Also the Left: On second thought, you can't call the police, they all got fired and laid off. Here's the phone number to this lovely crisis social worker I know.
Social workers and psychiatrists are the worst scum of our society. They are the ones convincing kids (and adults) that they have "gender dysphoria" or adhd or depression or dyslexia and need to be chemically sterilized or over medicated with addictive barbiturates. Meanwhile they get rich, and respect from society for the invaluable services they provide. It's enough to make one nauseous. i can see them cancelling people that go against this but they are few and far between. So yeah the first part is vague and smells like bullshit mister.
NAL but a lawyer representing someone is bound under different rules of professionalism and is there to win your case. He needs to control the narrative in the face of possible jury selection and/or media bias.
As a client, though, they can cut loose a bit. I'm sure that behind the scenes the case is Prudential.
the main reason lawyers want separate lawyers is how privilege and liability act with the law
its much easier for a third party to represent you, because it's basically impossible to maintain all the protections of the law if you yourself are interacting w/ the prosecution or other party
And don't talk to the police. Justice Jackson in Watts v. Indiana: "any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances."
anything you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of law. They forget to say " but anything you say CAN'T be used to help or defend you in a court of law."
Precisely. I bet most people don't know that a prosecuter can get a statement by the police struck from the record if he feels it helps the defendant. They can even win an objection if your defense attorney asks the officer, for example, if he thought you were being cooperative.
I'll use any opening to link to this video. 47 minutes long and every second is worthwhile. TL;DR: Say nothing to the cops beyond "I have nothing to say until my attorney is present." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
Ok, but why? Is it like how in cop dramas when a cop is killed they don't let the partner on the case because they're "too close?" Or is there a more legal lawyer-y reason?
It's because there are all sorts of games they can play if you represent yourself. This is a Soros-funded DA driving this prosecution, if you remember. So you can expect Flynn-level BS where they interview you, you say nothing incriminating, and then they simply lie about what you said. And you have no witnesses.
Having your own lawyer gives you a witness. It gives you a firewall between you and the system. You have someone who will help you stop them from playing all kinds of petty little games.
There have been lawyers who tried to represent themselves and still got tricked. Most of the tricks work better on innocent people than guilty ones.
Suffice it to say, there's a reason why they always tell you to shut up and get a lawyer. Especially when you're an innocent person being maliciously prosecuted, you absolutely positively need a lawyer. The more innocent you are, the more critical it becomes.
Look at Flynn. He could have avoided some 4 years of suffering now if he had simply shut his mouth and had a lawyer present during that interview where he did nothing wrong. They specifically sent the interviewers over, bypassing the Whitehouse lawyers who would have sat at the table with him, to make sure they were able to play the evil little games they played.
The fact that we are even discussing this in reference to the incident in St. Louis shows how the second amendment is finished. This is what Europeans do after a home invasion. Unless Americans protest outside of the DA office and make their voices heard there really is no hope.
Well for one thing, all lawyers specialize in different areas of the law. You definitely want criminal defense lawyers to defend you, and most lawyers aren't defense lawyers.
Second, you need counsel that is more clear eyed and not emotionally involved in the case to ensure mistakes aren't made.
It's a bit like how "doctors make the worst patients", where they don't follow the advice they would give to others.
Because it's the wise thing to do. You should never be your own lawyer, even if you are a lawyer.
The lawyer can make statements on your behalf, and there's some deniability if the lawyer makes a small misstatement. Comparatively, if you say something false as a defendant, even mistakenly, you might end up subjected to perjury charges and the kind of nonsense General Flynn went through.
Because they can afford it
So they're prepared if some DA throws random charges at them unexpectedly
So they can be released from prison faster if something happens.
Because lawyers have specializations. Divorce, property, traffic-tickets, copyright, etc.
The activist DA has already threatened charges.
To make sure they don't do anything which would incriminate themselves, or do other acts that could result in them being charged
That's because there are two very different areas of law: Civil and Criminal. Then you can get even more specific from there with specialties like intellectual property, employment law, tax law, etc.. I wouldn't go to a criminal defense lawyer to file my patents.
