Local law enforcement CAN'T handle this, they are told NOT TO. We CANNOT allow cities to be destroyed all because the rioters happen to be US citizens.
Yea I agree local should do it.. but they aren’t. If they’re not doing and law enforcement then theyre forcing the feds to do it for them. Demodummies want to disband police, but the right thing is that SOMEONE has to protect the innocent people in these shitholes
But also keep in mind that this isn't Feds just roaming the whole city and detaining people.
They are defending the Federal Courthouse and the immediate grounds.
Instead of just rushing out and attacking the mob en masse, individual offenders are being tagged for later pick up and processing.
This lessens the chances of things getting out of hand (and making Trump look like the "Hitler" they want him to be) because the interactions are dramatically reduced because the perp may be picked up at some point after the crowd has dispersed not realizing that they have been under surveillance.
Usually when the local LE's attempted to detain (when they actually tried), they'd do so with the active mob all around and the cops would get swarmed.
The Feds strategy negates that quite a bit. The downside is that it gives the thugs an initial portrayal of innocence because they are being detained after the commission of the crime while departing the scene and going home, etc.
Isn’t it the patriot act that gives them the authority to do this now that Antifa has been designated a terrorist org? I’m conflicted because the cops are being told to stand down and people’s lives are being ruined or lost due to the Antifa instigated rioting and we need someone to provide repercussions for their acts but I’m also not a huge fan of the idea of assuming everyone detained by the DHS is automatically guilty. I know they are doing a job that needs to be done somehow but I don’t like the idea that another Prez could designate an innocent group as a terrorist org and detain them without warrants. I guess the answer is roll back the patriot act for something that fits the bill for domestic insurrection and funding outfits without removing anyone’s civil liberties.
Libertarianism is to the right as communism is to the left: a total pipe dream that is not compatible with our Darwinian reality. If you abdicate the levers of power out of principle, you’re merely vacating the throne for those without principle.
Exactly. This is the fallacy of the myopic libertarians. They clutch their pearls over Federal police doing the job that the locals can't or won't do, but don't seem to give a shit about all the true victims being denied their rights to life, liberty, and property by the lawless mobs. Really sad that his comprehension of the issues is limited to "gubment bad." The primary purpose of government is to secure the rights of the people. The right to go where you want and say what you want without being assaulted by Marxist thugs, the right not to have your property destroyed by them. Otherwise, it's just anarchy.
This is an issue on which I couldn't disagree with libertarians more, despite generally leaning libertarian myself. I suppose it's ethically admirable that they're this willing to stick to their principles, but the time for dogmatic adherence to principled stances is long gone. We either fight to win, or we lose.
Rand makes the assumption that we all start from the same axiomatic principles and are working within the system. Which is why libertarians, which I don't know if they even exist anymore in the true sense, are children. When the people in power are intentionally attempting to break the system, you can't rely on them to handle anything. That's what checks and balances are for, and why the feds are rounding people up.
However, this will be used against us in the future when the people in positions of federal power decide they need to impose their power on states and cities.
How stupid are you? In a free libertarian society if someone tried to deface your statue, you'd own it and not the governement, and you could just shoot them. Private Property rights. Pick up a book you brain dead incel. This graveling to the concept of government is reminisce of the GWB years. Neocons can suck my free penis
I've decided Rand Paul is too pure for this world.
He has high principles. I respect that.
But he doesn't truly understand the concept of evil. He doesn't seem to grasp that "do unto others" means also treat people the way THEY want to be treated.
If all they understand is grunts and getting bashed over the head with a club, then you might have to grunt and bash them with clubs until they understand your message.
I don't mind Rand, he's a counter balance. He gives an alternative perspective, that forces you to ask questions. There is some legitimate concern and his point of view should be examined. I surmise that it's more important to question your own bullshit as much as you question the bullshit of others. Now there were 50 of him, I might be concerned.
Yup, sometimes you gotta kill some motherfuckers who are trying to make the world objectively worse even though you value life and freedom. People who try to use your values against you need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
I would say my principles most closely align with libertarianism over republicanism, and I see no problem with this happening. This isn't federal overstepping, this is state sacrificing it's own citizens for personal gain and the feds stepping in to save the people when the state intentionally is letting it happen.
I understand his concern though, Trump won't be president forever. Imagine this power being used by Joe Biden on citizens for using the wrong pronouns, or speaking out against Islamic terror...
When I realized as a teen that my mother's democrat party was a pack of hypocrites and liars, I became a libertarian. As I matured, I realized that a truly libertarian society has as much chance as a truly communist one. My frustration over this led me to be apolitical for about 25 years, and it wasn't until Trump ran for office that I became interested. Screw the uniparty, stick to the constitution.
