sucking on the globalist teet.
I have found a walking preacher that's speaks straight from the bible he was cool for years we hung out, guy was full of brimstone and fury
Did you find a new, more supportive church after that?
It's amazing how the conservative doctrine has become so simply defined that it can be summed up as,
"Leave me alone. Let me keep the money I earn. I am allowed to think and say what I please. I believe in a border. I believe in the Law. I believe in equality under the law."
Not a good church at all, good move on walking away.
BLM is a cult movement, it is insidious as it pretends to be doing good. However, people only need to look at what it does then it is clearly evil; divisive, violent and racist. BLM is about power over others and making them submit, as an Ex-Muslim I have seen all this before and when we were on Reddit predicted the terrorism we are now seeing.
As a brown guy, here is honestly what I see: Whites in the west really were past racism and racial identity, it is why so many western countries opened their borders. However, now the likes of BLM are pushing everyone to be hyper aware of race and they are making white people out to be evil. Based on what? Based on stuff long dead people did hundreds of years ago, stuff that other races including blacks and Arabs have also done.
BLM is pure evil, I like the west, I like white people and the shit BLM are pulling is going to hurt so many whites as well as non-whites.
I completely agree with your analysis. I’ve always lived in Atlanta and I truly never understood why or how someone could be racist towards black people or anyone else for that matter until I was in HS (2008). All of my friends and classmates were all unique in personality but we were all the same on a human level. I wish our society could go back to that time when we all judged each other on how they acted as a human.
Well said, totally agree. We are all humans and should be judged on our own actions, it took a lot of work for us to get to that and BLM is undoing it all.
Smart man here
There are a lot of problems with Catholicism, but this at least is one problem we don't have.
I doubt they'd let a female "priest" anywhere near a sacristy, let alone an altar, no matter how hard Bergoglio wishes it to happen.
Ah, but that's the best thing about being a trad/cath, that we ignore post Vatican 2 doctrinal changes. And we get to call everyone else heretics. Beroglio literally is one, which makes it easier.
Your Pope is a heretic, how does that work with the whole Vicor of Christ thing?
Because the Church is not a man, or even an institution. It's Christ, and those who believe in him. The Church has survived degenerate Popes before, and it will survive this.
You'll have to reject Vatican 2 to reject the pope.
Several comments above, I already said that I do.
"Where is Rome, There is the Church."
"All paths lead to Rome."
St. Augustine of Hippo.
I can't resist the joke. Rome is where the heart is.
Hahahaha! I'm not a fan of Francis but I can't walk away from the Vatican because there's way too much I love about Catholicism.
Rome Sweet Home - I’m Tiber Swim Club, 2015
The answer is simple: In church hierarchy, the Pope is simply this: Just Another Bishop. He does happen to be the bishop in charge (someone's gotta do it), but still, just a bishop, who happens to be the Bishop of Rome.
If you read and watch him carefully, you'll notice that he skirts the edges of heresy in his secular pronouncements, but does not even think of touching it in his spiritual ones (at least that I've seen.) He has edged a bit towards it by calling a few synods, but he (fortunately!) doesn't have the testicular fortitude to put his socialist bullshit into anything approaching a catechesis.
Now, that said, a lot of us (myself included) find he is pretty unworthy of the job (and not just because of his being Jesuit, though that's bad enough). But, as sibling has said as well - we'll survive it. The nasty, ugly, brutish, and (most important of all) slow-moving bureaucracy that is the Holy See almost guarantees that.
As a non-Catholic, I can't disagree with anything you said here. Well done.
SSPX, or just normal Trad?
I wasn't aware the Society had chapters outside of Africa and Western Europe.
I've heard of a few informal US groups of folks, though nothing formal.
I'm a bit isolated out here in the Portland Archdiocese though (...and surrounded by Jesuits).
The first red flag was "open and accepting of all beliefs". That isn't what a church is supposed to be. A church is about spreading the gospel of Jesus and for fellowship of like minded Christians. Shouldn't surprise you that a church that is open to all beliefs would fall so easily for BLM. A good church has certain rules that if not followed will result in loss of membership. Such as, living in an adulterous relationship and not repenting. Jesus said go and sin no more. He didn't say that your sin is okay because you were born that way.
