There's nothing worse than sharing misinformation, we hate when the left does it and I refuse to be a hypocrite, especially when it comes to advocating for life or death medication.
Holy fuck. Where the fuck have you guys been the past few months? We have known of HCQ since the first to second week of lockdowns. We have been posting studies proving its effectiveness in droves, if you are looking for the WHO or CDC approved-studies then you will NEVER get those.
This leads me to believe you guys arent real supporters and most likely shills
Shut the fuck up, I've seen the same stuff you have, I've been following this stuff for months too and I've always thought that HCQ was pretty much the cure.
I requested some solid data to share, this chart looks too good to be true and some of the responses I've received suggest that that might be the case, that doesn't mean that HCQ doesn't work.
If I caught Covid you can guarantee I'd be begging my doctor for HCQ and Zinc.
Dios mio. Stop calling anyone a shill right away. We are not on reddit anymore, discussion and VERIFICATION are a good thing, before spreading misinformation, which happens easily.
There are a ton of medications that cause "prolonged QT interval". This is the side effect they claim makes HCQ so dangerous.
Prozac, Zoloft, every antidepressant, every anti-psychotic drastically increases chances of QT interval significantly more than HCQ does.
They give anti-depressants to teenagers and even kids without a second thought. They hand this stuff out like candy and there are over 30million Americans on them last time I changed. Where's the "MUH QT INTERVAL!?!?" for that? (antidepressants are taken everyday for years, not a temporary short term like HCQ also)
Hydroxychloroquine has been approved for over 60 years. It has been approved for pregnant women. Aspirin has a long list of side effects as well.
And the thing people don't realize or aren't talking about, is doctors who have been prescribing this drug have said the side effects are almost universally with long term use. At a higher dosage than is being used for covid. People won't be taking hydroxychloroquine long term
What dose and with what regularity? All reports Ive seen saynit only takes a small amount of HCQ to carry the zinc into the cell, and not for a prolonged period of time.
Tricor will be the next big one to come out as effective against covid 19. Wait and see
Would be better to have a statistician (someone who analyzes data) over a medical doctor (someone who treats patients). First, other variables covary. Off the top of my head, the countries that restrict it are first-world, and the HCQ countries are not. First world countries may be more rigorous in how they test and classify Covid deaths. It could also be first-world countries instituted aid packages that financially incentivized hospitals to classify deaths as Covid (and that's why we see car crash victims being classified as Covid deaths if they test positive post-mortem). Then there is the combination of increased testing, the incentivization, and the fact some if these tests are notorious for false positives (giving a positive result when the person doesn't have Covid).
Then there are the randomized trials that showed somewhat discouraging results for HCQ. If the effect in the data presented in the graph above are real, then how are they using HCQ differently than in the trial studies?
Geographic location may covary as well. Vitamin d deficiency may predict severity of symptoms as the nonHCQ countries tend to be in colder climates with less sun exposure (sunlight spurs natural vitamin d on the body)
There is some evidence that HCQ would work as a preventative measure if taken with zinc as it shows some effectiveness when taken early in the illness. So it might be advisable for a vulnerable person (elderly person on poor health) to take it during and after going to an event that will expose them. However, if the person is already severely ill, then remesivir appears to be the better option as while it does have some pretty significant side effects, it does appear to reduce mortality in controlled studies.The short answer is we still don't know.
Keep in mind that none of this matters for most people as the virus has a mortality rate that is effectively zero for those under 45 and damn close to zero for those between 45 and 70. For them, the symptoms tend to range from mild to moderate (like a cold or mild flu). So, if you are in this group, get your exercise and some sun exposure and that should be all the protection you need against Covid.
I'm a data architect with a PhD in the area of automation for machine learning architectures. I hold data science and machine learning certifications. I have to be anonymous because I'm a contractor for the DoD so please don't try to figure out who I am or I will have to delete my account. Understand about all that regarding correlation not equal causation, other features in datasets having impacts, etc. But the deltas between implementation impacts are too high to be explainable by other causes, particularly when you factor in dates of policy changes and subsequent impacts.
I asked a family member who has been a pharmacist for 25 years early on if hcq was safe. She said I've been prescribing it forever, it's been off patent for 50 years... totally safe and cheap. That was enough evidence for me.
