They were kneeling so that they could catch their breath. Outside of a few select units, most ARNG members are extremely out of shape (and they don’t chapter them out since they need to pad the books with large numbers for funding). Ever see someone take 5-6 magazines to zero a weapon? People in for 6 years who still haven’t passed an APFT or picked up their stripes? I have... at that point it dawned on me that I should have stayed AD instead of deciding to settle down and continue my service in The Guard. Needless to say, many Guardsmen (especially in more urban areas - with the exception of NY since those guys are legit) nowadays are weak, fat, and due to the fact that skills tend to degrade over time if not drilled on - essentially LARPing as soldiers.
Spez: dawwwwwww looks like I offended someone by pointing out the truth. The amount of negative counseling statements I had to hand out and smoke sessions I had to be involved with back up my claims. We had dudes who were never deployable and constantly flagged - couldn’t get rid of them.
That's a shame to hear. I wanted to join the regular ol' service ten years ago but I've got several medical issues that'd probably label me as 4F.
I'm not an idiot but I'm not an expert at anything by any means, but it sounds like Nasty Girls don't drill enough. If you're going to get into something, at least respect yourself by having a healthy respect for what you're getting into.
One of the things I absolutely cannot stand is incompetence.
I got lucky when I finished my time going to the Missouri guard. My unit had quite a few deployment experienced NCOs and the platoon I was in was just as good if not better than the active duty guys I deployed with.
Yeah it really comes down to that too. It seems that nowadays with the reality that we aren’t experiencing the level of fighting we did early on, those GWOT/OIF/OEF era soldiers are now E-6/E-7+. Years ago it was uncommon to see someone who deployed without a CIB. Nowadays it feels like seeing a CIB on a junior enlisted is a rare sight. Many deployments outside of the SOF realm are lift weights and beat off trips as opposed to combat deployments. That experience just isn’t there anymore.
Plus the mission has changed - drills seem to focus on generic don't drive drunk, don’t rape anyone, don’t be a racist modules instead of getting the Joes out there and having them practice room clearing, their battle drills, weapons familiarization. Doesn’t help that budgets look like crap for a lot of units so getting time in the field or on the range is extremely limited. I remember when the only thing my unit had going for us was EIB/EFMB train up. Let’s face it, those are by the book knowledge dumps - most of the doctrinal stuff doesn’t carry over to an actual wartime scenario besides knowing the basics.
There’s also the culture. You had a great unit with experienced guys. Not a lot of units are like that. Even the heavy hitters in the SOF world have their own issues (see quality of 19th Group vs 20th Group). Hell the scouts platoons in one of the NYARNG units would drill with the Puerto Rican’s and were an amazing unit from what I’ve seen (the units in the NYARNG are legit).
My biggest issue is training however. This is RC/NG not AD. You have folks trying to juggle a civilian life with a few days a month and a few weeks in the summer. Skills degrade if you aren’t drilled on them. There are certain training that must be completed that end up taking precedence over field time and eat up a whole weekend (month). The Joes on the ARNG side can’t have their drills extended or more often since it’s already hard enough to work and do the Guard as well. They can’t cram more training than there are hours in a day.
Also training a few days and then possibly not picking up on that module until a few months later doesn’t really make them more proficient. Take Infantry tasks for example. How many people have access to a shoot house, the weapons, a platoon of buddies who can meet up and run through room clearing over and over and over? How many people care enough to do so even if they did have access to that stuff? It’s a shame.
The shitty thing is, if your CoC isn't supportive there's not much you can do. When the military is having trouble meeting recruiting goals it's frowned on to be firing a bunch of people for "minor" offenses.
Right now I'd imagine they have no problem with recruiting goals though so you'd think it would be easier, as long as the paperwork is in order.
It sounds like you're an NCO, but your officers should have all the data they need to get rid of most of these people in the form of profile history on eProfile. A lot of times they might not even have an account or know how to use it, but it's a very effective way of getting rid of people as long as you have a supportive O-5 and O-6 in your chain of command.
Counseling statements and overweight programs can work, but it's usually too much hassle.
Other things that work are a pattern of misbehavior (a few article 15s shows this but that takes time) and serious misconduct. This is somewhat open for interpretation, which is your friend, so you can use it to get rid of people for DUIs, assault, etc.
Most of the ways to get rid of soldiers are subjective and open for interpretation intentionally, so you can get rid of the lost causes and rehabilitate people you think have a chance. They cussed out an officer? That's an easy article 15. They did it again? Do another and then boot them for patterns of misconduct. Could they beat it in court potentially? Maybe, but the UCMJ is quite harsh in its language, and most will accept a lesser discharge instead of what they might get at a court martial.