I was gonna say the same thing... "what kind of church accepts all beliefs?" Down lower in this thread I see OP says it's Unitarian. So, hunch status = confirmed on that one.
Welcome to the church of social justice. A foundation of sand.
Hey we have a Pastor here on TD. Send him a message. See this post from him: https://thedonald.win/p/FzKblL7N/pastor-pede-here/
Thank you so much for this link
Hey thanks! Glad to help! I'm going to post more stuff like this when I get a chance.
Doesn't sound like a Christian church to me
The gates to hell are wide.
Curious. What type of church? Methodist?
It’s Unitarian, which I know a lot of people are going to think I’m dumb for thinking they wouldn’t turn out crazy and leftist. But when I first went there they taught me how to meditate while at bible study and it really drew me in. Now I don’t even know what denomination I should be looking into, I just feel really spiritually vulnerable.
This is usually the case. That doesn't mean that every church that currently ordains women is in full-flung apostasy, but it does mean they're on the road that leads there.
When it comes to faithfully upholding the word of God, pressure for the ordination of women is usually the first chink in the armor, and the history of dozens of American denominations has taught us this. From there they just "make exceptions" for more and more of the Bible until ultimately they believe in Darwinism, they don't believe that Jesus is God, and that's if they even believe that God exists. There have even been ministers in the PCUSA I think that came straight out and said "I don't really even believe in God" and they didn't discipline him (or her) out of the denomination.
Go Lutheran.
I have a super lefty friend who used to go to a Unitarian Universalist church. She was a guest speaker during a service one time and invited me to go so I did. While it felt like a welcoming place, I couldn’t get over how they never once mentioned God or the Bible. I guess it’s just a spiritual church not based in any one religion? I didn’t realize that at the time though and was really confused. I hope you find a church that feels more like home to you ❤️
UU is more focused on society and the immanence of God. It does not see him as a Sovereign, transcendent but personal creator.
Try looking outside man made denominations: look into the church of Christ - find a congregation that speaks where the Bible speaks and is silent where the Bible is silent.
That’s a really nice sentiment, thank you this is great advice
If I could, without being offensive offer a suggestion. I think a lot of people are going to church looking for a spiritual experience, a felling that you might get. The problem with that is that you may not ever find that feeling. Church isn't about that. It's about coming together to worship our Lord. That is it. We aren't there trying to get a feeling in our gut or a vision or anything. It's about Christians in fellowship having faith in the salvation that is ours in Christ. Unitarian is not Christian.
I definitely understand your point, but I also have never gravitated towards churches that preach how you must live your life in fear of god and threats of going to hell. I know that is an aspect (a significant portion) that teaches that, but I would like to find a congregation that hammers more the love you find with Jesus and salvation. If that makes any sense. Thank you for your input though, your point came across really well
I didn't know how to say it without sounding judgmental. You don't want all hell fire and brimstone but you do need some of that. Jesus taught more about Hell than he did about Heaven. But he taught us to love our neighbors. The assurance of salvation is so much sweeter when you understand how serious Hell is and exactly what you have been saved from.
Then you may want to stay away from Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches.
Heaven and hell are realities; warnings have to be made but people generally don't accept the gospel out of fear. What that leads to is a minimal devotion to Christ becuase it basically is just about gettting your ticket punched and staying out of hell.
But the grace of Jesus Christ has so much to offer you here and now, on earth as it currently stands, while we wait for the coming of his kingdom. We love Jesus Christ because he loved us first; because as our redeemer and king he is worthy of all glory, praise, and honor.
I found out about the Unitarians a few months back. I don't want to discourage you nor insult you, but that is a Satanic "church."
I was just baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church back in January after being atheist/agnostic my whole life. I am one of the few Adventist astrophysicists :) not to dox myself or anything.
Find a church that is Christ-centered and you will be just fine. If you want a great Bible study, go to truthlink.org. You have to "sign up" but only so it keeps your progress as you go through 27 different lessons.
