"A woman could have one foot into the door of an abortion clinic, and someone wrecks their car and hits her. She survives, but the baby doesn't. The driver would get a charge for manslaughter at the very least"
A life shouldn't be extinguished simply because it's inconvenient or simply not wanted. That's literally murder.
I midget could roundhouse kick a pregnant mother's belly, and that's murder. The same mother can have someone insert scissors into her to dismember growing baby and vacuum it out of her, and it's pro choice. Can't explain that.
The left's counter argument will be "her body, her choice". They are absolutely convinced that mothers should be allowed to kill their own offspring as long as it's still inside her body.
So, 'her body, her choice', but then if the father wants to keep it, tough shit, he's got no say in the matter, but then if the mother wants to keep it, dad better prepare for a lifetime of having his wages garnished for child support (unless he's black, in which case he's scot free and mom will just soak the taxpayers for WIC, SNAP, welfare, free school lunches and now also breakfasts, etc. etc. etc.). Yep. seems reasonable.
it really is often the other way around. Women rarely choose to get abortions, its the father and families who do the choosing for them. If abortions were not legal, they would not be able to pressure mothers into them. In the rare case that the woman has sufficient agency to get an abortion, yes, if the father says no she can say "well it's my choice and my body" etc. But it's mostly irrelevant and conceals the fact that abortions are not about a woman's choice, but about getting rid of inconvenient children.
I have a lot of problems really coming to any firm conviction on abortion, at least early abortion. It's funny because it's not because of knowing how much I really don't know. All the philosophy, morality, biology, etc is one thing.
The problem I have is when I'm standing in front of one of these feminist maniacs if I were their mother and I knew how they turned out I would surely want to abort. I find it difficult to reconcile with that.
babies are innocent. that feminist maniac is a result of a bad upbringing and a corrupt culture
if you knew, ahead of time, that your baby was going to grow up to be a deranged leftist, there are a number of solutions and abortion isnt really one of then.
There's a spiritual and moral debate but in principle as I see it if you reached the point of needing an abortion then that's a fuck up.
When I got to buy a phone they try to make me buy insurance for if I accidentally drop it. I usually don't bother but if I did it wouldn't be an excuse to be reckless.
If I drop it then I still fucked up even if there's insurance. People today don't think like that.
They are paying not for the psychological comfort of what might happen if they are careful but the worst happens. They're paying for the psychological comfort of being careless.
I wouldn't trust such people with anything. When talking to them their arguments for abortion show they're not psychologically equipped to confront that kind of situation. It's all just based on mantras and the feelgoods of you can do anything you want because it's your body.
Another argument applies. It's my brain, I can use it how I like, including not at all. Liberals today are so self privileged they feel the burden of responsibility is beneath them.
People have the conviction that "life is sacred" but life...the biological definition of life...is not. Unchecked growth for the sake of growth is cancer, by definition in an individual, and we see populations explode until resource scarcity hits and then they plunge back down. That kind of life is not all that great.
There are thousands of people hooked up to ventilators and other machines in hospitals right now that are "alive" yet these people have no chance for recovery. They are being kept alive for their family's sake so that they can have closure seeing them one last time, or to keep them alive to later harvest their organs for transplant. And when those organs do get transplanted, we never put them into old decrepit bodies that have no chance of leaving a hospital or being healthy again. We put them into people that have a chance to experience the world and make use of it.
Life is beautiful and precious. But it's the kind of life that can feel, can think, can sing and dance, play and experience. Simply existing is not the life we hold sacred, but the two get mixed up all the time. So while it can be sad for a potential life to never happen (as in the case of an abortion), it's not as sad as an actual life ending prematurely (like the NC boy who was shot by his neighbor).
I'll put a challenge to any pro-lifer out there, that if they had to choose between me dumping a zygote from a test tube into a trash can, or smashing a 5 year old boy's head in with a hammer (you have to pick one in this hypothetical or I'll just do both cause I'm crazy(!))...I know which one they are going to rather me "kill". It is not the same. Nowhere close. Destroying a life that cannot feel, think, experience, has no memory...just because it's "alive" doesn't make it equal to a living, breathing, conscious being with actual thoughts and autonomy.