It gets harder for E-6+, but again, a pattern of medical profiles showing they're just not capable is nothing dishonorable and bleeding heart judges won't be stepping on your toes there.
Multiple profiles for the same thing, fail/pass/fail/pass APFT records are easy, already documented to get rid of people without a mountain of counseling statements. I forget the name of the training management system, but it's been in place for years now, so everyone's APFT history should be digital by now (haha). But I've literally printed that out showing a guy that just arrived to my unit failed, and had a failure before "passing" right before PCSing, and that was enough to chapter them out. So when someone sends you a shitbag 350 Private, you can use that unit's fraudulent "passing" APFT, that they forged in order to get the guy his PCS orders, against him.
I'm sure a lot is different for the guard, but these were some of the more effective methods I used to clean places up. You have too much else to worry about to try counseling Private Snuffy exactly on time every day for the rest of the year just so someone can give him a slap on the wrist.
I’ve been out for a few years at this point (was promotable to SSG by then but didn’t care to stay in - plus the only thing they could offer me to reenlist was a cheap coffee mug from teespring or whatever. My retention NCO and 1SG were both at that calling it quits stage as well) but I completely agree with you on how it should have been done.
Hell, where I came from we could just RFS them - finding out that wasn’t a thing in the Guard was a major wtf moment for me. The issue was understaffing when it came to said unit and the fact that people just didn’t seem to care. We had guys pop hot on drug tests only to be given another chance or two (apparently that has changed). Guys would get DUIs but since it wasn’t felony DUI, they got to stay. We had 6-year PFCs... flagged since they got back from OSUT who were never able to get promoted. It was a shitshow. One of the best examples was a guy just went UA (Guard AWOL) then came back a few months later as if nothing happened. Apparently he is still in. No family issues... he just kinda quit.
At times I felt like I was in that movie Heartbreak Ridge with the amount of fuckery that went on.
I didn’t let my Joes see me as checked out. I always went out of my way to make sure they were fed, were doing alright at home, had rides to drill (I’d pick up the ones who couldn’t get a ride or drive in). If a guy was struggling I’d try and find out why and work with him. Complaints were made upwards with my CoC not downwards.
We had some great dudes but it seemed that the majority of seasoned folks were on their way out and the ones who stayed were the shitbags who had nowhere else to go.
If you haven't already, try reading Catch-22. It's the most accurate portrayal of the military I've ever seen, and definitely lets you know you aren't alone in dealing with all the fuckery.
When I was in, DUIs weren't really considered a reason to get rid of someone either until the RIF. I got rid of one of our soldiers for a DUI and it was like I was being an unreasonable Nazi for doing it. A married chick fell asleep in her car offbase. She had driven onto base, fucked her ex-bf, got drunk, and tried to drive back home. We didn't even have to wait until she was convicted in local court, she was out in two weeks. Just being arrested for it was enough justification for our JAG to think we had a case for "serious misconduct", so I was fine with that. Everyone else that saw what happened knew it was time to stop fucking around. But generally it was like what you said about drug tests, DUIs, etc. It used to be an act of God to get rid of someone. Looking back on it, I think most of that was just laziness (staff, JAG, CoC), different levels of sympathy / different priorities, and a lack of knowledge on the part of the CoC though. Once you start doing it, you're like "my XO was fucking lazy." If you're organized and get your paperwork in order, that makes it easy for people to do their jobs to help you, and then things go much more smoothly. Kind of like dealing with any other bureaucratic red tape. For the times when you get pushback, if you really know someone doesn't belong, you just don't take no for an answer, dig up the relevant rules & laws, and keep pushing. If it becomes more annoying to ignore you than to do the work, people will eventually do work.
Later, when we all knew the RIF was coming I got much more support from my CoC for getting rid of shitbags, and what was once a rarity became a given. Anyone with more than two brain cells knew it'd be an across the board cut of the good and the bad, but you still had people that thought it was heartless to get rid of PFC Snuffy on his 3rd DUI because he had a wife and kids, discounting the fact that letting him stay not only hurt the unit but would also make it much more likely that PFC Joe with the same family situation and no discipline issues might also get fired. So I looked at it like I was saving 1 good soldier (well probably a 50% chance of saving someone) every time I got rid of someone bad. Having a BDE CDR that wanted to court martial every AWOL soldier was also great (JAG bitched about the paperwork that would entail, wah wah).
She's surrounded by Michiganders who will not allow Michigan to secede. The moment she tries anything like this she'll have thousands of deer hunters at her door.
