I'm a fellow non-believer, which is the only thing I've ever been hesitant to say on this site for fear of backlash. I respect religion in general, except when it tells its followers to rape and murder (cough cough Islam.)
I believe that most Christian values really apply to all humanity regardless of faith: work hard, respect others, be good to your wife and kids, don't lie/cheat/steal, etc. To me, these are fundamental human values. If everyone followed these rules the world would be a much better place.
Sorry for the tangent, just something I've been meaning to post here for a while. Most of us atheists are not the enemy, we respect your decision to be religious and otherwise want to be left alone.
Anyway, let's get back on topic: Don Lemon is a hack who is still trying to get an airplane to disappear into his black hole.
At this point I would suggest to non-believers: which is worse? Christians trying to convert you, saying they will pray for you? At worse some hot head might say you're going to go to hell, but sticks, stones, words, bones.
Or getting doxxed/pummeled by marxists or having certain people threaten to lop your head off in the future for disbelief?
I think the fact that we are here should answer the question.
I prefer by far the Christian flair emerging in the comments over the ~language neutral~, ~non-offensive~, sterile garbage some say to virtue signal objectivity and nobility.
Also Marxists are the worst trash in humanity - find consolation in the fact that their existence is living hell, filled with dysfunction, degeneracy, nihilism and hatred. Many of them know they serve evil, or do you seriously think they come up with genital mutilation and hormone treatment for children without knowing damn well they mess up their lives as individuals over an ideology? Or how they lie every day, read these lies and pretend to believe them and virtue signal in the public over it? Or how they know damn well mask wearing is merely a virtue signal, giving the left a little Hitler salute in approval of their new fascist doctrine?
Just don't do the mistake of pitying them. On one side hell was inflicted upon them through their environment, on the other side they grew into deserving it.
Perhaps it was rhetorical for people here (although you never know who is reading). I've had plenty of self-avowed atheists/non-religious types at my former places of employment who would go off on a tirade about Christians but not say a thing about others who are a bit less meek about people disagreeing with their thing.
I remember one who got rather violent, screaming about the campus soapbox preacher -- Preacher Bill's preaching needed to be stopped immediately, a protest should happen until the college shut him down because he was triggering!!!!
And dude had a screaming fit because I brought up Preacher Bill's 1A rights and the fact that he did not have to pay attention to Preacher Bill and could walk past him, or even mock him (some did). Preacher Bill wasn't forcing him to even listen, much less agree.
So...if you happen to be lurking Darren, you spoilt little man-baby: pick your poison asshole, just be sure to pick wisely...
I think people praying for me is awesome and im not even a Christian.
What can be more positive than a person caring for another that they might not even know. Its a profound gesture of good in a world that can be so dark.
Some people don't like it, and if someone expresses a dislike of the same, then it could be seen as pestering by them -- but, my rejoinder is that it's better than getting one's neck chopped or a brick in the face.
Nancy was being a hypocrite as usual when she plays at being religious; she should probably not do that sort of thing...if Christians are correct, then she's in for an eternity of hurt, now isn't she?
I only pray for her to be handled justly on the day of judgement.
We’re all gonna be handled justly unless we ourselves turn from wickedness and follow Christ. He’s done the work for us but he won’t be crucified twice to save us from living in sin after we’ve already believed.
I believe that most Christian values really apply to all humanity regardless of faith: work hard, respect others, be good to your wife and kids, don't lie/cheat/steal, etc. To me, these are fundamental human values.
Careful here. This is the logic communists use to rationalize social programs.
These are not at all fundamental human values. In the absence of the Church's influence it should be obvious to any observer the natural tendency is towards hedonism.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're misinterpreting the word "values" for "rights." I'm talking about ethics and morality that all people should strive to uphold, not perceived entitlements that government forces upon us. It's basically what I think is "good" and I don't believe it's specific to any religion.
In either event, it is refreshing to have a meaningful discussion about this online without fear of censorship or forced unemployment. Love this site. Love you pedes.
I can't speak for wethedownvoted, but maybe his thinking along these lines. Whether hard work, respect for others, being good, don't lie/cheat/steal, etc are seen as values or rights they are not fundamental to humanity.
Early humans would have been very similar to animals in behaviors. The majority of animals are solely concerned with the continuation of their genetics at nearly any cost. The strongest survive and procreate; the rest be damned. We as a species grew away from that in large part because of religions, and a more intelligent person than myself could likely argue because of monotheistic religions.
One of the earliest concepts of men are created equal is from the Jewish Biblical law of an eye for an eye. It rejected the otherwise widely accepted idea that a king was worth more than one of their subjects.
It depends on how how you frame universal values. I always liked the line, "Don't hurt people and don't take their stuff." Something Marxists have a huge problem with. And yes, taxation involves taking people's stuff. And something even non-believers can agree with.
I wouldn't consider Judeo-Christian values universal, since for most of human existence, humans have been pretty awful.
Plenty of saints bathed lepers. But nobody ever became a saint by taxing everybody else in order to set up a bathe the leper foundation where the would be saint skimmed 10% off the top for administrative expenses.
Except for that one guy in the bible who tried that kind of accountancy crap, he made 30 pieces of Silver for his effort, but is generally looked down upon.
I go to Reddit these days and I meet people unable to admit Elvis was talented (because he "stole" black people music, you see) but here on TheDonald.win people are having detailed discussions of universal truth. And not just statements, but rebuttals, debate, examination and specification.
And this is exactly why many Trads hold the old value that despite what modernists want to tell you, heaven is far from full. As Our Lady revealed st Fatima: “More souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”
My best recommendation would be to listen to Jordan Peterson's series on the Book of Genesis. He doesn't approach the Bible as a theist (because he's not) but rather looking at it as a repository of knowledge regarding how we look at each other, ourselves, and reality itself; done in the only way these understandings could have been articulated at the time.
