it's really against our interests to stop it early.
It's not early. It's late in the game. We're close to seeing the pot boil over already. I think what u/Pederrr is leaning toward is the idea that if we can stop them festering further, we have a chance to reverse course.
It may not seem like it to you, or indeed, even possible, but by the time there is violence in the streets targeting people based largely on their political leanings it's already too late.
We can stop this from becoming a full blown shooting war. Or not. I'd rather we nip this in the bud now, because you really do not want to go down that road.
War is ugly. Everyone thinks it's going to be some great cleansing, but I don't think we appreciate just how bad things could get when society breaks down and the killing starts.
Everyone is better off when we mitigate death and suffering. If we can continue America's turnaround those same ideological enemies we have now may be our brothers and sisters later
These rioters aren't volunteering for this. THEY ARE PAID. If there were no reward for these people they'd just as soon stay home and hang out with friends. Get rid of the funding and these rioting crowds would diminish rapidly. These people aren't going to pay for plane tickets to Kenosha from California just to take a chance of getting hurt, arrested, killed. They might travel up to an hour to engage in a protest that means something to them but otherwise, no.
You're strawmanning my argument. I said nothing about calming down the response and letting the left continue. In fact, these two comments are diametrically opposed.
What I said:
I'd rather we nip this in the bud now, because you really do not want to go down that road.
What you inferred I said:
you are right we should just calm it down and let the left continue on their path of societal erosion.
Now, we can continue to have a reasonable discussion on the merits of what was actually said or we can strawman and get nowhere.
If the latter, then I really have nothing else to add since everything I was thinking about this entire thread was already stated in my original post. I'm also not interested in having words put in my mouth.
I wish to start off by thanking you for a more thoughtful reply. I appreciate that.
You want to "nip it in the bud" which means a return to the status quo.
I don't think so. At least, I think that's a misinterpretation. I'm not completely sure what that would entail, but your suggestion at the end is a good solution along these lines.
The other option is limited violence to prevent the pot from boiling over, and given Kenosha, it looks as though a very real risk of death has two implications for the communists: 1) The riots/protests the following night were a bit more reserved since they realized their invulnerability can't continue and 2) with the murder of a Trump supporter in cold blood it also shows that they have no qualms about further escalation.
I think this particular bit can be halted without a full scale conflict, but there's almost no way to avoid the violence.
Deep state infiltration is a harder problem to resolve, and even a full scale war isn't likely to eliminate the infiltrators. It may be possible to resolve this with a generational solution. Remember, education didn't turn completely leftist overnight. The frog was boiled over decades of pushing schools further and further left. I think the same may be true for anti-Constitutional activists in government. Much the same as they played the long con to gain entry, it may be possible to reverse this process over similar timescales without violence.
I'm not saying it would be easy. It won't be. I'm not even sure it's possible. But I'm of a frame of mind that outright war is an absolute last resort that no one should be heading into without much thought.
Incidentally, it's unlikely to be limited just to the US. Where we go, other Western countries will no doubt follow and violence will rip through the world as a whole. It would likely be a World Civil War.
I agree there is no peaceful resolution possible. There is no blue State for us to yield. Pederrr said STAND UP to them, not appease them. This reversal of intimidation is necessary.
I kinda see both sides, and part of the problem is that as a society, there’s too many people out there that run to daddy government to solve their dispute and involve too much legal process when 2 people get in a punch up.
I mean, damn, even technically poking someone in the shoulder is considered assault for gods sake. I posit at least part of the reason these shrieking, entitled, arrogant, commie kiddos have become so emboldened is that nobody has ever given them an ass whuppin when they last tried their nonsense.
Why is this not done anymore? Because you so as much as throw water on the nearest one and the police arrest you for “assault”.
