white people are too good at making music, we need affirmative action in orchestras!
(media.patriots.win)
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Turns out only hiring people based on their skills doesn't result in a mix of skin colors that matches the statistics of the larger society.
But who cares? Interesting that no one is pointing out how people of Asian descent are "over represented" if what you're after is a ratio identical to the number present in society. Nor do they ever complain about "black people" being over represented in other specific genres of music.
So, is there some secret genetic link between skin color, hair texture, and facial structure and one's ability to pour thousands of hours of your life into practicing an orchestral instrument?
Or is it maybe something to do with whether or not parents encourage children to listen to classical music and instill a love and enjoyment in playing such an instrument?
If we need more black representation in classical music, then we need more diversity in the NBA.
It’s not about skill, talent or ability. We need accurate representation.
60% of the NBA should be Caucasian.
Except diversity = no wypipo
And porn.
Midgets are under lots of things in general.
As are paraplegics
Yeah NBA is on target for the end goal of 100% diversity
ok, more asians then. That 7 foot tall guy and the Harvard economics guy did ok.
Asians are worse than whites, because they reenforce the oppressive meritocracy!
Little people are drastically unrepresented in the NBA
“2% of the population” are trans. Where is the representation?
At my local Wal-Mart as a greeter.
We don't, because that would be cultural appropriation.
I was gonna say the same: that blacks are appropriating my culture!
And I actively listen to classical too!
In all seriousness, I do not care who is playing that divine music, but that equality of opportunity and meritocracy are both honored through blind auditions.
When I watch Your Lie In April, do I care that the musical score is played by Japanese?
I care how well the music is played by talented men and women.
Hell, Chopin's Ballade No.1 in G Minor, Op.23 arranged by Masaru Yokoyama and played by Yuna Shinohara is the best version that I have ever been blessed to hear.
To play classical music was understood by Pythagorus of Samos, later Croton and Johann Sebastian Bach to be holy...
...So to destroy classical music in this manner is to desecrate the Sacred.
And of course, the entire problem is that the proverbial they don't care about the quality of the music. They only care about forcing each and every aspect of society to conform to their skewed political worldview.
Lol that’s probably the best example for showing how all their “it’s about demographics/communities!” is all bullshit anti-white rhetoric.
Because if it truly was about demographics or the community (which of course is stupid for its own reasons) their logic would essentially make the Utah Jazz an all white team. Regardless if you do it proportionally for state demographics, or for just the actual people who watch and attend games. Almost all are white. Maybe you’d get 1 black guy in the team depending on the balance between raw demographics vs fans who watch.
But they wouldn’t do that. Thus proving it is solely anti-white garbage they spew.
Need more white rappers too and afro-Cuban Latin musicians as well. Not diverse enough.
What's hilarious about that, is I always thought Eminem was one of the good rappers because he had something to say (even if I don't agree with a lot of it anymore), vs mainstream black rappers where it's just all about aggression and selling drugs and fucking bitches.
And the SJW's are already on the case with "If you don't like rap but you like Eminem then block me now you gross racist."
Genetics. People need to grow the fuck up and accept that the biological substratum matters—more than the rest. We are not born blank slates—that is ridiculous Flat-earth level bullshit requiring incredible amounts of willful ignorance—and all the parental encouragement and supportive environment in the world can only take you so far before you hit the wall of innate potential and disposition.
We already live in a time where we live, more or less, to our genetic potential (phenotypic maxima) more than any other time in human history. Everyone goes to school and has god-like access to essentially infinite knowledge at their fingertips. Food is abundant and security, from a historical perspective, is pretty much as high as it has ever become
And yet... the shrieking gender studies majors would have you believe the opposite..
I’m starting to wonder whether all this nonsense is because of too much security. The average folk have too much time on their hands since they don’t have to spend time defending themselves or just surviving. This is time spent yearning for some philosophical ideal. So when you don’t believe in God, I think this is the end result
So you think any random pale-skinned kid living in a trailer park with an alcoholic single-mother where he's only ever exposed to old rock and hip-hop music has a better chance of growing up to play orchestral violin than a dark skinned girl who's the third child of a well-paid Judge and a College professor that take her out to see the symphony, operas, and plays on a regular basis?
Both genetics and environmental factors make a difference in an individual's life, but acting like genetics are primarily determinative is just as much a lame excuse for losers to stay losers as "systemic racism" is. Ability to play an instrument well is a factor of how much you practice and what access to quality training and equipment you have. Which style of music you prefer is a function of individual tastes born of familiarity, exposure, and societal pressures and fads.
Exceptions do not make the rule.
What he just described isn't an exception. It's called "nature vs. nurture."
No they don't. They disprove the rule.
I think one could argue that each individual has a genetic limit on intelligence and athletics. Why wouldn't you also believe there are genetic limits to musical talent?
Not any one instrument, but musical talent in general.
Maybe the trailer park kid turns out to be Eminem.
Just because he doesn't play the violin doesn't mean he doesn't have musical talent.
I never said anything about generic "musical talent" because there's no such thing. The article is about the Orchestra specifically. My point is that which genre an individual chooses to perform is unrelated to how well they play.
"Talent" is a false concept that people who haven't put thousands of hours of effort into something use to excuse themselves from not being as good as the person who put in more work. It's the same as someone who doesn't study saying the kid that's spending four hours every night studying is "just smart".
Besides, what is or isn't "good music" is purely a matter of personal taste. An untrained person's enjoyment of music has almost nothing to do with how technically difficult performing that music is. The vast majority of performers in an orchestra spend most of the time playing very simple parts that aren't challenging at all.
The whole "but genetics" argument is an excuse. You don't even need 10 fully formed fingers to play a lot of orchestral parts. Most people don't simply because they just don't want to, and there's nothing wrong with that. Dragging any concept of race or genetics into it is asinine.
Yes but music is also a cultural expression and has an origin, traditional history and performance discipline. Classical music is "white" music regardless of who plays it. My only beef is that they feel entitled to it while telling whites that listening to rap is appropriating black culture. It only ever flows in one direction with the left.
"White" is a term racists use to either erase or lay claim to thousands of individual cultures.
What culture does a German from the late 1700s to early 1800s (Beethoven) have in common with a Russian born 100 years later (Rachmaninoff), or an Italian composer born 100 years earlier (Caldara)?
For that matter, who has more "culture" in common, a white orchestral violin player from an upper middle class family and a white rapper from the trailer park, or that same violin player and a black violin player from a similar socio-economic background?
There is no hard tie between culture and skin color. It's just ridiculous to say that all Irish, Italian, Russian, Polish, Armenian, German, Swedish, Australian, and Canadian people share a culture. Much less to say that they all have equal claim to the individual musical expressions of people with no relation to them that lived hundreds of years ago in countries thousands of miles away from their own just because of some vague physical similarity.
Anyone who's ever played an instrument or a sport has been told that talent is not enough.
Hard work, practice AND talent is what makes greatness.
A talented person who never practices won't be great. And a person who has 0 talent and works hard might be mediocre but not great. A person of average talent and above average work ethic will probably be great. An extremely talented person with below-average work ethic will probably be good
THIS.
This exactly.
This applies to literally everything in life. You're lucky if you're talented. You're lucky if you have a high work ethic. And if you're really, really lucky, you have both.
Define talent without using ephemeral concepts.
It’s not just about practice and training. I’m a professional classical musician and I can assure you that the number of people who make a career in this field is very small compared to the people who didn’t make it. In college, we all had great equipment, access to the same teachers, and put in hours of work with rare exceptions.
The reality is that some people are just better at it than others despite effort. For me, I was good from the start and music just made sense. I worked extremely hard and I continued my work because I was seeing progress. Some people chip away at it for hours and years and NEVER get better. They pour their lives into it with nothing to show for it.
There are exceptions of course in terms of race. Most orchestras are mainly White with many Asians and very few Blacks. The auditions are blind because we need the best sounding people. No one cares what category they fall in. When you have to play with people, it’s what they bring to the table that matters. There’s nothing worse than playing with someone who can’t play in tune or has terrible rhythm. All it takes is one weak player to make an orchestra suffer, especially a wind player.
I believe it's a mistake for you to assume that all the people who didn't make it tried as hard as you do. Personally I find the very concept insulting. I feel no need to pretend that I tried just as hard at playing sports as the people who are good at it. I feel no need to spare the feelings of those who HAVEN'T worked as hard as I on something by allowing them to claim that my abilities are the result of winning some specious genetic lottery rather than as the result of me just working harder to get good at it than they did.
You can't compare someone who spends all of their free time living and breathing their instrument to someone who simply spends the same amount of time in the practice room or at rehearsal but doesn't give it a second thought outside of that time.
I have never met someone who was better than me at anything that they didn't also clearly try harder at. I'm comfortable admitting that I'm not as good because I didn't work as hard. Crying about "talent" is just a form of sour grapes for those who have decided they don't want to work harder than they already are.
If someone works hard enough to get to the point of comparing a second chair to a first chair in a highly paid professional orchestra, sure small genetic advantages may begin to eclipse level of effort, but when it comes to a college student dropping out of orchestra vs one who sticks with it, that IS a separation in level of effort, and frankly, I'd be curious to see which student spent more time drinking at parties and which spent more time playing their instrument alone in their room while no one was watching.
https://www.sciencealert.com/high-iq-correlation-lower-neuron-dendrite-density
I've known far too many stupid musicians to believe IQ is germane to the topic at hand.