In 2016 I voted libertarian. I liked Trump but wasn’t 100% sold and didn’t have confidence in the establishment Republicans. Looking at the vote totals most states had Gary Johnson at 3%. In MN, for example, it was 3.8%.
Trump has been the most libertarian president we’ve had. That being said, I’m assuming most libertarians would switch to Trump for 2020, I certainly am. If that’s the case he’d pick up a few extra states while holding onto the ones he flipped. That mixed with the massive amount of people walking away from the dems we may be looking at a landslide victory.
I haven’t heard any commentators, or anybody, speak to this point. Is it just me? What do you all think?
Das it mane.
Libertarianism is a text book system that will not work. I get, we all like the thought, but it's a pipe dream in a real society.
As a whole, libertarians need to realize that only worrying about "muh money" will only work as long as society cares to play by the rules. Sure, people like you more if you say you're fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but if you're socially liberal for any length of time the ability to remain fiscally conservative is gone.
Honestly I don’t think a “libertarian system” even exists, a lot of fragmentation in the party. Ranges all the way from anarcho-capitalists to Mises-moderates.
A libertarian government would like like the Frankfurt assembly 1848. A mess, with no direction or focus of purpose.
Youre wrong. Libertarianism is basically USA early on.
Free immigration is fine if you dont have a socialist state. Just like the US used to have.
Any real libertarian would only want free immigration once the welfare state is finished otherwise it would just add to the size and waste of government thus taking away individual liberty and therefore going against the key idea.
Edit: I take back one point on youre wrong. I think youre pointing to the fact a country needs an underlying system of values. Ie liberty to work which the US had early on. Now its been crushed by the state so wothout the values we cant maintain a free society as easily. I think libertarians need to move the value system of the country more toward individualism and liberty before its possible. Ie people love the state so much cause they always imagine their guy in control.
Yep, libertarian-like ideas could work in the early US because the people were of similar thought process, beliefs, aspirations, etc. Kinda like how Sweden and places like that can (could) function fine with borderline socialism -- they had shared beliefs and were able to offset the systems failures because of this.
Today, in America, there is absolutely no place for libertarianism to prosper (unless implemented in small rural towns, etc.) Giving ground on social issues to people who do not care about the NAP or other decent-person principles of libertarianism is what assures its failure. It'll work with a group of similar, rational people who buy-in, but it will not work with millions of fragmented identity groups fighting for power without concern for how its acquired morally.
This is why I say that the ignoring social issues aspect of libertarianism because it's "not my business what others do" makes it a position inevitably doomed to failure. If those others are coming for the system you value, you have to be able to stand up against them.
Sweden is a free market economy, not a socialist country. But yes, their safety net works (for now) only because they are (were) an ethnostate that shared the same values and work ethic.
The quality of the people in a country is more important than how the society is organized.
As a person with significant libertarian leanings, I largely agree. Early America is exactly the model I'd like to bring back, but I've come to recognize that it's not practical as things presently sit. Thus I've shifted to being a straight-up conservative.
The one major vestige I've held onto is a deep suspicion for overseas adventurism, but in my mind, Trump strikes the perfect balance, here. Fucking America first, no more paying the bill for the entire world's defense, no new wars, but he kicked the shit out of ISIS. Seriously, he got it exactly right.
Politics is downstream from culture. Maybe if we fix American culture to where we have a sense of shared identity as countrymen (the Left's worst nightmare), we can see about revisiting my libertarian dreams. But that's likely to be a multi-generational project.
You think the Founding Fathers would have sat and watched if thousands of mosques where built in the US with foreign money?
Like it's happening in Europe today.
Libertarianism is an absurd utopia exactly like communism, and relying on the same principle: if everyone thinks exactly in this particular way, then society will prosper
Thats every systems problem... you need the underlying values of the particilar system or it will naturally change.
You cant have a conservative government if all the people value socialism. You cant have a communist government if all the people value freedom.
So your argument is like saying that cake tastes like shit cause you have the wrong ingredients. Add to that we have historic proof thay the use of those ingredients lead to the most delicious cakes ever.
Libertarianism is based on people being individuals. We also have all of history proving us right. As soon as a country moves towards libertarian ideals they become richer as soon as they move towards socialist ideals they become poorer.
History is absolutely crystal clear on that point so you are entirely wrong.
Libertarianism assumes people arent the same and the world is not perfect.
You really have a poor understanding of economic history.
That objectively does not work. If you import enough people of differing values, your underlying values change. It does not matter what your initial precepts were. The Libertarian sub on reddit being overtaken by commies is the best microcosm of that.
There are both economic and social ramifications to immigration.
Forgot to mention they also shouldn't get citizenship... for at least a couple generations. Thats one of the reasons that fucked Rome.