Why does everyone need this to be a feud? Adams been feeling himself lately talking big about getting into politics and trying to change shit. It's not ridiculous to think he left simply to pursue his own ends. Him unfriending Lydia is sketchy but that may not involve Tim. In fact it might be 100% unrelated to him leaving. He may just have never liked her lol.
The timing of the whole thing tells me that a feud is the correct thought. They had their biggest audience the night before then BOOM Adam is gone? Adam is why that podcast was growing because Tim is boring AF, and Lydia is even worse.
But all 3 of them have said there's no hard feelings and adam's studio for his live show is still in the same building. Plus adamcast is still linked from and associated with timcast.
Tim is boring as fuck on his own. I agree with that. His fence sitter bullshit gets old fast. The only reason he does it is because he wants to become the "fact checker" of record. Adam took a side for better or worse. He's team maga. Now I for one am also team maga so I love it. That being said you can't be a neutral fact checker and on the maga train. So thats what I mean by it might not be a feud. It may be genuine creative differences.
Adam seems like a kid with a lot of drive and ambition. The type who would try to realize his dreams not the type to hide under Tims wing forever. All I am saying is there may be some friction between them right not. However that doesn't mean this is a feud.
They had their biggest podcast and as soon as Adam put on the MAGA beanie they lost 20,000 views.
If there was a feud it was likely because of that, the algorithm is a huge part of why the podcast is growing and word of mouth, not because a hippie started ranting about Q and blindly worshipping Trump and often getting things wrong.
Imagine downvoting me because I stated an undeniable fact. Adam putting on the Beanie cost the show 10's of thousands of viewers on their most popular stream ever.
Quite the opposite. Rating and likes skyrocketed with Adam, and especially lately when donning the red beanie. In fact. Last week he promised the beanie after 30k likes, and days later he had to up it to 40k, which was met! The 3 of them on the show were on a trajectory or over 1M views by November. Tim wants to be seen as nonpartisan however. He cut Adam and last night his views were back to pre-Adam levels.
His views last night were the same as his views 3 days ago, why are you lying about the facts here? Likes were lower than usual but that's to be expected when they're not begging for likes and offering an incentive and some viewers were upset about Adam leaving.
I'm sure that some people watched for Adam but Tim's viewers aren't there for Adam, his other two channels have a combined 1.8 million subscribers, Adam doesn't exist on his main channels, it's ridiculous to pin Tim's success on his smallest channel having a guy that wears a MAGA beanie.
I like the show and the dynamic between them was sometimes alright to watch, but the worship of Adam on here is strange, what is "pre-Adam" levels? Adam has been on the podcast since the start?
Adam has been putting the Beanie on for over 2 weeks. it was 30k "likes" and he put on the beanie. Then it went to 40k "Likes", which he got. So your theory is off. He puts the beanie on at the end, and people start to log off. Adam was growing the show.
How did anything you just said contradict what I said?
Yes they set like goals and they reach those like goals... I literally watched the view count go from 85k to 65k after Adam but the MAGA beanie on.
The title of the livestream was about Joe picking Kamala as VP, that's probably why so many people were watching, and then clearly a large portion of them weren't happy to see a MAGA guy.
Dude went from being excited that he'd have his own studio for his podcast in the new location tim is planning to move to. To suddenly bouncing. The only reasonable speculation I've seen is that Adams wife might not have been down to move out into the sticks to keep the band together so to speak, but that seems unlikely if you listen to how stoked Adam was about the upcoming move.
This is what I thought. The only suspicious part of that is Tim kept saying "it was a personal choice" "people make personal choices, it's not for us to judge". So maybe Tim put down some kind of ultimatum and Adam is thinking that they will be stronger with individual shows. Oh well.
Moving forward Adam is no longer on the show and many of you may have seen his tweet about it.
A lot of people are speculating about what's going on and unfortunately its all fairly private and I don't want to cause any harm by airing people's dirty laundry.
I can say though, it has nothing to do with me(Tim) or money
There is no Youtube conspiracy or issue of censorship
Its just personal and private
Sometimes these things happen
For now the show will be me and Lydia and we are beginning to start booking guests again as things chill out a bit (hopefully remaining chilled out)
If that isn't your jam, then no beef, we appreciate your support while it lasted and we will just keep doing our thing.
Hopefully as we build out the new studio we can schedule guests for everyday m-f
even regular joe's and jane's, people who do humble jobs and want to express their views and talk about what is happening in this country
Hopefully it all works out for everyone and we just have a good time
I upvoted you because we have no idea what happened behind the scenes. People here just jumped to the conclusion that Tim fired Adam because he's a Trump supporter, even though Tim himself has admitted that he's going to vote Trump in November.
Tim is entitled to his show, he built the thing, but it is a little formulaic. Crigler was starting to get more confident and you could see him push back on Timmy. Nothing against Tim, but you can't invite a new maga zealot to the weekly fence sitting bridge party, he's just too much fun.
Idk man. I like Crigler but from my perspective he just wasn’t bright enough to be a fit for Tim. Not trying to be mean but he was basically a cheerleader instead of intellectual. Tim could pair well with someone that is more intellectual and understands law. Pick up where Tim doesn’t know or have a fine tuned perspective. Like two friends from different backgrounds that agree on values.
Yeah be he was basically the yin to his yang. Tim brought the facts, but Adam brought the personality. The show was pretty cut and dry without him tonight. I feel like Adam was someone the average person could connect with more.
Like you said, even if he WAS a "cheerleader" he still played his part well and offered entertainment and an emotional connection.
Lol, this is a perfect summation of pretty much every Timcast clip I've ever watched. Seriously appreciate Adam going full MAGA, but the dude needs to lay off the bong sometimes.
I think your spot on. Adam was there as a cheerleader in the begining. Since he got red pilled you could the it was straining the relationship. Having a full blown maga hat wearing trump supporter makes it hard to have a centrist podcast.
On Tim's other channel he has nearly a million subscribers. He's gained about half of those in the last year. I don't think Adam is going to be anywhere near that big for quite some time.
I like Adam, but a lot of people use Tim as a news source.
I respectfully disagree. If you watch all of his segments, you get a good bit of information. And since he scans all sources, he pulls the Times and shitty companies like that and calls them out for their lies, shit framing of articles and lack of sources.
He's behind the actual news cycle and clutters it with his angst. Just reading here with a critical eye will put you 18+ hours ahead with less hand wringing about "the media" aka communist propaganda.