Be it “protesting”, waking up the dead in quiet neighbourhoods in the middle of the night (wake up mutha Fukka wake up!), several dozen fist raised white kids looming over 1 lone female diner on a patio, trump flag wavers getting their stand dragged off by 90 pound teenage girls, dindus walking into stores to calmly steal, commies going into restaurants to chant at diners etc.
Since today is so litigation obsessed, what you end up with is 2 lines of groups, loser commies on one side, normal patriots on the other, and it decends into a sad pushing/shoving match, with lots of cop out crap like pepper spray on both sides.
When punches start to get thrown, cops often intervene, make arrests on both sides before the patriots get the upper hand, and the commies don’t learn their lesson. AGAIN.
There was a time in the western world, where if any of this was tried, residents of a woken up neighbourhood would give the commie crowd a beat down they wouldn’t forget, the restaurant manager would be shoving them out, and patriots could both give and receive punches (and win) but most importantly, the police would either not really get involved unless serious, or not bother with charging anyone because you know lessons would be learned.
What I’m saying is this: if at least HALF of these commie LARPers had got a good lickin’ in the early days of the riots in Portland by fed up citizens (and all other rioting cities) and that no matter how many times the kids came out to riot, there was a greater amount of fed up citizens just wanting a quiet no noise night - giving out ANOTHER ass whuppin, I’m betting the Portland riots would dry up in less than a week.
The shooting by Kyle is a natural evolution of the problem not being solved naturally by neighbourhood ass kicking earlier. The hard left were not given or shown any red lines to cross. So they just get cockier and cockier until BLAM.
It shouldn’t have come to this. The 3 that got shot had their butts kicked, repeatedly ....UNTIL it got through their dumb heads, we may not be in this situation today.
If that “Shoot me Ni&&A” cretin got blasted in the face for being annoying, he might have had some sense knocked into him and been alive today.
But the Marxists ignored our warnings. They kept poking the bear.... poke...poke...poke. Well wahhh wahh wahh. The rattlesnake gave you plenty chances to back down. You’re playing with the big boys now commies. We have all the guns. Are you SURE you want to do this?
I don't have time to write a detailed reply, but suffice to say that I do agree with you.
The pot is boiling over. I'm not suggesting that no violence is the only answer. Violence is going to come, one way or the other, and it is going to get uglier as time goes on. I'm expecting the left to escalate and start attacking/killing innocent people or resorting to terrorist acts. It's just a matter of time.
The advantage in this case, though, is that it makes the position of the political left and the talking heads significantly more indefensible in the eyes of the general public. Maybe this is what we need for a reset.
The crux of my point is that I really don't want to see a civil war. I'm afraid we may already be well along that road to a point where it's irreversible. And, if we are, then I pray we do it right this time and eliminate the enemies who detest the US and the Constitution for good. But I really, really, really, really don't want us to go down that road, because the global political dynamics are such that I don't think we appreciate the consequences such a war might bring. u/Gadsden, in another reply to me, alludes to this point rather astutely, and I share his fears.
What may be necessary is for the pot to boil over just enough to teach the communists a lesson but not so much that we escalate into a full blown shooting war. Anyone wanting for the latter is a fool.
I think this outcome is much more likely. Rather than a large scale conflict, it seems more plausible that we'll reach a breaking point where something of this sort happens. Short, fast, and to the point.
Then it's over.
Rather than a protracted war that destroys infrastructure, something that's over quickly would serve to both a) make a point that their ilk will not be suffered any longer and b) that anyone who is aiding them is an enemy of the protectors of the Constitution.
It's coming.
I just hope that it'll be more along the lines of what you've entertained here. If so, then we may have a partial reset that's just enough to get us back to a point where wanton violence in the streets over criminals being shot by police is quickly forgotten.
Of course, I'm not entirely confident this will be true. I'm a Christian. I know how the story ends. It will get uglier than anyone could imagine. It's just a question of when.
Indeed. I posit as the doxxing of ordinary policemen and policewomen and other law enforcement continues, harrassment at homes etc, surely it's only natural that the local police department will take on an increasingly "fuck it" attitude and turn a blind eye to localised militias and or neighbourhood watch groups.
