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Comments (137)
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175
The_Huscarl 175 points ago +175 / -0

If this isn't self-defense, then the concept no longer exists. We must band together behind him for all our freedoms.

88
PurestEvil 88 points ago +88 / -0

I remember when we made fun of Texans for being able to shoot people on sight if anyone enters their property, even if its a very vast land. But in a positive way - we always liked that concept.

Now you barely can even defend yourself against violent terrorists attacking you? That's not too different from Europe any more...

37
silvershibe 37 points ago +37 / -0

Vague laws cause unrest. People need to know exactly what they can or can’t do, and exactly what the consequences are for those actions.

We need clear laws like the one you mentioned. We also need to clearly define leading police on car chases as a deadly threat to the public, and allow immediate deadly force to stop them. I think the same argument could be made for fighting with police to resist arrest.

I don’t know when we all decided that Police should have to oil up and Greco-Roman wrestle every suspect for every arrest, but I don’t believe that’s in the job description. They should be able to politely ask you to put the cuffs on yourself, or be treated as a deadly threat. Complying with an arrest is not optional. The courts are there for your appeal.

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PurestEvil 16 points ago +19 / -3

I'm personally no fan of police. I'd much rather prefer maximized self-defence capabilities. The riots could never have taken place if people weren't completely disarmed and helpless, having to rely on the police who abandoned and betrayed them.

But sure, clear laws would be great, but there are 2 issues: Cases are often nuanced, sometimes complex - there can be many factors in play, and you want to judge people individually based on what they did. And the 2nd issue is that legislators, lawyers, courts all thrive from complexity in the law system. The harder it gets to be understood, the more people have to rely on lawyers, and the higher the scope of judge's sentences.

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deleted 15 points ago +15 / -0
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silvershibe 11 points ago +11 / -0

Police are a necessary part of the equation. We don’t live in a society of unlimited freedom. We impose our collective will on everyone through laws, and must have the ability to enforce compliance, or some wouldn’t comply.

The fact we’ve allowed non-compliance to become the rule, not the exception, is the problem. No criminal’s life is important enough that the cop should have to risk their life or injury to arrest you. It’s not worth a paper cut. You’d be surprised how quickly the resisting, running, etc would stop if they knew there would be no warnings, no tasers, no chase.

1
PurestEvil 1 point ago +3 / -2

It's not non-compliance that is the core at the problem. It's Marxism and Socialism and the subversive process that progresses towards them. People become degenerate, commit more crime, become more violent, or just generally get a lot of societal support for their bad behaviors.

No criminal’s life is important enough that

But the police doesn't know who is criminal or not. Knowing that with certainty is a luxury many do not have. There are also plenty of instances where people are treated unlawfully, are innocent, were just pranked or where cops are actually corrupt or intentionally abusive. Power corrupts, and that is true on ALL levels in society.

What you describe sounds almost like a Soviet Union type police state nightmare, where 100% obedience is demanded by default to the police and all authorities, even if they exert unconstitutional or unlawful actions. Resistance - be it passive or active - is an important concept, and also the reason why the 2A exists in the first place. The Democrat controlled states are TYRANNICAL right now. If you are part of their little group (BLM, Democrat, Antifa), you can do whatever you want. If you resist, you get persecuted. The police are ordered to stand back and let the Bolsheviks do whatever they want.

7
silvershibe 7 points ago +7 / -0

Police don’t need to prove their case for an arrest. That’s for the courts. They only need probable cause. You don’t get to “opt out” and decide when arresting YOU, they have to have a jury there ready to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

1
gummibarenaked 1 point ago +1 / -0

a handful of states have laws that allow citizens to use reasonable proportional force to resist an unlawful arrest.

But in reality, the usefulness of that law would be primarily as an affirmative defense. If the officer doesn't believe that her arrest is unlawful any such law granting citizens the right to resist an unlawful arrest doesn't grant the Defendant a magical shield of nonarrestability.

The Defendant is still potentially deceased with the cold comfort of a civil suit to provide future financial support for his family.

2
Deathlessly 2 points ago +2 / -0

Cops exist so that the law is more than just words on paper.

A civilian shooting another civilian because they say their rights were being violated by the other is just an argument. With guns.