I'm on your boat. I want to sign up as a republican, but that uniparty garbage really keeps me away from joining. As Dan Bongino says, Republicans don't have all the answers, but the Democrats are the root of all our problems
I watch a shit ton of his videos and have for years. 2 years ago Tim is very different to today Tim. Maybe it's all just a LARP, but if it is it's a good one.
lol i suggest you go back and watch his series on the NYT headlines about youtube converting kids into extremist. His goal is to shift the overtun window so that more conservatives are exposed to more liberal ideas. He even donated to Yang because the guy supported UBI.
If you listen very carefully, he is complaining about the way democrats are doing things. not that they are actually doing certain things.
He has been a lefty all his life and in media of all things.
Nah. I watch his content. He explained his position today. I understand where he’s coming from and respect his view. People gotta realize Trump may do awesome shit and is funny but a President has never been like Trump before. It makes people nervous to have someone like a bull in a china shop. He paid off his hooker and sued her, then called her horseface when he won. You think that may put dads with kids in awkward positions at home? Ffs. Tim doesn’t hate anybody that I’ve seen and praises the best republicans we have.
you haven't seen him talk about republicans then. He literally hates republicans because of the bible.
and look at you, of all the things to come back at me with, you choose a fake attack on Trump?? lol and you dont even know what happened there. Trump denies it, she signed an affidavit denying it (she can go to jail if she lied on the affidavit), but goes on talk shows and tells people about Trumps mushroom looking dick.
This is another typical leftist tactic to smear Trump or people they disagree with.
Oh its no big deal about that, but look at that low life over there.... keep up the propaganda though
Uh, we had a president who would challenge anyone to a duel that he thought insulted him and gave a speech after being shot. Like a guy insulted him, he took him out on the back lawn of the white house, they did the ten paces, turn and shoot thing, they shot each other, and he walked around to the front and gave a scheduled speech like nothing happened. Oh yeah, we've had presidents like Trump before.
Which is why I stopped watching pretty much all these stupid podcasts. Even Alex Jones was "curated" stuff to not anger the YT gods. So that means I don't get any real news, just safe "grazing" of the news, enough to no get penalized for that sweet youtuber cash.
Actually, I know that's what Tim said, but it seemed like there was more to it than he was letting on. Tim said it had nothing to do with him, but I feel like he actually told Adam he had to go, or possibly that he could stay but only if he agreed to certain conditions that he couldn't get down with. Unless, of course it really DID have nothing to do with Tim and perhaps something to do with Lydia? The way Tim said "it's not his business", seemed like it may have had something to do with Adam and someone ELSE.
The chat was like 90% people spamming stuff like "Bring Adam back", "#BEANIEGATE2020", "AdamLivesMatter", "Say his name! #AdamCrigler", etc...
Eventually Adam joined the chat saying "I FUCKING LOVE YOU CHAT!" He also said "I will no longer be able to take part in the show."
Someone asked him why he left, and his reply was "It wasn't my choice"
A person asked if he will explain what happened on his channel and he responded "Most definitely"
He then proceed to tag people saying his name and wanting more Adam with emoticons like ❤️ and things.
Then he proceeded to post the URL to his YouTube channel in chat multiple times.
So, by the looks of it, he was forced to leave the show and he didn't seem happy about it. I have no evidence to support that other than his responses and the way phrased things.
That sucks man. I was starting to become a regular to the cast because of their synergy. Tim already puts out videos of just him all day long. Now it will just pretty much be a long live segment every night.
Here's my take even though it's just total speculation bc I'm a glutton for Internet drama and I'm not sorry:
Adam is "out" as a Trump supporter and is frustrated that Tim is still trying to play the role of a moderate even though behind closed doors I'm sure they all gulp down redpills.
Adam wants to talk more about his pro-Trump stance on issues, but Tim stifles him because he feels the need to protect his brand.
Tim also doesn't let Adam talk very much in general and leads the conversation most of the time, only letting him get in a few takes here and there. I'm sure that annoyed Adam and you can hear the frustration from him on the show sometimes.
Adam wants a platform where he can speak freely about whatever he wants and to make his own brand. He's been floating "Adamcast" jokingly for a while now and he was the one who pushed Tim to move forward with the podcast to begin with.
It's kinda annoying how instead of just coming out and saying he's voting for Trump, Tim always says stuff like, "I'll likely be voting for Trump", "I'll almost certainly be voting for Trump", "I think it will come down to me voting for Trump", "I believe it will come down to voting for Trump, we'll have to see", etc...
He's always talking about him, he praises many of his policies and achievements, and says there no way in hell he would EVER vote for Biden, and Biden must be stopped at all costs. If that's the case, then he needs to just say he is voting for Trump. If Biden really MUST be stopped, what's he gonna do... Not vote, or just waste a vote on someone who doesn't even matter? I think it's just silly how he always phrases it.
The camera cut to her frequently on the livestream when she talked while Adam was still there. Tonight she was on camera I think in the same place Adam used to sit
Ok I haven't seen the show in a couple of months now. I just went to check out the show and I did see her once. I was annoyed that she was basically part of the discussions in practically every stream, yet never showed her face. Maybe that will change now that Soy Jesus is gone?
Ah makes sense, I’ve only started watching in the last couple of months, thought it had always been that way. Tonight she “co hosted” so she was on camera a lot- I guess we will see how it works out when he starts having guests. Sad, I had just started really getting into their show and I liked Adam
I like Tim, but his podcasts are getting kind of stale. Maybe this will shake up the podcast a bit, and I will have to check it out again. I will also check out Soy Jesus and see what he can do on his own.
I think the extra tune in was to see if Adam really was gone and what would be said. Sad for all of us. WWG1WGA, was the begging of Adams dismissal I swear.
I feel like Adam really understood what the community wanted while Tim kinda just wanted to provide the news. Their synergy was really good for the channel. Now it will just be a long live Tim Pool segment every night. There will be no spark or debates. Bleh.
I don't have a twitter account so I can't verify, but I saw commented here (at thedonald) earlier today that Adam still follows Tim but just stopped following Lydia... and Adam's old lady might have a hand in this abrupt 'change'.
Good luck Adam with your new show/podcast.
I think if Lydia tried to make some moves on me... i'd probably fold too? 😉😜 ...no idea if that's what happened tho.
