Academia can only be destroyed when people stop requiring 4 year degrees for jobs that don't need them. Unless you're going into fields that require specific education like scientific, medical, engineering, etc. then you don't need a degree. People like me, so many like me, only got degrees because we had to in order to get a decent desk job. The moment those requirements drop is the moment college is largely no longer necessary.
Despite having gone to a top tier school that was worth it, I completely agree. Even with medical school, you shouldn’t need a 4 year degree, just go straight to medical school or apprenticing. Same with lawyers. I know plenty of lawyers with bullshit BAs they only got to go to law school. Some even went to law school after to pay off their bullshit degree they realized at the end wasn’t worth it.
You can major in art and then go to law school, but you can’t just go to law school. That alone should tell you it’s a silly requirement. At least require a relevant degree.
I see shit all the time where people say you need a 4 year degree to do this or that, or a masters. Then you see the degrees and masters people have and their all Wikipedia degrees. I know people that have masters in sexuality and erotic literature and all kinds of studies degrees that have jobs that have nothing to do with anything they do professionally but still meet the requirement of ‘a master’s is required’. Usually get the jobs through diversity hiring and friendships.
This. and if high school was taught right, the 4 year would be even more useless.
if 4 years in BS undergrad "studies" can "prepare" you to make 100k then 4 years in HS should at least get you to the point you can be a substitute teacher or some office cubicle drone
This. and if high school was taught right, the 4 year would be even more useless.
I think you're right and that's definitely part of it. High school should properly prepare people for their future careers. I feel like it used to when our parents were kids.
college is BS i already have the entire bachelors curriculum learned (most of it done at 10 years old) in a stem field but i cant work more than mcdonalds lol. even though people in my field online that i offer free tutoring to think im amazing and i help them pass college just fine :P.
I actually did get to take an associates program, and i passed everything on prior knowledge while being drunk in class and only showing up because i had to and to prove i already knew the material.
instantly became allowed to act as TA without the position and got waived into any classes i wanted without taking prereqs.
none of that matters though, since i didnt meet the stringent requirements i cant go on to prove i know more, and nobody will hire me.
personally i wouldnt mind if the entire school system burnt in a fire and all computerized records of everyone was just lost forever.
if given the opportunity i could prove it. If someones willing to give me an unpaid internship (excluding food, water and the room i need for a few years just to eek out alive) Id work full time or more for free as long as there was promise of full equivalent salary with other workers after that point and a full bypass of the HR hiring process.
cant beat that deal. free highly skilled labor and all you gotta do is bypass HR and give me the chance, and an attic room with some slices of bread and water. im willing to do it for up to 3 years for no pay at all. but after that i want in and i want in good. your going to pay me as much as other lead developers and just pretend i have the shitty paperwork after i prove to you equivalent competency, productivity and skill.
otherwise i'll keep working fast food and actually getting paid thx.
Even with medical school, you shouldn’t need a 4 year degree, just go straight to medical school or apprenticing.
Well doctors have a number of science classes that are quite important pre-requisites to going to med school. Typically you'd want to set aside 2 years for that but even doing it that way is rather intense. My brother did a post-bacc pre-med program before going to med school because he didn't take science in college (in an insane one year program because he was already in his mid 20s) and I can't imagine him going to med school without the knowledge he learned there because they just build upon that and you need some sort of foundation.
I know plenty of lawyers with bullshit BAs they only got to go to law school.
I will agree that a lot of BA's don't mean much but I do think there's a certain set of skills people would benefit from before going to law school. I think something like a specialized one year program (or less?) for stuff like that would be a far better use of money and time for people intending to enter law school. There's a huge gap between high school and law school.
All science courses would better be done in med school as relevant to med school, and most of the practical business of being a doctor doesn’t really require that in the current system on top of that. Thanks to the complex regulations governing medical billing and coding, doctors don’t have much choice at a lot of levels of what they’re doing. Someone has this or that symptoms and this or that blood markers, you are permitted to do this or that.
You can easily build anything law school needs into law school as well, and it would be done better there.
Some of the pre-med classes are more applicable than others.
Pre-med typically includes inorganic chem 1 and 2, organic chem 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, biology 1 and 2, and sometimes calculus 1 and 2.
It could be argued that this is a core basis for scientific work etc but little of this is actually necessary or useful in daily practice of medicine. Sure the chem classes help prepare you for medical biochemistry but even that is of questionable significance in the career of most docs. Do I really need to know all about organometallics and how they react if I am a pediatrician?
Most premed classes are just for weed-out of those less likely to be able to handle the flood of memorization and new concepts that occurs in medical school. This would be less important if Med schools didn’t have a legacy of wanting to graduate everyone they accept. Law schools, for example, happily let people fail out. That is not the tradition at most US medical schools.
Truth is most training programs that are not practical apprenticeships include a bunch of crap you’ll probably never use, often taught by people with no private enterprise experience. The saving grace in medicine is the residency that follows medical school, a 3-7 year practical apprenticeship of increasing responsibility in which you learn the real guts of your career.
Academia can only be destroyed when people stop requiring 4 year degrees for jobs that don't need them. Unless you're going into fields that require specific education like scientific, medical, engineering, etc. then you don't need a degree. People like me, so many like me, only got degrees because we had to in order to get a decent desk job. The moment those requirements drop is the moment college is largely no longer necessary.
