I, unfortunately, have decided that I’m going to have to leave my church due to their unrelenting BLM support and (of course) racism towards anyone who isn’t openly supporting it. When I joined this church in 2012 it was great, it was extremely spiritual and wasn’t extremist in any sort of way. They were very open and accepting of all beliefs, and I never felt ashamed to be there.
Now the entire church is only discussing how white people need to pray on our inherent evil towards minorities. One of our ministers is a black woman who was very accepting until BLM first came into existence. After that she set up a church protest to go protest the execution of a black man who had raped and murdered a woman and her child. I was NOT down with participating with that, and really considered leaving after that incident but ultimately decided to stay. From there she and another minister made it known she was not a Trump fan and now all of the leaders there are calling all white people racist. They also just recently said even other races were racist if they didn’t support BLM.
It wasnt super obvious until these past few months, but from then on things kept becoming more extremist and unaccepting. This is not a place where people can celebrate differences in thought or beliefs.
Have any of you guys had to leave a church or a community due to the rising racism of BLM / all the other shit going on? I honestly never thought I’d be hard pressed into leaving, but I don’t feel peace or love there anymore. I don’t even know how to go about finding another place to worship because I’m sure my church isn’t the only place where this is happening.
Prolly not as far as satanic, but definitely not the real deal.
Sorry ladies, but preaching was, is, and always will be, a father-figure job.
Junia (who Paul considered an Apostle), Priscilla, Mary, Phoebe,Tryphena, Julia and others would certainly be quite surprised to hear that.
Lutheran Pastor, biblical language expert, and (hopefully) soon to be Doctor of the Church here.
There’s a difference between the office of public ministry and auxiliary supporting roles. Each of the women you’ve mentioned were not a part of the Office of Public ministry.
To be a pastor (often called “elder” in the original languages) there are tons of criteria listed all throughout scripture, notably in the Pauline epistles. Most men do not qualify, but certainly no women do.
This has nothing to do with capacity or ability. It’s not like a woman would be “worse” at the job, it’s just purely not applicable.
The reason for this has to do with God’s created order and the true expectations of men and women. The super short version is that men are to lead by word and action, to deliberately seek those who need help and provide it, and to manage their households well. Women are to absorb God’s instructions to such a degree that they spread them by their very presence in every aspect of their life, whether at home or in public.
Men and women are both intended to serve the Church with these callings. The office of public ministry is more than this though, it’s a special office established by God to serve the Church and to fill this one must meet the qualifications, one of which is to be a faithful man. Women can and should serve in the church. Deaconesses are a thing. They just aren’t pastors.
The unique job of the pastor is to publicly teach the Word, administer the sacraments, and manage the church’s practice.
You’ll note that Pastors do WAY more than this. That’s fine, but one doesn’t have to be a pastor to do the other things. Anyone can. And even all should tbh.
I’ll be around if anyone has any questions on this.
Do you happen to have some verses that reference these things on hand? I'd like to look into this more on my own.
I do! It's important to maintain the noteworthiness of Public Ministry while still keeping it in its role to serve God's people.
Regarding the idea that public service is different than the priesthood of all believers that every Christian is baptized, I will cite Ephesians 4:11-12 (though that whole section is great).
Regarding the specific qualifications of a pastor please see 1 Timothy 3:1-7 (there's another smaller reference in Titus 1:5-6).
As for the creation of man and woman the best place to check it out is certainly Genesis 2. God takes special care in forming Adam and Eve and they both have different but complementary callings before the fall into sin with Adam leading and Eve helping.
Note that her helping is not in any way less important. In fact the first problem in the world is that Adam was incomplete without her. This has profound impact on tons of teachings from marriage to ordination, and even to Christ as Head of the Church.
Anyway, back to Ephesians for God's expectations for men and women. Ephesians 5:22-33 is an incredible passage. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, and gave himself up for her. In other words, there is nothing a husband is to hold back from their wife, no selfishness, no pride. There can be no more love in them that could possibly go to a side-chick because their love is for God first and wife second.
This extends to general conduct for men and women as well as seen in how it gets expressed in 1 Timothy 2. Like all of it.
If you need or want more, just let me know!
Gender in the church (https://youtu.be/7FFGyythc38)
There are no "offices" in the Church. That is a tradition of man.
Sorry friend, whoever taught you that was mistaken.
“The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.” 1 Timothy 3:1 ESV
Apocrypha and heretical deviances do not count, yo.
That's not Apocrypha - it's literally in Paul's epistles in the New Testament. Yo.
And yet you couldn't refer to them by chapter and verse?
Just because they hold a place of reverence, does NOT make them preachers.
Do you have any sources about any of them?
Which of them taught men?