You know what... Adam was talking in the live chat and replied to everyone saying stuff like "bring back Adam". Saying stuff like I" love you guys", and that him no longer being on the show "wasn't his decision".
Now, unless Tim is lying, he said that Adam being gone had nothing to do with HIM (Tim). Tim also mentioned Adam at the end of the show, and said he just had pizza with him a few hours ago. Now, Lydia didn't mention ANYTHING about Adam... like at ALL.
So, what IF... It rally does have to do with something involving Lydia, ESPECIALLY if he is no longer following her? Tim even said it was kind of a private issue and didn't wanna "air dirty laundry".
Anyways, Adam was promoting his channel in chat and posted the URL, as well as saying he was going to address the whole issue about what happens on his own channel.
TBH, it's probably nothing TOO crazy. Although, you never know.
Apparently she's appeared on camera a couple of times now. I haven't seen the show for a couple of months.
Meh, she's kind of masculine. Honestly I don't care about her looks. It does bother me greatly when you have a podcast where there's a 3rd person, never seen on camera, CONSTANTLY jumping in and adding their opinions. If you're going to add to the discussion where the other 2 people are seen, then fucking show your face.
Something personal happened with Adam. Unlike Tim, He has a marriage and a life outside of timcast. More information will come out soon. Let's not Covington this situation.
Tim doesn't realize this is going to hurt his money in a big way. Probably not as much as I'm giving it credit for since I watch almost every video he makes each day the last few months and I'm not alone, but TimmyCastIRL is going to lose 2/3 super chats and folks that join. I'm mostly through tonight's episode, and I'm not SMASHING the LIKE button :(
We all know that Crigler dicked down Lydia the cutie and Tim was like nah thats not cool bro, we not supposed to be fucking the producer even tho she fine as hell. So Crigler was like "U lil pussy I'll make my own show"
I bet youtube made tim do it or Adam wanted HIS money...remember the other day he said he was tallying up the donations made to him. What if tim wanted to take all the money to build his new Utopia, lol just speculating
it was when Adam was talking about the MAGA thong if i remember correctly. Tim told him to start a GoFundMe and he said it around the same time, not sure if it was the same show. but it was within the last few weeks.
To be fair, Tim is trying to resurrect unbiased journalism and Adam doesn't fit the bill.
...but that's what his solo uploads are for. Adam was a way forward to expand his business to achieve his dream. Adam is like a year away from eating protein for gains in case he has to fight off the commies and the metamorphosis was/is incredibly entertaining to watch.
He was making Tim put on the MAGA beanie. Not to mention Tim spends 18 minutes of a 20 minute video virtue signaling and ranting about "born in Chicago" or "I'm 1/1024th Korean". Tim is his landlord, boss, and friend all rolled into one. I'm sure Tim enjoys the power.
Adam is like the person who discovers The_Donald for the first time and starts taking the red pill. He suck down too many red pills at once and start spewing shit at people anywhere at anytime. It was worse for Adam since he was doing it on youtube. There was a show in the past couple of weeks where Adam had literally ODed on redpills... they weren't even pills anymore-- it was intravenous liquid red... anyhow, he started basically saying that regular people should riot and stand up for what they believe in. It was right on the cusp of advocating for violence, and I'm sure Tim freaked about it.
I like Adam, but he's gotta learn to handle his redpills.
It's a shame. I like the dynamic between Tim and Adam. I kinda feel like Adam was overtaking Tim to some degree in terms of his political leaning. Adam ended up being further right of Tim. I think that made it harder for Tim to push a certain narrative.
eh I get it though, if he was able to turn this Trump hating hippy towards the right, I would prefer Tim to stay in the middle. Even if he is doing it for his own sake, he is great at opening peoples eyes that would shut off anyone one that was slightly on the right
Exactly, exposure to pro-Trump content from anti-Trump personalities is the reddest pill of all. The more Tim claims neutrality, the more credence he has with the haters.
It's funny how he always speaks out against cancel culture and tells people to stop being afraid and stand up against the left. Saying stuff like it's better to stand up and take the consequences than say nothing and let Trump lose. If that's what really happened then it's TOTALLY hypocritical...
True, but Tim plays a fence sitter, mostly edging towards the right. He is an asset, centrists and some on the left trust him. If he can turn this hippy to a MAGA hat wearer, it is better he stay where he is and let Adam move on to greatness...Can't push open peoples eyes when you get shut down
That's a shame, I liked the back and forth with him and Tim. I actually told my husband the other night that I liked Adam more than Tim sometimes because he wasn't afraid to get off the fence meanwhile Tim seems wishy-washy a lot of the time.
For anyone who cares I've been a real autist about this situation.
TimcastIRL had their biggest night ever Tuesday, right after the Horrible Harris announcement. Biggest by far - 81k peak concurrent viewers (prev peak was abt 65k) and over 50k likes (just a week ago we struggled to get 30k for the MAGA beanie)
Wednesday it stormed hard at the beanie compound, so when Tim said they hit a snag, i assumed it was weather... but then Adam posted his "im no longer on timcastIRL" tweet
The remainder of weds night was painful, social media speculation ran rampant. The conspiracy theories ranged from infighting between Adam and Tim, Adam and Lydia, Adams wife and Lydia, etc, Youtube censorship, division of Super Chat monies, and so on. Plus everyone who said they were trolling.
Thurs, Tim posted an update that explicitly denied most theories except one... the Adam vs Lydia theory. However, i started seeing some other theories along the lines of "they realize MAGA will kill the channel with youtube so he has to go"
During last nights livestream Adam was in the chat. He confirmed multiple times that is was not HIS choice (no "personal issues") and his wife confirmed on twitter that she was not the cause (i traveled across the country twice so he could do this job...) He also promised to discuss it on the next Adamcast
Lydia took his seat tonight as cohost and did a great job of agreeing to everything tim said.
Tim and Adam are old friends and I mostly believe him when he says theye all cool.
So in conclusion, i think youtube pressures channel thru producer lydia (who tim simps for more than anything)
What bothered me the most was that Tim would shoot down Adam comments with "No"s even when Adam was trying to support or agree with what Time was saying. MANY of the "No"s absolutely could have been "Yes, and"s but Tim just had to keep saying "No"
:/ If I had a time machine I would reach Tim the phrase "Yes, and"
This so much. Ive been pointing out this behavior for months and knew it would mess things up. It was condescending as fuck. "No no no listen listen listen what is really happening is whatever I say"
Adam leaving for one reason or another seemed inevitable to me.