Nobody can seriously tell me that the PPD, CPD, APD, SFPD Seattle PD, LAPD have not, more often than not 'accidentally' not charged a few patriot citizens and releasing them around the corner after arrest, turned a blind eye to the commies getting their butt kicked for a while before stepping in etc.
Why? Surely they must know that patriots are as sick of the commie morons as they are. They are still human. They are going to at least subconciously side with the group where they know arent going to be stalking their houses at night or bricking their windows.
For this 'Tribal justice' to have full effectiveness, the police really should let the opposing lines scrap it out. The patriots will win, if given enough chance to if a local demonstration fight breaks out. The police know they cant win. If they step in, the commies throw bricks and poop at them, and risk injury, and also get demonised in the press.cSo....an appeal to police up and down the country. Let US do the job, let US get the first few licks in, if you give the patriot demos a bit of time, they will do more discouragement and life lessons to the commie kiddos than you are ever able to get.
Sure, step in if serious weapons are brought out, but for a fist fight? I THINK WE GOT IT FAM.
China would not be here in an instant. What, you think our navy just disappears the moment a civil war breaks out? China cannot get their troops to our shores. The best they could do is try to fund the communist side.
We really do have the best Anti Ship Missiles Folks! (Australia just put on a massive order with Uncle Sam, because we're not fucking around, and neither are they). Not just a Pep Rally(Although I'm often for it.) Our weapons range vastly exceeds theirs. BIG TROOP SHIP GO BLOOP! Any idea how big Naval Intelligence is??? We'll know they're loading ships, before they know they're loading ships.
Far be it for me to compliment the Swabbies, but as a Ground Pounder, my hat is off to The Lads riding the waves. Our Navy will FUCK CHINA'S LITTLE RED WAGON UP!
Have more confidence in what we've been working on for the past 2 Centuries. We came out as Top Dog after the Cold War. All that tech, all that spending, all those weapons systems, all the options that some of you have no idea even exist!
Gentlemen, and Ladies, Salute! To All Those Who Serve! And this one is for the US NAVY, and the US MARINES. They're Damned Salty! And you can bet your bottom dollar that they've got what it takes to obliterate any CHICOM threat on the High Seas.
Also: Please see this reference for Chinese Air Capabilities
It was more the point. So if our military has to go to war with China, Russia, and Middle Eastern guerrilla fighters, do you think that's good news while we all engage in civil war?
Don't presume to know what I think. You don't know me.
I expect the military to do its job and defend the Constitution as written. Hell, an invading force could prove to end the civil war quicker as there is a significant chance that both sides having a common enemy would unite the country faster.
What you want is fairy tales. Fairy tales don't exist. Time to wake up and smell the roses. At this point in American society, there is but one solution to the Marxist Left.
Dunno why you were getting downvotes, because you're right.
The instant we decay into massive civil unrest, the door is wide open for China to come marching in if we're too busy caught up in something domestic to pay much mind overseas.
Either that or they're going to use it as an opportunity to expand their influence further in our hemisphere than they already have.
Things like that only happen if we dawdle. If we finish it in one night our own military has no time to deploy, and we wind up with an intact military. THAT is what prevents foreigners from interfering.
it may be too late. All were seeing is the closing of the economy, the coordinated riots. we're not seeing the behind the scenes planning. This constant state of fear has been going on since trump was elected
except common knowledge of the problem. Boomers knew that central banks were a tool of the marxists and the kings, but very few nowadays do. it's starting to turn however
What do you base your statement that everybody used to know on? I was born in '64 and grew up in a world where the adults all asked each other what's wrong with the Country. Nobody knew. I found out by 1990, and began trying to redpill people. To say that did not go well would be overly optimistic. Ron Paul did wake people up and should be a National hero for it. NOW people realize what's going on, because the cabal operates out in the open, beginning in January. Most here talk openly about it. Never before has this been possible.