I don’t think Christianity has a monopoly on ethical behavior. Nor is a profession of Christian faith (or any religion) enough to make one ethical. Respect of self evident human rights is the most important ethical stance in my opinion. I believe those I guys are natural and come the logical extrapolation of natural logical and philosophical principals. You might think that those things are made by God and Thats ok with me but for me the important part is that these truths are self evident.
It’s not difficult to disagree with because our society is still largely Christian.
If commies win they set the rules, so killing of whoever they want is what will be accepted, just like it was prior to Christ and in places around the world where Christ is rejected.
Murder, unjust killing, is universally objectively wrong. Something that all humans understand innately even if we all can’t articulate it. This speaks to a God that in some way has set this system. It’s one example, not the only.
I don’t think it really innovated as much as people think. And “thou shall not kill” really means only kill the people god wants you to kill. And people have taken the group of people god wants dead to be very open to interpretation so I’m not sure how Ground breaking that was.
This is coming from a hardcore believer, I completely understand when someone doesn't believe. A lot of terrible believers out there and a lot of people that have no idea what their holy book is actually saying. A lot of folks are exposed to people acting like jerks and quoting pure nonsense and it turns them off. I AM a believer and some of the people in my church make me crazy.
I will say it over and over. We are to NOT EXPECT non-Christians to act like us. They don't know how, however we should bring to light fellow Christians who go against what Christ taught. Remember both Jesus and Paul talk about how to do this. I think its very clear that Fellow Christians are supposed to hold OTHER Christians accountable, but NOT non-believers. That is where all the negative comes from.
So absolutely correct. Why would anybody want to be a Christian if we act like a bunch of Karen's all day and live terrible lives? Be joyful, be loving, it's fun
Last place I lived had a bunch of Karens claiming to be Christian. And they wondered why their church was dying when they drove their own pastors out with their Karenism.
Trust me, I know where you're coming from. I was brought up Christian and was a believer for a long time. Eventually I had too many questions that I couldn't answer. I don't see it as losing my faith, but finding a new one.
Anyway, I appreciate your reply and I wish you the very best!
I went through the same thing brother. I feel where you are coming from. I really didn't click untill I started reading scholarly works on the subject. There is so much doctrine out there that is just plain made up, it's hard to get past all that. Anyway, we don't have to understand it all. Love God, let him love you. The rest is just walking the path and getting better every day.
I agree about the doctrine being made up thing. It's why i try to avoid traditions and look strictly to scripture for answers on stuff like that. Do you have any examples of stuff made up? Sounds like a fun thing to learn more about.
Check out Michael Heiser on "the naked Bible podcast". I think he's an actual PHD on near east semetic religions. He's a literal expert on the beliefs and teachings of the religious cultures of the time so he can add context to teachings. Plus he's really entertaining. It's amazing how much meaning is lost because we don't know the general cultural knowledge of the people alive at the time.
Got any favorite episodes? Also i find this topic really interesting. I've been exposed to it lately through the youtube channel IslamCritiqued. That guy really knows his stuff and offers some great perspective when he talks about the old testimony, the hebrew language, and the culture. I highly recommend his biblical insights series as well as this one video on leviticus
I'm a fellow non-believer, which is the only thing I've ever been hesitant to say on this site for fear of backlash.
You shouldn't be hesitant to say that. I'm a Catholic, though the current Pope makes me question the validity of following anything he says, and I have no problem with people not believing like I do. Some of my favorite discussions are with atheists and agnostics because I can come to appreciate their views and find the weaknesses in my own.
I think one of the strongest parts of this community is the lack of group think. As long as you love America and want to see it succeed in the view of its Founders, then you'll always be welcome here.
Atheists rarely do, in spite of claiming otherwise. The usual tell-tale is the phrase "...I've read the Bible cover-to-cover, so don't you dare tell me I don't know about Xtians!" (hint: The Bible is not meant to be chronological, nor is it meant to be physical history, nor is it meant to be a lot of things that people claim it to be.)
But seriously, people have been grappling with the Trinity since it was first revealed, so I'm not too surprised that some folks tend to make it a dismissive thing...
This is just the muddying of Christianity and making it inferior to Islam. That's what you do when you suggest Christ wasn't perfect while muslims maintain the perfection of Mohammed.
Really reminds me of the period described in the book of Judges, the time period between Moses and the united monarchy under King David. Israel had turned so far from God that they had forgotten some of the most basic tenants of the covenant, such as not worshipping other gods. The Israelites literally set up shrines to local pagan deities like Asherah, Baal's consort, alongside shrines to the god of Israel, and would even offer human sacrifices to God, all thinking this would please God.
As was repeated many times in the book, "In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Sounds a lot like today - without God, everyone does what's right in their own eyes, rather than conforming their morality to an absolute standard of righteousness. We've come so far from Biblical truth that some of us have even forgotten that Jesus Christ was morally perfect.
I agree. I point this out all the time, that America has forgotten God and replaced him with Facebook, Netflix, Disney, NFL, political candidates, etc. We are no longer the Godly people we once were. We offer up our souls for hedonism thinking everything is alright because I feel good.
I just spent 20 minutes typing out a long, convoluted, boring comment trying to explain this. Excellently done, and thank you for this wonderfully simple explanation of Christ's triumph.
Yes, that guy. The one who if we even mention drawing him in public, there will be riots, which the media will breathlessly defend in hushed and reverent tones. But drawing Jesus, or for that matter Buddha or Confucius? Have at it folks.
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. - 1 John 2:18-22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
The pedophiles first 'prophesy': that the demon Allah has no father, no mother and no son.
Allah is labeled as 'the greatest deceiver' more than a dozen times in the koran.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Don Lemon invoking the name of Jesus Christ is like a vampire playing with holy water, gremlins playing in the sunlight, or Nancy Pelosi saying she loves America.
I might not be too eloquent so forgive me. Adam sinned, passing that sinful nature to everyone ever born. Hence why Jesus needed to be born of a virgin and not by sinful man. Added to this, the Jewish people had to pay for sins with animal sacrifice, because sin brings death and the payment is blood. They would only be able to offer animals without blemish, most notably male lambs without blemish. So Christ would necessarily be sinless in order to pay for the sins of mankind. It all sounds unfathomable, but that’s the logic of it.