I've been a Tim fan for years... but this behavior came out on URL and Tim really could have cut it out.
I have no idea what the drama is, but if Tim is really going to bring on rotating guests, then it’s better that Adam leaves and branches out. I like Adam’s deep dives and music, he can do well with that. But having guests works better when they’re 1 on 1 plus a fact checker. Either way, I hope Adam frequents as one of the guests and continues to collaborate with Tim.
I think this was likely strategy to grow the brand as a solution to whatever issues they had growing together.
Adam was getting more popular and probably wanted a piece of the pie or a bigger voice on the show, and Tim's a smart guy, so why not just make a second channel and support each other? Very, very common for popular YT'ers to have multiple channels.
New studio is 30 feet away
TimCastIRL + AdamCastIRL
If they continued to do shows together while having separate channels as well, then people probably just don't check Adam's channel and continue to just watch Tim and get their Adam every once in a while on there.
Plus they can just go back together in the future at any time for any reason.
It's not cheating with Lydia or anyone else, or the new studio wouldn't be 30 feet away still.
He was establishing a hype routine. When it's routine, it doesn't work. It becomes as dross as a pun in r/askreddit. You also can't just keep increasing the hype when it just means smashing a pillow in an increasingly theatrical fashion or figuring out how to double-click an air duster. That's Gallagher shit. He's like carrot top but with a soul and not funny. He was a hype man. It's an appeal to emotion. It has limits and it was going to limit the show. You can talk about serious shit and turn around and smash a pillow, but that's going to make it hard to be critical of media or do anything other than preach to the choir. He is a newb at being redpilled and couldn't really contribute much intellectually besides a fresh view of a non-bitter-vet.
Tim seems like an anal retentive control freak but that's probably just his repetitiveness anger and Ben Shapiro voice. Kyle Kalinski voice. He has to have something up his ass to have reservations at this point.The collateral damage is surprising. Guests will be more sustainable than Adam was. He could create an army of Adams.
If you look at Adam's Instagram, it seems like he wants to cover cultural stuff more - music, games, art, etc. Dunno if he pushed Tim and Lydia to do more of that with the show and they weren't feeling it or what, but people really need to learn how to post about restructuring to not make things seem like a complete falling-out. Also they should allow Adam one more episode to let people know what's going on and what he'll be up to the next room over.
TBH Adam often interrupted Tim while Tim was in the middle of a train of thought, and I found it pretty irritating. Responding to a momentary rhetorical question with a needlessly drawn-out answer, that sort of thing.
That said, without Tim, Adam is really interesting. Also, without Adam, Tim remains really interesting.
I think they'll do much better independently. They can both get their thoughts out without stepping on each other's toes. I'll happily watch both.
I liked the back and forth. Listening to two hours of Tim droning on would get so monotonous I'd never be able to watch it. And he has plenty of time in his solo videos. The interaction is what makes a show better (Crowder's show does this).
Tim said on his YouTube channel that Adam leaving has nothing to do with Tim or money. Most think it was an argument with Lydia and Adam just said “whatever I’m out.”
come on you cant say his SMASH THE LIKE BUTTONS STITCK was good well if you do you have a higher cringe tolerance than me but ya im glad he is a trump fan for sure but damn cringeboy
Don't hate the player hate the game. That dumb cringe shit worked. Streamers need the interactions and if you can come up with something catchier than "thumbs up like and subscribe" then you'll find your content being pushed via the algorithm which literally makes you more money.
The only reason I watched the show was for Adam. Tim treated him like shit and I could tell it pissed him off. I just unsubscribe now
But think about it... You'll subscribe to Adam.
So if they're together in this, then people leaving one for the other isn't a loss.
And anyone who sees value in both will join both, meaning double the revenue.
Reminds me of how rappers would sell records back in the day. The Game and 50 Cent comes to mind
Why does everyone need this to be a feud? Adams been feeling himself lately talking big about getting into politics and trying to change shit. It's not ridiculous to think he left simply to pursue his own ends. Him unfriending Lydia is sketchy but that may not involve Tim. In fact it might be 100% unrelated to him leaving. He may just have never liked her lol.
The timing of the whole thing tells me that a feud is the correct thought. They had their biggest audience the night before then BOOM Adam is gone? Adam is why that podcast was growing because Tim is boring AF, and Lydia is even worse.
But all 3 of them have said there's no hard feelings and adam's studio for his live show is still in the same building. Plus adamcast is still linked from and associated with timcast.
Tim is boring as fuck on his own. I agree with that. His fence sitter bullshit gets old fast. The only reason he does it is because he wants to become the "fact checker" of record. Adam took a side for better or worse. He's team maga. Now I for one am also team maga so I love it. That being said you can't be a neutral fact checker and on the maga train. So thats what I mean by it might not be a feud. It may be genuine creative differences.
Adam seems like a kid with a lot of drive and ambition. The type who would try to realize his dreams not the type to hide under Tims wing forever. All I am saying is there may be some friction between them right not. However that doesn't mean this is a feud.
They had their biggest podcast and as soon as Adam put on the MAGA beanie they lost 20,000 views.
If there was a feud it was likely because of that, the algorithm is a huge part of why the podcast is growing and word of mouth, not because a hippie started ranting about Q and blindly worshipping Trump and often getting things wrong.
Imagine downvoting me because I stated an undeniable fact. Adam putting on the Beanie cost the show 10's of thousands of viewers on their most popular stream ever.
Quite the opposite. Rating and likes skyrocketed with Adam, and especially lately when donning the red beanie. In fact. Last week he promised the beanie after 30k likes, and days later he had to up it to 40k, which was met! The 3 of them on the show were on a trajectory or over 1M views by November. Tim wants to be seen as nonpartisan however. He cut Adam and last night his views were back to pre-Adam levels.
His views last night were the same as his views 3 days ago, why are you lying about the facts here? Likes were lower than usual but that's to be expected when they're not begging for likes and offering an incentive and some viewers were upset about Adam leaving.
I'm sure that some people watched for Adam but Tim's viewers aren't there for Adam, his other two channels have a combined 1.8 million subscribers, Adam doesn't exist on his main channels, it's ridiculous to pin Tim's success on his smallest channel having a guy that wears a MAGA beanie.