As of yesterday, she wrote a new executive order that says the old orders aren't being taken seriously so state agencies including the State Police and the licensing bureaus must punish people for ignoring them.
fuck Michigan. I am so glad I moved out of that State. Any State that votes this broad in and someone like Talib, And Talib is going to win her primary also, I never want to go back and visit at all. I want nothing to do with that State. its too far gone
MI is like every other purple state. Detroit is a democrat cesspool between muslims and the auto unions. The west side is one of the most conservative areas in America. The general population loss in Detroit has helped turn things a bit more red, but 2018 had legal weed on the ballot which got the Democrats out en mass and brought this cunt in as well.
What I don't understand is where are the people with this information and why aren't they gathering to go visit her? The hypocrisy needs to be called out and marched upon or it's over.
As much as I hate this cunt I will at least acknowledge her honoring the troops and traditions. They deserve at least her modicum of respect regardless of the publicity stunt this appears to be.
And no mask. Hypocrisy much, I wonder?
They were kneeling so that they could catch their breath. Outside of a few select units, most ARNG members are extremely out of shape (and they don’t chapter them out since they need to pad the books with large numbers for funding). Ever see someone take 5-6 magazines to zero a weapon? People in for 6 years who still haven’t passed an APFT or picked up their stripes? I have... at that point it dawned on me that I should have stayed AD instead of deciding to settle down and continue my service in The Guard. Needless to say, many Guardsmen (especially in more urban areas - with the exception of NY since those guys are legit) nowadays are weak, fat, and due to the fact that skills tend to degrade over time if not drilled on - essentially LARPing as soldiers.
Spez: dawwwwwww looks like I offended someone by pointing out the truth. The amount of negative counseling statements I had to hand out and smoke sessions I had to be involved with back up my claims. We had dudes who were never deployable and constantly flagged - couldn’t get rid of them.
That's a shame to hear. I wanted to join the regular ol' service ten years ago but I've got several medical issues that'd probably label me as 4F.
I'm not an idiot but I'm not an expert at anything by any means, but it sounds like Nasty Girls don't drill enough. If you're going to get into something, at least respect yourself by having a healthy respect for what you're getting into.
One of the things I absolutely cannot stand is incompetence.
I got lucky when I finished my time going to the Missouri guard. My unit had quite a few deployment experienced NCOs and the platoon I was in was just as good if not better than the active duty guys I deployed with.
Yeah it really comes down to that too. It seems that nowadays with the reality that we aren’t experiencing the level of fighting we did early on, those GWOT/OIF/OEF era soldiers are now E-6/E-7+. Years ago it was uncommon to see someone who deployed without a CIB. Nowadays it feels like seeing a CIB on a junior enlisted is a rare sight. Many deployments outside of the SOF realm are lift weights and beat off trips as opposed to combat deployments. That experience just isn’t there anymore.
Plus the mission has changed - drills seem to focus on generic don't drive drunk, don’t rape anyone, don’t be a racist modules instead of getting the Joes out there and having them practice room clearing, their battle drills, weapons familiarization. Doesn’t help that budgets look like crap for a lot of units so getting time in the field or on the range is extremely limited. I remember when the only thing my unit had going for us was EIB/EFMB train up. Let’s face it, those are by the book knowledge dumps - most of the doctrinal stuff doesn’t carry over to an actual wartime scenario besides knowing the basics.
There’s also the culture. You had a great unit with experienced guys. Not a lot of units are like that. Even the heavy hitters in the SOF world have their own issues (see quality of 19th Group vs 20th Group). Hell the scouts platoons in one of the NYARNG units would drill with the Puerto Rican’s and were an amazing unit from what I’ve seen (the units in the NYARNG are legit).
My biggest issue is training however. This is RC/NG not AD. You have folks trying to juggle a civilian life with a few days a month and a few weeks in the summer. Skills degrade if you aren’t drilled on them. There are certain training that must be completed that end up taking precedence over field time and eat up a whole weekend (month). The Joes on the ARNG side can’t have their drills extended or more often since it’s already hard enough to work and do the Guard as well. They can’t cram more training than there are hours in a day.
Also training a few days and then possibly not picking up on that module until a few months later doesn’t really make them more proficient. Take Infantry tasks for example. How many people have access to a shoot house, the weapons, a platoon of buddies who can meet up and run through room clearing over and over and over? How many people care enough to do so even if they did have access to that stuff? It’s a shame.
The shitty thing is, if your CoC isn't supportive there's not much you can do. When the military is having trouble meeting recruiting goals it's frowned on to be firing a bunch of people for "minor" offenses.