I’m not trying to convert anyone, although it’d delight me to see people come to Jesus, but I’m just trying to give you the basics of the Christian paradigm.
Edit: We believe Jesus’ sacrifice paid once and for all, that all are sinful (even Christians sin—obviously) and we only can be made right in God’s sight by relying completely on the name of Jesus. No amount of good works will make us right with God. Good works are good though ;) they just won’t save us.
Interestingly enough, yesterday (before I knew of what Lemon said) I was watching EWTN live where they were discussing a similar topic, how many Christian clergy have been de-emphasizing the Divinity of Christ and His sacrifice on the Cross. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkjEhCVvaKQ
The Amish don't have churches, they hold bible study and church in each others homes every Sunday. They take turns preaching and rotate houses every Sunday. The book is the boss. Food for thought.
whose idea was it to put two news anchor ass-clowns on screen, let them talk to each other for 30 minutes, and call it "journalism"? I want to know, because the circus is in town, and there's an immediate opening for "mentally retarded contortionist" at the freak-show tent.
Did they really say that?? Looks like Satan's horns are showing. Father of lies indeed.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies ~ John 8:44
Alright pedes, going in;
don't taze me bro, but I get it if you do.
I was raised Extreme Protestant, couple steps short of crazy but close to it,
Esentially a zelaot from age 4 until 12 or 13. Knew I was going to be a pastor.
After my teen years and some personal issues, I never went back to church.
I'm not some religious scholar or expert but I knew enough to handle a normmie (today it's totally rusty, probably only fight a total window licker).
Even in my years in church, I never understood the divinity of Jesus.
Personally, even as a kid, I always viewed it as making the whole aspect of Christ and the sacrifice on the cross a lesser act.
If he was always destined to die, then it doesn't make it his choice, making the whole point of sacrifice ... meaningless, it's just a lamb to the slaughter.
To me, the story of a good man, maybe with some faults (you don't hear about him from age 12 - 30), giving his life for all of mankind, just seemed better spirtually, and as a whole.
Oh well, just wanted to get it out there, it's something I've struggled with for over 20 years now.
I understand the words from those two fools; but because it's them saying it, it really annoys me, because they mean it flippantly, and this is an issue that's bothered me my whole waking life.
DEUS VULT!!
If he was always destined to die, then it doesn't make it his choice, making the whole point of sacrifice
I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. He was only destined to die because he himself made that choice. God being omnipresent, can look at all time at once and decide "At this point here, I myself will have to intervene. There is no other way".
...though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped(clung to) but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. ~ Philippians 2:6-8
I understood Jesus came to Earth as God in human form. God needed to live on the ground to know how the average human lived and yes how they died. God wanted to see the struggle of his people from the ground level. A different perspective if you will. God, through Jesus, saw the hunger, saw the sickness, saw the despair of living in this world. Jesus also didn't just die of old age in his sleep. Jesus was put to death in a very painful manner, he was executed for thought crimes. Jesus got the full experience of being human including the cruelty of the mob and the failings of the human soul. Jesus was also meant to disseminate information from Heaven not just collect Intel for God. He was meant to bridge a gap between the two via information exchange.
It could only end one way Pede. Jesus had to die to complete the story. It was to prove his ultimate love for us via sacrifice as well as proving our sinful shit bag nature. Of course God always knew his son Jesus would "die" but to the son of God mortal death is but a pin prick and means nothing. To those that accept his son death is but a pin prick. God tried to show us how pointless death was when you walked with the Lord. Death is just your ticket home Fren!
The whole Trinity concept born out of the Council of Nicea was simply to satisfy religious needs and does not align with the Bible unless you make some interesting assumptions.
This is factually untrue, and can be seen by reading the writing of those who came before Nicea. In fact at Nicea the Trinity was not even part of the argument, nor was Jesus' status as "God". The argument was over weather or not he was God in the same way as the Father, or in a different lesser way.
Jesus claims to be God several times.
"Very truly I tell you...before Abraham was born, I am!" ~ John 8: 58
The Jews tried to stone him for this, because they saw he was claiming to be God. At the same time, He claimed to be separate from the Father
"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." ~ John 17: 5
in Psalm 139:16 the psalmist is talking about how God is an intimate part of conception. He starts at verse 13:
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.
Ephesians 1:4 is explained further in Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
In Psalm 82:6 God is speaking to a group, some say they are other spiritual beings (angels), others would say they were just earthly rulers. Either way, they are only called "Gods". The very next verse is about how they will die like men.
None of these are equilateral to Jesus saying that he shared glory with the Father before the creation of the world.
Since You brought up Hebrews
or to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”? And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.” But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end." ~ Hebrews 1: 5-12
Here God The Father declares that Jesus will be his son, that all the angels should worship Him (Jesus), calls Him (Jesus) Lord and God, and credits him with creation as well as saying that he will remain the same and his years will last forever.
Since you take issue with John. Here is an example from Mathew, a similar story (probably the same incident) can be found in Mark.
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. Seeing their faith, Jesus told the paralytic, “have courage, son, your sins are forgiven.” At this, some of the scribes said among themselves, “He’s blaspheming!”... ~ Matthew 9:2-3
The scribes knew that only God could forgive sins, thus they thought Jesus was blaspheming. Shortly after that Jesus refers to himself as "The Son of Man", which is a title the prophet Daniel gives to a figure in one of his visions.
... and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. ~ Daniel 7:14
The Son of Man is said to come on the clouds, something said of God elsewhere( Psalm 68:33, Psalm 104:3, Deuteronomy 33:26, Isaiah 19:1)
He is never referred to with the same words as God is referred.
Revelation 1:11: I am the first and the last.
Isaiah 44:6: I am the first, and I am the last.