The concept is correct, but he fails to recognize the prerequisite to his statement has been nullified by their willingness to allow the criminal acts.
They could handle it, but they have decided not. For a man that’s been attacked multiple times, you’d think he’d be on the front lines of information. Either he doesn’t know what’s going on or he’s being thick.
At least they’re not shooting them. If my house was being attacked by a mob, and the police refused to respond, I’m going to defend it with everything I have at my disposal. How is this any different? This is a Federal Court House. Trump is right to defend it.
Absolutely. As we see now, forcing people to get along at gunpoint doesn't work long-term. And all those black people that were bussed into white areas clearly didn't prosper because of it.
It absolutely worked. 80% of America believe in MLK's dream now. The other 20% you speak of are not the consequence of President Eisenhower's actions but rather the infiltration of the public school systems by radical Marxists.
Every revolution/anti-revolution has been born of violence/gun point. When people disagree enough, violence will follow. Violence in of itself is not evil. It is a tool. Much like guns.
Attempted arson is not a peaceful protest. Physically attacking law enforcement is not freedom of speech. Destruction of property is not peaceful assembly. Criminals perpetrating these crimes are being arrested…not law abiding protestors.
Defending federal property is not the primary job of local police. Has Rand spoken up about the attacks on Washington and Jackson? It's strange that this is what makes him speak up. Rounding up antifa that have been trying to destroy the federal building in Portland.
Rand is pro-principles. And he just happens to 100% agree with his own principles 100% of the time. It's called being "consistent". So, in other words, Rand is pro-Rand.
What is Rand's goal? To make America a better place? Or to always follow his principles? Pragmatists care about the goal more than the means. Libertarians care more about the means than the goal.
Same practice of "conservatives" who never conserved anything but just kept rolling over giving ground.
I used to be a "Big L" libertarian then I became a small "L" libertarian after some LP nonsense, sometime after 2012 I started to get tired of such labels and just realized I prefer more order than chaos in my civilization and that pragmatism is far more practical and rational.
I like Rand, and his father, but Ron Paul could never do what Trump has done, Paul is too nice of a guy and would have been a Republican version of Jimmy Carter.
We needed a fighter and someone that would draw these monsters into the light so everyone could see them - Trump has done exactly that and so much more.
The DHS personnel were not unidentified - they were in uniform with badges/tags, as for vehicles, nothing says that their vehicles used to tail the perps who are about to be picked up have to be marked, that would defeat the purpose of catching the responsible agitators.
The goal here is to avoid a massacre where violence escalates, to deescalate you identify and surveil the instigators (via a number of methods and intel work) then you simply wait for them to be separated from their herd and detain them.
This is why being a hard line libertarian is retarded. Nobody is playing by any rules anymore. If you're still playing by some kind of rules, you are LOSING! Which the Republicans always are.
Godammit, this is why the Democrats are able to cause so much trouble. They always stand united in their destruction not caring about right or wrong, only that they get what they want.
In contrast, Republicans have their heads up their asses worrying about fairness and upholding values while the Dems gut this country.
There won't be any values left to uphold if we don't stand together against the evil.
This is the dumbest comment in the thread. You clearly don't know Dr. Paul. He's one of the most Patriotic and truly American people that ever lived. He's as close to a Founding Father modern times has. Get your head out of your ass.
Does anyone here even agree on what "libertarianism" is? I've always seen it used to refer to 'classical liberals', but in the last few years it seems like everyone takes it to mean 'anarcho-capitalist' and uses that to disparage the ideology as a whole. The in-fighting and purity testing among libertarians probably spurred this on but it just makes discussing ideas really frustrating.
The commies and ectreme libertarians have this arrogant illusion that an automated system can be built that will be perfect on its own without any manual intervention.
If man could create such a system, then man could have also created true intelligence and replaced his own brain with a computer program
round up all the criminals. after those thugs are done, time to get Comey, Clinton's, Soros, Obama, Strzok, Page, Clapper, Brennen, McCabe, Rosenstein, Mueller, Holder, Debbie Weisserman Schultz, and the rest of the goons
Yep. Love Rand but he can sit this one out. He should be outraged that local government is too impotent to handle their business and actual innocent people are paying the price.
