I'm going to collect some downvotes here and say the cop still contributed to his death. This doctor breaks it down in great detail, and I have experienced the same thing in practice as well. It doesn't fit the mold for a typical fentanyl overdose for the clinical presentation. I think the guy may have died anyway from the huge list of compounding medical issues (heart disease, anxiety from arrest sans restraint, meth, fentanyl, covid-19, and sickle cell), but the cop had endless warnings about his declining status in that position he was holding him in. That's what might put him on the legal hook here. He had ample opportunity to let up and allow him to obviously die of all those things without adding to it by pressing on him. I knew the moment he threatened bystanders with pepper spray for confronting him about not checking his pulse after he appeared to stop breathing that he was legally digging his own grave.
When an asthmatic says "I cannot breathe", they don't literally mean they are physically incapable of moving air back and forth at that very moment. They mean they are struggling to do so, and in worst instances, will lead to respiratory failure and death.
Edit: I see someone downvoted. If it was the person I am responding to, I look forward to the response. I treat patients who can't breathe all of the time. I would be the biggest asshole on earth to say, "Umm ACKTUALLY you're able to breathe by saying that" then have them die because that's how many people communicate difficulty breathing.
Asthmatic here. In a full blown asthma attack there is no way that I could yell that loudly. You know what makes you feel like you can't breathe, even though your airway isn't obstructed? Cardiac arrest.
I don't think they did. Watch both full bodycam videos that were released if you haven't already.
The officers knew he was most likely high on something due to the way he was acting. Floyd was struggling with officers for a majority of the video (not throwing punches, but not complying with their orders physically). One officer even tells Floyd that he needs to calm down before he has a heart attack. Later in the video, a few minutes before Floyd dies you can hear them mention EMS was on the way. Once one officer checks Floyd's pulse he asks another officer if they should roll him over, but the officer replies back no and something about the ambulance, and a few seconds later you hear sirens which I'm assuming was the ambulance.
Floyd was on the ground for a few minutes and you can see him stop moving and making noise for about 15 seconds before a bystander realizes and starts yelling at the cops. About 30 seconds later one of the officers checks for his pulse and shortly after that you hear sirens before the video cuts off.
I would actually argue the cops were trying to help Floyd since he was freaking out over getting into the back of the car, and once they did get him in he kicked himself out the other side. As noted above one of the officers knew the risk of a heart attack due to him being high on something and spazing out. So instead of getting him up and trying to force him back into the car they pinned him to the ground to try and get him to calm down.
Sure, this situation wasn't handled perfectly but we don't live in a perfect world. From the cops perspective you have a large guy high on drugs who has been struggling with you through most of the 18 min long encounter. Floyd states he can't breathe before anyone touches his neck, so in their mind they're probably thinking he's high and saying crazy shit. If he hadn't said I can't breathe until after the officer was kneeling on his neck then it might have held more weight, but as others have commented, if you can continue to talk then you can breathe.
I would actually put more blame on the group of bystanders that gathered and we're yelling at the cops. The original potential primary threat was Floyd, but since they had him cuffed and pinned to the floor the gathering crowd that is yelling at them becomes the potential primary threat and their primary focus. The crowd is upset and who knows if one of them is gonna decide fuck da po-po, pull a gun and start shooting. So maybe if the primary focus stayed on Floyd they could have responded to the situation better.
The big thing left unanswered is if that really was the ambulance that pulled up at the end and if the officers knew it was only seconds away after he stopped breathing. And if it wasn't the ambulance then it's important to know how they reacted.
I'm going to collect some downvotes here and say the cop still contributed to his death. This doctor breaks it down in great detail, and I have experienced the same thing in practice as well. It doesn't fit the mold for a typical fentanyl overdose for the clinical presentation. I think the guy may have died anyway from the huge list of compounding medical issues (heart disease, anxiety from arrest sans restraint, meth, fentanyl, covid-19, and sickle cell), but the cop had endless warnings about his declining status in that position he was holding him in. That's what might put him on the legal hook here. He had ample opportunity to let up and allow him to obviously die of all those things without adding to it by pressing on him. I knew the moment he threatened bystanders with pepper spray for confronting him about not checking his pulse after he appeared to stop breathing that he was legally digging his own grave.
No downvote but a counterpoint. You cannot say "I can't breathe," if you actually cannot breathe.
When an asthmatic says "I cannot breathe", they don't literally mean they are physically incapable of moving air back and forth at that very moment. They mean they are struggling to do so, and in worst instances, will lead to respiratory failure and death.
Edit: I see someone downvoted. If it was the person I am responding to, I look forward to the response. I treat patients who can't breathe all of the time. I would be the biggest asshole on earth to say, "Umm ACKTUALLY you're able to breathe by saying that" then have them die because that's how many people communicate difficulty breathing.
Asthmatic here. In a full blown asthma attack there is no way that I could yell that loudly. You know what makes you feel like you can't breathe, even though your airway isn't obstructed? Cardiac arrest.
I don't think they did. Watch both full bodycam videos that were released if you haven't already.
The officers knew he was most likely high on something due to the way he was acting. Floyd was struggling with officers for a majority of the video (not throwing punches, but not complying with their orders physically). One officer even tells Floyd that he needs to calm down before he has a heart attack. Later in the video, a few minutes before Floyd dies you can hear them mention EMS was on the way. Once one officer checks Floyd's pulse he asks another officer if they should roll him over, but the officer replies back no and something about the ambulance, and a few seconds later you hear sirens which I'm assuming was the ambulance.
Floyd was on the ground for a few minutes and you can see him stop moving and making noise for about 15 seconds before a bystander realizes and starts yelling at the cops. About 30 seconds later one of the officers checks for his pulse and shortly after that you hear sirens before the video cuts off.
I would actually argue the cops were trying to help Floyd since he was freaking out over getting into the back of the car, and once they did get him in he kicked himself out the other side. As noted above one of the officers knew the risk of a heart attack due to him being high on something and spazing out. So instead of getting him up and trying to force him back into the car they pinned him to the ground to try and get him to calm down.
Sure, this situation wasn't handled perfectly but we don't live in a perfect world. From the cops perspective you have a large guy high on drugs who has been struggling with you through most of the 18 min long encounter. Floyd states he can't breathe before anyone touches his neck, so in their mind they're probably thinking he's high and saying crazy shit. If he hadn't said I can't breathe until after the officer was kneeling on his neck then it might have held more weight, but as others have commented, if you can continue to talk then you can breathe.
I would actually put more blame on the group of bystanders that gathered and we're yelling at the cops. The original potential primary threat was Floyd, but since they had him cuffed and pinned to the floor the gathering crowd that is yelling at them becomes the potential primary threat and their primary focus. The crowd is upset and who knows if one of them is gonna decide fuck da po-po, pull a gun and start shooting. So maybe if the primary focus stayed on Floyd they could have responded to the situation better.
The big thing left unanswered is if that really was the ambulance that pulled up at the end and if the officers knew it was only seconds away after he stopped breathing. And if it wasn't the ambulance then it's important to know how they reacted.
What was he supposed to do? Let a resisting guy acting erratic get up and do whatever he wants?
"I'm not that kinda guy!"
Agree.
Even in that case though, you could never call it murder.