I have a lot of problems really coming to any firm conviction on abortion, at least early abortion. It's funny because it's not because of knowing how much I really don't know. All the philosophy, morality, biology, etc is one thing.
The problem I have is when I'm standing in front of one of these feminist maniacs if I were their mother and I knew how they turned out I would surely want to abort. I find it difficult to reconcile with that.
babies are innocent. that feminist maniac is a result of a bad upbringing and a corrupt culture
if you knew, ahead of time, that your baby was going to grow up to be a deranged leftist, there are a number of solutions and abortion isnt really one of then.
There's a spiritual and moral debate but in principle as I see it if you reached the point of needing an abortion then that's a fuck up.
When I got to buy a phone they try to make me buy insurance for if I accidentally drop it. I usually don't bother but if I did it wouldn't be an excuse to be reckless.
If I drop it then I still fucked up even if there's insurance. People today don't think like that.
They are paying not for the psychological comfort of what might happen if they are careful but the worst happens. They're paying for the psychological comfort of being careless.
I wouldn't trust such people with anything. When talking to them their arguments for abortion show they're not psychologically equipped to confront that kind of situation. It's all just based on mantras and the feelgoods of you can do anything you want because it's your body.
Another argument applies. It's my brain, I can use it how I like, including not at all. Liberals today are so self privileged they feel the burden of responsibility is beneath them.
People have the conviction that "life is sacred" but life...the biological definition of life...is not. Unchecked growth for the sake of growth is cancer, by definition in an individual, and we see populations explode until resource scarcity hits and then they plunge back down. That kind of life is not all that great.
There are thousands of people hooked up to ventilators and other machines in hospitals right now that are "alive" yet these people have no chance for recovery. They are being kept alive for their family's sake so that they can have closure seeing them one last time, or to keep them alive to later harvest their organs for transplant. And when those organs do get transplanted, we never put them into old decrepit bodies that have no chance of leaving a hospital or being healthy again. We put them into people that have a chance to experience the world and make use of it.
Life is beautiful and precious. But it's the kind of life that can feel, can think, can sing and dance, play and experience. Simply existing is not the life we hold sacred, but the two get mixed up all the time. So while it can be sad for a potential life to never happen (as in the case of an abortion), it's not as sad as an actual life ending prematurely (like the NC boy who was shot by his neighbor).
I'll put a challenge to any pro-lifer out there, that if they had to choose between me dumping a zygote from a test tube into a trash can, or smashing a 5 year old boy's head in with a hammer (you have to pick one in this hypothetical or I'll just do both cause I'm crazy(!))...I know which one they are going to rather me "kill". It is not the same. Nowhere close. Destroying a life that cannot feel, think, experience, has no memory...just because it's "alive" doesn't make it equal to a living, breathing, conscious being with actual thoughts and autonomy.
It is a difficult problem because there is no clear delineation. Because of this, I don't support late term abortions or even midterm, but early term I do. When it is literally "a clump of cells" it is just not important to me. I don't value it the way I do a born person and I see nothing wrong with it.
What/if a fetus feels things is knowledge that is impossible to have.
A quora post is about the worst source you can bring. Its just a random persons opinion.
And you are clearly being deceptive, as how old does the fetus have to be? Please answer in detail. Does a 7 week old fetus have feelings? And if not, do you now agree with me? Somehow, I don't think you would.
I don't know if you missed it, but I said I was against late term abortions. So are you really trying to claim embryos can feel?
I’d kill you because you clearly have no respect for the transcendent sanctity of life that our society is based on. What a half-assed argument to base your view of human worth on. Seriously in what anarcho-communist phase of your life did you concoct that addle-brained worldview? The moment you dehumanize you lose everything. Everything. Gas chambers are the end game. Seriously cauterize the edgy teen from your personality and re-approach the argument from square one.
You are either extremely bad at defending your principles, incapable of discourse or a troll. I’m leaning the latter. If you can’t see that you are using classic fallacies to support your truth you are an idiot. You went train track/joker fallacy into straw man.
You leveled a retarded “challenge”. Inserted your crazy behind into it. You credibly (or else the argument doesn’t work) threatened to kill one or more people in a crazed state. And asked how I a pro-lifer would respond. The answer is snuff you or anyone else that would do that right out. Amazing that you can can justify killing what we can at least agree is a potential for life but me taking yours in order to save lives is considered “dehumanizing”. How can you possibly make those to things add up in your wise secular mind. Nice jump to assuming that my disagreement with you over this is indicative of my disagreements with literally anyone else in my life. If you want bedrock principle to lay your preference for killing humans on pick a better one or deal with being called an imbecile.
That has more to do with immediate perceptions of life. If you were tasked with saving either a plate of fertilized zygotes or a box of crickets, most people would save the zygotes.
A born human "appears" more alive than an unborn one, but that doesn't make an unborn child not alive and human in the same sense as a born one. I imagine you agree with this because you likely have some issues with killing an unborn child that is one day away from being born.
More importantly, why are conservatives pushing for prolife so hard even in Dem majority areas?
Let their population reduce, I know you're trying to take the high road with every life is precious and equal, but after seeing what brainwashed people are capable of, there might actually be less suffering if you nip it in the bud.
I'm not sticking up for abortion, if that's what you're getting at. My point is that conservatives were losing the 'optics' of the abortion debate when the leftists were making actual arguments for early abortions- in rape cases etc- making the lie that we're misogynists who don't care about female autonomy.
When they kept pushing the envelope- abort if you feel like it, abort if you change your mind mid pregnancy, it all got pushed through easily since the conservatives were the 'misogynists that hate womens' rights'.
Now that we're finally at the point of full term abortions, even some leftists are wondering about the morality of it- we could have reached this point even earlier if the conservative side hadn't pushed back early, probably leading to a quicker resolution of this whole business, probably saving more lives. Leftists were always going to get abortions and nothing conservatives said would have changed it. Letting them slide down the slippery slope unchecked until even they go "WTF" might have been the better call.
You murder the future when you do that. That's why. One mother from a shitty place can give birth to the next great genius of our time who revolutionises the world for the better.
You're gambling on the off chance that you get something good out of allowing people who don't want children(really not the best parents) while it's more likely that it's going to lead to more broken families, single parents, and childhood trauma, with the obligatory welfare to support them, leading to the next generation of the same stuff. And who do they vote for?
It's arrogant, short sighted, and inhumane to presume you know enough to kill the future for one innocent life.
Look at it this way: let's say 99.99% of children who get in Hollywood are sexually molested. The 00.01% of them become great stars and bring joy to the world. Would you keep sending kids there?
Maybe I'm completely off on the numbers regarding whether people who were forced to have a baby are good parents, I'd love to see some sources.
That's what people don't understand. And we ceded this battle for too long. That's how we have full-term abortion and even the idea of post-birth abortion.
I'm not very old, but I'm old enough to remember when the argument for abortion was for early-term based on the formation of the fetus and the (I believe erroneous) belief that it wasn't yet a person until X time. That's all out the window now. It's contempt for innocence, contempt for children, contempt for humankind. It's sick and evil.
When you're trying to save the children of people who are trying(and succeeding) in destroying your world with their moronic views, leading to your side being demonised for 'misogyny' and 'anti-women' stances, I really don't see the value in that.
Don’t think that it’s always kids of left that become so staunch. It’s very very often kids of very conservative people and they’re either rebelling or indoctrinated at school. School is the problem not left breeding. Welfare breeding is a problem and I’d be in favour of forced birth control for serial welfare cases. However not abortions. Abortions just let people get pregnant thirty times. It’s not a proper solution. It’s a very grotesque and inhumane answer to the problem and really we can do better.
Agree completely, birth control should be the most important step. However when you pay welfare based on the number of kids you have, that kinda goes out the window.
I have a lot of problems really coming to any firm conviction on abortion, at least early abortion. It's funny because it's not because of knowing how much I really don't know. All the philosophy, morality, biology, etc is one thing.
The problem I have is when I'm standing in front of one of these feminist maniacs if I were their mother and I knew how they turned out I would surely want to abort. I find it difficult to reconcile with that.
We need some serious late term abortion here lol
Governor *Northam: "and then after the baby is delivered, a discussion would ensure..." For up to 2 weeks after birth.
It's on youtube. Post-birth abortions. That's Virgina governor KKK blackface.
Northum=Va
Governor Blackface
Newsom =Ca
Governor Fuckface
Mills=Maine
Governor Cuntface
I get their names confused all the time. Not much of a difference in terms of policy.
90% of Belgian healthcare professionals (51% of whom are physicians) support killing new born children.
20% of those 90% supported killing totally healthy babies based on maternal psychological problems
13% of those 90% supported killing totally healthy babies based on maternal socio‐economic problems
Doctor: Can you afford to raise this kid?
Mother: Not really
Doctor: OK, we can kill it for you if you want.
https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/aogs.13967
Why even stop after 2 weeks? That's just an arbitrary number. If you can make the case for 2 weeks, you can make the case for 3, or 7, or 12...
Just call it a "late post-term abortion" and go for years, why not?
Dems will find a way if we don't stop them.
The new Cultural Revolution will call deaths in the name of Communism, "abortions."
"Wrongthinkers" will be "aborted."
Absolutely right. Why can't I just fucking murder my 21 year old son and say its an abortion? Fucking bullshit if you ask me.
Disgusting
That's different. Those are post-birth abortions.
That’s what post birth abortions are for (see Virginia).
In all seriousness, the issue is how these idiots were raised. All babies are born un-indoctrinated and full of potential.
They're parents where it seems like either way no matter what they do it results in a waste of life.
babies are innocent. that feminist maniac is a result of a bad upbringing and a corrupt culture
if you knew, ahead of time, that your baby was going to grow up to be a deranged leftist, there are a number of solutions and abortion isnt really one of then.
There's a spiritual and moral debate but in principle as I see it if you reached the point of needing an abortion then that's a fuck up.
When I got to buy a phone they try to make me buy insurance for if I accidentally drop it. I usually don't bother but if I did it wouldn't be an excuse to be reckless.
If I drop it then I still fucked up even if there's insurance. People today don't think like that.
They are paying not for the psychological comfort of what might happen if they are careful but the worst happens. They're paying for the psychological comfort of being careless.
I wouldn't trust such people with anything. When talking to them their arguments for abortion show they're not psychologically equipped to confront that kind of situation. It's all just based on mantras and the feelgoods of you can do anything you want because it's your body.
Another argument applies. It's my brain, I can use it how I like, including not at all. Liberals today are so self privileged they feel the burden of responsibility is beneath them.
People have the conviction that "life is sacred" but life...the biological definition of life...is not. Unchecked growth for the sake of growth is cancer, by definition in an individual, and we see populations explode until resource scarcity hits and then they plunge back down. That kind of life is not all that great.
There are thousands of people hooked up to ventilators and other machines in hospitals right now that are "alive" yet these people have no chance for recovery. They are being kept alive for their family's sake so that they can have closure seeing them one last time, or to keep them alive to later harvest their organs for transplant. And when those organs do get transplanted, we never put them into old decrepit bodies that have no chance of leaving a hospital or being healthy again. We put them into people that have a chance to experience the world and make use of it.
Life is beautiful and precious. But it's the kind of life that can feel, can think, can sing and dance, play and experience. Simply existing is not the life we hold sacred, but the two get mixed up all the time. So while it can be sad for a potential life to never happen (as in the case of an abortion), it's not as sad as an actual life ending prematurely (like the NC boy who was shot by his neighbor).
I'll put a challenge to any pro-lifer out there, that if they had to choose between me dumping a zygote from a test tube into a trash can, or smashing a 5 year old boy's head in with a hammer (you have to pick one in this hypothetical or I'll just do both cause I'm crazy(!))...I know which one they are going to rather me "kill". It is not the same. Nowhere close. Destroying a life that cannot feel, think, experience, has no memory...just because it's "alive" doesn't make it equal to a living, breathing, conscious being with actual thoughts and autonomy.
It is a difficult problem because there is no clear delineation. Because of this, I don't support late term abortions or even midterm, but early term I do. When it is literally "a clump of cells" it is just not important to me. I don't value it the way I do a born person and I see nothing wrong with it.
The fetus has emotions and can feel what the mother is feeling. https://www.quora.com/What-emotions-can-a-baby-feel-when-inside-the-womb?share=1
What/if a fetus feels things is knowledge that is impossible to have.
A quora post is about the worst source you can bring. Its just a random persons opinion.
And you are clearly being deceptive, as how old does the fetus have to be? Please answer in detail. Does a 7 week old fetus have feelings? And if not, do you now agree with me? Somehow, I don't think you would.
I don't know if you missed it, but I said I was against late term abortions. So are you really trying to claim embryos can feel?
Maybe you should research it yourself. https://www.lifenews.com/2020/01/20/scientist-confirms-unborn-children-feel-pain-during-abortions-as-early-as-12-weeks/
https://www.boldsky.com/pregnancy-parenting/prenatal/2018/what-are-the-emotions-that-your-baby-can-feel-in-the-womb-124341.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/199809/fetal-psychology
https://www.romper.com/p/can-babies-feel-your-emotions-in-the-womb-they-experieince-more-than-you-think-25741
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111110142352.htm
https://www.hellomotherhood.com/the-emotional-development-of-the-baby-in-the-womb-12212638.html
I’d kill you because you clearly have no respect for the transcendent sanctity of life that our society is based on. What a half-assed argument to base your view of human worth on. Seriously in what anarcho-communist phase of your life did you concoct that addle-brained worldview? The moment you dehumanize you lose everything. Everything. Gas chambers are the end game. Seriously cauterize the edgy teen from your personality and re-approach the argument from square one.
It sounds like you have no problems dehumanizing anyone that disagrees with you.
Pot, meet kettle.
You are either extremely bad at defending your principles, incapable of discourse or a troll. I’m leaning the latter. If you can’t see that you are using classic fallacies to support your truth you are an idiot. You went train track/joker fallacy into straw man.
You leveled a retarded “challenge”. Inserted your crazy behind into it. You credibly (or else the argument doesn’t work) threatened to kill one or more people in a crazed state. And asked how I a pro-lifer would respond. The answer is snuff you or anyone else that would do that right out. Amazing that you can can justify killing what we can at least agree is a potential for life but me taking yours in order to save lives is considered “dehumanizing”. How can you possibly make those to things add up in your wise secular mind. Nice jump to assuming that my disagreement with you over this is indicative of my disagreements with literally anyone else in my life. If you want bedrock principle to lay your preference for killing humans on pick a better one or deal with being called an imbecile.
Deport.
?
That has more to do with immediate perceptions of life. If you were tasked with saving either a plate of fertilized zygotes or a box of crickets, most people would save the zygotes.
A born human "appears" more alive than an unborn one, but that doesn't make an unborn child not alive and human in the same sense as a born one. I imagine you agree with this because you likely have some issues with killing an unborn child that is one day away from being born.
I straight up said I dont agree with late term abortion. Did you miss that part?
That simply reinforces my point.
At what point does the baby go from "human life worth preserving because it has human experiences" to "just a clump of cells, no loss if it dies"?
More importantly, why are conservatives pushing for prolife so hard even in Dem majority areas?
Let their population reduce, I know you're trying to take the high road with every life is precious and equal, but after seeing what brainwashed people are capable of, there might actually be less suffering if you nip it in the bud.
I'm not sticking up for abortion, if that's what you're getting at. My point is that conservatives were losing the 'optics' of the abortion debate when the leftists were making actual arguments for early abortions- in rape cases etc- making the lie that we're misogynists who don't care about female autonomy.
When they kept pushing the envelope- abort if you feel like it, abort if you change your mind mid pregnancy, it all got pushed through easily since the conservatives were the 'misogynists that hate womens' rights'.
Now that we're finally at the point of full term abortions, even some leftists are wondering about the morality of it- we could have reached this point even earlier if the conservative side hadn't pushed back early, probably leading to a quicker resolution of this whole business, probably saving more lives. Leftists were always going to get abortions and nothing conservatives said would have changed it. Letting them slide down the slippery slope unchecked until even they go "WTF" might have been the better call.
You're gambling on the off chance that you get something good out of allowing people who don't want children(really not the best parents) while it's more likely that it's going to lead to more broken families, single parents, and childhood trauma, with the obligatory welfare to support them, leading to the next generation of the same stuff. And who do they vote for?
Look at it this way: let's say 99.99% of children who get in Hollywood are sexually molested. The 00.01% of them become great stars and bring joy to the world. Would you keep sending kids there?
Maybe I'm completely off on the numbers regarding whether people who were forced to have a baby are good parents, I'd love to see some sources.
Because they actually believe that it is murder.
Shouldn't people be opposed to murder, no matter what?
That's what people don't understand. And we ceded this battle for too long. That's how we have full-term abortion and even the idea of post-birth abortion.
I'm not very old, but I'm old enough to remember when the argument for abortion was for early-term based on the formation of the fetus and the (I believe erroneous) belief that it wasn't yet a person until X time. That's all out the window now. It's contempt for innocence, contempt for children, contempt for humankind. It's sick and evil.
When you're trying to save the children of people who are trying(and succeeding) in destroying your world with their moronic views, leading to your side being demonised for 'misogyny' and 'anti-women' stances, I really don't see the value in that.
You do realize that Trump was born in a city right?
Was he an unwanted child who was forced upon his parents by the lack of abortion services?
I'd say he would have turned out way worse if his parents didn't want him and were forced to raise him.
Don’t think that it’s always kids of left that become so staunch. It’s very very often kids of very conservative people and they’re either rebelling or indoctrinated at school. School is the problem not left breeding. Welfare breeding is a problem and I’d be in favour of forced birth control for serial welfare cases. However not abortions. Abortions just let people get pregnant thirty times. It’s not a proper solution. It’s a very grotesque and inhumane answer to the problem and really we can do better.
Agree completely, birth control should be the most important step. However when you pay welfare based on the number of kids you have, that kinda goes out the window.
Regarding the schooling system 100% agree.