I like the show and the dynamic between them was sometimes alright to watch, but the worship of Adam on here is strange, what is "pre-Adam" levels? Adam has been on the podcast since the start?
Adam has been putting the Beanie on for over 2 weeks. it was 30k "likes" and he put on the beanie. Then it went to 40k "Likes", which he got. So your theory is off. He puts the beanie on at the end, and people start to log off. Adam was growing the show.
What theory of mine is off?
How did anything you just said contradict what I said?
Yes they set like goals and they reach those like goals... I literally watched the view count go from 85k to 65k after Adam but the MAGA beanie on.
The title of the livestream was about Joe picking Kamala as VP, that's probably why so many people were watching, and then clearly a large portion of them weren't happy to see a MAGA guy.
As of an hour ago, Tim had 27k. Can't blame that drop on Adam or MAGA.
Dude went from being excited that he'd have his own studio for his podcast in the new location tim is planning to move to. To suddenly bouncing. The only reasonable speculation I've seen is that Adams wife might not have been down to move out into the sticks to keep the band together so to speak, but that seems unlikely if you listen to how stoked Adam was about the upcoming move.
I don’t know about any of these people and it sounds like an episode of Melrose Place
Maybe it had something to do with Tim moving away?
But maybe not the way you think.
Could just be maximizing on that newfound value by giving him his own voice and appealing to a new audience for them both.
This is what I thought. The only suspicious part of that is Tim kept saying "it was a personal choice" "people make personal choices, it's not for us to judge". So maybe Tim put down some kind of ultimatum and Adam is thinking that they will be stronger with individual shows. Oh well.
Here's what Tim said today, here: https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugx8yoFOZEcyqSO7iPl4AaABCQ
Moving forward Adam is no longer on the show and many of you may have seen his tweet about it.
A lot of people are speculating about what's going on and unfortunately its all fairly private and I don't want to cause any harm by airing people's dirty laundry.
I can say though, it has nothing to do with me(Tim) or money There is no Youtube conspiracy or issue of censorship
Its just personal and private
Sometimes these things happen
For now the show will be me and Lydia and we are beginning to start booking guests again as things chill out a bit (hopefully remaining chilled out)
If that isn't your jam, then no beef, we appreciate your support while it lasted and we will just keep doing our thing.
Hopefully as we build out the new studio we can schedule guests for everyday m-f
even regular joe's and jane's, people who do humble jobs and want to express their views and talk about what is happening in this country
Hopefully it all works out for everyone and we just have a good time
I upvoted you because we have no idea what happened behind the scenes. People here just jumped to the conclusion that Tim fired Adam because he's a Trump supporter, even though Tim himself has admitted that he's going to vote Trump in November.
there's no way that's the reason. all three are pretty much guaranteed Trump voters at this point.
Pretty sure chrome dome was mad people liked Adam more.
Tim is entitled to his show, he built the thing, but it is a little formulaic. Crigler was starting to get more confident and you could see him push back on Timmy. Nothing against Tim, but you can't invite a new maga zealot to the weekly fence sitting bridge party, he's just too much fun.
Idk man. I like Crigler but from my perspective he just wasn’t bright enough to be a fit for Tim. Not trying to be mean but he was basically a cheerleader instead of intellectual. Tim could pair well with someone that is more intellectual and understands law. Pick up where Tim doesn’t know or have a fine tuned perspective. Like two friends from different backgrounds that agree on values.
Yeah be he was basically the yin to his yang. Tim brought the facts, but Adam brought the personality. The show was pretty cut and dry without him tonight. I feel like Adam was someone the average person could connect with more.
Like you said, even if he WAS a "cheerleader" he still played his part well and offered entertainment and an emotional connection.
Yeah, I really enjoyed the show for Adam. He was the "everyman" that was easily relatable and his enthusiasm was great.
I'll continue to watch the clips but Tim is pretty dry and apocalyptic by himself.
I agree. They just don’t match with a vibe. It is what it is. They’ll figure it out.
To be fair, he’s at the beginning of his journey. Hell, he hasn’t been thinking about these things for even a year.
Yeah Adam doesn't connect the dots very well.
Tim: "Something something something and you know what that means..."
Adam: "Yeah it means something we're not talking about."
Tim: "Well, I was thinking more along the lines of something something something, but you're right about that too."
Lol, this is a perfect summation of pretty much every Timcast clip I've ever watched. Seriously appreciate Adam going full MAGA, but the dude needs to lay off the bong sometimes.
Bingo.
Tim would do better with someone who doesn't live in the same house as him. I can't imagine getting 24/7 politics.
They live together?
I think your spot on. Adam was there as a cheerleader in the begining. Since he got red pilled you could the it was straining the relationship. Having a full blown maga hat wearing trump supporter makes it hard to have a centrist podcast.
On Tim's other channel he has nearly a million subscribers. He's gained about half of those in the last year. I don't think Adam is going to be anywhere near that big for quite some time.
I like Adam, but a lot of people use Tim as a news source.
Tim is good for 2 minutes of day plus old news with 18 minutes of hypocrisy, hand wringing, and excuse making.
I respectfully disagree. If you watch all of his segments, you get a good bit of information. And since he scans all sources, he pulls the Times and shitty companies like that and calls them out for their lies, shit framing of articles and lack of sources.
He's behind the actual news cycle and clutters it with his angst. Just reading here with a critical eye will put you 18+ hours ahead with less hand wringing about "the media" aka communist propaganda.
actually we do, another Trump supporter loses their voice in social media.
"actually we do" what? How do you know he didn't just quit? Lydia and Tim have both hinted they're voting Trump. I don't understand your take.
Tim wont vote Trump. likely just wont vote. The guy is a lefty. He literally hates the republican party because so many believe in the bible.
We will see, ill be surprised if there is some sort of an NDA but you never know.
I hate both parties sooo....I"m just a Trumpican.
I'm on your boat. I want to sign up as a republican, but that uniparty garbage really keeps me away from joining. As Dan Bongino says, Republicans don't have all the answers, but the Democrats are the root of all our problems
I watch a shit ton of his videos and have for years. 2 years ago Tim is very different to today Tim. Maybe it's all just a LARP, but if it is it's a good one.
lol i suggest you go back and watch his series on the NYT headlines about youtube converting kids into extremist. His goal is to shift the overtun window so that more conservatives are exposed to more liberal ideas. He even donated to Yang because the guy supported UBI.
If you listen very carefully, he is complaining about the way democrats are doing things. not that they are actually doing certain things.