When you get to a judge and they say that "yeah that guy is right", it means nothing if the judge just refers to the civilian to "take them away".

Make no mistake. Cops are the pointy end of the law. It's their job to implement consequences. It's the people's job to take tyrants off the seat of power.

0
PurestEvil 0 points ago +1 / -1

I am not saying the police should be abolished or is redundant. I am merely saying that an increase of power to the police as silvershibe suggested is not the right solution - letting people arm themselves however is (or rather stopping to disarm them so vehemently). Self-defence and deterrence are two major factors than can solve crimes before and when they occur.

I really won't want to deal with police who can just conveniently shoot me if I run away from them. What if I have a morally good reason or if it's amoral to persecute me for something they want to? And what if they just lie about me running away? Power corrupts.

"There is nothing to fear if you are innocent" is very naive, and is exactly what lead tens of millions of people in the Soviet Union and China to be arrested by some type of police and inevitably get shipped to gulags. They even arrested innocent people in hand's reach because they had to fulfill arrest quotas. And the arrest -> incarceration rate was 100%.

I am all for executing criminal scum - even thieves. But NOT by empowering the hand of the government.

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gummibarenaked 7 points ago +7 / -0

I've always wondered why schools don't have police officers come in and explain to kids exactly what's expected of citizens during an encounter with the police?

2
Block_Helen 2 points ago +2 / -0

Think about who runs the schools.

The Dems profit from racial unrest and from law enforcement not being able to do their jobs safely and effectively.

1
deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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gummibarenaked 2 points ago +2 / -0

I got all of this information from my dad when I was growing up. Dad wasn't much into sit-down formal talks or lectures. He looked us in the eye and told us how something was to be done and why it was to be done that way. It seemed to us that he was always watching. I remember once my brothers and I were out hunting with our new 4-10s. Somehow dad saw us crossing a fence in an unsafe manner. The moment we got back to the house, our 4-10s went into the hall closet for a week and we never did that ever again.

Nobody is watching the kids these days like they used to do. The kids know this. Worse, they're convinced that they're actually innocent so long as there were no witnesses.

1
OrenthalJamesObama 1 point ago +1 / -0

If the media and the left were truly woke, they’d make an effort to educate people on this. It isn’t like cops are just walking up and executing people (the reverse actually happens to some cops). It is ALWAYS the result of a struggle or unpredictable actions by the deceased.

3
GeoG85 3 points ago +3 / -0

Clown Laws are vague laws. This was expected, after all the clown shit that was going on. Us Conservatives, normal people, like good concrete laws to follow and teach our kids. Laws are originally meant and designed to help everyone involved, it's original purpose before corrupt infestation. But when it's clown show, anything goes, this person is in charge, now this person is in charge - it was only inevitable to collapse. :/ Imo*

3
based_trekkie 3 points ago +3 / -0

If you SHOOT AT or SHOOT someone on your property you do not want on your property either MAIMING OR KILLING THEM, and they are either:

  1. On Illegal Drugs

  2. Have had a FELONY conviction within the last 10 years

  3. A Current Fugitive from the Law.

  4. Are on probation for a Felony or VIOLENT misdemeanor.

  5. Or are Currently in the act of committing a violent crime ( sex assault included) or a property crime such a theft/burglary/armed robbery or crime against a minor.

THERE SHALL BE NO CHARGES AGAINST THE LANDOWNER.

PERIOD!!!

CASE FUCKING CLOSED!!!

If they are a FUGITIVE, the community leader should be FORCED TO GIVE YOU A FUCKING MEDAL TOO!

FUCKIN' PERIOD!

ONLY ONE CAVEAT -

IF YOU MISS THEM....

IT IS A 25 dollar FINE PER SHOT! Or you have to take a training course at a gun range!

2
based_trekkie 2 points ago +2 / -0

It should be called:

"SUICIDE BY ARMED LANDOWNER"

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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Dirk_Diggler 9 points ago +9 / -0

It's because we lost our freedom and are domesticated. Those that domesticate animals usually are selected for their docile nature or at least can be controlled. Strong willed and "problematic" animals are discarded. The ruling class is "domesticating" people. They will try and discard Kyle and make him an example so the rest of the sheep fall in line.

