Recently found out my employer is planning to make a policy to prefer hiring non white people. This isn't a job like acting or something where they should have any valid legal claim to discriminate in this way. So far it's just been announced and I guess not officially implemented but I'm wondering if anyone knows if a current employee would have grounds to sue over this? My understanding is that this is highly illegal and in violation of Federal law.
I've been thinking about getting a lawyer but I know a lot of lawyers tend to be liberal and I only would want to work with someone who I know holds similar values to myself, does anyone know of a resource for finding a conservative employment lawyer?
Soon it will become a crime to just have been born white.
I feel like it already is lol
Not a whole lot changed since when this was written in 1984. Guilty.
Well, one thing changed. Universities minted far more regressive studies degrees than the market has demand for. The result is a massive oversupply of graduates with no where to go for a job. So they busy themselves developing shake-down schemes and extortion to create jobs for themselves. We're in the process of that over-supply breaking our markets and collapsing on itself.
Sophistry is beginning with a conclusion, and busying yourself writing papers to try and support that foregone conclusion. In China if you take a degree on Communist Studies you start with conclusion that Communism Is Good. Any deviation from that is heresy and results in death by 1000 knives by a whole system discarded by any other conclusion. Grievance studies are exactly the same. All those degree are discredited the moment the original sin of 'oppression' has been remedied and true equality is realized. That's what we're fighting.
It's simpler to think of them of bandits. I don't care why the bandit feels justified to take everything that belongs to me. That's a transgression. You have to defend yourself. As we break the stigma of being called racist through over-use, that becomes easier to defend.
No hysteric sense of resentment justifies racist or bigoted attack on those of good character.
If you listen to Moldberg at all there's argument that with ejection of Christianity and organized religion, Aristotelian virtues were accidentally ejected as well. When religion was a bigger thing in the West, Aristotle was regarded as 'THE' philosopher. His virtues underlay all the thought there. When God Is Dead we've got people who apparently need to hold onto something grabbing onto weird ideologies to fill that gap. You can spot the discrepancy in the terrible comics woke puts out. At their core hero stories tend to take an Aristotelian virtue as part of their character, a paragon of that virtue. Woke comic characters display villain traits because they've deconstructed those virtues and wind up with hot garbage, opposite of them in most cases to their blissful ignorance.
Great points I totally understand what you mean about them trying to fill a void left by their betrayal of God
you need to speak with Project Veritas immediately. You also want to take photographs or keep saved copies of those documents.
"Come forward. We will protect you. Securely contact us at [email protected]. Or anonymously message or call us on Signal at 914-653-3110."
Ok thanks I'll check it out I'm familiar with them but hadn't thought to contact them
It might behoof you to just submit an anonymous tip to prevent retribution from your employer and likely any future employer.
The only indication of this policy that I have is from internal documents that aren't available to the general public so I'm worried that by submitting evidence to the feds may give me away. I am going to look for another job also but it's a lot more difficult these days with everything else going on. I'm not sure if the company is going to be dumb enough to eventually make the policy public or if they're just going to express it in internal communication
Ok thanks yes that's kinda what I thought I'm hoping a lawyer can further hash out what's possible
Recommend tuning in to listen to and read James Lindsay to learn to speak the language of these sophists, and better rebut their demands. Particularly his recent Joe Rogan interview from a few months ago touches on the legal risk of organizations caving to demands may be useful to persuade companies to knock it off.
As you've surmised, constant subjective demands means it's never good enough. No matter how far an HR department caves to demands there will be a new generation or another person entitled and insistent that it's not enough. Resentment is the engine of atrocity. It's all downhill until the target is destroyed, and you can always slice off a new 'out-group' when new target is needed.
Taken to extreme the outright discrimination leaves no option but for whites to start suing. Abuse lawfare at the smallest misstep to establish a cease fire through mutually assured destruction. There are examples of this, for example there's cases where police sued over hiring standards that resulted in ruling that non-whites were unfairly selected by discriminatory hiring practice.
I've read that currently there's not many lawyers that will take these cases. I'm not providing legal advice, but speculate that may be shifting due to the egregious over-steps we're seeing.
Generally organizations are hit with numerous shake-down efforts trying to find slices of demographics data to sue the company. HR departments may need to respond to data requests trying to slice data in many ways to find a favorable metric. This many at-bats aren't statistically sound, you can always massage your metric or data to get to the desired outcome and that's exactly what we see subjective driven sophists do to prove foregone conclusion.
Result of this is that most companies today are over-loading their recruiting targets to try to fill headcount demographics to match their local population. This fails to account for available qualifications, not everyone will be qualified to fill those available roles. This fails to account for stay-at-home considerations for those with families. You'll often see labor or lower paid roles turned a blind eye to with single-minded obsession of building 'equity' in the highest paid or powerful positions. Their key-risk-indicator targets are unrealistic. Every company is trying to stuff in more diversity than exists in the market and every one of them fall short of that goal.
This is where future lawsuits may find traction. Basing suit on measures such as disproportionate hiring in cases where at least one POC and one non-POC applied. Probe average time to promotion. Can test out cases such as disproportionate hiring based on qualifications available in an area. Can get creative with the metrics to find a slice the company is not monitoring.
Awesome answer thanks I'm gonna read through this a couple times
Ok. Not a lawyer. Not legal advice. Just a guy who's been around.
You might have a chance (small chance) to turn their own game against them. But it is highly unlikely. Like infinitely unlikely. Nevertheless, here are some lines of thought that most employers, regulators, administrators, and lawyer-types think about.