Despite having gone to a top tier school that was worth it, I completely agree. Even with medical school, you shouldn’t need a 4 year degree, just go straight to medical school or apprenticing. Same with lawyers. I know plenty of lawyers with bullshit BAs they only got to go to law school. Some even went to law school after to pay off their bullshit degree they realized at the end wasn’t worth it.
You can major in art and then go to law school, but you can’t just go to law school. That alone should tell you it’s a silly requirement. At least require a relevant degree.
I see shit all the time where people say you need a 4 year degree to do this or that, or a masters. Then you see the degrees and masters people have and their all Wikipedia degrees. I know people that have masters in sexuality and erotic literature and all kinds of studies degrees that have jobs that have nothing to do with anything they do professionally but still meet the requirement of ‘a master’s is required’. Usually get the jobs through diversity hiring and friendships.
This. and if high school was taught right, the 4 year would be even more useless.
if 4 years in BS undergrad "studies" can "prepare" you to make 100k then 4 years in HS should at least get you to the point you can be a substitute teacher or some office cubicle drone
I think you're right and that's definitely part of it. High school should properly prepare people for their future careers. I feel like it used to when our parents were kids.
college is BS i already have the entire bachelors curriculum learned (most of it done at 10 years old) in a stem field but i cant work more than mcdonalds lol. even though people in my field online that i offer free tutoring to think im amazing and i help them pass college just fine :P.
I actually did get to take an associates program, and i passed everything on prior knowledge while being drunk in class and only showing up because i had to and to prove i already knew the material.
instantly became allowed to act as TA without the position and got waived into any classes i wanted without taking prereqs.
none of that matters though, since i didnt meet the stringent requirements i cant go on to prove i know more, and nobody will hire me.
personally i wouldnt mind if the entire school system burnt in a fire and all computerized records of everyone was just lost forever.
if given the opportunity i could prove it. If someones willing to give me an unpaid internship (excluding food, water and the room i need for a few years just to eek out alive) Id work full time or more for free as long as there was promise of full equivalent salary with other workers after that point and a full bypass of the HR hiring process.
cant beat that deal. free highly skilled labor and all you gotta do is bypass HR and give me the chance, and an attic room with some slices of bread and water. im willing to do it for up to 3 years for no pay at all. but after that i want in and i want in good. your going to pay me as much as other lead developers and just pretend i have the shitty paperwork after i prove to you equivalent competency, productivity and skill.
otherwise i'll keep working fast food and actually getting paid thx.
Well doctors have a number of science classes that are quite important pre-requisites to going to med school. Typically you'd want to set aside 2 years for that but even doing it that way is rather intense. My brother did a post-bacc pre-med program before going to med school because he didn't take science in college (in an insane one year program because he was already in his mid 20s) and I can't imagine him going to med school without the knowledge he learned there because they just build upon that and you need some sort of foundation.
I will agree that a lot of BA's don't mean much but I do think there's a certain set of skills people would benefit from before going to law school. I think something like a specialized one year program (or less?) for stuff like that would be a far better use of money and time for people intending to enter law school. There's a huge gap between high school and law school.
All science courses would better be done in med school as relevant to med school, and most of the practical business of being a doctor doesn’t really require that in the current system on top of that. Thanks to the complex regulations governing medical billing and coding, doctors don’t have much choice at a lot of levels of what they’re doing. Someone has this or that symptoms and this or that blood markers, you are permitted to do this or that.
You can easily build anything law school needs into law school as well, and it would be done better there.
Some of the pre-med classes are more applicable than others.
Pre-med typically includes inorganic chem 1 and 2, organic chem 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, biology 1 and 2, and sometimes calculus 1 and 2.
It could be argued that this is a core basis for scientific work etc but little of this is actually necessary or useful in daily practice of medicine. Sure the chem classes help prepare you for medical biochemistry but even that is of questionable significance in the career of most docs. Do I really need to know all about organometallics and how they react if I am a pediatrician?
Most premed classes are just for weed-out of those less likely to be able to handle the flood of memorization and new concepts that occurs in medical school. This would be less important if Med schools didn’t have a legacy of wanting to graduate everyone they accept. Law schools, for example, happily let people fail out. That is not the tradition at most US medical schools.
Truth is most training programs that are not practical apprenticeships include a bunch of crap you’ll probably never use, often taught by people with no private enterprise experience. The saving grace in medicine is the residency that follows medical school, a 3-7 year practical apprenticeship of increasing responsibility in which you learn the real guts of your career.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/why-we-need-new-trump-executive-order-on-no-college-jobs-hiring.html
Few days ago:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/why-we-need-new-trump-executive-order-on-no-college-jobs-hiring.html
It starts with immigration reform. When employers can stop buying foreign workers from degree mills, they will need to start training their own.
JOB OPENING: ENTRY LEVEL POSITION- REQUIREMENTS 4 YEAR DEGREE REQUIRED. MINIMUM 7 YEAR WORK RELATED EXPERIENCE. CHANCE FOR ADVANCEMENT AFTER 5 YEARS.
Agreed! Finish it off!
Based.