2
based_trekkie 2 points ago +2 / -0

This is SO fucking true, all my city co-workers are such docile domestic livestock, guess what party they vote for....

4
GGJanitor 4 points ago +4 / -0

Canada is the weak link in North America

1
eclectiledysfunction 1 point ago +1 / -0

I'm offensive and I find that very Canadian.

(Sorry btw, cheers from The North)

3
RandArrow 3 points ago +3 / -0

I remember when we made fun of Texans for being able to shoot people on sight if anyone enters their property,

Not true. We can only shoot them for refusing to leave. To not give them a running chance is unsportsmanlike.

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deleted 3 points ago +3 / -0
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Vektor45 5 points ago +5 / -0

I asked elsewhere in this thread but does anyone know how one might get involved in advocating for Kyle or helping collect defense funds, or anything else that can be done? Because I'd love to help in anyway possible as this story has finally pushed me to the edge of wanting to get out there and support Kyle, people like him, my country & my president... but I'm just young adult that doesn't really know where to start despite the drive and conviction to :/

1
deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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Croatan_man 2 points ago +2 / -0

where do I sign up? I'm willing to do or donate where I can

1
Dimocrat_Lies 1 point ago +1 / -0

Remember, self defense only applies inside your home as you’re already being beaten. You must use a nearby object as an improvised weapon because purchasing a weapon for home defense is premeditation.

44
Defender110 44 points ago +44 / -0

I want this sticker.

28
TheStoneOfSisyphus 28 points ago +28 / -0

Would you settle for a shirt ?

20
Defender110 20 points ago +20 / -0

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

10
TheStoneOfSisyphus 10 points ago +10 / -0

I got one being made. See my post above. Spreadshirt is a good print shop in Nevada that does a really good job with putting images onto shirts and so far at least, they haven't refused to do any shirt I've asked for, regardless of how "inflammatory" it may seem.

12
BeekeepingPatriot 12 points ago +12 / -0

“Sorry I can’t print your gay birthday cake T-shirt.” -said nobody who’s a businessman.

1
deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
4
majorpribluda 4 points ago +4 / -0

That's what you always tell me.

5
BeekeepingPatriot 5 points ago +5 / -0

Indeed! Or a flag

3
StarGirl 3 points ago +3 / -0

Proceeds should go to paying his legal fees.

2
Wanderlust 2 points ago +2 / -0

Any flag potential. Might be interested.

1
endofDrumpf 1 point ago +1 / -0

I might get this tattooed

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deleted 28 points ago +28 / -0
10
Sandman 10 points ago +10 / -0

Totally agree. Would make it perfect.

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uvontheterrible 23 points ago +23 / -0

How awesome would it be to see people waving these at rallys.

4
Rainman 4 points ago +4 / -0

NO STEP ON KED flag?

1
Deathlessly 1 point ago +1 / -0

No step on kid.

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Mcdaguc 18 points ago +19 / -1

I want this framed, on a wall next to the head of a communist! Bless you pede!

7
Mrs_Fonebone [S] 7 points ago +7 / -0

I only found this, I didn't make it. An anonymous person created it for all of us to enjoy and share!

6
Mcdaguc 6 points ago +7 / -1

Damnit, well take my upvote. Least I can do for this precious American art.

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
2
Mrs_Fonebone [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

Yes! Rescuing American one meme at a time!

16
AmannamedRJ 16 points ago +16 / -0

Pristine flag:

The Kenosha kid.

Killy the kid.

Kenosha Kyle

The baddest outlaw in the west a modern western hero.

Heres an idea that bag on him had medical supllies to help the protesters. Make sure to include the medical cross on the side.

Now he protects and defends. Aegis and sword. Purely American.

12
deleted 12 points ago +12 / -0
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anon572759 3 points ago +3 / -0

Motherfuckers with pipes chasing him, was hit by a fucking skateboard and kicked then gun grabbed AGAIN before he finally fired ONCE to stop the threat. Then "paramedic" tried to fucking execute him before firing again to stop the threat. Shits on video, and the video is already out. No sitting on it like with Floyd footage from Keith "Beats his fucking wife" Elison.