He has been a lefty all his life and in media of all things.
Nah. I watch his content. He explained his position today. I understand where he’s coming from and respect his view. People gotta realize Trump may do awesome shit and is funny but a President has never been like Trump before. It makes people nervous to have someone like a bull in a china shop. He paid off his hooker and sued her, then called her horseface when he won. You think that may put dads with kids in awkward positions at home? Ffs. Tim doesn’t hate anybody that I’ve seen and praises the best republicans we have.
you haven't seen him talk about republicans then. He literally hates republicans because of the bible.
and look at you, of all the things to come back at me with, you choose a fake attack on Trump?? lol and you dont even know what happened there. Trump denies it, she signed an affidavit denying it (she can go to jail if she lied on the affidavit), but goes on talk shows and tells people about Trumps mushroom looking dick.
This is another typical leftist tactic to smear Trump or people they disagree with. Oh its no big deal about that, but look at that low life over there.... keep up the propaganda though
Feel like this might be relevant.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200501081209/https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/30/stormy-daniels-porn-star-says-trump-affair-never-h/
Uh, we had a president who would challenge anyone to a duel that he thought insulted him and gave a speech after being shot. Like a guy insulted him, he took him out on the back lawn of the white house, they did the ten paces, turn and shoot thing, they shot each other, and he walked around to the front and gave a scheduled speech like nothing happened. Oh yeah, we've had presidents like Trump before.
He has his own channel, which recently got monetized
https://www.youtube.com/c/AdamcastIRL
If he is OK, I doubt he will just throw that opportunity away
Depends, he may have signed something with Tim. You never know
During tonight's podcast, he and Lydia said Adam and they just had pizza together like few minutes before the podcast. So they are still friends.
I wonder if Adam was becoming too partisan for Tim's fence sitting show?
It's possible. Adam has also dropped some Qanon stuff in recent episodes and I could see Tim not wanting to be involved with that.
Yea I saw that. I can see why Tim doesn't want that on his podcast as YouTube will insta-ban that.
Because free speech is dangerous.
Which is why I stopped watching pretty much all these stupid podcasts. Even Alex Jones was "curated" stuff to not anger the YT gods. So that means I don't get any real news, just safe "grazing" of the news, enough to no get penalized for that sweet youtuber cash.
"pizza?"
Sometimes pizza is an actual dough with tomato sauce and cheese. Crazy, I know
Actually, I know that's what Tim said, but it seemed like there was more to it than he was letting on. Tim said it had nothing to do with him, but I feel like he actually told Adam he had to go, or possibly that he could stay but only if he agreed to certain conditions that he couldn't get down with. Unless, of course it really DID have nothing to do with Tim and perhaps something to do with Lydia? The way Tim said "it's not his business", seemed like it may have had something to do with Adam and someone ELSE.
The chat was like 90% people spamming stuff like "Bring Adam back", "#BEANIEGATE2020", "AdamLivesMatter", "Say his name! #AdamCrigler", etc...
Eventually Adam joined the chat saying "I FUCKING LOVE YOU CHAT!" He also said "I will no longer be able to take part in the show."
Someone asked him why he left, and his reply was "It wasn't my choice"
A person asked if he will explain what happened on his channel and he responded "Most definitely"
He then proceed to tag people saying his name and wanting more Adam with emoticons like ❤️ and things.
Then he proceeded to post the URL to his YouTube channel in chat multiple times.
So, by the looks of it, he was forced to leave the show and he didn't seem happy about it. I have no evidence to support that other than his responses and the way phrased things.
That sucks man. I was starting to become a regular to the cast because of their synergy. Tim already puts out videos of just him all day long. Now it will just pretty much be a long live segment every night.
Sex. It's going to be about sex.
It usually is.
Adam was tapping Lydia
Have we ever seen Lydia?
Yes, regularly
maybe like 2 minutes every night lol. very rarely on the live shows.
she had a bigger spot today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RbfDNXop8U
Adam is married.
with UFOs
Here's my take even though it's just total speculation bc I'm a glutton for Internet drama and I'm not sorry:
Adam is "out" as a Trump supporter and is frustrated that Tim is still trying to play the role of a moderate even though behind closed doors I'm sure they all gulp down redpills.
Adam wants to talk more about his pro-Trump stance on issues, but Tim stifles him because he feels the need to protect his brand.
Tim also doesn't let Adam talk very much in general and leads the conversation most of the time, only letting him get in a few takes here and there. I'm sure that annoyed Adam and you can hear the frustration from him on the show sometimes.
Adam wants a platform where he can speak freely about whatever he wants and to make his own brand. He's been floating "Adamcast" jokingly for a while now and he was the one who pushed Tim to move forward with the podcast to begin with.
It's kinda annoying how instead of just coming out and saying he's voting for Trump, Tim always says stuff like, "I'll likely be voting for Trump", "I'll almost certainly be voting for Trump", "I think it will come down to me voting for Trump", "I believe it will come down to voting for Trump, we'll have to see", etc...
He's always talking about him, he praises many of his policies and achievements, and says there no way in hell he would EVER vote for Biden, and Biden must be stopped at all costs. If that's the case, then he needs to just say he is voting for Trump. If Biden really MUST be stopped, what's he gonna do... Not vote, or just waste a vote on someone who doesn't even matter? I think it's just silly how he always phrases it.
Has Lydia ever been seen on air?
Yes, all the time
I hear her in the background but she is never on camera, unless that's changed.
The camera cut to her frequently on the livestream when she talked while Adam was still there. Tonight she was on camera I think in the same place Adam used to sit
Ok I haven't seen the show in a couple of months now. I just went to check out the show and I did see her once. I was annoyed that she was basically part of the discussions in practically every stream, yet never showed her face. Maybe that will change now that Soy Jesus is gone?
Ah makes sense, I’ve only started watching in the last couple of months, thought it had always been that way. Tonight she “co hosted” so she was on camera a lot- I guess we will see how it works out when he starts having guests. Sad, I had just started really getting into their show and I liked Adam
I like Tim, but his podcasts are getting kind of stale. Maybe this will shake up the podcast a bit, and I will have to check it out again. I will also check out Soy Jesus and see what he can do on his own.
For the longest time they didn't have a third camera. She regularly got bits of screentime after they sorted that out.
F
F
F
Whhhhhhyyyyyyyy? I’m gonna miss him! Press F to spin the ufo.
