My wife is a medical professional. She tells me the arguments made by the sophisticated "intellectuals" she works with. I wrote this in response to their condescending arguments. I may be a deplorable, but I am not stupid and I am informed.
She does. Sometimes she comes home from work and will mention an argument they made about the disease or the wearing of masks. I will then show her facts or statistics I've researched.
Listening to negativity or incorrect information daily for hours can make someone question their position. Heck, I question my own positions. That's a requirement of being intellectually honest.
At the end of the day however, the facts and statistics do not warrant the actions taken as a free society. I know this and my wife agrees.
If it's is dangerous for me to take hcq because it is off label, then I will only use a mask that is approved and labeled to block the corona. Now please find me one. (You can't)
You are right. I didn't elaborate to that level of detail because our discussion is about a virus and I assumed referring to pathogens would be sufficient for the discussion.
Viruses are on the order of tenths of a micron in size and the N-95 designation has a specific filtration capacity rated for a specific size particle.
I should've been more specific.
the only one of these that really would be convincing to them is 'your health is your responsibility'
its the old george carlin quote - picture how stupid the average person is ... and consider that half the people are even stupider than that.
you want to trust your own personal health to those stupid people?
fuck no.
if you are actually concerned, get a real mask and protect yourself. you don't need to rely on anybody else doing anything. thta way others not wearing masks are only "hurting" themselves, and not you.
why would anybody want to trust the rest of society for their own protection. people are idiots. protect yourself.
(this is also essentially the 2a argument but you probably wouldn't want to tell a leftist that just yet, save that for another time)
Ah yes the Dunning-Kruger effect -- where people think they are smart, but in reality, they're dumb to the point where they're oblivious to the fact that they're dumb. No matter how many times you tell them they're dumb, they deny it and continue to think they're right.
The latest I've been pushed back with was "well there were these two hair stylists who tested positive for covid and because they were masks and everyone else wore masks none of their customers got the virus. "
My reply: "That is a circumstantial claim and not a scientific study"
The only thing I would change is adding quotation marks around intellectuals. These busy bodies think they are smarter than us, the wizards of smart as rush says.
However they act quite the opposite of any rational smart person would. They ignore facts and are driven by emotion or narrative.
Great point and I agree with you completely. They attempt to guilt others with feelings, not facts.
Don't try to guilt me into anything. Explain to me why I should wear a mask. Show me the statistics proving the efficacy of the mask and prove that the disease is dangerous enough to justify wearing it.
If someone did these things, I'd happily wear a mask in 90 degree weather.
Otherwise, take your emotional discussion and shove it.
Oh, one more thing, I won't belittle you for choosing to wear a mask.
This is what I don't get... I really don't care if someone chooses to wear a mask. I'm not forcing people to NOT wear masks. No one is going around ripping masks off people's faces.
Forcing healthy people to wear masks, in the summer, on weak scientific grounds is wrong on so many levels.
It is wrong because it is not based in facts. The mask mandates cannot be supported by the science, so that leaves me with the only conclusion that these measures are solely political. That's not a difficult conclusion to arrive at.
When you see that statewide mask mandates are required in 20 states and 19 of those have Democrats as governors (as of the last time I checked), what other motivation for these mandates can one deduce?
Thanks for making me aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I just looked it up and it provides an excellent explanation for the people I refer to.
Many of the "intellectuals" are intelligent people. However, I've noticed they are not very inquisitive. Consequently, they form strong opinions with little information. Given they take pride in their intelligence, they are hesitant to have their positions challenged when presented with further data. They are quick to label others that disagree with their opinions as stupid.
My wife says her "intellectual" colleagues like to describe the non-mask wearers as the Walmart people. I find it odd that intelligent people would associate intelligence with the businesses where people choose to shop. Walmart is one of the largest retailers in the world. Of course there will be less intelligent people shopping there. There will also be very intelligent people that choose to shop at Walmart. Making the association with where one shops and intelligence is asinine. If they argued the median income of the average Walmart shopper is lower, I wouldn't challenge that.
Death rate is down to 0.3 - 0.4%, even lower than influenza.
I've long maintained that if we tested people every season for other viruses such as Influenza, Human Rhinovirus, Human Metapneumovirus to the degree people are getting tested for COVID, it would shock people to know their prevalence. The only reason this is so prevalent is that is actually getting tested. Before this, people got sick and got over it. THE. FUCKING. END.