Locals should do it. If they don't, let 'em stew. When Trump gets involved with the Feds, they start with the Nazi BS. Walk away. Let Antifa continue to murder blacks in their CHOP and watch from afar. Don't stop your opponent from defeating themselves.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
Me too, but his argument here is divorced of the facts about the operation on the ground. Attacking Federal Property is a criminal act, Portland has had 50 days to get things under control, putting Homeland Security personnel there to counter acts of domestic terrorism is not an abuse of power.
nah, Rand is correct. We really should not be doing this. Posse Comitatus exists for a reason. It is a shame, and weird circumstance, that a city would let itself devolve in this manner but let's not continue down the George W Bush rabbit hole of authoritarianism. We should have just let that city fall to pieces, allow them to reap what they sow.
What some of you fail to realize is that if and when a liberal is elected next they will use the same force on us, whether justified or not, because the bar has been set. Slippery Slope
Should President Kennedy have sent the federal troops to the University of Alabama over the objections of the governor and local police? Was that a violation of Posse Comitatus to enforce Brown vs Board of Education?
I'm of the belief that slavery and segregation would have ended on their own without government interference. We didn't need a court ruling to understand right vs wrong and we certainly didn't need to send troops. Its a retarded concept that you can legislate morality. and its even more retarded to then force it.
Should King George have sent troops to enforce his Stamp Act Tax? Guess not.
Is that what you would have said to Vivian Malone back then? Yeah, you have the legal right to attend that school. And it's probably wrong that you have to sit at the back of the bus and drink out of separate water foundations. But it's ok. It will eventually get better without government interference. Well, at least not federal government interference anyway.
Because my principles are more important than your individual life. I will never bend on my principles, even if it means you suffer.
Considering the backlash and the improper treating of the new students, i doubt they received any decent or increased education. Like MLK said, you have to change hearts. I'm sorry if this isn't instant.
Vivian Malone's time spent at the University of Alabama was relatively free of conflict and threats to her safety, with the exception of a spree of bombings that occurred in November 1963 by rioting whites possibly angry with the integration policy. After much deliberation between the U.S. Marshal and Katzenbach, it was decided that Malone would not be taken out of school or unenrolled because of the bombings.
Two years later, in 1965, she received a Bachelor of Arts in business management and became the first black student to graduate from the University of Alabama. She graduated with a B-plus average.
After graduation, she joined the civil rights division of the U.S. Department of Justice and served as a research analyst. While in Washington, she attended George Washington University and pursued a Master's Degree in Public Administration. She took a job as an employee relations specialist at the central office of the United States Veteran's Administration.
Malone died following a stroke at age 63 on October 13, 2005, in Atlanta, Georgia.
So she found success even though people tried to bomb her....lololol
Thats fantastic but its anecdotal and merely proves that the environment she was thrust into for the sake of virtue signalling was not safe.
I'm not pro segregation. I think its stupid and race identity in general is stupid. But, they just were not ready. Beatty was ready to start free schools and allow for segregation through tuition based schools as soon as it was passed. My point is simply that you could have allowed the state to progress towards integration without federal mandate and troop enforcement. It just would have taken longer and not resulted in bombings lmao
Rand is wrong. These are federal buildings and federal property paid for with your tax dollars. Local police are neglecting their duties and letting rioters run amok. The federal government has to step in. Personally, I wouldn't care if they called in the Reaper drones and wiped out Portland. But that's just me.
No, this is a Federal Building, Federal Government Property, usually local LE would do the job, but the Feds are entirely authorized to defend Federal Government facilities and immediate grounds.
Its blurring the lines of police enforcement and military activity. I think they should have different uniforms and we should respect Posse Comitatus. Using DHS to circumvent this is retarded.
The over militarization of police has lead us to some of these issues, arguing against that would be tough. I blame GWB and the iraq war mostly, it created a need to hand-me-down MRAPs and other military vehicles that we dont really need on our streets. There is nothing wrong with deescalation.
Most of you are begging for MPs patrolling the streets...most of you are not veterans either. Just pussies on the sidelines.
Are you arguing the Posse Comitatus Act specifically or just the vague idea that federal troops should never be deployed within US borders?
You remind me of the Roman citizens who were shocked that swords crossed the Senate floor and across the Rubicon river during the assassination of Caesar.
wtf are you talking about? No one said "leave them alone and they'll be nice" I'm saying get involved and run for office and win so they cannot. Get fucked nerd
Man, you are really out there on this one. Walrus Tooth did not accuse you of saying "they'll be nice." You constructed a strawman with that accusation. You did, however, say to leave the liberals alone to destroy federal property.
You: "We should have just let that city fall to pieces, allow them to reap what they sow."
muh precious federal building that you have no involvement with. If they burn it, we have laws for that, someone will do time for Arson. Did the stupid bitch who burned down Wendys get away with it? Nope.