Most lawyers I know hire a tax attorney to do their taxes. They hire estate/trust lawyers to do their Trusts, etc..
Then you had the Obama Administration weaponizing the IRS to go after conservative groups. No justice was ever served by those who participated and organized that persecution.
This couple should have killed every single one of those traitorous dogs that broke their fence and tresspassed after they warned them.
Let this be a lesson for everyone else. Give them a warning maybe twice then shoot as soon as your done warning them if they don't move an inch. It's your property and the law protects you to do such.
No more tolerance for the left. None. Time for them to suffer death when their own actions call for it. * fixed.
But is that the only reason is to intimidate us? A felony gun charge wouls strip all government aid, no more gun carrying and no voting rights. They dont want to intimidate they want to catch you in an act they can spon to destroy your way of life and put all American patriots under the correct tier in there SJW system.
Somebody has to say it. Only way to get out of this. And it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The tree of liberty is thirsty and we have a lot of tyrants.
And rich. You forgot they are rich. They can complain to a lot of their rich friends whom form the cabal of the rich and powerful in St Louis that control the levers of power.
Obama needs to be life in prisoned and if lucky publicly executed. Then with all his evil exposed, all officials he ever appointed should be expelled and investigated
I just had this conversation with my wife yesterday. I'm kinda glad they are going after this couple because they are rich and lawyers, so I'm sure they have the resources to fight it and make the state pay for such egregious violations of their rights.
I'm not a big fan of enriching the already entitled, but I hope that this couple sues the pants off everyone involved in disarming people who have had credible death threats made against them.
The left has activist prosecutors and judges that will always take their own side regardless of facts of the case. What the right needs is to stop being boyscouts and start taking their own side regardless of facts of the case. If you're on a jury always vote one of our guys to go free and a commist guilty. Regardless of the facts of the case, it's what they do to us.
Also - they are Americans. I’ve not been perfect my entire life and I dare say you haven’t either. What matters is how the public sees this clear violation of our 2nd amendment rights NOT who they donated to in the past. In 7th grade we had a mock election in school and I wanted Mondale to win. Does that mean I am disqualified from support if my rights are violated? No!
I totally agree. I don't think anyone deserves what is happening to them.
They looked terrified. It's wrong to harass them. They did nothing wrong. They fired no weapons. You have every right to defend yourself and shouldn't have to wait until someone enters the front door.
You’re a dumbass, meanwhile I’ve convinced more than a few people to starting leaning right. How many Americans have you convinced to changed views with your emotional attitude?
You’re the equivalent of an emotional Bernie supporter who starts screaming as soon as anyone says they will vote for trump. No ones gonna wanna argue anything with you
Still, this shit only happened because millions of idiots like these two VOTED FOR IT! It's not even like they were conservatives living in a D area. They were supporters of this. They supported the same thing being done to others simpy be supporting the Democrat party. When it comes to their doorstep then they had a problem with it. The flip side of that is that we cannot support this happening to them just because they helped create the situation. Otherwise we are no better, and the most important thing here is the government is out of bounds and it should not be tolerated
Screw Snopes. See my post in this sub-thread on having looked at the FEC database. Learn to use primary resources like that.
I also looked at Missouri's campaign finance disclosure database to confirm that St. Louis DA Kim Gardner indeed received $100s of thousands in in-kind donations for media buys from a Soros group in DC. I did that long before the McCloskeys, when I read that the DA had let go all the St. Louis rioters / looters that had been arrested. Soros is funding chaos in the USA. He and every DA he supported should be RICOed for fomenting insurrection.
"Stunt"?? So it's a stunt to not let terrorists overrun your property and possibly burn your house to the ground or worse... I assume you are just another troll, but if not, you need to start studying up on how to think for yourself because you are certainly a sheep.
Trespassers on their private property who were threatening their lives. Under Missouri castle doctrine, they had total legal grounds to shoot the crowd dead. They refrained.
Yeah, I don't see how you can have a right to shoot the protesters, which they do under Castle Doctrine, but no right to point the gun at those same invaders.
It makes no sense to push the laws into conflict so that they penalize someone for showing restraint and I hope their lawyer gets the jury to recognize that.