To bad. I liked him!!! I think Tim is gunna miss him!! Just a gut feeling. Many could relate to Adam and it made for good convo!!
Little tim Tim was not getting enough face time and Adam went full trump so fence sitter had to get rid of him.
Soy Jesus?
🤣🤣🤣
Chat's nickname for him almost from day 1.
This will be horrible for the channel. Their debates and multiple opinions (which is what makes good podcasts) are now all gone.
I'm watching after the live ended and it says 219K
I think the extra tune in was to see if Adam really was gone and what would be said. Sad for all of us. WWG1WGA, was the begging of Adams dismissal I swear.
"It's complicated "
I'm starting to get sick of TP
Tim is a really soft bitch huh?
I never watched Tim much until one of Adam's rants made my trending. Now I'll go back to not watching him much.
I feel like Adam really understood what the community wanted while Tim kinda just wanted to provide the news. Their synergy was really good for the channel. Now it will just be a long live Tim Pool segment every night. There will be no spark or debates. Bleh.
Take a knee with me brothers.
I don't have a twitter account so I can't verify, but I saw commented here (at thedonald) earlier today that Adam still follows Tim but just stopped following Lydia... and Adam's old lady might have a hand in this abrupt 'change'.
Good luck Adam with your new show/podcast.
I think if Lydia tried to make some moves on me... i'd probably fold too? 😉😜 ...no idea if that's what happened tho.
You know what... Adam was talking in the live chat and replied to everyone saying stuff like "bring back Adam". Saying stuff like I" love you guys", and that him no longer being on the show "wasn't his decision".
Now, unless Tim is lying, he said that Adam being gone had nothing to do with HIM (Tim). Tim also mentioned Adam at the end of the show, and said he just had pizza with him a few hours ago. Now, Lydia didn't mention ANYTHING about Adam... like at ALL.
So, what IF... It rally does have to do with something involving Lydia, ESPECIALLY if he is no longer following her? Tim even said it was kind of a private issue and didn't wanna "air dirty laundry".
Anyways, Adam was promoting his channel in chat and posted the URL, as well as saying he was going to address the whole issue about what happens on his own channel.
TBH, it's probably nothing TOO crazy. Although, you never know.
I have never seen what this cunt looks like.
She's not that great, trust me
Apparently she's appeared on camera a couple of times now. I haven't seen the show for a couple of months. Meh, she's kind of masculine. Honestly I don't care about her looks. It does bother me greatly when you have a podcast where there's a 3rd person, never seen on camera, CONSTANTLY jumping in and adding their opinions. If you're going to add to the discussion where the other 2 people are seen, then fucking show your face.
Kinda like Hermoine from Harry potter
Dude, I think they all live in the same house. I like Tim, but I can't imagine being wound up 24/7 like that.
Something personal happened with Adam. Unlike Tim, He has a marriage and a life outside of timcast. More information will come out soon. Let's not Covington this situation.
That will suck for that show. Adam brought all the charisma.
stream ended with 29k likes... NO MAGA BEANIE
Tim doesn't realize this is going to hurt his money in a big way. Probably not as much as I'm giving it credit for since I watch almost every video he makes each day the last few months and I'm not alone, but TimmyCastIRL is going to lose 2/3 super chats and folks that join. I'm mostly through tonight's episode, and I'm not SMASHING the LIKE button :(
I think he does realize the risk and it is part of his reason to move so quickly to pull in lots of guests.
same here
No MAGA no peace!
We all know that Crigler dicked down Lydia the cutie and Tim was like nah thats not cool bro, we not supposed to be fucking the producer even tho she fine as hell. So Crigler was like "U lil pussy I'll make my own show"
I suspect this is accurate.
I bet youtube made tim do it or Adam wanted HIS money...remember the other day he said he was tallying up the donations made to him. What if tim wanted to take all the money to build his new Utopia, lol just speculating
Oh I thought maybe Adam fucked Tim’s girlfriend or something LOL your theory sounds good too
I bet Adam fucked Tim's producer.
It’s the drawback of swallowing the red pill: being irresistible to women.
Did you see tims face for like a second when he said that? It was the "dude, dont fucking say that when were live, ive already told you no" face.
I'm willing to bet that is what it was, i remember thinking OH SHIT... i have to go back and see tims face, good suggestion.
it was when Adam was talking about the MAGA thong if i remember correctly. Tim told him to start a GoFundMe and he said it around the same time, not sure if it was the same show. but it was within the last few weeks.
To be fair, Tim is trying to resurrect unbiased journalism and Adam doesn't fit the bill.
...but that's what his solo uploads are for. Adam was a way forward to expand his business to achieve his dream. Adam is like a year away from eating protein for gains in case he has to fight off the commies and the metamorphosis was/is incredibly entertaining to watch.
sayhisname!
There can only be one.... Beanie.
He was making Tim put on the MAGA beanie. Not to mention Tim spends 18 minutes of a 20 minute video virtue signaling and ranting about "born in Chicago" or "I'm 1/1024th Korean". Tim is his landlord, boss, and friend all rolled into one. I'm sure Tim enjoys the power.
Adam is like the person who discovers The_Donald for the first time and starts taking the red pill. He suck down too many red pills at once and start spewing shit at people anywhere at anytime. It was worse for Adam since he was doing it on youtube. There was a show in the past couple of weeks where Adam had literally ODed on redpills... they weren't even pills anymore-- it was intravenous liquid red... anyhow, he started basically saying that regular people should riot and stand up for what they believe in. It was right on the cusp of advocating for violence, and I'm sure Tim freaked about it. I like Adam, but he's gotta learn to handle his redpills.
Typical lefty doesnt want to give up power. Adam didnt want to stay in line I'm guessing
and just like that another Trump supporter gets cut
"Personal" and "dirty laundry" make it sound like a woman or women were involved... Perhaps one day, we'll find out.
It's a shame. I like the dynamic between Tim and Adam. I kinda feel like Adam was overtaking Tim to some degree in terms of his political leaning. Adam ended up being further right of Tim. I think that made it harder for Tim to push a certain narrative.
All you have to do is look at the likes on tonight's episode and know the show is going to crash
It's like when the Tek Syndicate crashed and burned back in 2015.
Wait.. what happened?
He was shot fatally after wearing his MAGA beanie into a starbucks.