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deleted 11 points ago +11 / -0
1
gummibarenaked 1 point ago +1 / -0

Good. The Leftist organizations GFM and others of their ilk are very unreliable.

7
TheStoneOfSisyphus 7 points ago +7 / -0

I got a printshop to put it on a shirt for me. I should get it in on Monday, hopefully, and when I do I'll post pictures here of how it looks.

Here is a preview though of what I got though:

https://thedonald.win/p/GvPA35Um/dont-tread-on-me-tshirt-featurin/c/

If it turns out as well as the Herman Cain tribute shirt that I had the same print shop make then it should look great.

7
Eric-CIA-ramella 7 points ago +7 / -0

WRONG, RITTENHOUSE FLAG

Rittenhouse sounds much better, even if it's reimagined as a euphemism for your gun:

"Grab your Rittenhouse and take to the streets!"

Kenosha would be good as a verb:

"Dumbass went and got himself Kenosha'd last night."

2
Deathlessly 2 points ago +2 / -0

Someone should make a Rittenhouse AR tribute.

To those out there who had to pull the trigger when they were left with no choice other than die to a mob.

The Rittenhouse AR. Literally killing demons.

7
droden 7 points ago +7 / -0

Libs: this is a bad person! how DARE you defend him!
also Libs: blake was just an innocent man trying to break up a fight he wasnt armed and he was just trying to get into his car!

6
deleted 6 points ago +6 / -0
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deleted 5 points ago +5 / -0
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Pedeville 5 points ago +5 / -0

Dont skate on me

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deleted 4 points ago +4 / -0
4
Vektor45 4 points ago +4 / -0

How would one get involved in advocating for Kyle or collecting defense funds for him?

This story has had a big impact on me and really pisses me off and I'd really like to get involved in advocating for him or for people in similar situations. So if anyone knows than could you let me know.

4
CelesteD 4 points ago +4 / -0

I'd like to see the AR drawn more accurately, but this is still a great idea.

4
Ebbie8708 4 points ago +4 / -0

Thank god his is too young for college or he would be on the side of the people he shot. But even now, I really think he didn’t want to kill anyone.

Who knew that 2020 would lead us the most important self defense case in our lifetimes? On top of the businesses suing the fuck out of governors and the election, the most important year for citizen rights’ since 1865.

4
anon572759 4 points ago +4 / -0

Kid was cleaning graffiti off statues and treating the injured while protecting vital community infrastructure. This is a legitimate good guy with a gun. The media can fuck off and die in those mostly peaceful fires burning behind them.

3
Indianapede 3 points ago +3 / -0

That was some impressive defense while sitting on the ground. Get that boy in the marines.

2
anon572759 2 points ago +2 / -0

He wants to be a cop going by his pre-becoming a man by creating 2 good commies interview. He's definitely got the nerves for it.

3
SVT111 3 points ago +3 / -0

Civil War II has begun. May God help us and have mercy on our enemies. Amen.

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
2
james43552352345 2 points ago +2 / -0

Does anyone know where I can buy this flag? :)

2
NorCal2Ayyy 2 points ago +2 / -0

This needs to be made into a moral patch!

2
horsefacestorm 2 points ago +2 / -0

I'm finally feeling proud to be living in Kenosha again!

2
Judgejude 2 points ago +2 / -0

HERO. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

2
MechanicalMarvel 2 points ago +2 / -0

no step on kyle

2
Saltynips 2 points ago +2 / -0

Why did the AR get removed?

1
Mrs_Fonebone [S] 1 point ago +1 / -0

Nobody knows, but my personal guess is that it was done to make the image look old school like the Colonial Muskets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_infantry_weapons_in_the_American_Revolution

2
DeWaltJoggingHammer 2 points ago +3 / -1

I don't like it. It's a new flag, put the new gun on it. An AR-15 is just as much an American symbol as the bald eagle nowadays.

1
endofDrumpf 1 point ago +1 / -0

Is there an original with the AR?

2
JohnnyRico 2 points ago +2 / -0

high quality shiz right there.