That is absolutely untrue, u/Anaconda. They are longtime Republicans and Trump supporters. There are two Mark McCloskeys, it's the other one who is a Bernie lover.
Constitution: the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.
Missouri couple: bear arms
Government: takes arms away so they can no longer bear arms
Me: WTF!
Also the Left: On second thought, you can't call the police, they all got fired and laid off. Here's the phone number to this lovely crisis social worker I know.
Also also the left: you're calling because there's a mob carrying improvised weapons that broke down a gate to get on your property? You racist!
They made it illegal in NYC to have a "racially biased 911 call". So have fun getting prosecuted after you accurately describe your attack.
Social workers and psychiatrists are the worst scum of our society. They are the ones convincing kids (and adults) that they have "gender dysphoria" or adhd or depression or dyslexia and need to be chemically sterilized or over medicated with addictive barbiturates. Meanwhile they get rich, and respect from society for the invaluable services they provide. It's enough to make one nauseous. i can see them cancelling people that go against this but they are few and far between. So yeah the first part is vague and smells like bullshit mister.
The police will come over and arrest the homeowners on some technicality.
Notice how even they hired lawyers
A Man Who Is His Own Lawyer Has A Fool for a Client
But at least he found work
NAL but a lawyer representing someone is bound under different rules of professionalism and is there to win your case. He needs to control the narrative in the face of possible jury selection and/or media bias.
As a client, though, they can cut loose a bit. I'm sure that behind the scenes the case is Prudential.
I heard today the lawyer was black?
And an idiot for an employer.
I worked with a guy whos dad is a pediatrician. He won't treat his grandkids. He has a colleague do it.
It's quite clear you're not from the Biden family
that is a bit different though
the main reason lawyers want separate lawyers is how privilege and liability act with the law
its much easier for a third party to represent you, because it's basically impossible to maintain all the protections of the law if you yourself are interacting w/ the prosecution or other party
Everything you say can and will be used against you in court...even if you say it in court while acting as your own counsel.
And don't talk to the police. Justice Jackson in Watts v. Indiana: "any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances."
anything you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of law. They forget to say " but anything you say CAN'T be used to help or defend you in a court of law."
Precisely. I bet most people don't know that a prosecuter can get a statement by the police struck from the record if he feels it helps the defendant. They can even win an objection if your defense attorney asks the officer, for example, if he thought you were being cooperative.
I'll use any opening to link to this video. 47 minutes long and every second is worthwhile. TL;DR: Say nothing to the cops beyond "I have nothing to say until my attorney is present." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
All absolutist statements are false?
Cops can be real accusatory if you happen to live in a shitty area. They’re just playing the odds.
I agree, treat them with respect and usually the situation resolves itself.
Ok, but why? Is it like how in cop dramas when a cop is killed they don't let the partner on the case because they're "too close?" Or is there a more legal lawyer-y reason?
It's because there are all sorts of games they can play if you represent yourself. This is a Soros-funded DA driving this prosecution, if you remember. So you can expect Flynn-level BS where they interview you, you say nothing incriminating, and then they simply lie about what you said. And you have no witnesses.
Having your own lawyer gives you a witness. It gives you a firewall between you and the system. You have someone who will help you stop them from playing all kinds of petty little games.
There have been lawyers who tried to represent themselves and still got tricked. Most of the tricks work better on innocent people than guilty ones.
Suffice it to say, there's a reason why they always tell you to shut up and get a lawyer. Especially when you're an innocent person being maliciously prosecuted, you absolutely positively need a lawyer. The more innocent you are, the more critical it becomes.
Look at Flynn. He could have avoided some 4 years of suffering now if he had simply shut his mouth and had a lawyer present during that interview where he did nothing wrong. They specifically sent the interviewers over, bypassing the Whitehouse lawyers who would have sat at the table with him, to make sure they were able to play the evil little games they played.
The fact that we are even discussing this in reference to the incident in St. Louis shows how the second amendment is finished. This is what Europeans do after a home invasion. Unless Americans protest outside of the DA office and make their voices heard there really is no hope.