One interesting point about the information I presented above...
I listed the death rate as 0.6% number pulled from the CDC's website from their best estimate planning scenario, Just a few weeks ago, that number was 0.4%. I find it odd that it would increase 50% in a couple of weeks, especially given the fact that deaths are down and the cases are up as the media reminds us so frequently. I don't have faith in the data from the CDC, but when making an argument, that's the go to source for the "intellectuals."
A study out of Switzerland places the death rate between 0.1% and 0.5%. and suggests that only about 20% of infections are detected which would drop the rate to BELOW 0.1%. If this holds true, we've flattened the world economy over a flu-like event. https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/
I think you are spot-on about testing for other diseases. If this level of scrutiny were given for other viruses, we would see that they are much more pervasive than currently thought. The swine flu outbreak is a great example. Retroactive studies suggest that this virus was 10 to 15 times deadlier than originally presented (different sources present different values). Here's one source: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/11/26/247379604/2009-flu-pandemic-was-10-times-more-deadly-than-previously-thought
My wife is a medical professional. She tells me the arguments made by the sophisticated "intellectuals" she works with. I wrote this in response to their condescending arguments. I may be a deplorable, but I am not stupid and I am informed.
Does she agree with what you wrote here? As a medical professional?
She does. Sometimes she comes home from work and will mention an argument they made about the disease or the wearing of masks. I will then show her facts or statistics I've researched.
Listening to negativity or incorrect information daily for hours can make someone question their position. Heck, I question my own positions. That's a requirement of being intellectually honest.
At the end of the day however, the facts and statistics do not warrant the actions taken as a free society. I know this and my wife agrees.
Amen brother. Got to stop this BS now before it’s too late.
Wow, the words in this are as if I had written it myself.
Maybe we're related?
We’re all related.
Three-shay pede.
If it's is dangerous for me to take hcq because it is off label, then I will only use a mask that is approved and labeled to block the corona. Now please find me one. (You can't)
Exactly. N-95 mask are named as such because they block 95% of pathogens.
Plus they must be fitted properly to achieve this level of protection. My wife has to have her N-95 mask checked for fitment annually.
A cloth mask I believe is around 20% effective.
I'm sorry, but this is not the reason for their nomenclature.
95% of particles under .3 microns is the meaning behind the 95.
FWIW, this is not the highest level.
Also, masks don't protect the mucus membrane known as the fucking eyeball. Which is another vector for infection.
You are right. I didn't elaborate to that level of detail because our discussion is about a virus and I assumed referring to pathogens would be sufficient for the discussion. Viruses are on the order of tenths of a micron in size and the N-95 designation has a specific filtration capacity rated for a specific size particle. I should've been more specific.
the only one of these that really would be convincing to them is 'your health is your responsibility'
its the old george carlin quote - picture how stupid the average person is ... and consider that half the people are even stupider than that.
you want to trust your own personal health to those stupid people?
fuck no.
if you are actually concerned, get a real mask and protect yourself. you don't need to rely on anybody else doing anything. thta way others not wearing masks are only "hurting" themselves, and not you.
why would anybody want to trust the rest of society for their own protection. people are idiots. protect yourself.
(this is also essentially the 2a argument but you probably wouldn't want to tell a leftist that just yet, save that for another time)
This is an excellent quote and very applicable to this situation!
You inspired me to make a meme... https://thedonald.win/p/GIukNYKn/george-carlin-on-wearing-masks/c/
Ah yes the Dunning-Kruger effect -- where people think they are smart, but in reality, they're dumb to the point where they're oblivious to the fact that they're dumb. No matter how many times you tell them they're dumb, they deny it and continue to think they're right.
Relevant quote... "Stop deceiving yourselves. If you think you are wise by this world’s standards, you need to become a fool to be truly wise."
The three sources in an easily shareable format:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/covid-19-faq.html#cloth-face-coverings
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm
Cloth face coverings:
** Will not protect the wearer against airborne transmissible infectious agents due to loose fit and lack of seal or inadequate filtration. **
Avoid touching your face. Wash your hands frequently. Masks are garbage.
Thank you for making the links easily accessible.