You want your authoritarian dream world and you'll get it. Bush enabled Obama. This will enable the next cuck. Just wait until DHS is showing up to MAGA rallies cus we allowed this idiocy to take place. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE. WE ARE SIMPLY LIVING IN A GREAT PERIOD BECAUSE TRUMP HIJACKED THE NEOCON RUN IDIOT REPUBLICANS WHO ABANDONED THEIR LIMITED GOVERNMENT & FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES YEARS AGO. I'LL BE DAMNED IF I'M GOING TO SIT HERE AND LET YOU CHEERLEAD FOR MORE OF THE SAME PATRIOT ACT BULLSHIT. America is a free country and turning it into a police state for your own desires is ANTI AMERICAN GLOBALIST HORSE SHIT. Get fucked nerds
you think rounding them in up vans only to be denied miranda rights and civil rights is going to work out well in a court? No, all these people are going to be free to roam and will probably win law suits for unlawful detention. Stop having a small brain
2 bitches that burned police cars are facing a LOT of time. The bitch who burned down wendys is facing time. Its just not your instant justice that you crave. America has laws to deal with scum.
3 people?? That’s your validation for wanting to “play fair” with these people? I’m sure they’ll get the book thrown at them as well. I’m guessing 12 months probation and a $500 fine. THAT’LL show them. I understand and respect your idealism but that train left the station a looooong time ago. People like Paul are long on lectures about constitutionality but short on tangible, real-world solutions. That’s always the case with him. Dozens of left controlled, urban areas have been willing participants in unchecked and wanton destruction. The police are hamstrung by their own leaders and rebuked by their fellow citizens. Who will make the arrests? This destruction has not only been NOT disavowed but has been encouraged from corporate America to the classrooms. People like Paul will still be arguing about “proper channels and “rule of law” and saying that “they were on the right side of the issue” even as they’re bundled off to the mass graves. At some point you have to realize that when the enemy is playing for keeps, you better be too.
Rand is full of shit. The federal government has the absolute right and duty to protect its buildings and employees. A federal courthouse has been under assault for more than a week. What are we supposed to do? Let these lunatics burn it to the ground? Guess who has to pay for a new one? Us.
What is the underlying principle involved in publicly shaming federal officers who are rounding up antifa for attempted arson and destruction of federal property?
Local law enforcement CAN'T handle this, they are told NOT TO. We CANNOT allow cities to be destroyed all because the rioters happen to be US citizens.
Yea I agree local should do it.. but they aren’t. If they’re not doing and law enforcement then theyre forcing the feds to do it for them. Demodummies want to disband police, but the right thing is that SOMEONE has to protect the innocent people in these shitholes
But also keep in mind that this isn't Feds just roaming the whole city and detaining people.
They are defending the Federal Courthouse and the immediate grounds.
Instead of just rushing out and attacking the mob en masse, individual offenders are being tagged for later pick up and processing.
This lessens the chances of things getting out of hand (and making Trump look like the "Hitler" they want him to be) because the interactions are dramatically reduced because the perp may be picked up at some point after the crowd has dispersed not realizing that they have been under surveillance.
Usually when the local LE's attempted to detain (when they actually tried), they'd do so with the active mob all around and the cops would get swarmed.
The Feds strategy negates that quite a bit. The downside is that it gives the thugs an initial portrayal of innocence because they are being detained after the commission of the crime while departing the scene and going home, etc.
They are tracking conservatives as well make no mistake. The moment they see Republicans get angry enough to form a mob..the feds will bust in.
This is all part of the plan.
Isn’t it the patriot act that gives them the authority to do this now that Antifa has been designated a terrorist org? I’m conflicted because the cops are being told to stand down and people’s lives are being ruined or lost due to the Antifa instigated rioting and we need someone to provide repercussions for their acts but I’m also not a huge fan of the idea of assuming everyone detained by the DHS is automatically guilty. I know they are doing a job that needs to be done somehow but I don’t like the idea that another Prez could designate an innocent group as a terrorist org and detain them without warrants. I guess the answer is roll back the patriot act for something that fits the bill for domestic insurrection and funding outfits without removing anyone’s civil liberties.
Libertarianism is to the right as communism is to the left: a total pipe dream that is not compatible with our Darwinian reality. If you abdicate the levers of power out of principle, you’re merely vacating the throne for those without principle.
Exactly. This is the fallacy of the myopic libertarians. They clutch their pearls over Federal police doing the job that the locals can't or won't do, but don't seem to give a shit about all the true victims being denied their rights to life, liberty, and property by the lawless mobs. Really sad that his comprehension of the issues is limited to "gubment bad." The primary purpose of government is to secure the rights of the people. The right to go where you want and say what you want without being assaulted by Marxist thugs, the right not to have your property destroyed by them. Otherwise, it's just anarchy.
http://stonetoss.com/comic/use-it-or-lose-it/
This is an issue on which I couldn't disagree with libertarians more, despite generally leaning libertarian myself. I suppose it's ethically admirable that they're this willing to stick to their principles, but the time for dogmatic adherence to principled stances is long gone. We either fight to win, or we lose.
This is what the left wants. A federal police force which they can co-opt.
Rand makes the assumption that we all start from the same axiomatic principles and are working within the system. Which is why libertarians, which I don't know if they even exist anymore in the true sense, are children. When the people in power are intentionally attempting to break the system, you can't rely on them to handle anything. That's what checks and balances are for, and why the feds are rounding people up.
However, this will be used against us in the future when the people in positions of federal power decide they need to impose their power on states and cities.
Seriously, libertarianism is for people who think reality resembles a board game where we all play by the rules.
The best issue I've seen brought up with it is that it won't take long for an ambitious person to fill the power vacuum.
But Muh free market security firms!
How stupid are you? In a free libertarian society if someone tried to deface your statue, you'd own it and not the governement, and you could just shoot them. Private Property rights. Pick up a book you brain dead incel. This graveling to the concept of government is reminisce of the GWB years. Neocons can suck my free penis
How about when 40 people with guns come and tear your statue down. Will your libertarian neighbors do anything about it?
That wouldn't happen, because I'd kill them all. Private Property.
If you didn't automatically go to that spot in your mind when you asked that question then you are truly a pussy.
I've decided Rand Paul is too pure for this world.
He has high principles. I respect that.
But he doesn't truly understand the concept of evil. He doesn't seem to grasp that "do unto others" means also treat people the way THEY want to be treated.
If all they understand is grunts and getting bashed over the head with a club, then you might have to grunt and bash them with clubs until they understand your message.
We are NOT all the same.
I don't mind Rand, he's a counter balance. He gives an alternative perspective, that forces you to ask questions. There is some legitimate concern and his point of view should be examined. I surmise that it's more important to question your own bullshit as much as you question the bullshit of others. Now there were 50 of him, I might be concerned.
Yup, sometimes you gotta kill some motherfuckers who are trying to make the world objectively worse even though you value life and freedom. People who try to use your values against you need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
I would say my principles most closely align with libertarianism over republicanism, and I see no problem with this happening. This isn't federal overstepping, this is state sacrificing it's own citizens for personal gain and the feds stepping in to save the people when the state intentionally is letting it happen.
I understand his concern though, Trump won't be president forever. Imagine this power being used by Joe Biden on citizens for using the wrong pronouns, or speaking out against Islamic terror...
When I realized as a teen that my mother's democrat party was a pack of hypocrites and liars, I became a libertarian. As I matured, I realized that a truly libertarian society has as much chance as a truly communist one. My frustration over this led me to be apolitical for about 25 years, and it wasn't until Trump ran for office that I became interested. Screw the uniparty, stick to the constitution.
The concept is correct, but he fails to recognize the prerequisite to his statement has been nullified by their willingness to allow the criminal acts.
They could handle it, but they have decided not. For a man that’s been attacked multiple times, you’d think he’d be on the front lines of information. Either he doesn’t know what’s going on or he’s being thick.
They have decided not to handle it because they want to secede as a communist state.
They want to create chaos and disorder intentionally, not let anyone fix it, create their own militias.
By then, when the feds move in, they can claim they are under attack by an invading army.
Pelosi is already pushing that narrative.
Remember they have pledged allegiance to a foreign superstate, the NWO. Global governance. NOT to our constitution.
These traitors must be brought to heel.
Quick, fast, and in a hurry.
At least they’re not shooting them. If my house was being attacked by a mob, and the police refused to respond, I’m going to defend it with everything I have at my disposal. How is this any different? This is a Federal Court House. Trump is right to defend it.
I'm starving for it
agreed. id never vote for Rand for president.
And there was no need to federal troops to walk those black girls to school in Alabama and Arkansas in the 1950s. Amiright, Rand?
Absolutely. As we see now, forcing people to get along at gunpoint doesn't work long-term. And all those black people that were bussed into white areas clearly didn't prosper because of it.
It absolutely worked. 80% of America believe in MLK's dream now. The other 20% you speak of are not the consequence of President Eisenhower's actions but rather the infiltration of the public school systems by radical Marxists.
Every revolution/anti-revolution has been born of violence/gun point. When people disagree enough, violence will follow. Violence in of itself is not evil. It is a tool. Much like guns.