Oh right that makes sense. Funny thing is speeding tickets is right where my mind went. Lawyers must speed all time! :D
the main reason a lawyer will want another person to be their lawyer is because of how legal privileges and protections work
its a lot harder to openly talk w/ the prosecutor/other party or work out deals when you personally are invested in the case...
Well for one thing, all lawyers specialize in different areas of the law. You definitely want criminal defense lawyers to defend you, and most lawyers aren't defense lawyers.
Second, you need counsel that is more clear eyed and not emotionally involved in the case to ensure mistakes aren't made.
It's a bit like how "doctors make the worst patients", where they don't follow the advice they would give to others.
The blacksmith eats with a wooden spoon.
Spanish proverb
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law...even if you say it in court as your own counsel.
That's because there are two very different areas of law: Civil and Criminal. Then you can get even more specific from there with specialties like intellectual property, employment law, tax law, etc.. I wouldn't go to a criminal defense lawyer to file my patents.
Most lawyers I know hire a tax attorney to do their taxes. They hire estate/trust lawyers to do their Trusts, etc..
Black Beans Matter, especially GOYA
I made a grocery run this AM.
Wife: Did you buy the bag of Goya stuff as an anti-boycott?
Me: Yes.
Wife: Aren’t you proud I knew about that?
Me: Yes!
I'm in San Francisco and I don't recall seeing Goya branded stuff but I will look for it. I love canned beans, they are incredibly versatile.
You should reward her tonight.
Lawfare
They're going to own half the city once the lawsuits are done. Just hope the mob doesn't burn their house down and/or lynch them before that happens.
Either way, poor souls. Death or owning half of St. Louis. That's a hell of a dilemma.
Watch it make it's way up to the Supreme Court and we get a ruling strengthening Castle Doctrine nationally.
(inb4 Roberts cucks out over it.)
lol if you think the Supreme Court would ever rule in our favor, or even look at a 2A case.
It might take a few years for this to progress that far. Who knows how many Justices Trump can get on the court in that much time?
Well so far his Justice picks aren't on our side, and thats not his fault.
Supreme just punted a whole stack of 2A cases that were cut and dry.
Then you had the Obama Administration weaponizing the IRS to go after conservative groups. No justice was ever served by those who participated and organized that persecution.
This couple should have killed every single one of those traitorous dogs that broke their fence and tresspassed after they warned them.
Let this be a lesson for everyone else. Give them a warning maybe twice then shoot as soon as your done warning them if they don't move an inch. It's your property and the law protects you to do such.
No more tolerance for the left. None. Time for them to suffer death when their own actions call for it. * fixed.
But is that the only reason is to intimidate us? A felony gun charge wouls strip all government aid, no more gun carrying and no voting rights. They dont want to intimidate they want to catch you in an act they can spon to destroy your way of life and put all American patriots under the correct tier in there SJW system.
Somebody has to say it. Only way to get out of this. And it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The tree of liberty is thirsty and we have a lot of tyrants.
Apparently the McCloskey's are democrats.
If they are still democrats after this, well, you get what you vote for.
my understanding is this was fake news from the get go
they're conservatives
edit: https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=mark+mccloskey&contributor_city=st+louis
double edit: better source from elsewhere in the thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDdEm_iAKos&t=2m0s
And rich. You forgot they are rich. They can complain to a lot of their rich friends whom form the cabal of the rich and powerful in St Louis that control the levers of power.
shall not be infringed??
Obama needs to be life in prisoned and if lucky publicly executed. Then with all his evil exposed, all officials he ever appointed should be expelled and investigated
They're actually registered Democrat too
I just had this conversation with my wife yesterday. I'm kinda glad they are going after this couple because they are rich and lawyers, so I'm sure they have the resources to fight it and make the state pay for such egregious violations of their rights.
I'm not a big fan of enriching the already entitled, but I hope that this couple sues the pants off everyone involved in disarming people who have had credible death threats made against them.
I hope they have the courage to fight back.
The left has activist prosecutors and judges that will always take their own side regardless of facts of the case. What the right needs is to stop being boyscouts and start taking their own side regardless of facts of the case. If you're on a jury always vote one of our guys to go free and a commist guilty. Regardless of the facts of the case, it's what they do to us.
Malicious prosecution is a plague in this country.