2
deadghost0201 2 points ago +2 / -0
  1. Don't tread on me!
  2. Don't step on snek!
  3. No step!
  4. Don't!
  5. Ok! (CHOMP!)
2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
2
KeKHaM6_9 2 points ago +2 / -0

play a deadly game win deadly prizes...no respawns here!

2
MyNameIsMud 2 points ago +2 / -0

I legit want this on a flag in front of my house.

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
0
gummibarenaked 0 points ago +1 / -1

These are memes or "red pills".

Those of us with the Love of Jesus and the Gift of Photoshop generate these specifically for you to save and to share with others. Those that see them are affected and in this way, our work is done. I seldom spend more than 10 or 15 minutes on the OC. All I expect is that others will get an ironic chuckle and will post my OC to some other forum. I get a big kick seeing stuff I've made years ago still appearing on social media.

2
MAGAbeast2016 2 points ago +2 / -0

Shoot to kill in self defense

2
bck- 2 points ago +2 / -0

He has his medical equipment in that bag

2
LittleBlackKat 2 points ago +2 / -0

Yeah. This is good. Very good.

2
cbonez416 2 points ago +2 / -0

Remember we are dealing with inverted people. They are calling him a terrorist.. of course it was self defense!!

2
AmericanBoner 2 points ago +2 / -0

Who is making and selling these? Take my money

2
South_Florida_Guy 2 points ago +2 / -0

"YOU WERE WARNED"

2
gummibarenaked 2 points ago +2 / -0

It's my pleasure to present all my friends here with a short history lesson on this topic.

The Gadsen flag was one of the first casualties of the Obama administration's war on United States history under the fake guise of racism.

The Gadsen flag has always been widely known as a powerful populist symbol of American individualism and exceptionalism. It was completely not surprising when it began to appear at every Tea Party protests in 2009 (these were what "mostly peaceful protests" actually looked like). The Tea Party movement was the first of many organized efforts that began ringing the alarm bells early on regarding President Obama's fiscal policies. Experts and insiders in the US financial markets saw immediately that Obama's economic policies would be extremely damaging to the United States economy.

In spite, and out of political anger Obama first tried to do an end-run to get rid of the Gadsen Flag within the US military. But patriots sounded the alarm bells and now 'found out' that end run was scuttled.

It was a completely unrelated and remarkable coincidence [sarcasm HTML tag would go here if it existed] that the EEOC took up the issue of the Gadsen flag. The EEOC issued an bullshit decision that didn't even reach a conclusion that the Gadsen flag was a racist symbol (which could have then been appealed). Instead it created a huge litigation risk for anyone that raised the Gadsen Flag.

The absolute first Gadsen flag meme that -I- am personally aware of came out of the military. Patriots serving our country knew that this Obama-inspired decision to destroy the Gadsen Flag was pure bullshit and immediately rose to action. A badly drawn snake with the precise shade of background yellow as the Gadsen Flag with the message "No Steppa Snake" was drawn up in an army barracks by a Black Patriot. The badly drawn No Steppa Snake was picked over others that were artistically designed. It's completely in line with what the Gadsen Flag means. "Good luck trying to take us down".

I would love to be able to confirm the origin of the first Gadsen Flag meme. It will be absolutely glorious if it can be proven as true. Those that did this sort of thing had to do it quietly because they would have been punished under Obama. Hell, we are still being punished by Leftists for daring to support individuality and national exceptionalism.

Obama was disrespectful to tread on the Gadsen Flag. His disrespect awoke the underlying spirit of the Gadsen Flag. Now it is spreading even faster.

I hope you enjoyed learning about the Gadsen Flag. Feel free to cut and paste, forward, repost and share however you see fit.

Here's some additional sources for those of you that are interested:

https://www.military.com/kitup/2016/08/navys-dont-tread-on-me-patch-avoids-race-controversy.html

https://cei.org/blog/eeoc-gadsden-flag-lovers-shut-or-face-costly-lawsuits

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/wearing-dont-tread-on-me-insignia-could-be-punishable-racial-harassment/

1
Mrs_Fonebone [S] 1 point ago +1 / -0

Thanks for the history lesson! I knew some but I certainly didn't know all of that!

2
MW23232 2 points ago +2 / -0

OP, IDK if you made the meme of the Kenosha Flag, but it's awesome. You should send it to Kyle's legal team. They are very accessible, and Lin Wood started it I guess, and acquired services of Atty. John Pierce, who flew out last night (from California no less, for all those people who think everyone in CA is a "commie") and Pierce is assembling the legal team, I guess. But here are both of their Twatter screen names to send it are here, if you decide to. Also info on how to donate is on this Tweet if somebody wants that. Going to go look at that next, myself. https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1299366416026677248

2
Mrs_Fonebone [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

I didn't make it, an anonymous patriot made it to share. It belongs to anybody/everybody--so use it as you like!

2
Chalupamancer 2 points ago +2 / -0

Kenosha fag should be, "fuck around and find out!"

2
watamellon 2 points ago +2 / -0

Fuck yeah

2
Sup_squidy 2 points ago +2 / -0

If someone prints these I’m buying

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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MUDLORD 2 points ago +2 / -0

NEVER FORGET...THE KENOSHA KID!!!

1
Merks 1 point ago +1 / -0

This is wonderful. Do you have a pdf so we can make actual flags?

2
Mrs_Fonebone [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

Alas, no; the source is anonymous and there was only jpeg and png.

1
deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
-33
MonkeyCzarFunny -33 points ago +3 / -36

Kyle Rittenhouse is a misguided teen that tried to take the law into his own hands. He’s no hero.

11
LittleBlackKat 11 points ago +12 / -1

You're an idiot.

10
MakeLiberalsCryAgain 10 points ago +12 / -2

He's a patriot.

5
deleted 5 points ago +7 / -2
4
silvershibe 4 points ago +5 / -1

He’s a kid who put himself in a dangerous situation, prepared for it to go bad. Is it wise to go where he went? No. It’s why I don’t go for an evening stroll through the ghetto every night.

That said, nothing gives the shitheads the right to attack him, nor does he lose his right to self preservation, just because some shitheads didn’t like him.

This argument is just like blaming a rape victim, because she drank alcohol or wore a dress too short. Being at the protest is not a reason to be attacked.

-10
MonkeyCzarFunny -10 points ago +1 / -11

It’s not all like blaming a rape victim. It’s like blaming somebody who goes to a notoriously gay bathhouse with his dick out and then gets called a hero because he fought off someone who wanted to fuck him. Only in this case the bathouse was a riot, and his dick was an AR.

Rittenhouse wasn’t just out in his neighborhood playing ball in the street when he was attacked. He got out his gun, he drove across town, and he went to where he knew there would be a riot. And he went there with violence on his mind, so he got it. Not a victim or a hero.

5
poliphilosophy 5 points ago +5 / -0

Rittenhouse is a young kid who wanted to help as far as I can tell. He has volunteered for a fire department before, has some sort of EMT training (even if not much), can be seen multiple times on video offering people help or giving help, has been seen cleaning up graffiti left over by protesters. I think his willingness to help is much more clear than going there "with violence on his mind". I can guarantee you this kid idolizes firefighters and policemen, and I actually raise my own sons to be like that.

3
silvershibe 3 points ago +4 / -1

Wait, so I can’t go to a gay bath house and let my flag fly without expecting to be violently attacked and raped? That violent rape is my fault?

Are you actually saying defending myself by kicking/pushing my rapist away from me would be a crime against the rapist?

What the fuck?

-6
MonkeyCzarFunny -6 points ago +1 / -7

Nice try trying to mix two metaphors.

If you go to a gay bathhouse, and wave your dick around, and someone tries to suck it...you decide whether or not you get to let him. But you’re just not a hero for saying no. And you get zero of my respect for going there in the first place.

3
silvershibe 3 points ago +3 / -0

Deal, we won’t call him a hero since you’re agreeing that self defense was justified. We’ll just call him a kid who fought off his attackers.

1
RegularAmerican 1 point ago +1 / -0

Pedophile peice of shit criminal attackers! Way to go Kyle!!

0
humble_kekistani 0 points ago +1 / -1

A guy wanting to fuck you isn't a danger to society itself, roaming violent mobs on the other hand...

1
deleted 1 point ago +2 / -1