Well dummy, if local LEO won’t/can’t then wtf are we supposed to do?
I agree with him on principle. He doesn't think the federal government should too much power.
The problem is that local government has gone completely rogue in these areas, so what choice do we really have?
Chad Sec vs Virgin Senator
I tend to agree, live and let live only works up until the point the hyenas start attacking.
What was Rand's stated objection to voting against The Wall? So that future administration can't abuse the National Emergencies Act?
Rand fans, what has Rand done since then to achieve his stated principle? Has he introduced any legislation? Spoke out about the NEA?
Defending federal property is not the primary job of local police. Has Rand spoken up about the attacks on Washington and Jackson? It's strange that this is what makes him speak up. Rounding up antifa that have been trying to destroy the federal building in Portland.
Rand is always right and pro-America, until things really count and then he bitches out.
Rand is pro-principles. And he just happens to 100% agree with his own principles 100% of the time. It's called being "consistent". So, in other words, Rand is pro-Rand.
What is Rand's goal? To make America a better place? Or to always follow his principles? Pragmatists care about the goal more than the means. Libertarians care more about the means than the goal.
Pragmatism > Libertarianism
Same practice of "conservatives" who never conserved anything but just kept rolling over giving ground.
I used to be a "Big L" libertarian then I became a small "L" libertarian after some LP nonsense, sometime after 2012 I started to get tired of such labels and just realized I prefer more order than chaos in my civilization and that pragmatism is far more practical and rational.
I like Rand, and his father, but Ron Paul could never do what Trump has done, Paul is too nice of a guy and would have been a Republican version of Jimmy Carter.
We needed a fighter and someone that would draw these monsters into the light so everyone could see them - Trump has done exactly that and so much more.
The DHS personnel were not unidentified - they were in uniform with badges/tags, as for vehicles, nothing says that their vehicles used to tail the perps who are about to be picked up have to be marked, that would defeat the purpose of catching the responsible agitators.
The goal here is to avoid a massacre where violence escalates, to deescalate you identify and surveil the instigators (via a number of methods and intel work) then you simply wait for them to be separated from their herd and detain them.
Chad Wolf, after all.
Man he’s dumb sometimes
This is why being a hard line libertarian is retarded. Nobody is playing by any rules anymore. If you're still playing by some kind of rules, you are LOSING! Which the Republicans always are.
Godammit, this is why the Democrats are able to cause so much trouble. They always stand united in their destruction not caring about right or wrong, only that they get what they want.
In contrast, Republicans have their heads up their asses worrying about fairness and upholding values while the Dems gut this country.
There won't be any values left to uphold if we don't stand together against the evil.
The Apple didn't fall far from the tree, this guys father is constantly on Russian news berating America
This is the dumbest comment in the thread. You clearly don't know Dr. Paul. He's one of the most Patriotic and truly American people that ever lived. He's as close to a Founding Father modern times has. Get your head out of your ass.
So.... how much gold do you own?
They are not unidentified.
They have a patch on their shoulder identifying their agency and ID number.
https://twitter.com/DonutOperator/status/1285359501349138434
Does anyone here even agree on what "libertarianism" is? I've always seen it used to refer to 'classical liberals', but in the last few years it seems like everyone takes it to mean 'anarcho-capitalist' and uses that to disparage the ideology as a whole. The in-fighting and purity testing among libertarians probably spurred this on but it just makes discussing ideas really frustrating.
Federal property is property tax payers pay for so i hope the FEDS defend it to the death!
This man is another extreme.
The commies and ectreme libertarians have this arrogant illusion that an automated system can be built that will be perfect on its own without any manual intervention.
If man could create such a system, then man could have also created true intelligence and replaced his own brain with a computer program
round up all the criminals. after those thugs are done, time to get Comey, Clinton's, Soros, Obama, Strzok, Page, Clapper, Brennen, McCabe, Rosenstein, Mueller, Holder, Debbie Weisserman Schultz, and the rest of the goons
Didn't Lincoln already set this precedent??? Something about Sumter, a fort I think.
They are domestic terrorists. They should be rounded up and sent to GITMO.
Rand is right about 70% of the time, but the other 30%...
Yep. Love Rand but he can sit this one out. He should be outraged that local government is too impotent to handle their business and actual innocent people are paying the price.
Hey Rand, only local cops should handle LE on board military installations, amirite?!
Locals should do it. If they don't, let 'em stew. When Trump gets involved with the Feds, they start with the Nazi BS. Walk away. Let Antifa continue to murder blacks in their CHOP and watch from afar. Don't stop your opponent from defeating themselves.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
This only happens when you vote Democrat.
What happened to all my, F it, let it burn bros?
Hard times create strong men.
It’s an attack on our country though.
Don’t give them talking points, Rand. It is ALWAYS AND ONLY the job of federal LE to deal with insurrections.
Me too, but his argument here is divorced of the facts about the operation on the ground. Attacking Federal Property is a criminal act, Portland has had 50 days to get things under control, putting Homeland Security personnel there to counter acts of domestic terrorism is not an abuse of power.
nah, Rand is correct. We really should not be doing this. Posse Comitatus exists for a reason. It is a shame, and weird circumstance, that a city would let itself devolve in this manner but let's not continue down the George W Bush rabbit hole of authoritarianism. We should have just let that city fall to pieces, allow them to reap what they sow.
What some of you fail to realize is that if and when a liberal is elected next they will use the same force on us, whether justified or not, because the bar has been set. Slippery Slope
Should President Kennedy have sent the federal troops to the University of Alabama over the objections of the governor and local police? Was that a violation of Posse Comitatus to enforce Brown vs Board of Education?
Should we have let the South keep Ft. Sumter? Fucking lolbertarians.
I dunno, if your wife tries to leave you after 30 years of marriage should you hold a gun to her head to save your marriage?
I'm of the belief that slavery and segregation would have ended on their own without government interference. We didn't need a court ruling to understand right vs wrong and we certainly didn't need to send troops. Its a retarded concept that you can legislate morality. and its even more retarded to then force it.
Should King George have sent troops to enforce his Stamp Act Tax? Guess not.
Is that what you would have said to Vivian Malone back then? Yeah, you have the legal right to attend that school. And it's probably wrong that you have to sit at the back of the bus and drink out of separate water foundations. But it's ok. It will eventually get better without government interference. Well, at least not federal government interference anyway.
Because my principles are more important than your individual life. I will never bend on my principles, even if it means you suffer.
Considering the backlash and the improper treating of the new students, i doubt they received any decent or increased education. Like MLK said, you have to change hearts. I'm sorry if this isn't instant.
Vivian Malone's time spent at the University of Alabama was relatively free of conflict and threats to her safety, with the exception of a spree of bombings that occurred in November 1963 by rioting whites possibly angry with the integration policy. After much deliberation between the U.S. Marshal and Katzenbach, it was decided that Malone would not be taken out of school or unenrolled because of the bombings.
Two years later, in 1965, she received a Bachelor of Arts in business management and became the first black student to graduate from the University of Alabama. She graduated with a B-plus average.
After graduation, she joined the civil rights division of the U.S. Department of Justice and served as a research analyst. While in Washington, she attended George Washington University and pursued a Master's Degree in Public Administration. She took a job as an employee relations specialist at the central office of the United States Veteran's Administration.
Malone died following a stroke at age 63 on October 13, 2005, in Atlanta, Georgia.
So she found success even though people tried to bomb her....lololol
Thats fantastic but its anecdotal and merely proves that the environment she was thrust into for the sake of virtue signalling was not safe.
I'm not pro segregation. I think its stupid and race identity in general is stupid. But, they just were not ready. Beatty was ready to start free schools and allow for segregation through tuition based schools as soon as it was passed. My point is simply that you could have allowed the state to progress towards integration without federal mandate and troop enforcement. It just would have taken longer and not resulted in bombings lmao
Nah, you're not pro-segregation. You just like the idea of Rand's vaguely defined "principles" so much that it will make you defend even segregation.
Rand is wrong. These are federal buildings and federal property paid for with your tax dollars. Local police are neglecting their duties and letting rioters run amok. The federal government has to step in. Personally, I wouldn't care if they called in the Reaper drones and wiped out Portland. But that's just me.
No, this is a Federal Building, Federal Government Property, usually local LE would do the job, but the Feds are entirely authorized to defend Federal Government facilities and immediate grounds.
they don't need to be snatching people up in vans. Just arrest them, in uniform.
They’re in uniform? The fuck do you think those fatigues and patches are
semantics stupid, I'm suggesting normal police uniform and not BDU's. I'm a veteran, I know what a fucking uniform is.
Good god, man. Are you seriously arguing the point that they were not in the "right" uniforms?
Hey, it's okay if you wear the classic blue uniforms. But if you wear the DHS patches with army camo, that violates my principles!
Yeah I totally disagree with Mr. Americanism. I think he's off his rocker on this one. Wrong uniforms? Fuck that bullshit.