You set the BAR high on this one, comrade.
Is there a non profit that takes on cases like this using charity money for the best legal representation?
Also, they aren't conservatives
dude don't link to snopes and expect anyone to take it seriously
still more reliable than snopes. unironically
From the man's own mouth... https://youtube.com/watch?v=UDdEm_iAKos&t=2m0s
From one of your earlier comments:
I wouldn't. Id double down and make them call my bluff
They are longtime Republicans and Trump supporters: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UDdEm_iAKos&t=2m0s
as if that makes it ok
Just no, do NOT propagate BS from someone who didn't do their homework, and be someone who didn't do their homework.
I examined the FEC database early on. There are two Mark McCloskeys. One works for a healthcare company and is a Bernie Bro. He gave peanuts.
The other works for a self-named corporation and gave big bucks to Trump. I'm 99.9% sure it's this lawyer.
Also - they are Americans. I’ve not been perfect my entire life and I dare say you haven’t either. What matters is how the public sees this clear violation of our 2nd amendment rights NOT who they donated to in the past. In 7th grade we had a mock election in school and I wanted Mondale to win. Does that mean I am disqualified from support if my rights are violated? No!
I totally agree. I don't think anyone deserves what is happening to them.
They looked terrified. It's wrong to harass them. They did nothing wrong. They fired no weapons. You have every right to defend yourself and shouldn't have to wait until someone enters the front door.
We should champion everyone's rights.
Gtfo with that attitude
no you gtfo pussy. Liberals aren't Americans. Hell they aren't even people
You’re a dumbass, meanwhile I’ve convinced more than a few people to starting leaning right. How many Americans have you convinced to changed views with your emotional attitude?
You’re the equivalent of an emotional Bernie supporter who starts screaming as soon as anyone says they will vote for trump. No ones gonna wanna argue anything with you
lol
Liberals aren't people
A wise woman once said...You don't fight evil by adopting it's tactics.
doesn't sound very wise to me
Still, this shit only happened because millions of idiots like these two VOTED FOR IT! It's not even like they were conservatives living in a D area. They were supporters of this. They supported the same thing being done to others simpy be supporting the Democrat party. When it comes to their doorstep then they had a problem with it. The flip side of that is that we cannot support this happening to them just because they helped create the situation. Otherwise we are no better, and the most important thing here is the government is out of bounds and it should not be tolerated
Screw Snopes. See my post in this sub-thread on having looked at the FEC database. Learn to use primary resources like that.
I also looked at Missouri's campaign finance disclosure database to confirm that St. Louis DA Kim Gardner indeed received $100s of thousands in in-kind donations for media buys from a Soros group in DC. I did that long before the McCloskeys, when I read that the DA had let go all the St. Louis rioters / looters that had been arrested. Soros is funding chaos in the USA. He and every DA he supported should be RICOed for fomenting insurrection.
Yes, I made a post about it at the time:
https://thedonald.win/p/FysUs3sX/this-is-the-criminal-da-who-just/c/
Deport Anaconda.
He's a liar, blackpill pusher, argues in bad faith, and is probably a plant.
And Donald Trump went to Chelsea's wedding, yet here we are.
Mobs on your lawn are in danger...this is not France.
"Stunt"?? So it's a stunt to not let terrorists overrun your property and possibly burn your house to the ground or worse... I assume you are just another troll, but if not, you need to start studying up on how to think for yourself because you are certainly a sheep.
Trespassers on their private property who were threatening their lives. Under Missouri castle doctrine, they had total legal grounds to shoot the crowd dead. They refrained.
Yeah, I don't see how you can have a right to shoot the protesters, which they do under Castle Doctrine, but no right to point the gun at those same invaders.
It makes no sense to push the laws into conflict so that they penalize someone for showing restraint and I hope their lawyer gets the jury to recognize that.
Holy cow, the stupid is strong with this one. Wanna do some pushups to see who is right?
That is absolutely untrue, u/Anaconda. They are longtime Republicans and Trump supporters. There are two Mark McCloskeys, it's the other one who is a Bernie lover.
Spez - From the man's own mouth: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UDdEm_iAKos&t=2m0s
As you yourself explained in an earlier comment: