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Patriot6969 5 points ago +6 / -1

Yes but music is also a cultural expression and has an origin, traditional history and performance discipline. Classical music is "white" music regardless of who plays it. My only beef is that they feel entitled to it while telling whites that listening to rap is appropriating black culture. It only ever flows in one direction with the left.

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aparition42 -1 points ago +4 / -5

"White" is a term racists use to either erase or lay claim to thousands of individual cultures.

What culture does a German from the late 1700s to early 1800s (Beethoven) have in common with a Russian born 100 years later (Rachmaninoff), or an Italian composer born 100 years earlier (Caldara)?

For that matter, who has more "culture" in common, a white orchestral violin player from an upper middle class family and a white rapper from the trailer park, or that same violin player and a black violin player from a similar socio-economic background?

There is no hard tie between culture and skin color. It's just ridiculous to say that all Irish, Italian, Russian, Polish, Armenian, German, Swedish, Australian, and Canadian people share a culture. Much less to say that they all have equal claim to the individual musical expressions of people with no relation to them that lived hundreds of years ago in countries thousands of miles away from their own just because of some vague physical similarity.

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Indefatigable_Winner 4 points ago +4 / -0

Ah, but those European composers DO share a culture, a musical one. It may not be Whiteness, but it is definitely musical. What does Beethoven have to do with Rachmaninov? LOL, everything. Beethoven affected all music written after him.

There is a definite, undeniable, lineage of shared musical culture that weaves its way from the earliest known music to the music of today. What is usually considered the best and highest form of music is a derivative of European culture. There certainly have been composers of other races, but they have jumped on this European musical culture train to express their ideas.

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aparition42 -3 points ago +2 / -5

You're just espousing opinions as fact. What's considered the "best" music by the most pale-skinned people is crap like Justin Bieber.

To say that all music from the majority of the entire continent of Europe over the course of several hundred years represents a singular culture is just a very pompous, faux-intellectual way of saying "all white people are the same".

Many notable composers of orchestral music never heard Beethoven. It wasn't like today when a single artist can easily be heard by the entire world. Many works have had to be altered from their original forms because different areas and eras didn't even use the same temperament much less the same instrumentation and layout. Modern orchestral music has been homogenized for convenience giving the false impression of greater similarity than actually existed in the original works.

We're talking about thousands of disparate groups that didn't speak the same languages, practice the same religions, and were often at war with one another. To call all of that one "European culture" erases history and cultures rather than preserves them.

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Indefatigable_Winner 1 point ago +1 / -0

Name ONE notable composer of orchestral music after Beethoven who had never heard of him. You can’t.

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Patriot6969 0 points ago +1 / -1

Its not ridiculous to say European heritage or Western heritage nor is skin color the determining factor of racial and ethnic distinctions. You seem to have a naive view of heritage and culture which is not consistent with conventional views.

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aparition42 1 point ago +1 / -0

Conventional views are exactly the problem. If the topic is history then modern reinterpretation doesn't actually change the past no matter how many people you get to agree to it. You can't just toss the individual cultures of people that didn't even speak the same language into a blender and say it's all the same just because they kind of have a vaguely similar skin tone.

Most of the people you're wrapping together under the blanket of "European heritage" were at various points in history literally killing each other over cultural differences. A significant portion of the earliest European settlers in North America came here specifically because they were being persecuted in their homelands over cultural differences.

Even under the European Union, no one in Europe would seriously make the argument that there's no cultural difference between the many different European nations. Ignoring that reality in favor of some mythical "white culture" is the practice of race baiting academicians that have more interest in denigrating anyone with pale skin than in actually understanding the intricacies of history and culture..