Its blurring the lines of police enforcement and military activity. I think they should have different uniforms and we should respect Posse Comitatus. Using DHS to circumvent this is retarded.
The over militarization of police has lead us to some of these issues, arguing against that would be tough. I blame GWB and the iraq war mostly, it created a need to hand-me-down MRAPs and other military vehicles that we dont really need on our streets. There is nothing wrong with deescalation.
Most of you are begging for MPs patrolling the streets...most of you are not veterans either. Just pussies on the sidelines.
Are you arguing the Posse Comitatus Act specifically or just the vague idea that federal troops should never be deployed within US borders?
You remind me of the Roman citizens who were shocked that swords crossed the Senate floor and across the Rubicon river during the assassination of Caesar.
They’re identifiable. Arguments about LEO in bdus are a different point.
They are in uniform when they pick these people up!
These antifa were witnessed attempting to set fire to the federal building!
And get mobbed?
Soros is paying good money to have Trump kill someone for the cameras, he's got all his little agitators working hard to make that happen.
And the DHS personnel ARE in Uniform, the only thing unmarked are the vehicles, and why do think that is?
wtf are you talking about? No one said "leave them alone and they'll be nice" I'm saying get involved and run for office and win so they cannot. Get fucked nerd
Man, you are really out there on this one. Walrus Tooth did not accuse you of saying "they'll be nice." You constructed a strawman with that accusation. You did, however, say to leave the liberals alone to destroy federal property.
You: "We should have just let that city fall to pieces, allow them to reap what they sow."
muh precious federal building that you have no involvement with. If they burn it, we have laws for that, someone will do time for Arson. Did the stupid bitch who burned down Wendys get away with it? Nope.
You want your authoritarian dream world and you'll get it. Bush enabled Obama. This will enable the next cuck. Just wait until DHS is showing up to MAGA rallies cus we allowed this idiocy to take place. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE. WE ARE SIMPLY LIVING IN A GREAT PERIOD BECAUSE TRUMP HIJACKED THE NEOCON RUN IDIOT REPUBLICANS WHO ABANDONED THEIR LIMITED GOVERNMENT & FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES YEARS AGO. I'LL BE DAMNED IF I'M GOING TO SIT HERE AND LET YOU CHEERLEAD FOR MORE OF THE SAME PATRIOT ACT BULLSHIT. America is a free country and turning it into a police state for your own desires is ANTI AMERICAN GLOBALIST HORSE SHIT. Get fucked nerds
you think rounding them in up vans only to be denied miranda rights and civil rights is going to work out well in a court? No, all these people are going to be free to roam and will probably win law suits for unlawful detention. Stop having a small brain
Haha, yeah. We’ve seen since June how much these “agitators” and “protestors” have really been held to account, haven’t we?
2 bitches that burned police cars are facing a LOT of time. The bitch who burned down wendys is facing time. Its just not your instant justice that you crave. America has laws to deal with scum.
3 people?? That’s your validation for wanting to “play fair” with these people? I’m sure they’ll get the book thrown at them as well. I’m guessing 12 months probation and a $500 fine. THAT’LL show them. I understand and respect your idealism but that train left the station a looooong time ago. People like Paul are long on lectures about constitutionality but short on tangible, real-world solutions. That’s always the case with him. Dozens of left controlled, urban areas have been willing participants in unchecked and wanton destruction. The police are hamstrung by their own leaders and rebuked by their fellow citizens. Who will make the arrests? This destruction has not only been NOT disavowed but has been encouraged from corporate America to the classrooms. People like Paul will still be arguing about “proper channels and “rule of law” and saying that “they were on the right side of the issue” even as they’re bundled off to the mass graves. At some point you have to realize that when the enemy is playing for keeps, you better be too.
Get involved and run for office and lose in a rigged election. Do you really think we have free and fair elections in this country?
Trump did get elected. But yeah, lets just make up reasons why we shouldn't do our part. That's American! ...
Rand is full of shit. The federal government has the absolute right and duty to protect its buildings and employees. A federal courthouse has been under assault for more than a week. What are we supposed to do? Let these lunatics burn it to the ground? Guess who has to pay for a new one? Us.
I stand with Rand.
The guy is consistent, uncompromising and truthful and its refreshing. He has never hidden his Libertarian position.
There are two schools of thought here. Let it burn, or keep it from burning so it doesn't turn into a foothold for militants.
Only time will tell but if the Patriot Act taught us anything its that once the seal is breached on abuse of power its never re-sealed.
What is the underlying principle involved in publicly shaming federal officers who are rounding up antifa for attempted arson and destruction of federal property?
we just repeat and regurgitate what was said from the top and we are good little slaves