I will keep you in my prayers.
Thank you so much for your insight, also that’s very cool that you’re an astrophysicist while also being religious!
Do you know if we have any .win subs that are for bible study yet? I don’t think we do but I’ll check out that website
It would be absolutely beautiful if we had
CHRIST.WIN
But, yeah, I don't think we have anything yet.
Oops. Hey are you familiar with Jason Lisle? I ask b/c of your handle
I am not, but I just looked him up. Thanks!
Friend, I'm sorry to say but you've jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Just make sure you do everything Ellen White said or you'll burn.
Respectfully, Lol, Ellen White is not Jesus. Her writings help to clarify things for me sometimes, but I (nor any truthful Adventist) do not take her words as anything other than the writings of a flawed human being who was close to Jesus.
I am a follower of Christ alone.
Well, I'm sorry to let you know and I really am not trying to be offensive but, the Seventh Day Adventists find her more authoritative than the Bible.Please research. I used to have bible study with Seventh Day Adventists until I started understanding what they believe. If you truly believe in Christ Alone then Adventism isn't for you.
I understand you feel that way. I have not encountered this form of Adventism and I have been attending church for two years now.
I do not want to give myself credit for anything, but as an astrophysicist I am intelligent enough to recognize when or if I am being bamboozled. That is simply not the case with my local church.
Perhaps there are other churches that are not following Jesus in the way that they should. I cannot speak for those because I do not attend those places. But my experience has been nothing but awesome interactions with people who love Jesus.
I am sorry that your experience with Adventism has not been great. Mine has been different.
Please search YouTube for the biblical Christianity YouTube channel and their videos on Adventist.its from former Adventist’s and it was very eye opening for me. And Chris Pintos Tate’s among the wheat is another great documentary. Adventism came from the millerites.
My wife grew up SDA.
Nice! Mine did as well, and left church for a while because of some bad experiences with some people. We both attend now and I have had a wonderful time getting to love Jesus.
I feel for you! I recently had to leave my church when they decided to have a Sunday school service where they proceeded to have the white kids apologize for the color of their skin. I'm not having it, and my kids will never apologize for being white.
I’m much less tolerant than you. I left a church for trying to have me pray for Obamacare. Finding the right church is essential to your spiritual health. I have probably been to hundreds of services just once in search of the right home. Once you find it though it’s the best thing in your life. Keep searching pede.
I am a conservative Lutheran pastor.
Any time God’s people value the culture of the world more than the unique Christian culture that we are baptized into, there’s gonna be problems.
The problems start small. Let’s reword part of this prayer. Let’s tweak part of this language. Before you know it suddenly you get a watered down inoffensive Gospel.
It’s a shame. The truth is that the word of God kills. It kills sinners and raises saints through the death and resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.
That makes a believer different than they were before. Thus they start to live the faith they’ve been given.
For more reading on this check out the Indigenizing principle vs the Pilgrim principle.
The short version is that there’s always a tension because we are a part of our born-into culture (indigenizing) but called into a new one which makes us an outsider even in our former culture (pilgrim).
I’ll also answer questions if there are any.
Good to see another pastor on this board. LCMS?
Yes! Baptized as a teenager and then confirmed in a fantastic LCMS church. You?
LCMS - Do you know who Rev. Jeffrey Hemmer is? I've listened to some of his lectures and I like him a lot.
Yes actually! He spoke at a retreat that I volunteered at not too long ago. Great guy! Very serious about men leading their families in a godly way. Also your life sounds a lot like mine. It makes you really appreciate Jesus doesn't it?
Oh praise the lord. Jesus is a wonderful savior and friend.
Also listened to some of Jordan Cooper's stuff, he's solid it seems like
Baptized methodist as a child, grew up totally pagan, got arrested a whole bunch, got involved in the 12 steps and was converted in my early 30s. I'm in the pca but have lots of love for the LCMS.
Print out the BLM list of demands. Schedule a meeting with your pastor. Ask her how the Bible reconciles with each of their demands (e.g., destroying the nuclear family). Don't let her switch subjects. If she relies on anything other than scripture to convince you, it's time to walk. Her opinion is trumping what should be the sole authority in her life.