Right now I'd imagine they have no problem with recruiting goals though so you'd think it would be easier, as long as the paperwork is in order.
It sounds like you're an NCO, but your officers should have all the data they need to get rid of most of these people in the form of profile history on eProfile. A lot of times they might not even have an account or know how to use it, but it's a very effective way of getting rid of people as long as you have a supportive O-5 and O-6 in your chain of command.
Counseling statements and overweight programs can work, but it's usually too much hassle.
Other things that work are a pattern of misbehavior (a few article 15s shows this but that takes time) and serious misconduct. This is somewhat open for interpretation, which is your friend, so you can use it to get rid of people for DUIs, assault, etc.
Most of the ways to get rid of soldiers are subjective and open for interpretation intentionally, so you can get rid of the lost causes and rehabilitate people you think have a chance. They cussed out an officer? That's an easy article 15. They did it again? Do another and then boot them for patterns of misconduct. Could they beat it in court potentially? Maybe, but the UCMJ is quite harsh in its language, and most will accept a lesser discharge instead of what they might get at a court martial.
It gets harder for E-6+, but again, a pattern of medical profiles showing they're just not capable is nothing dishonorable and bleeding heart judges won't be stepping on your toes there.
Multiple profiles for the same thing, fail/pass/fail/pass APFT records are easy, already documented to get rid of people without a mountain of counseling statements. I forget the name of the training management system, but it's been in place for years now, so everyone's APFT history should be digital by now (haha). But I've literally printed that out showing a guy that just arrived to my unit failed, and had a failure before "passing" right before PCSing, and that was enough to chapter them out. So when someone sends you a shitbag 350 Private, you can use that unit's fraudulent "passing" APFT, that they forged in order to get the guy his PCS orders, against him.
I'm sure a lot is different for the guard, but these were some of the more effective methods I used to clean places up. You have too much else to worry about to try counseling Private Snuffy exactly on time every day for the rest of the year just so someone can give him a slap on the wrist.
I’ve been out for a few years at this point (was promotable to SSG by then but didn’t care to stay in - plus the only thing they could offer me to reenlist was a cheap coffee mug from teespring or whatever. My retention NCO and 1SG were both at that calling it quits stage as well) but I completely agree with you on how it should have been done.
Hell, where I came from we could just RFS them - finding out that wasn’t a thing in the Guard was a major wtf moment for me. The issue was understaffing when it came to said unit and the fact that people just didn’t seem to care. We had guys pop hot on drug tests only to be given another chance or two (apparently that has changed). Guys would get DUIs but since it wasn’t felony DUI, they got to stay. We had 6-year PFCs... flagged since they got back from OSUT who were never able to get promoted. It was a shitshow. One of the best examples was a guy just went UA (Guard AWOL) then came back a few months later as if nothing happened. Apparently he is still in. No family issues... he just kinda quit.
At times I felt like I was in that movie Heartbreak Ridge with the amount of fuckery that went on.
I didn’t let my Joes see me as checked out. I always went out of my way to make sure they were fed, were doing alright at home, had rides to drill (I’d pick up the ones who couldn’t get a ride or drive in). If a guy was struggling I’d try and find out why and work with him. Complaints were made upwards with my CoC not downwards.
We had some great dudes but it seemed that the majority of seasoned folks were on their way out and the ones who stayed were the shitbags who had nowhere else to go.
If you haven't already, try reading Catch-22. It's the most accurate portrayal of the military I've ever seen, and definitely lets you know you aren't alone in dealing with all the fuckery.
When I was in, DUIs weren't really considered a reason to get rid of someone either until the RIF. I got rid of one of our soldiers for a DUI and it was like I was being an unreasonable Nazi for doing it. A married chick fell asleep in her car offbase. She had driven onto base, fucked her ex-bf, got drunk, and tried to drive back home. We didn't even have to wait until she was convicted in local court, she was out in two weeks. Just being arrested for it was enough justification for our JAG to think we had a case for "serious misconduct", so I was fine with that. Everyone else that saw what happened knew it was time to stop fucking around. But generally it was like what you said about drug tests, DUIs, etc. It used to be an act of God to get rid of someone. Looking back on it, I think most of that was just laziness (staff, JAG, CoC), different levels of sympathy / different priorities, and a lack of knowledge on the part of the CoC though. Once you start doing it, you're like "my XO was fucking lazy." If you're organized and get your paperwork in order, that makes it easy for people to do their jobs to help you, and then things go much more smoothly. Kind of like dealing with any other bureaucratic red tape. For the times when you get pushback, if you really know someone doesn't belong, you just don't take no for an answer, dig up the relevant rules & laws, and keep pushing. If it becomes more annoying to ignore you than to do the work, people will eventually do work.