It is a difficult problem because there is no clear delineation. Because of this, I don't support late term abortions or even midterm, but early term I do. When it is literally "a clump of cells" it is just not important to me. I don't value it the way I do a born person and I see nothing wrong with it.
What/if a fetus feels things is knowledge that is impossible to have.
A quora post is about the worst source you can bring. Its just a random persons opinion.
And you are clearly being deceptive, as how old does the fetus have to be? Please answer in detail. Does a 7 week old fetus have feelings? And if not, do you now agree with me? Somehow, I don't think you would.
I don't know if you missed it, but I said I was against late term abortions. So are you really trying to claim embryos can feel?
I’d kill you because you clearly have no respect for the transcendent sanctity of life that our society is based on. What a half-assed argument to base your view of human worth on. Seriously in what anarcho-communist phase of your life did you concoct that addle-brained worldview? The moment you dehumanize you lose everything. Everything. Gas chambers are the end game. Seriously cauterize the edgy teen from your personality and re-approach the argument from square one.
That has more to do with immediate perceptions of life. If you were tasked with saving either a plate of fertilized zygotes or a box of crickets, most people would save the zygotes.
A born human "appears" more alive than an unborn one, but that doesn't make an unborn child not alive and human in the same sense as a born one. I imagine you agree with this because you likely have some issues with killing an unborn child that is one day away from being born.
More importantly, why are conservatives pushing for prolife so hard even in Dem majority areas?
Let their population reduce, I know you're trying to take the high road with every life is precious and equal, but after seeing what brainwashed people are capable of, there might actually be less suffering if you nip it in the bud.
Don’t think that it’s always kids of left that become so staunch. It’s very very often kids of very conservative people and they’re either rebelling or indoctrinated at school. School is the problem not left breeding. Welfare breeding is a problem and I’d be in favour of forced birth control for serial welfare cases. However not abortions. Abortions just let people get pregnant thirty times. It’s not a proper solution. It’s a very grotesque and inhumane answer to the problem and really we can do better.
This isn't true actually. Criminal defense attorney here.
There is a specific crime for battering a woman and causing the pregnancy to terminate. The victim in this case is the mother. The death of the fetus is an element of the crime but the fetus isn't the victim.
I handled (and won) a case dealing with alleged harm to a fetus/newborn many years back and the case law treats fetuses as non-persons for the purposes of victimhood. It's been black letter law for like 30 years at this point. Back during the crack epidemic of the late 80s/early 90s, prosecutors tried to prosecute crackheads for child abuse when they gave birth to crack babies. This got shut down by the courts because fetuses aren't children/people yet so you can't abuse one.
Yeah it wasn't intended to be a comprehensive survey of every jurisdiction, mainly because I can't be bothered. If you can find an example to the contrary, please let us know.
I know in blackstone's commentaries, aborting a quickened fetus was considered manslaughter, but that is 200+ year old common law. I don't think any US jurisdictions currently deal with the situation that way (causing a miscarraige = murder of fetus).
I always quote Dr. Ron Paul in these situations.
"A woman could have one foot into the door of an abortion clinic, and someone wrecks their car and hits her. She survives, but the baby doesn't. The driver would get a charge for manslaughter at the very least"
A life shouldn't be extinguished simply because it's inconvenient or simply not wanted. That's literally murder.
I midget could roundhouse kick a pregnant mother's belly, and that's murder. The same mother can have someone insert scissors into her to dismember growing baby and vacuum it out of her, and it's pro choice. Can't explain that.
What if the midget is the abortion doctor and he has scissors in his hands?
Govornor Northam recommends having the baby first, making it and the mother comfortable.
Then he'll call the midget a couple of days later to kill the baby.
Northam probably
Edward, is that you?
What if the midget is named Ditka?
The left's counter argument will be "her body, her choice". They are absolutely convinced that mothers should be allowed to kill their own offspring as long as it's still inside her body.
So, 'her body, her choice', but then if the father wants to keep it, tough shit, he's got no say in the matter, but then if the mother wants to keep it, dad better prepare for a lifetime of having his wages garnished for child support (unless he's black, in which case he's scot free and mom will just soak the taxpayers for WIC, SNAP, welfare, free school lunches and now also breakfasts, etc. etc. etc.). Yep. seems reasonable.
This.
it really is often the other way around. Women rarely choose to get abortions, its the father and families who do the choosing for them. If abortions were not legal, they would not be able to pressure mothers into them. In the rare case that the woman has sufficient agency to get an abortion, yes, if the father says no she can say "well it's my choice and my body" etc. But it's mostly irrelevant and conceals the fact that abortions are not about a woman's choice, but about getting rid of inconvenient children.
If time machines are ever invented, someone should convince the parents of everyone in planned parenthood to abort them to save other babies.
Would love watching their heads explode from that.
And if the woman changes her mind later, is the doctor now a rapist and a murderer?
I have a lot of problems really coming to any firm conviction on abortion, at least early abortion. It's funny because it's not because of knowing how much I really don't know. All the philosophy, morality, biology, etc is one thing.
The problem I have is when I'm standing in front of one of these feminist maniacs if I were their mother and I knew how they turned out I would surely want to abort. I find it difficult to reconcile with that.
We need some serious late term abortion here lol
Governor *Northam: "and then after the baby is delivered, a discussion would ensure..." For up to 2 weeks after birth.
It's on youtube. Post-birth abortions. That's Virgina governor KKK blackface.
Northum=Va
Governor Blackface
Newsom =Ca
Governor Fuckface
Mills=Maine
Governor Cuntface
90% of Belgian healthcare professionals (51% of whom are physicians) support killing new born children.
20% of those 90% supported killing totally healthy babies based on maternal psychological problems
13% of those 90% supported killing totally healthy babies based on maternal socio‐economic problems
Doctor: Can you afford to raise this kid?
Mother: Not really
Doctor: OK, we can kill it for you if you want.
https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/aogs.13967
Why even stop after 2 weeks? That's just an arbitrary number. If you can make the case for 2 weeks, you can make the case for 3, or 7, or 12...
Disgusting
That's different. Those are post-birth abortions.
That’s what post birth abortions are for (see Virginia).
In all seriousness, the issue is how these idiots were raised. All babies are born un-indoctrinated and full of potential.
They're parents where it seems like either way no matter what they do it results in a waste of life.
babies are innocent. that feminist maniac is a result of a bad upbringing and a corrupt culture
if you knew, ahead of time, that your baby was going to grow up to be a deranged leftist, there are a number of solutions and abortion isnt really one of then.
There's a spiritual and moral debate but in principle as I see it if you reached the point of needing an abortion then that's a fuck up.
When I got to buy a phone they try to make me buy insurance for if I accidentally drop it. I usually don't bother but if I did it wouldn't be an excuse to be reckless.
If I drop it then I still fucked up even if there's insurance. People today don't think like that.
They are paying not for the psychological comfort of what might happen if they are careful but the worst happens. They're paying for the psychological comfort of being careless.
I wouldn't trust such people with anything. When talking to them their arguments for abortion show they're not psychologically equipped to confront that kind of situation. It's all just based on mantras and the feelgoods of you can do anything you want because it's your body.
Another argument applies. It's my brain, I can use it how I like, including not at all. Liberals today are so self privileged they feel the burden of responsibility is beneath them.
People have the conviction that "life is sacred" but life...the biological definition of life...is not. Unchecked growth for the sake of growth is cancer, by definition in an individual, and we see populations explode until resource scarcity hits and then they plunge back down. That kind of life is not all that great.
There are thousands of people hooked up to ventilators and other machines in hospitals right now that are "alive" yet these people have no chance for recovery. They are being kept alive for their family's sake so that they can have closure seeing them one last time, or to keep them alive to later harvest their organs for transplant. And when those organs do get transplanted, we never put them into old decrepit bodies that have no chance of leaving a hospital or being healthy again. We put them into people that have a chance to experience the world and make use of it.
Life is beautiful and precious. But it's the kind of life that can feel, can think, can sing and dance, play and experience. Simply existing is not the life we hold sacred, but the two get mixed up all the time. So while it can be sad for a potential life to never happen (as in the case of an abortion), it's not as sad as an actual life ending prematurely (like the NC boy who was shot by his neighbor).
I'll put a challenge to any pro-lifer out there, that if they had to choose between me dumping a zygote from a test tube into a trash can, or smashing a 5 year old boy's head in with a hammer (you have to pick one in this hypothetical or I'll just do both cause I'm crazy(!))...I know which one they are going to rather me "kill". It is not the same. Nowhere close. Destroying a life that cannot feel, think, experience, has no memory...just because it's "alive" doesn't make it equal to a living, breathing, conscious being with actual thoughts and autonomy.
It is a difficult problem because there is no clear delineation. Because of this, I don't support late term abortions or even midterm, but early term I do. When it is literally "a clump of cells" it is just not important to me. I don't value it the way I do a born person and I see nothing wrong with it.
The fetus has emotions and can feel what the mother is feeling. https://www.quora.com/What-emotions-can-a-baby-feel-when-inside-the-womb?share=1
What/if a fetus feels things is knowledge that is impossible to have.
A quora post is about the worst source you can bring. Its just a random persons opinion.
And you are clearly being deceptive, as how old does the fetus have to be? Please answer in detail. Does a 7 week old fetus have feelings? And if not, do you now agree with me? Somehow, I don't think you would.
I don't know if you missed it, but I said I was against late term abortions. So are you really trying to claim embryos can feel?
I’d kill you because you clearly have no respect for the transcendent sanctity of life that our society is based on. What a half-assed argument to base your view of human worth on. Seriously in what anarcho-communist phase of your life did you concoct that addle-brained worldview? The moment you dehumanize you lose everything. Everything. Gas chambers are the end game. Seriously cauterize the edgy teen from your personality and re-approach the argument from square one.
It sounds like you have no problems dehumanizing anyone that disagrees with you.
Pot, meet kettle.
?
That has more to do with immediate perceptions of life. If you were tasked with saving either a plate of fertilized zygotes or a box of crickets, most people would save the zygotes.
A born human "appears" more alive than an unborn one, but that doesn't make an unborn child not alive and human in the same sense as a born one. I imagine you agree with this because you likely have some issues with killing an unborn child that is one day away from being born.
I straight up said I dont agree with late term abortion. Did you miss that part?
More importantly, why are conservatives pushing for prolife so hard even in Dem majority areas?
Let their population reduce, I know you're trying to take the high road with every life is precious and equal, but after seeing what brainwashed people are capable of, there might actually be less suffering if you nip it in the bud.
Because they actually believe that it is murder.
Shouldn't people be opposed to murder, no matter what?
You do realize that Trump was born in a city right?
Don’t think that it’s always kids of left that become so staunch. It’s very very often kids of very conservative people and they’re either rebelling or indoctrinated at school. School is the problem not left breeding. Welfare breeding is a problem and I’d be in favour of forced birth control for serial welfare cases. However not abortions. Abortions just let people get pregnant thirty times. It’s not a proper solution. It’s a very grotesque and inhumane answer to the problem and really we can do better.
Wtf. That is some truly, truly horrible shit right there.
This isn't true actually. Criminal defense attorney here.
There is a specific crime for battering a woman and causing the pregnancy to terminate. The victim in this case is the mother. The death of the fetus is an element of the crime but the fetus isn't the victim.
I handled (and won) a case dealing with alleged harm to a fetus/newborn many years back and the case law treats fetuses as non-persons for the purposes of victimhood. It's been black letter law for like 30 years at this point. Back during the crack epidemic of the late 80s/early 90s, prosecutors tried to prosecute crackheads for child abuse when they gave birth to crack babies. This got shut down by the courts because fetuses aren't children/people yet so you can't abuse one.
Is that specific to your state? I imagine there has to be a state with different laws for that.
Yeah it wasn't intended to be a comprehensive survey of every jurisdiction, mainly because I can't be bothered. If you can find an example to the contrary, please let us know.
I know in blackstone's commentaries, aborting a quickened fetus was considered manslaughter, but that is 200+ year old common law. I don't think any US jurisdictions currently deal with the situation that way (causing a miscarraige = murder of fetus).
What if it was her abortion doctor that hit her rushing to make the appointment?