We should welcome everyone where they are at but it's a sin to stay where you're at and to allow your brothers and sisters in Christ to do the same.
Remove the plank so that you can help remove the speck. Go and make disciples.
You're right...yours isn't the only church to roll over and expunge anybody resisting the drift toward the great secular god of man. Founded on a Rock and turned to Sand...
I'm sorry that you are being judged in that way. They can't even see their own hypocrisy. Get out of that toxic environment now, and don't look back. You remember what happened to Lot's wife, don't you?
Oooh, salty!
Begin by no longer contributing to that political organization.
Unitarian?
Yup!
That’s a solid point, I’ve definitely done that before too. I’m going to take a few weeks off anyways after leaving this church at least. Thanks!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/just-thinking-podcast/id1328733796?i=1000476386919
This is a great Christian podcast & this episode, in particular, addresses how the Christian church should approach BLM.
Cool, I’ll add it to my list of podcasts episodes to listen to while running! Thanks dude
1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
No offense to women, but as the custodians of Physical Birth, they've already received their responsibility in the creation of new saints. Men are the Pastors. It's another one-coin/two-sides situation.
Why?
Because Women tend to act out of Emotion, and not out of Reason, A Pastor is to take any and EVERY situation, and go to the Scripture, and see what the Scripture says. If there is a conflict, Scripture wins. We do not stretch and snip the information to make the feelings fit. If the feelings don't fit to the framework of God's Word, then the Feelings must be trimmed into the correct shape.
Hi I'm a pastor and I hope I can give you a balanced take on this.
I would say that any time you have a church whose agenda is clearly based on something other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ then you need to leave. There are a number of churches whose expression of the Christian faith I respect, and of course I have my respectful disagreements with a lot of them as well, but that's ok because we believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't want to get too theological but even as a conservative Presbyterian I am happy to call my Catholic brothers and sisters co-laborers in the gospel for that reason; most of them anyway.
Having said that, even conservative churches right now are seeing the tenets of Critical Race Theory seep into the church. Most pastors do not understand it; even the Southern Baptist Convention last year passed Resolution 9, which essentially affirmed the validity of CRT as "analytical tools." Paul tells us that "A little leaven leavens the whole lump" (Gal. 5:9). This stuff is in my denomination too, but not in a large part.
I understand why my denomination conducted a study committee on race a few years ago and decided that we as a denomination needed to repent of identifiable sins that have happened since our establishment in the 70's. Even that recently there were churches that just straight up excluded black brothers and sisters. It was wrong then and the guys that were around then recognize that now. But those of us who have tried to throw the flag in saying that such movements as BLM are Marxist front groups were scoffed at, basically because they believe that Marx is our bogeyman... and then the Patrisse Cullors video came out the other day in which she admitted as much.
I believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God. So when Paul writes "Think of others as more important than yourselves" (Phil. 2:3) - and he is writing basically to fellow believers, as though to say, those of you in the Christian community should serve one another sacrificially, that means that I need to think of my fellow black brothers and be willing to serve them sacrificially. We can talk at length about what that means in a positive sense. But I know for certain that linking arms with Black Lives Matter does NOT serve anyone, least of all my black brothers and sisters.
Now I am not convinced that there is what most people call "systemic" injustice. I have YET to hear anyone define for me what "systemic" means. I will agree that there has been historic injustice. But I don't know what systemic means. Whatever the case, I would counsel those who want to serve their black brothers and sisters out of Gospel-oriented concern should go find a Missionary Baptist or National Baptist church in the city and talk to the deacons there and see what kind of local service organizations they are linked up to. Use discernment to make sure they're not in the tank with BLM. Or better yet, go down to your local rescue mission and serve food or just talk to some people that are looking for hope. Take time to mentor an at-risk youth. Become a tutor. I didn't want to get too political but we all know that before white libs started destroying statues they decided the destroy the black family first. The statues are just a fig leaf for their generations of failure at "helping" the black community. We can clean up statues but we can also clean up society, at least a litlte bit, by serving some kids who otherwise don't stand a chance.