The latest I've been pushed back with was "well there were these two hair stylists who tested positive for covid and because they were masks and everyone else wore masks none of their customers got the virus. "
My reply: "That is a circumstantial claim and not a scientific study"
It's even worse than that, if you actually read what CDC published. They don't even know that none of the customers got it from the hair stylists.
Excellent reply.
I'm not trying to explain why I'm right.
I'm trying to explain that their positions are based on feelings and not in fact.
I realize however that a wise man doesn't require advice and a fool won't take it.
The only thing I would change is adding quotation marks around intellectuals. These busy bodies think they are smarter than us, the wizards of smart as rush says.
However they act quite the opposite of any rational smart person would. They ignore facts and are driven by emotion or narrative.
Great point and I agree with you completely. They attempt to guilt others with feelings, not facts.
Don't try to guilt me into anything. Explain to me why I should wear a mask. Show me the statistics proving the efficacy of the mask and prove that the disease is dangerous enough to justify wearing it.
If someone did these things, I'd happily wear a mask in 90 degree weather.
Otherwise, take your emotional discussion and shove it.
Oh, one more thing, I won't belittle you for choosing to wear a mask.
This is what I don't get... I really don't care if someone chooses to wear a mask. I'm not forcing people to NOT wear masks. No one is going around ripping masks off people's faces.
Forcing healthy people to wear masks, in the summer, on weak scientific grounds is wrong on so many levels.
It is wrong because it is not based in facts. The mask mandates cannot be supported by the science, so that leaves me with the only conclusion that these measures are solely political. That's not a difficult conclusion to arrive at.
When you see that statewide mask mandates are required in 20 states and 19 of those have Democrats as governors (as of the last time I checked), what other motivation for these mandates can one deduce?
You know what I use instead of "intellectuals"? I use "Fine examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect".
Thanks for making me aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I just looked it up and it provides an excellent explanation for the people I refer to.
Many of the "intellectuals" are intelligent people. However, I've noticed they are not very inquisitive. Consequently, they form strong opinions with little information. Given they take pride in their intelligence, they are hesitant to have their positions challenged when presented with further data. They are quick to label others that disagree with their opinions as stupid.
My wife says her "intellectual" colleagues like to describe the non-mask wearers as the Walmart people. I find it odd that intelligent people would associate intelligence with the businesses where people choose to shop. Walmart is one of the largest retailers in the world. Of course there will be less intelligent people shopping there. There will also be very intelligent people that choose to shop at Walmart. Making the association with where one shops and intelligence is asinine. If they argued the median income of the average Walmart shopper is lower, I wouldn't challenge that.
Game. Set. Match.
Death rate is down to 0.3 - 0.4%, even lower than influenza.
I've long maintained that if we tested people every season for other viruses such as Influenza, Human Rhinovirus, Human Metapneumovirus to the degree people are getting tested for COVID, it would shock people to know their prevalence. The only reason this is so prevalent is that is actually getting tested. Before this, people got sick and got over it. THE. FUCKING. END.
One interesting point about the information I presented above...
I listed the death rate as 0.6% number pulled from the CDC's website from their best estimate planning scenario, Just a few weeks ago, that number was 0.4%. I find it odd that it would increase 50% in a couple of weeks, especially given the fact that deaths are down and the cases are up as the media reminds us so frequently. I don't have faith in the data from the CDC, but when making an argument, that's the go to source for the "intellectuals."
A study out of Switzerland places the death rate between 0.1% and 0.5%. and suggests that only about 20% of infections are detected which would drop the rate to BELOW 0.1%. If this holds true, we've flattened the world economy over a flu-like event. https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/
I think you are spot-on about testing for other diseases. If this level of scrutiny were given for other viruses, we would see that they are much more pervasive than currently thought. The swine flu outbreak is a great example. Retroactive studies suggest that this virus was 10 to 15 times deadlier than originally presented (different sources present different values). Here's one source: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/11/26/247379604/2009-flu-pandemic-was-10-times-more-deadly-than-previously-thought
Conclusive Proof — Masks Do Not Inhibit Viral Spread Conclusive Proof — Masks Do Not Inhibit Viral Spread
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/19/are-face-masks-effective.aspx
thank you, will spread it like a bush fire in august