Re Italy and Spain, they didn't start using it until after most of their deaths already happened and even then it was quite restricted.
Graph linked below is a screen shot from worldometers Coronavirus sorted by number of cases descending.
I'm a data architect and a PhD with almost 40 years of experience, not a doctor. I don't need some so called scientist bribed by a drug company to tell me how to interpret what the data clearly says.
https://twitter.com/IKneeltoJesus/status/1290287722007916545?s=20
Because it had been requested in the comments.
I’m going to be the devils advocate because I’m a nurse. But most of those countries are shit holes and dictatorships.
They probably don’t have good testing capability to confirm a death +/-
Those countries are authoritarian and can force draconian lockdowns unimaginable here in the US.
Authoritarian governments tend to lie about deaths and numbers.
Iran uses hydroxychlorquine and they still have/had a bunch of deaths.
Exactly. You can't compare a Western country with the numbers produced by a shithole. Unlike in the US, in many countries chinavirus deaths are severely undercounted (especially in China). No test, no COVID-19 death.
That's because, unlike the US, most place don't give special funding based on chinavirus deaths so there's no interest in inflating the numbers.
I'm not sure if any other country is using hydroxy etc. on regular basis. I do know Italy and France tried it, but I'm not sure they use it on regular basis.
Also our side is arguing that hydroxychloroquine works only in combination with other things; that probably explains why earlier studies with it alone were not successful.
Also a lot of the countries with more reliable reporting and lower deaths tend to be those where masks are historically part of their culture.
Now, I personally have no idea if masks are a net positive or negative, but I did notice this trend when comparing countries. Like how do Japan and South Korea of such crazy low deaths? I guess it could come down to contact tracing and other more draconian measures too.
It amazes me that this pandemic has been going on for many months now and we seem to still not know even basic things. Aren't billions of dollars being poured into this? Wtf are these people doing?
I could run simple experiments to answer these questions and have conclusive results in a month at most. It's unbelievable.
Japan and South Korea are mega cucked to their government. They made people wear masks and locked everything down and people complied and stayed put. They did have really good contact tracing as well.
Which may produce low death counts in the short term, but is this really advantageous given that the virus is endemic, and everyone will eventually be exposed to it?
It amazes me that this pandemic has been going on for many months now and we seem to still not know even basic things. Aren't billions of dollars being poured into this? Wtf are these people doing?
This is what pisses me off the most, we should know fucking everything about this disease and which responses from which countries offer the best solution but they've made it their mission to distort reality and it makes me question everything.
Kind of, sort of. Japan officially cant take legal action against non-compliance at the National level, but they can leverage massive social pressure instead. Its for this reason that Japan de jure didnt shutdown, and their shutdown consisted of them asking business owners to close (which they did).
Also, mask wearing is pretty hit and miss. Humidity means they wipe the mask with their hands and then their face next. Or lower the mask and walk around. The mask situation is actually a lot less than "every one wears a mask all the time" as the narrative goes.
Also consider the pressure first world EU associated countries have from CDC and WHO to include with COVID deaths in their reporting. This is easily the largest contributor to the death count.
Another confounding variable is when the deaths occurred vs when HCQ came into use. Iran and Italy had very early outbreaks, IIRC before much of anything was known about HCQ treatment. It would be disingenuous to label those as HCQ countries unless we look only at the time frame after they started prescribing it. OTOH, India's outbreaks started very late and they have been using HCQ basically from the beginning.
Can we have some people try their hardest to honestly debunk this please? If this is accurate then I'm gonna be spreading this absolutely everywhere.
I'll also be trying to pull apart the numbers here to make sure we've got this one right.
There's nothing worse than sharing misinformation, we hate when the left does it and I refuse to be a hypocrite, especially when it comes to advocating for life or death medication.
Holy fuck. Where the fuck have you guys been the past few months? We have known of HCQ since the first to second week of lockdowns. We have been posting studies proving its effectiveness in droves, if you are looking for the WHO or CDC approved-studies then you will NEVER get those.
This leads me to believe you guys arent real supporters and most likely shills
Shut the fuck up, I've seen the same stuff you have, I've been following this stuff for months too and I've always thought that HCQ was pretty much the cure.