I do not like the way that most "white evangelical" (I hate that term with a passion) churches are handling what they deem to be "racial reconciliation." It's basically a show to them and they essentially want to do racial reconciliation on their terms. Ministers are at the center of the black community in a phenomenal way. And for the most part they don't like riots and foolishness.
Anyway I hope this helps you. You should find a Gospel-centered, Bible-believing church. If I knew more where you lived I could suggest one since I know what to look for to tell you they're not wacky.
Black churches and ministers are a fallen shitshow. You will know them by their fruit. Well, what is the fruit of black churches? Violence, destruction, fornication, drugs, fatherlessness etc.
The ones who make the most noise are the ones that get the attention, like Al Sharpton (who I don't really consider a minister), Freddie Haynes, Talbert Swan, dudes like that. But I think most of them are more like Jasper Williams who has been working tirelessly to get black men to take responsibility for their lives. Remember the guy who preached Aretha Franklin's funeral and said "black lives will never matter until black lives start mattering to black people!" He got criticized for it and then doubled down on his comments in a presser later on. But nobody can criticize his track record of trying to preach righteousness to the black community. Terry Anderson got shared the other day on twitter and he's a strong voice as well. He doesn't like Trump at all - most of them don't and probably won't because they're generations deep in the democrat BS - but they're not overly political voices. They are more solicitous for their own communities than they are angry about Donald Trump.
Most of them don't go around blaming whites for their cultural baggage. The message that I hear most often from their pulpit is "graduate high school, pull your pants up, get a job, come to church, keep your ___ in your pants, be a man, and marry that woman." Blacks are even more opposed to feminism and homosexuality than most conservative white pastors; of course that will never get reported because the media needs to make it look like their gung-ho with all the degenerate behavior that's out there.
I am so sorry, it really hurts to have to leave your church family, I hope you find a new home soon. This really sucks - I've seen it infecting other churches as well, thankfully my own is still healthy thus far.
There are plenty of good churches still out there. Find a Calvary Chapel or a classical Baptist church or a church that preaches from the Bible, convicts people of sin (real sin), and preaches Jesus.
Yes, i just left my church of 8 years here in NC. Found a FANTASTIC church that sang the national anthem, said the pledge of allegiance, AND the star spangled banner last week and will be doing it again this week! They had a GIANT AMERICAN FLAG hung in the Sanctuary, too!
I left my old church because the Gospel Doctrine was being replaced by a Social Doctrine. Instead of unifying under Christ they started down the Marxist path of classism. It's so easy to become conditioned because after i had moved i realized my church of 8 years didn't have a single cross on any of their campuses, their social media, or website. But they sure as hell posted a black square on black out Tuesday. They didn't serve communion and they're still closed until next month, cowards. This is a big church with many campuses, too.
Black out Tuesday was the tipping point for me and i used that day to search up churches in the area that didn't post a black square. They made it very easy to navigate away from churches that supported a Social Doctrine.
I'm praying for the best for you. It's easy to find local churches online and watch their sermon before you attend them now. Good luck.
I was about to too, honestly. My goal when searching for a church was to find courage and boldness in countering the mainstream narrative because Jesus is the counter to mainstream by virtue of being perfect and everything else being sinful.
There are thousands of autonomous, independent churches in America. It was the original model, before man invented systems of control and hierarchy to increase their own power and wealth. That is the best place to start, imo.
The fact that you have a woman minister tells me you're in a liberal denomination that doesn't follow or hold to first-century Christian teaching that men and women had different roles. There are plenty of ways for women to serve the church and their fellow Christians, but public teaching is not one of them. You need to find a more conservative branch of Christianity that resists change due to pressure from outside social movements and sticks to the Bible only.
The most common name for an autonomous, conservative church in the US is "church of Christ" so my suggestion would be to do a local search on that and start visiting different ones. And try to get involved, by participating, by asking to be taught how to teach and study privately or write songs or volunteer for Christian works like helping the widows, the elderly or the sick. When you get involved and actually show a willingness to serve, those are the qualities that people recognize make great church leaders.