In recent years, administrative agencies and courts have used a statistical test to determine if bias or discrimination is present in an employer as to acts of hiring, firing, promotion, pay, etc. They look to see what is the racial composition within a certain distance of the employer (say, what is the racial composition of the city in which the employer is located) and then they compare that external racial composition to the internal racial composition of the employer.
In other words, if the community around the employer is 60% black but the employer worker population is 60% white, then the statistical disparity is taken as evidence of discrimination EVEN IF no specific acts of discrimination can be proved. That statistical test may be enough of a basis to initiate an action for the aggrieved party (in this scenario, the aggrieved party is the excluded 60% black population around the employer), but such a statistical test is a long long way from prevailing in a cause of action. I know this is not the scenario you are considering but you get the idea how some of the thinking goes.
So to look at it from the other direction, hiring a handful of minority candidates into a company that is 70% white does not prove discrimination against whites. Indeed, failing to redress a racial imbalance may imperil the company legally, socially, and otherwise.
Individual hiring decisions are inherently complex and variable and even if a company says they are using affirmative action to promote minority hiring it does not cross a legal line as an aggregate proposition. The more salient proposition for you is if you specifically, as an individual, are being discriminated against. You individually may end up in a situation where you are discriminated against but that doesn't prove the company as a whole is discriminatory.
So, to turn the game against them, you would have to gather all the statistical analysis you can, covering a period of years, that reveals the various employment patterns are inherently, statistically, discriminatory againt whites and that you are part of that class and you have suffered specific injuries because of it and have standing to sue. Whew. That's a whole lot of "nuh-uh that ain't never gonna happen". Sorry. Just saying the deck is incredibly stacked against you.
There's another wrinkle here. If the employer has any federal business, any federal contracts, then you can file a complaint with the Office of Federal Contract Compliance (OFCC). That office conducts regular audits and can audit any time it chooses to any employer performing a federal contract. And they look at the whole company, not just the proportion of the company that is covered by the contract. An OFCC audit scares the shit out of companies because some nasty things can happen as a result of a failed audit, not to mention the loss of the federal contract. Federal law prohibits racial discrimination (although it is usually used to favor minorities). Nevertheless, the mere threat of being accused of discrimination can be enough to scare the management into playing nice. You willing to throw the dice? You willing to become visible as the complainant? Ready to feel the scorching sun of a thousand angry lawyers coming after you? Cuz they will. Oh, yeah.
Having said all that, the odds are hugely, humonguously, infinitely stacked against you as a single individual, white, male, middle aged or over, of prevailing in any sort of action. That's why a lawyer won't touch this. Unless you have deep pockets and don't care how much you spend (millions). If it was easy to prevail, it would be happening all across the country in all sorts of industries (e.g., fired engineer from company "name rhymes with Poogle"). The burden of proof now is not on the company to prove they are not discriminatory. The burden of proof is on the complainant to prove there are concrete acts of discrimination. And companies have a million ways from Sunday to slide around that issue.
It's complicated.
Your best bet is to document yourself and ask for documents commending your good work, attendance, attitude, all that. Keep all your performance reviews. Keep any emails your bosses send you that says you do a good job. Keep records of all training, formal and informal. Keep records of all pay actions you receive or do not receive (if the merit pool for pay increases is 4% and you get 2% - document that). Immediately address any performance deficiencies pointed out to you and try to get a document or email that says you have satisfied the deficiency.
Play smart. Never complain or argue about perceived discrimination. Rather, couch your conversation in terms of how much more you want to do for the good of the company and how you especially want to work on diverse teams and to mentor anybody new coming in who needs a little extra support. Get that all nicely documented, it's a bit of a firewall you may be able to use later if you get accused of being hostile to minority new hires. Make it very very hard for them to discriminate against you when it comes time for promotion or pay decisions.
Never use any company equipment, like computers or phones or chat channels, to say or do anything that suggests you are working on a complaint or that you are soliciting others to join in a complaint. Do all that shit far off campus and do it like James Bond or Ed Snowden. Everything you say and do is discoverable in a lawsuit, and they will come after you rather than lose to you and allow a precedent to be set (which could be used against them again in the future ad infinitum).
My best advice is to live your best life, follow your heart, be ready to move on at any time and start over or jump ahead a little bit. Life is way way way too short to get caught up in litigation. Never burn bridges. Never bad mouth a previous employer.
There's an old saying, "You marry your wife, but you are only engaged to your job". Keep your interest in your employer or in your role very very light and be ready to let it go at a moment's notice. You owe nothing to your employer except a fair day's work for a fair wage. Other than that, let it go. They, in turn, will owe you nothing, and will cut you loose with or without cause at any time. Life is full of very unfair situations.
The feeling of owning your own life and the feeling of peace of mind is worth far more than you could ever gain monetarily from litigation. I feel your grievance. I hate discrimination as much as the next Jane or Joe. Just focus on you and let the rest of the world worry about themselves. Good luck, fren.
Thanks, great reply. I realize there's a million ways they can discriminate without officially saying it and I have no interest in trying to prove that. The thing they did recently was to actually share in writing the intention to give preference to non-whites in hiring and I felt that was definitely crossing a line. I'll keep looking into it I appreciate the info you gave this is helpful
Can’t you just identify as black?
Not interested in playing their game rather I'm interested in bringing down as much pain as possible on them for their illegal activities
I know, I went for the cheap laugh. I agree an anonymous tip to a local or state employment agency may be the best way to test the waters without incurring expense or revealing your identity. Also, based friends may know of attorneys who share our views...good luck!
Sue them.
Would like to if I have a case