I requested some solid data to share, this chart looks too good to be true and some of the responses I've received suggest that that might be the case, that doesn't mean that HCQ doesn't work.
If I caught Covid you can guarantee I'd be begging my doctor for HCQ and Zinc.
Dios mio. Stop calling anyone a shill right away. We are not on reddit anymore, discussion and VERIFICATION are a good thing, before spreading misinformation, which happens easily.
Seriously. Its like everyone forgot about that crazy looking french doctor all if a sudden. Shills for sure.
My stepmother takes HCQ regularly. According to her, she needs a doctor to monitor her constantly for heart problems caused by it.
That's probably the justification the REEEEE squad is using.
There are a ton of medications that cause "prolonged QT interval". This is the side effect they claim makes HCQ so dangerous.
Prozac, Zoloft, every antidepressant, every anti-psychotic drastically increases chances of QT interval significantly more than HCQ does.
They give anti-depressants to teenagers and even kids without a second thought. They hand this stuff out like candy and there are over 30million Americans on them last time I changed. Where's the "MUH QT INTERVAL!?!?" for that? (antidepressants are taken everyday for years, not a temporary short term like HCQ also)
Hydroxychloroquine has been approved for over 60 years. It has been approved for pregnant women. Aspirin has a long list of side effects as well.
And the thing people don't realize or aren't talking about, is doctors who have been prescribing this drug have said the side effects are almost universally with long term use. At a higher dosage than is being used for covid. People won't be taking hydroxychloroquine long term
Azithromycin causes it; this is why the combination is dangerous. TBQPH I would suggest doxycycline instead.
Yeah. This is why you do ECG before prescribing and repeat it during treatment. Unless the patient has abnormal qt interval , it is given.
What dose and with what regularity? All reports Ive seen saynit only takes a small amount of HCQ to carry the zinc into the cell, and not for a prolonged period of time.
Tricor will be the next big one to come out as effective against covid 19. Wait and see
Ibuprofen will give you all sorts of problems if you use it every day too.
Not true, her eyes get monitored for retinopathy- which never occurs
Would be better to have a statistician (someone who analyzes data) over a medical doctor (someone who treats patients). First, other variables covary. Off the top of my head, the countries that restrict it are first-world, and the HCQ countries are not. First world countries may be more rigorous in how they test and classify Covid deaths. It could also be first-world countries instituted aid packages that financially incentivized hospitals to classify deaths as Covid (and that's why we see car crash victims being classified as Covid deaths if they test positive post-mortem). Then there is the combination of increased testing, the incentivization, and the fact some if these tests are notorious for false positives (giving a positive result when the person doesn't have Covid).
Then there are the randomized trials that showed somewhat discouraging results for HCQ. If the effect in the data presented in the graph above are real, then how are they using HCQ differently than in the trial studies?
Geographic location may covary as well. Vitamin d deficiency may predict severity of symptoms as the nonHCQ countries tend to be in colder climates with less sun exposure (sunlight spurs natural vitamin d on the body)
There is some evidence that HCQ would work as a preventative measure if taken with zinc as it shows some effectiveness when taken early in the illness. So it might be advisable for a vulnerable person (elderly person on poor health) to take it during and after going to an event that will expose them. However, if the person is already severely ill, then remesivir appears to be the better option as while it does have some pretty significant side effects, it does appear to reduce mortality in controlled studies.The short answer is we still don't know.
Keep in mind that none of this matters for most people as the virus has a mortality rate that is effectively zero for those under 45 and damn close to zero for those between 45 and 70. For them, the symptoms tend to range from mild to moderate (like a cold or mild flu). So, if you are in this group, get your exercise and some sun exposure and that should be all the protection you need against Covid.
I'm a data architect with a PhD in the area of automation for machine learning architectures. I hold data science and machine learning certifications. I have to be anonymous because I'm a contractor for the DoD so please don't try to figure out who I am or I will have to delete my account. Understand about all that regarding correlation not equal causation, other features in datasets having impacts, etc. But the deltas between implementation impacts are too high to be explainable by other causes, particularly when you factor in dates of policy changes and subsequent impacts.