Compare the appearance of Jesus in Revelation 1:12-18, with Daniel's visions of the "Ancient of Days" and "One like the Son of Man". In both, there is "One like a Son of Man". Yet when he appeared to John, he looked like the Ancient of Days who appeared to Daniel and Jesus gives himself that title throughout the gospels.
There's also Philippians 2:6:
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
You seem to be a unitarian. That is why you take issue with Jesus and the Father (and the Spirit) being separate persons and yet the same being. But the Jews in the first century and before didn't have any issues with this. They were strict monotheists but not strict unitarians. John 1:1 shows that fairly well.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
in the Greek, that last segment is "theos en ho logos" or "God was the Word". So there can be no mistake as to what's being said here.
Early Judaism understood this portrayal and its rationale. There was no sense of a violation of monotheism since either figure was God. There was no second distinct god running the cosmos. During the Second Temple period, Jewish theologians speculated on an identity for the "second" Yahweh and it was not considered unorthodox to do so. Judaism pronounced the "two powers" teaching a heresy sometime in the second century A.D. Do to the rise of Christianity and it's view of Jesus as the incarnate second Yahweh.
There is a good book called The Two Powers in Heaven by Alan Segal that explains this very well. He was an Orthodox Jew (not a christian).
Also, wanted to say this has been a very nice discussion. Thank you for having it with me.
Trying to say that he can’t cleanse you of sin and unrighteousness if he wasn’t sinless. They can’t accept Jesus with their new world order church. Especially the phase we’re in now of preaching that whites are born sinful bc of racism. These people are retarded and need to be crusaded.
They just say things until they stick. They're constantly A/B testing what they can get away with and its never ending. Once they find something that works like say BLM, they all run with it. That's the game they're playing.
Which is why it's important to focus on the players and not the game they're trying to play. Its their game, they're the ones making up the rules, don't engage in the game. It's a trap.
The Son of God was a man who obeyed perfectly God by the freedom of his will. He could have had 72000 angels and come off the cross anytime he wanted. But He did the fathers will so perfectly he could say "I and the Father are one" one in purpose The Father and his only begotten Son.
I don't know what it is, but Don Lemon's face is infuriating. I don't feel that way about other people that I don't like, and even if I didn't know anything about him, just one look would be enough. It's a primal instinct to know that he is evil.
having two degenerates speak about perfection. the only thing we require don lemon's expertise on is how to get shitfaced and make an ass out of yourself on live tv, which is also your workplace, and not have anything happen to you.
well the same group of people are trying to say Christ was a black african. The next logical step is for them to say if only he had more money for dem programs he wouldn't have raped all the roman women. He a good boy.
I can't remember the exact passage but I'm fairly certain the Bible described Christ's physical body as nothing particularly extraordinary. Which, not knowing the context of what Ms Lemon is saying, may be what she was thinking about when saying that if that's an actual quote?
Literally saying "God isn't perfect"
These people don't even understand the concept of an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent God.
I'm not a believer myself, but holy shit, these people are dumb.
I'm a fellow non-believer, which is the only thing I've ever been hesitant to say on this site for fear of backlash. I respect religion in general, except when it tells its followers to rape and murder (cough cough Islam.)
I believe that most Christian values really apply to all humanity regardless of faith: work hard, respect others, be good to your wife and kids, don't lie/cheat/steal, etc. To me, these are fundamental human values. If everyone followed these rules the world would be a much better place.
Sorry for the tangent, just something I've been meaning to post here for a while. Most of us atheists are not the enemy, we respect your decision to be religious and otherwise want to be left alone.
Anyway, let's get back on topic: Don Lemon is a hack who is still trying to get an airplane to disappear into his black hole.
You shouldn't get any backlash. You may however get a few internet missionaries trying to convert you.
At this point I would suggest to non-believers: which is worse? Christians trying to convert you, saying they will pray for you? At worse some hot head might say you're going to go to hell, but sticks, stones, words, bones. Or getting doxxed/pummeled by marxists or having certain people threaten to lop your head off in the future for disbelief?
At some point, you have to pick your poison.
I think the fact that we are here should answer the question.
I prefer by far the Christian flair emerging in the comments over the ~language neutral~, ~non-offensive~, sterile garbage some say to virtue signal objectivity and nobility.
Also Marxists are the worst trash in humanity - find consolation in the fact that their existence is living hell, filled with dysfunction, degeneracy, nihilism and hatred. Many of them know they serve evil, or do you seriously think they come up with genital mutilation and hormone treatment for children without knowing damn well they mess up their lives as individuals over an ideology? Or how they lie every day, read these lies and pretend to believe them and virtue signal in the public over it? Or how they know damn well mask wearing is merely a virtue signal, giving the left a little Hitler salute in approval of their new fascist doctrine?
Just don't do the mistake of pitying them. On one side hell was inflicted upon them through their environment, on the other side they grew into deserving it.
Perhaps it was rhetorical for people here (although you never know who is reading). I've had plenty of self-avowed atheists/non-religious types at my former places of employment who would go off on a tirade about Christians but not say a thing about others who are a bit less meek about people disagreeing with their thing.
I remember one who got rather violent, screaming about the campus soapbox preacher -- Preacher Bill's preaching needed to be stopped immediately, a protest should happen until the college shut him down because he was triggering!!!! And dude had a screaming fit because I brought up Preacher Bill's 1A rights and the fact that he did not have to pay attention to Preacher Bill and could walk past him, or even mock him (some did). Preacher Bill wasn't forcing him to even listen, much less agree.
So...if you happen to be lurking Darren, you spoilt little man-baby: pick your poison asshole, just be sure to pick wisely...
I think people praying for me is awesome and im not even a Christian.
What can be more positive than a person caring for another that they might not even know. Its a profound gesture of good in a world that can be so dark.
Some people don't like it, and if someone expresses a dislike of the same, then it could be seen as pestering by them -- but, my rejoinder is that it's better than getting one's neck chopped or a brick in the face.