And leaders are the ones who ultimately can tell someone who wishes to introduce a harmful change to sit down or go somewhere else, which is what your church's elders or leadership should have done rather than let Satan divide the assembly over something as foolish as race. If this woman had tried to say something about BLM at my congregation, we would have made her do a study of Galatians 3:28 and explain why she thinks she knew better than the Apostle Paul.
Well there's your problem. How did you not notice this giant red flag?
Most of the more 'liberal' and 'progressive' churches have liberal and progressive leaders and members so they tend to have the same political beliefs. Yes, I think they're wrong and unintentionally (hopefully) supporting an evil movement. Conservative churches (such as most baptist) tend to not be like that. Of course all churches are accepting of all races just like its been as long as we've all been alive. There are no white-specific churches (just like there's no white-specific magazines or groups), but there's lots of black, Asian, Spanish-speaking, and specific churches. But white people are still shamed by mostly liberal white people.
Get out! Abomination of desolation
Yep. I left a BEAUTIFUL church many years ago because they wanted to write letters of support to muslims. They had the best music! But we were like, SEE YA!
Leave. Your church has been converged. Women, with all due respect, should not be leading congregation.
Is the church you go to methodist? I hear thats a common problem with them
When the church loses sight of the gospel, it ceases to be the church. It doesn't matter what the issue is.
The need for grace and forgiveness is a human issue, not a race issue. "Heavenly Father, we confess that we have not loved you with all of our heart, soul, and mind, and we have not loved our neighbour as ourselves."
Somehow churches seem to get distracted from this basic issue and the solution offered in Jesus. If it is not possible to help the church refocus on its mission, you may need to obtain spiritual nourishment somewhere else which may cause you to find a new church.
Someone else mentioned that to me earlier in the thread and it was like kind of an eye opening moment. I appreciate that sentiment a lot, I think I’ll take some time to find my next place of worship and just do self study for a bit
WWJD about that username?
Hopefully laugh
I had to leave my local church a few months after the election when my pastor's TDS became worse.
Then I found Calvary Chapel Church. Best decision I have ever made.
There's a Unitarian Church near my house. They had a rainbow flag and a BLM flag outside. That's not a church of Christ, that's a bunch of liberals who need Jesus, but can't go to a church that preaches the Bible, because they'd get offended.
I left when my church hired a gay youth pastor in 2015. I have been looking for a new church home, but almost every place I have been is infested hipsters and charlatans. The gay youth pastor did convert 2 interns to homosexuality and had sex with them both. The church refused to address the issue and just quietly hired a new youth pastor
Is your church of the United Church of Christ denomination?
It was an Unitarian church but I do believe they are pretty close to each other
What does the UCC believe about salvation?
A couple weeks ago my church had a “conversation” instead of a service. Mind you this was right after downtown had been looted. Basically said white people need to listen, expand our circle of friends to include other view points, and shut down racism. Then a lady involved in the church talked about how she faced racism in college where she was a minority and a majority of people thought she got accepted to the school to play a sport.
I took it with a grain of salt. Obviously racism is bad. But when you start the conversation with saying a certain group needs to not talk and only listen - and that we need to “look at the facts” (selective facts - obviously nothing like crime stats or anything) I’m out. From the sounds of your church this was very mild.
I’m not leaving, I think they meant well all things considered. I would seek a new church if I were you... if you find a wolf in sheep’s clothing there really isn’t any reason to stay with that flock.
Omg you don’t live in Atlanta do you? That sounds identical to one of my friends church after downtown was set on fire and looted
No SC
That sounds like my church also. Nowhere near ATL but the church service was similar expect it was a half black guy who gave us his story of racism. Funny thing is that the worst thing he could come up with was how it felt to be the only black kid in his school. Everyone treated him well, he just felt odd sometimes as the only black.
The church is now going woke and I'm about to leave if it continues.
Nah, I've been too busy with the Southern Baptist's stance on the environment to look into their position on race matters!
I saw something on the local news today about how some of our religious leaders around here were virtue signalling like crazy over BLM. It's fucking everywhere.