Tons of doc Pedes have already said it.
I asked a family member who has been a pharmacist for 25 years early on if hcq was safe. She said I've been prescribing it forever, it's been off patent for 50 years... totally safe and cheap. That was enough evidence for me.
Here's info about India's use. https://m.economictimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/india-not-to-stop-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-in-mild-cases/articleshow/76416288.cms
Re Italy and Spain, they didn't start using it until after most of their deaths already happened and even then it was quite restricted.
Graph linked below is a screen shot from worldometers Coronavirus sorted by number of cases descending. I'm a data architect and a PhD with almost 40 years of experience, not a doctor. I don't need some so called scientist bribed by a drug company to tell me how to interpret what the data clearly says. https://twitter.com/IKneeltoJesus/status/1290287722007916545?s=20
Because it had been requested in the comments. I’m going to be the devils advocate because I’m a nurse. But most of those countries are shit holes and dictatorships. They probably don’t have good testing capability to confirm a death +/- Those countries are authoritarian and can force draconian lockdowns unimaginable here in the US. Authoritarian governments tend to lie about deaths and numbers. Iran uses hydroxychlorquine and they still have/had a bunch of deaths.
Exactly. You can't compare a Western country with the numbers produced by a shithole. Unlike in the US, in many countries chinavirus deaths are severely undercounted (especially in China). No test, no COVID-19 death. That's because, unlike the US, most place don't give special funding based on chinavirus deaths so there's no interest in inflating the numbers.
I'm not sure if any other country is using hydroxy etc. on regular basis. I do know Italy and France tried it, but I'm not sure they use it on regular basis.
Also our side is arguing that hydroxychloroquine works only in combination with other things; that probably explains why earlier studies with it alone were not successful.
India Has widespread use.
You know what India doesn't have a widespread use of?
Toilets.
France banded it in Jan except for Dr. Roault who’s death rate was 0.04% instead of 19%
Also a lot of the countries with more reliable reporting and lower deaths tend to be those where masks are historically part of their culture.
Now, I personally have no idea if masks are a net positive or negative, but I did notice this trend when comparing countries. Like how do Japan and South Korea of such crazy low deaths? I guess it could come down to contact tracing and other more draconian measures too.
It amazes me that this pandemic has been going on for many months now and we seem to still not know even basic things. Aren't billions of dollars being poured into this? Wtf are these people doing?
I could run simple experiments to answer these questions and have conclusive results in a month at most. It's unbelievable.
Japan and South Korea are mega cucked to their government. They made people wear masks and locked everything down and people complied and stayed put. They did have really good contact tracing as well.
Which may produce low death counts in the short term, but is this really advantageous given that the virus is endemic, and everyone will eventually be exposed to it?
This is what pisses me off the most, we should know fucking everything about this disease and which responses from which countries offer the best solution but they've made it their mission to distort reality and it makes me question everything.
Japan and Thailand use HCQ IIRC. Both have abysmally low rates of catching the commie coof.
They also are pretty authoritarian in their social distancing and quarantine and everyone wears masks.
Kind of, sort of. Japan officially cant take legal action against non-compliance at the National level, but they can leverage massive social pressure instead. Its for this reason that Japan de jure didnt shutdown, and their shutdown consisted of them asking business owners to close (which they did).
Also, mask wearing is pretty hit and miss. Humidity means they wipe the mask with their hands and then their face next. Or lower the mask and walk around. The mask situation is actually a lot less than "every one wears a mask all the time" as the narrative goes.
Good suggestion.
Also consider the pressure first world EU associated countries have from CDC and WHO to include with COVID deaths in their reporting. This is easily the largest contributor to the death count.
Bingo.
Another confounding variable is when the deaths occurred vs when HCQ came into use. Iran and Italy had very early outbreaks, IIRC before much of anything was known about HCQ treatment. It would be disingenuous to label those as HCQ countries unless we look only at the time frame after they started prescribing it. OTOH, India's outbreaks started very late and they have been using HCQ basically from the beginning.
The way I read it, it's per million people (general population), NOT per million infected.
This is right...would be really odd if it were ever by million infected.
In the news today the UK are just starting to introduce the test that gives results in 90 minutes so positives will probably rise