Nancy was being a hypocrite as usual when she plays at being religious; she should probably not do that sort of thing...if Christians are correct, then she's in for an eternity of hurt, now isn't she? I only pray for her to be handled justly on the day of judgement.
We’re all gonna be handled justly unless we ourselves turn from wickedness and follow Christ. He’s done the work for us but he won’t be crucified twice to save us from living in sin after we’ve already believed.
I’m always down for a little proselytizing.
And nothing wrong with that. You know the truth of something important you share it. If you don't God have mercy on you.
See the take Penn Jillette, an atheist, has to say about this: https://youtu.be/6md638smQd8
I think this video is good for both atheists and Christians to watch and see this perspective.
Careful here. This is the logic communists use to rationalize social programs.
These are not at all fundamental human values. In the absence of the Church's influence it should be obvious to any observer the natural tendency is towards hedonism.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're misinterpreting the word "values" for "rights." I'm talking about ethics and morality that all people should strive to uphold, not perceived entitlements that government forces upon us. It's basically what I think is "good" and I don't believe it's specific to any religion.
In either event, it is refreshing to have a meaningful discussion about this online without fear of censorship or forced unemployment. Love this site. Love you pedes.
You’re correct in your assessment
I can't speak for wethedownvoted, but maybe his thinking along these lines. Whether hard work, respect for others, being good, don't lie/cheat/steal, etc are seen as values or rights they are not fundamental to humanity.
Early humans would have been very similar to animals in behaviors. The majority of animals are solely concerned with the continuation of their genetics at nearly any cost. The strongest survive and procreate; the rest be damned. We as a species grew away from that in large part because of religions, and a more intelligent person than myself could likely argue because of monotheistic religions.
One of the earliest concepts of men are created equal is from the Jewish Biblical law of an eye for an eye. It rejected the otherwise widely accepted idea that a king was worth more than one of their subjects.
Again this is my view specifically.
I'm a little confused. Could you please elaborate? Not trying to argue here.
OP frames Christian values as a sort of universal morality.
This is not at all the case, as is easily seen in communists who regard the entire concept of morality as subordinate to the class struggle.
Instead, they use morality to cudgel good-hearted people into supporting government programs to "help" the less fortunate.
It depends on how how you frame universal values. I always liked the line, "Don't hurt people and don't take their stuff." Something Marxists have a huge problem with. And yes, taxation involves taking people's stuff. And something even non-believers can agree with.
I wouldn't consider Judeo-Christian values universal, since for most of human existence, humans have been pretty awful.
Plenty of saints bathed lepers. But nobody ever became a saint by taxing everybody else in order to set up a bathe the leper foundation where the would be saint skimmed 10% off the top for administrative expenses.
Except for that one guy in the bible who tried that kind of accountancy crap, he made 30 pieces of Silver for his effort, but is generally looked down upon.
You ever been kissed on the cheek by God?
WTF is that supposed to mean?
You?
Old Apostle Paul would have a bone to pick with that statement per his words in Romans 2
.... R2:15 “the work of the law is written on their hearts”
TLDR Christianity clearly states the laws of God are universally known.
Known, but they're universally ignored. The point is that humans everywhere are guilty because their flesh is more powerful than that truth.
This site is so based it's ridiculous.
I go to Reddit these days and I meet people unable to admit Elvis was talented (because he "stole" black people music, you see) but here on TheDonald.win people are having detailed discussions of universal truth. And not just statements, but rebuttals, debate, examination and specification.
And this is exactly why many Trads hold the old value that despite what modernists want to tell you, heaven is far from full. As Our Lady revealed st Fatima: “More souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”
Thou shalt not steal, covet, bear false witness, murder...
My best recommendation would be to listen to Jordan Peterson's series on the Book of Genesis. He doesn't approach the Bible as a theist (because he's not) but rather looking at it as a repository of knowledge regarding how we look at each other, ourselves, and reality itself; done in the only way these understandings could have been articulated at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I3lUrrFTzkpat
I don’t think Christianity has a monopoly on ethical behavior. Nor is a profession of Christian faith (or any religion) enough to make one ethical. Respect of self evident human rights is the most important ethical stance in my opinion. I believe those I guys are natural and come the logical extrapolation of natural logical and philosophical principals. You might think that those things are made by God and Thats ok with me but for me the important part is that these truths are self evident.
"Thou shalt not kill" isn't that hard to disagree with now, but to ancient peoples it wasn't all that obvious because it was common.
IMO it's best to regard Christianity as a sort of technology. It's "inventions" included many of the concepts we regard today as "self evident".
It’s not difficult to disagree with because our society is still largely Christian.
If commies win they set the rules, so killing of whoever they want is what will be accepted, just like it was prior to Christ and in places around the world where Christ is rejected.
Murder, unjust killing, is universally objectively wrong. Something that all humans understand innately even if we all can’t articulate it. This speaks to a God that in some way has set this system. It’s one example, not the only.
I don’t think it really innovated as much as people think. And “thou shall not kill” really means only kill the people god wants you to kill. And people have taken the group of people god wants dead to be very open to interpretation so I’m not sure how Ground breaking that was.
All technologies bear the potential for misuse.
No backlash. Christians like me would love to have you join us, but it's your spiritual journey and your choice.
We'll still love you here.
And I'll love you right back!
This is beautiful.
No u!
This is coming from a hardcore believer, I completely understand when someone doesn't believe. A lot of terrible believers out there and a lot of people that have no idea what their holy book is actually saying. A lot of folks are exposed to people acting like jerks and quoting pure nonsense and it turns them off. I AM a believer and some of the people in my church make me crazy.
I will say it over and over. We are to NOT EXPECT non-Christians to act like us. They don't know how, however we should bring to light fellow Christians who go against what Christ taught. Remember both Jesus and Paul talk about how to do this. I think its very clear that Fellow Christians are supposed to hold OTHER Christians accountable, but NOT non-believers. That is where all the negative comes from.