Later, when we all knew the RIF was coming I got much more support from my CoC for getting rid of shitbags, and what was once a rarity became a given. Anyone with more than two brain cells knew it'd be an across the board cut of the good and the bad, but you still had people that thought it was heartless to get rid of PFC Snuffy on his 3rd DUI because he had a wife and kids, discounting the fact that letting him stay not only hurt the unit but would also make it much more likely that PFC Joe with the same family situation and no discipline issues might also get fired. So I looked at it like I was saving 1 good soldier (well probably a 50% chance of saving someone) every time I got rid of someone bad. Having a BDE CDR that wanted to court martial every AWOL soldier was also great (JAG bitched about the paperwork that would entail, wah wah).
She's surrounded by Michiganders who will not allow Michigan to secede. The moment she tries anything like this she'll have thousands of deer hunters at her door.
Unless the Dems end up cheating Biden into office at which point those people will be the ones who don't let her stay in the union.
It will be too late
Bullshit
She is awful. Our recall petition was mysteriously pulled by the original petitioner at the last possible moment.
We still have this petition to limit her powers:
https://unlockmichigan.ivolunteers.com/Register/sign-up
Please sign this
Request the unlock Michigan petition on their website to Stop this Witchmer
I am scared for my state.
As of yesterday, she wrote a new executive order that says the old orders aren't being taken seriously so state agencies including the State Police and the licensing bureaus must punish people for ignoring them.
https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/governor-whitmer-ordering-stricter-enforcement-of-covid-19-executive-orders
Michiganders need to do a Mussolini on her.
What the actual fuck is wrong with her face and why does the sign language chick look just as creepy
fuck Michigan. I am so glad I moved out of that State. Any State that votes this broad in and someone like Talib, And Talib is going to win her primary also, I never want to go back and visit at all. I want nothing to do with that State. its too far gone
Yeah, how did she win in the first place? I thought Michigan went red?
MI is like every other purple state. Detroit is a democrat cesspool between muslims and the auto unions. The west side is one of the most conservative areas in America. The general population loss in Detroit has helped turn things a bit more red, but 2018 had legal weed on the ballot which got the Democrats out en mass and brought this cunt in as well.
Dont forget Democrat county clerks and their creative ballot counting
That's sad if people voted her in just for weed
see justin cuckdeau
It's something she likes so the rules don't matter.
"Rules for thee but not for me" is the ultimate power porn fetish for leftists.
Heil Whitmer! Heil Whitmer! Heil Whitmer!
What I don't understand is where are the people with this information and why aren't they gathering to go visit her? The hypocrisy needs to be called out and marched upon or it's over.
“Bow before your commander, peasants”
DO AS I SAY! NOT AS I DO!
Its the viking cuck vote, messing things up for everyone else. Shame on those soul-less gingers
full read: https://archive.ph/Ms11M#selection-400.0-409.131
“Rules for thee, not for me!” in action.
Libtard hypocrisy is out of control.
You pedes should show more respect.
Xir was a gold medalist in the decathlon, basically the greatest athlete in the world
As much as I hate this cunt I will at least acknowledge her honoring the troops and traditions. They deserve at least her modicum of respect regardless of the publicity stunt this appears to be.
The area she is in only has one Covid patient in the hospital. That's one patient throughout the whole hospital network (8 hospitals). It's been single digits for last two weeks but she keeps increasing the lockdown measures. https://www.munsonhealthcare.org/services/community-health/covid19/new-coronavirus-(covid-19)
They are trying to install a two-class system and the Karens of the world a willing and able to help them.
Looks like Queen Bitch is acting out again, she is the most authoritarian despicable governor in the history of our state
Why did they vote her into power. Wake up Michigan.
Cruella deville!
Cops should have shut it down. If they're going to be enforcing this BS the governor needs to be subject to the rules.
This qualifies her even more for the VP ticket with Biden for 2 reasons:
HANG THE BITCH
Wretchen Whitmer needs to be vanned (by those who have the authority to do vanning)
If she gets re-elected, that will tell me that collectively, Michiganders are total Idiots.
With the provided numbers and information given, this gathering was ~72x the limit, not 3x the limit.
With any luck they'll all catch it.
RULES FOR THEEEEEEEEEE
They'll never learn
OMG. That's her WITHOUT a mask??? I thought she was wearing a full over the head Halloween mask of some alien swamp creature!