For real? Oh, he was kicked off Tim Pool's podcast
He "left" the podcast. We have no real information about the circumstances of his departure or whether he left on his own or was forced out.
got too red pilled for Tim's middle of the road stance, Tim really doesn't want to get cancelled by the left
Soooo.. Tim is a spineless pussy. Got it.
eh I get it though, if he was able to turn this Trump hating hippy towards the right, I would prefer Tim to stay in the middle. Even if he is doing it for his own sake, he is great at opening peoples eyes that would shut off anyone one that was slightly on the right
Exactly, exposure to pro-Trump content from anti-Trump personalities is the reddest pill of all. The more Tim claims neutrality, the more credence he has with the haters.
100%
It's funny how he always speaks out against cancel culture and tells people to stop being afraid and stand up against the left. Saying stuff like it's better to stand up and take the consequences than say nothing and let Trump lose. If that's what really happened then it's TOTALLY hypocritical...
True, but Tim plays a fence sitter, mostly edging towards the right. He is an asset, centrists and some on the left trust him. If he can turn this hippy to a MAGA hat wearer, it is better he stay where he is and let Adam move on to greatness...Can't push open peoples eyes when you get shut down
https://i.redd.it/h3g77lqg6tg51.jpg
That's a shame, I liked the back and forth with him and Tim. I actually told my husband the other night that I liked Adam more than Tim sometimes because he wasn't afraid to get off the fence meanwhile Tim seems wishy-washy a lot of the time.
Until new information comes out I’m going to take Tim at his word. I’m not going to get mad on just a hunch or a feeling alone.
Hope Adam lands on his feet
For anyone who cares I've been a real autist about this situation.
So in conclusion, i think youtube pressures channel thru producer lydia (who tim simps for more than anything)
Dislike everything!
F LOL
Adam is like a more passionate, but less academically intellectual version of Styxhexenhammer. Adams music is pretty cool too.
What bothered me the most was that Tim would shoot down Adam comments with "No"s even when Adam was trying to support or agree with what Time was saying. MANY of the "No"s absolutely could have been "Yes, and"s but Tim just had to keep saying "No"
:/ If I had a time machine I would reach Tim the phrase "Yes, and"
This so much. Ive been pointing out this behavior for months and knew it would mess things up. It was condescending as fuck. "No no no listen listen listen what is really happening is whatever I say"
Adam leaving for one reason or another seemed inevitable to me.
I've been a Tim fan for years... but this behavior came out on URL and Tim really could have cut it out.
I have no idea what the drama is, but if Tim is really going to bring on rotating guests, then it’s better that Adam leaves and branches out. I like Adam’s deep dives and music, he can do well with that. But having guests works better when they’re 1 on 1 plus a fact checker. Either way, I hope Adam frequents as one of the guests and continues to collaborate with Tim.
I think this was likely strategy to grow the brand as a solution to whatever issues they had growing together.
Adam was getting more popular and probably wanted a piece of the pie or a bigger voice on the show, and Tim's a smart guy, so why not just make a second channel and support each other? Very, very common for popular YT'ers to have multiple channels.
New studio is 30 feet away
TimCastIRL + AdamCastIRL
If they continued to do shows together while having separate channels as well, then people probably just don't check Adam's channel and continue to just watch Tim and get their Adam every once in a while on there.
Plus they can just go back together in the future at any time for any reason.
It's not cheating with Lydia or anyone else, or the new studio wouldn't be 30 feet away still.
He was establishing a hype routine. When it's routine, it doesn't work. It becomes as dross as a pun in r/askreddit. You also can't just keep increasing the hype when it just means smashing a pillow in an increasingly theatrical fashion or figuring out how to double-click an air duster. That's Gallagher shit. He's like carrot top but with a soul and not funny. He was a hype man. It's an appeal to emotion. It has limits and it was going to limit the show. You can talk about serious shit and turn around and smash a pillow, but that's going to make it hard to be critical of media or do anything other than preach to the choir. He is a newb at being redpilled and couldn't really contribute much intellectually besides a fresh view of a non-bitter-vet.
Tim seems like an anal retentive control freak but that's probably just his repetitiveness anger and Ben Shapiro voice. Kyle Kalinski voice. He has to have something up his ass to have reservations at this point.The collateral damage is surprising. Guests will be more sustainable than Adam was. He could create an army of Adams.
I think Tim views him as a direct competitor for the same audience. So he can't have him on and have it be like a promotion for his (Adam's) show.
on the beginning of last nights timcast IRL stream, tim stated that:
(paraphrased)
If you look at Adam's Instagram, it seems like he wants to cover cultural stuff more - music, games, art, etc. Dunno if he pushed Tim and Lydia to do more of that with the show and they weren't feeling it or what, but people really need to learn how to post about restructuring to not make things seem like a complete falling-out. Also they should allow Adam one more episode to let people know what's going on and what he'll be up to the next room over.
TBH Adam often interrupted Tim while Tim was in the middle of a train of thought, and I found it pretty irritating. Responding to a momentary rhetorical question with a needlessly drawn-out answer, that sort of thing.
That said, without Tim, Adam is really interesting. Also, without Adam, Tim remains really interesting.
I think they'll do much better independently. They can both get their thoughts out without stepping on each other's toes. I'll happily watch both.
I liked the back and forth. Listening to two hours of Tim droning on would get so monotonous I'd never be able to watch it. And he has plenty of time in his solo videos. The interaction is what makes a show better (Crowder's show does this).
Tim said on his YouTube channel that Adam leaving has nothing to do with Tim or money. Most think it was an argument with Lydia and Adam just said “whatever I’m out.”
Shit happens. Creative partnerships break up all the time. Both are still doing stuff on the 'net. I see this as a big nothingburger.
really cant stand this soyjesus gammyboy glad he left tonights stream was better imo
Is this Tim?
Found Tim's accounts
LOL, almost fell over laughing, can't believe I got to the last comments on a post...lol
Still love ya Tim, nice SP.
I was warming up to the guy.
come on you cant say his SMASH THE LIKE BUTTONS STITCK was good well if you do you have a higher cringe tolerance than me but ya im glad he is a trump fan for sure but damn cringeboy
Don't hate the player hate the game. That dumb cringe shit worked. Streamers need the interactions and if you can come up with something catchier than "thumbs up like and subscribe" then you'll find your content being pushed via the algorithm which literally makes you more money.
I liked the "smash" schtick. He clearly was taking the piss out of the whole thing.