So absolutely correct. Why would anybody want to be a Christian if we act like a bunch of Karen's all day and live terrible lives? Be joyful, be loving, it's fun
Last place I lived had a bunch of Karens claiming to be Christian. And they wondered why their church was dying when they drove their own pastors out with their Karenism.
Most Karens are of the leftism religion nowadays.
Trust me, I know where you're coming from. I was brought up Christian and was a believer for a long time. Eventually I had too many questions that I couldn't answer. I don't see it as losing my faith, but finding a new one. Anyway, I appreciate your reply and I wish you the very best!
I went through the same thing brother. I feel where you are coming from. I really didn't click untill I started reading scholarly works on the subject. There is so much doctrine out there that is just plain made up, it's hard to get past all that. Anyway, we don't have to understand it all. Love God, let him love you. The rest is just walking the path and getting better every day.
I agree about the doctrine being made up thing. It's why i try to avoid traditions and look strictly to scripture for answers on stuff like that. Do you have any examples of stuff made up? Sounds like a fun thing to learn more about.
Check out Michael Heiser on "the naked Bible podcast". I think he's an actual PHD on near east semetic religions. He's a literal expert on the beliefs and teachings of the religious cultures of the time so he can add context to teachings. Plus he's really entertaining. It's amazing how much meaning is lost because we don't know the general cultural knowledge of the people alive at the time.
Oh, he was a professor at my alma matter apparently. I never met him there but that's interesting. I'll check it out.
Got any favorite episodes? Also i find this topic really interesting. I've been exposed to it lately through the youtube channel IslamCritiqued. That guy really knows his stuff and offers some great perspective when he talks about the old testimony, the hebrew language, and the culture. I highly recommend his biblical insights series as well as this one video on leviticus
https://youtu.be/cHc0_Tvx-R8
You shouldn't be hesitant to say that. I'm a Catholic, though the current Pope makes me question the validity of following anything he says, and I have no problem with people not believing like I do. Some of my favorite discussions are with atheists and agnostics because I can come to appreciate their views and find the weaknesses in my own.
I think one of the strongest parts of this community is the lack of group think. As long as you love America and want to see it succeed in the view of its Founders, then you'll always be welcome here.
They are making satanic statements on television on purpose. It's not a misunderstanding.
This. I'm not even the most devout Christian if I'm being honest but even I know what the purpose of these statements are. It's clear as day.
That's what they literally believe. Their skewed political worldview is their god, and the actual God is far outside of that.
That's okay, pede. None of us are born believers. You've been red-pilled once, here's wishing you the biggest red-pill ever. :D
It’s ultimately where they get the balls to rename Justice as social Justice. Bc regular old righteous Justice isn’t right to them.
Or an Englishman looking for a smoke
Both of these men are huge bundles of sticks.
https://youtu.be/Zp8_FzJO458
Indelible on muh hippopotamus?
Remember when she said she needed two doors 🤣
she wanted a two door style home
No. Inedible on my triceratops.
RÉÉÉÉÉÉ HE WAS LOOKING AT IT BACKWARDS YOU DRUMPFTARD!
He clearly doesn't understand Christianity, Christ, and the whole being God thing.
Atheists rarely do, in spite of claiming otherwise. The usual tell-tale is the phrase "...I've read the Bible cover-to-cover, so don't you dare tell me I don't know about Xtians!" (hint: The Bible is not meant to be chronological, nor is it meant to be physical history, nor is it meant to be a lot of things that people claim it to be.)
But seriously, people have been grappling with the Trinity since it was first revealed, so I'm not too surprised that some folks tend to make it a dismissive thing...
This is just the muddying of Christianity and making it inferior to Islam. That's what you do when you suggest Christ wasn't perfect while muslims maintain the perfection of Mohammed.
who was a pedophile, rapist, murdering warlord.
I don't disagree with you. Hard to imagine the mental gymnastics one must contort themselves into in order to make "perfect man" = "kiddie diddler"
Really reminds me of the period described in the book of Judges, the time period between Moses and the united monarchy under King David. Israel had turned so far from God that they had forgotten some of the most basic tenants of the covenant, such as not worshipping other gods. The Israelites literally set up shrines to local pagan deities like Asherah, Baal's consort, alongside shrines to the god of Israel, and would even offer human sacrifices to God, all thinking this would please God.
As was repeated many times in the book, "In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Sounds a lot like today - without God, everyone does what's right in their own eyes, rather than conforming their morality to an absolute standard of righteousness. We've come so far from Biblical truth that some of us have even forgotten that Jesus Christ was morally perfect.
I agree. I point this out all the time, that America has forgotten God and replaced him with Facebook, Netflix, Disney, NFL, political candidates, etc. We are no longer the Godly people we once were. We offer up our souls for hedonism thinking everything is alright because I feel good.
Yes, he does. He's just evil and doing what evil does.
yes. the mocking of this segment is one of the commercials that runs on infowars
they're being retarded on purpose
anything to attack traditional America
He literally was perfect. He lived a sinless human life before ascending back to Heaven.
kHqxY LtJoS 1C13BS Jr8c wSu Eog 8iiEBnx zQqY DC9Oqkjc 4rNBwu S YsfGJpnlz 0r7aY
Now urine test them.
They're only at the gym for the communal shower.
Jesus shouldn't be a topic on CNN unless he is here to take back his shit. CNN is a disgrace to all journalism.
Well..actually Christ did experience human temptation, human lust, etc
The problem is he didn't fall to it, he proved to the devil even inside a flesh and bone, imperfect body one could rise above it
so the devil puts his plan in motion, to make Christ feel human suffering, human pain, all of human sin and ultimately human death..
3 days later, Christ rose again to eternity, the devil knowing once and for all his defeat.
If we follow the model and example Christ gave us, we too can defeat the devil here on Earth, victory in Jesus and eternal life!
I just spent 20 minutes typing out a long, convoluted, boring comment trying to explain this. Excellently done, and thank you for this wonderfully simple explanation of Christ's triumph.
It's almost like you could describe them as a den of vipers, huh?
Asps... very dangerous
I'm honestly surprised lemon didn't choke on His name
Both very valid points, have an updoot!
Now talk about Mohammed.
The child raping failed rug salesman? Not in America. We only lie about Christ and burn Christian churches here in America.
The fake prophet warlord who said the scriptures before him were also God's word and accurate, then proceeded to lie about them? That guy?
Yes, that guy. The one who if we even mention drawing him in public, there will be riots, which the media will breathlessly defend in hushed and reverent tones. But drawing Jesus, or for that matter Buddha or Confucius? Have at it folks.
for what its worth, they were sacrificing actual birthed children.
I wouldn't equate someone who takes a pill a week into pregnancy to religious fanatics performing pagan ritual
However, the description absolutely fits post term abortions in NYC, now that is some wicked, occultist garbage
Would you equate taking that pill to feeding someone a lethal dose of cyanide?
The satanic left does not get to preach about Christ
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. - 1 John 2:18-22
The pedophiles first 'prophesy': that the demon Allah has no father, no mother and no son.
Allah is labeled as 'the greatest deceiver' more than a dozen times in the koran.
John 8:44
I welcome all to draw their own conclusions.
In the Catholic faith Jesus is half man half God. He’s “without sin.” So yes. He was perfect, morons.
Not half man half God. Fully human and fully divine. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_union
He is fully man and fully God.
As other's have pointed out, this is not accurate and would, I believe, fall under the Arian heresy.
Don Lemon invoking the name of Jesus Christ is like a vampire playing with holy water, gremlins playing in the sunlight, or Nancy Pelosi saying she loves America.
I'm an atheist who isn't too familiar, but isn't this correct? The key part being on this earth
Human life going from Adam, who had the original sin, to ending with Jesus, who showed how to live without sin?
Jesus lived a life without sin, and that’s what is perfect.
I might not be too eloquent so forgive me. Adam sinned, passing that sinful nature to everyone ever born. Hence why Jesus needed to be born of a virgin and not by sinful man. Added to this, the Jewish people had to pay for sins with animal sacrifice, because sin brings death and the payment is blood. They would only be able to offer animals without blemish, most notably male lambs without blemish. So Christ would necessarily be sinless in order to pay for the sins of mankind. It all sounds unfathomable, but that’s the logic of it. I’m not trying to convert anyone, although it’d delight me to see people come to Jesus, but I’m just trying to give you the basics of the Christian paradigm. Edit: We believe Jesus’ sacrifice paid once and for all, that all are sinful (even Christians sin—obviously) and we only can be made right in God’s sight by relying completely on the name of Jesus. No amount of good works will make us right with God. Good works are good though ;) they just won’t save us.
Deus Vult!
How you got beef with Jesus?
I doubt they know/remember anything of any of the gospels.
In nomine domine!
It's nice that Lemonaid appointed himself as Jesus's spokesman, making mea culpa concessions on His behalf.
Interestingly enough, yesterday (before I knew of what Lemon said) I was watching EWTN live where they were discussing a similar topic, how many Christian clergy have been de-emphasizing the Divinity of Christ and His sacrifice on the Cross. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkjEhCVvaKQ
I say those that are in a Church like that need to go somewhere else.
I already have to homeschool to get away from these people. I wouldn't be surprised if five years down the road we have to home church.
The Amish don't have churches, they hold bible study and church in each others homes every Sunday. They take turns preaching and rotate houses every Sunday. The book is the boss. Food for thought.
Sounds pretty awesome, honestly
Every other Sunday. Lunch is also provided by the host. Talk about work tho.
My bad I forgot it was every other Sunday.
Easy to forget if you arent in amish country lol
well hopefully not. Good thing the two priests in the video are based.
whose idea was it to put two news anchor ass-clowns on screen, let them talk to each other for 30 minutes, and call it "journalism"? I want to know, because the circus is in town, and there's an immediate opening for "mentally retarded contortionist" at the freak-show tent.
It’s Crusade ‘o Clock!
It's the word admittedly that pisses me off. So arrogant.
Did they really say that?? Looks like Satan's horns are showing. Father of lies indeed.
Alright pedes, going in;
don't taze me bro, but I get it if you do.
I was raised Extreme Protestant, couple steps short of crazy but close to it,
Esentially a zelaot from age 4 until 12 or 13. Knew I was going to be a pastor.
After my teen years and some personal issues, I never went back to church.
I'm not some religious scholar or expert but I knew enough to handle a normmie (today it's totally rusty, probably only fight a total window licker).
Even in my years in church, I never understood the divinity of Jesus.
Personally, even as a kid, I always viewed it as making the whole aspect of Christ and the sacrifice on the cross a lesser act.
If he was always destined to die, then it doesn't make it his choice, making the whole point of sacrifice ... meaningless, it's just a lamb to the slaughter.
To me, the story of a good man, maybe with some faults (you don't hear about him from age 12 - 30), giving his life for all of mankind, just seemed better spirtually, and as a whole.
Oh well, just wanted to get it out there, it's something I've struggled with for over 20 years now.
I understand the words from those two fools; but because it's them saying it, it really annoys me, because they mean it flippantly, and this is an issue that's bothered me my whole waking life.
DEUS VULT!!
I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. He was only destined to die because he himself made that choice. God being omnipresent, can look at all time at once and decide "At this point here, I myself will have to intervene. There is no other way".
To save us, he had to become one of us.
I could be wrong here so Pedes can correct me.
I understood Jesus came to Earth as God in human form. God needed to live on the ground to know how the average human lived and yes how they died. God wanted to see the struggle of his people from the ground level. A different perspective if you will. God, through Jesus, saw the hunger, saw the sickness, saw the despair of living in this world. Jesus also didn't just die of old age in his sleep. Jesus was put to death in a very painful manner, he was executed for thought crimes. Jesus got the full experience of being human including the cruelty of the mob and the failings of the human soul. Jesus was also meant to disseminate information from Heaven not just collect Intel for God. He was meant to bridge a gap between the two via information exchange.
It could only end one way Pede. Jesus had to die to complete the story. It was to prove his ultimate love for us via sacrifice as well as proving our sinful shit bag nature. Of course God always knew his son Jesus would "die" but to the son of God mortal death is but a pin prick and means nothing. To those that accept his son death is but a pin prick. God tried to show us how pointless death was when you walked with the Lord. Death is just your ticket home Fren!
This is factually untrue, and can be seen by reading the writing of those who came before Nicea. In fact at Nicea the Trinity was not even part of the argument, nor was Jesus' status as "God". The argument was over weather or not he was God in the same way as the Father, or in a different lesser way.
Jesus claims to be God several times.
The Jews tried to stone him for this, because they saw he was claiming to be God. At the same time, He claimed to be separate from the Father
in Psalm 139:16 the psalmist is talking about how God is an intimate part of conception. He starts at verse 13:
Ephesians 1:4 is explained further in Ephesians 1:5
In Psalm 82:6 God is speaking to a group, some say they are other spiritual beings (angels), others would say they were just earthly rulers. Either way, they are only called "Gods". The very next verse is about how they will die like men.
None of these are equilateral to Jesus saying that he shared glory with the Father before the creation of the world.
Since You brought up Hebrews
Here God The Father declares that Jesus will be his son, that all the angels should worship Him (Jesus), calls Him (Jesus) Lord and God, and credits him with creation as well as saying that he will remain the same and his years will last forever.
Since you take issue with John. Here is an example from Mathew, a similar story (probably the same incident) can be found in Mark.
The scribes knew that only God could forgive sins, thus they thought Jesus was blaspheming. Shortly after that Jesus refers to himself as "The Son of Man", which is a title the prophet Daniel gives to a figure in one of his visions.
The Son of Man is said to come on the clouds, something said of God elsewhere( Psalm 68:33, Psalm 104:3, Deuteronomy 33:26, Isaiah 19:1)
Revelation 1:11: I am the first and the last. Isaiah 44:6: I am the first, and I am the last.
Compare the appearance of Jesus in Revelation 1:12-18, with Daniel's visions of the "Ancient of Days" and "One like the Son of Man". In both, there is "One like a Son of Man". Yet when he appeared to John, he looked like the Ancient of Days who appeared to Daniel and Jesus gives himself that title throughout the gospels.
There's also Philippians 2:6:
You seem to be a unitarian. That is why you take issue with Jesus and the Father (and the Spirit) being separate persons and yet the same being. But the Jews in the first century and before didn't have any issues with this. They were strict monotheists but not strict unitarians. John 1:1 shows that fairly well.
in the Greek, that last segment is "theos en ho logos" or "God was the Word". So there can be no mistake as to what's being said here.
Early Judaism understood this portrayal and its rationale. There was no sense of a violation of monotheism since either figure was God. There was no second distinct god running the cosmos. During the Second Temple period, Jewish theologians speculated on an identity for the "second" Yahweh and it was not considered unorthodox to do so. Judaism pronounced the "two powers" teaching a heresy sometime in the second century A.D. Do to the rise of Christianity and it's view of Jesus as the incarnate second Yahweh.
There is a good book called The Two Powers in Heaven by Alan Segal that explains this very well. He was an Orthodox Jew (not a christian).
Also, wanted to say this has been a very nice discussion. Thank you for having it with me.
Trying to say that he can’t cleanse you of sin and unrighteousness if he wasn’t sinless. They can’t accept Jesus with their new world order church. Especially the phase we’re in now of preaching that whites are born sinful bc of racism. These people are retarded and need to be crusaded.
They just say things until they stick. They're constantly A/B testing what they can get away with and its never ending. Once they find something that works like say BLM, they all run with it. That's the game they're playing.
Which is why it's important to focus on the players and not the game they're trying to play. Its their game, they're the ones making up the rules, don't engage in the game. It's a trap.
Jesus literally did in fact say he was perfect. He never sinned, not in mind or in works
John 8
“Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?“
No sarcasm I actively support a crusade against these heathens.
If Don started to tell the truth out of nowhere i would be surprised. This is just par for the course
Wait... did they really, really, double truthfully say that?
The Son of God was a man who obeyed perfectly God by the freedom of his will. He could have had 72000 angels and come off the cross anytime he wanted. But He did the fathers will so perfectly he could say "I and the Father are one" one in purpose The Father and his only begotten Son.
I think we can all be thankful that saying stupid shit isn't a valuable resource, because he would have just cornered the market.
Was that picture from when he actually said it? Even Fredo looks shocked (who is allegedly a catholic).
I don't know what it is, but Don Lemon's face is infuriating. I don't feel that way about other people that I don't like, and even if I didn't know anything about him, just one look would be enough. It's a primal instinct to know that he is evil.
Lol. That's maybe the one thing Catholics and Protestants do agree on...
having two degenerates speak about perfection. the only thing we require don lemon's expertise on is how to get shitfaced and make an ass out of yourself on live tv, which is also your workplace, and not have anything happen to you.
Reminds me of that time noted Biblical scholar (and alleged rapist) Bill Clinton misquoted the Beatitudes.
Nonbeliever here. These are dumb cunts. Im smart enough to know something created life that is far more “perfect” then a human.
This is trying to undermine the Christian idea of the trinity and the Christian faith.
I believe that faith is protected under the 1st Amendment.
well the same group of people are trying to say Christ was a black african. The next logical step is for them to say if only he had more money for dem programs he wouldn't have raped all the roman women. He a good boy.
"Admittedly"
I suppose the media's all about putting words in other people's mouths so why not Jesus?
I can't remember the exact passage but I'm fairly certain the Bible described Christ's physical body as nothing particularly extraordinary. Which, not knowing the context of what Ms Lemon is saying, may be what she was thinking about when saying that if that's an actual quote?
Everyone below has some really good points. I just like the guy in the helmet....