Discussion won't. I'm not ignorant enough to believe that.
Violence may be the only solution, but violence doesn't not necessarily equate to war. War is much uglier and not something one should entertain lightly.
It's not early. It's late in the game. We're close to seeing the pot boil over already. I think what u/Pederrr is leaning toward is the idea that if we can stop them festering further, we have a chance to reverse course.
It may not seem like it to you, or indeed, even possible, but by the time there is violence in the streets targeting people based largely on their political leanings it's already too late.
We can stop this from becoming a full blown shooting war. Or not. I'd rather we nip this in the bud now, because you really do not want to go down that road.
War is ugly. Everyone thinks it's going to be some great cleansing, but I don't think we appreciate just how bad things could get when society breaks down and the killing starts.
Everyone is better off when we mitigate death and suffering. If we can continue America's turnaround those same ideological enemies we have now may be our brothers and sisters later
These rioters aren't volunteering for this. THEY ARE PAID. If there were no reward for these people they'd just as soon stay home and hang out with friends. Get rid of the funding and these rioting crowds would diminish rapidly. These people aren't going to pay for plane tickets to Kenosha from California just to take a chance of getting hurt, arrested, killed. They might travel up to an hour to engage in a protest that means something to them but otherwise, no.
So why aren't you out there doing anything about it then? Sounds to me like you're either someone who talks big, or you're glowing.
You're strawmanning my argument. I said nothing about calming down the response and letting the left continue. In fact, these two comments are diametrically opposed.
What I said:
What you inferred I said:
Now, we can continue to have a reasonable discussion on the merits of what was actually said or we can strawman and get nowhere.
If the latter, then I really have nothing else to add since everything I was thinking about this entire thread was already stated in my original post. I'm also not interested in having words put in my mouth.
I wish to start off by thanking you for a more thoughtful reply. I appreciate that.
I don't think so. At least, I think that's a misinterpretation. I'm not completely sure what that would entail, but your suggestion at the end is a good solution along these lines.
The other option is limited violence to prevent the pot from boiling over, and given Kenosha, it looks as though a very real risk of death has two implications for the communists: 1) The riots/protests the following night were a bit more reserved since they realized their invulnerability can't continue and 2) with the murder of a Trump supporter in cold blood it also shows that they have no qualms about further escalation.
I think this particular bit can be halted without a full scale conflict, but there's almost no way to avoid the violence.
Deep state infiltration is a harder problem to resolve, and even a full scale war isn't likely to eliminate the infiltrators. It may be possible to resolve this with a generational solution. Remember, education didn't turn completely leftist overnight. The frog was boiled over decades of pushing schools further and further left. I think the same may be true for anti-Constitutional activists in government. Much the same as they played the long con to gain entry, it may be possible to reverse this process over similar timescales without violence.
I'm not saying it would be easy. It won't be. I'm not even sure it's possible. But I'm of a frame of mind that outright war is an absolute last resort that no one should be heading into without much thought.
Incidentally, it's unlikely to be limited just to the US. Where we go, other Western countries will no doubt follow and violence will rip through the world as a whole. It would likely be a World Civil War.
I agree there is no peaceful resolution possible. There is no blue State for us to yield. Pederrr said STAND UP to them, not appease them. This reversal of intimidation is necessary.
I kinda see both sides, and part of the problem is that as a society, there’s too many people out there that run to daddy government to solve their dispute and involve too much legal process when 2 people get in a punch up.
I mean, damn, even technically poking someone in the shoulder is considered assault for gods sake. I posit at least part of the reason these shrieking, entitled, arrogant, commie kiddos have become so emboldened is that nobody has ever given them an ass whuppin when they last tried their nonsense.
Why is this not done anymore? Because you so as much as throw water on the nearest one and the police arrest you for “assault”.
Be it “protesting”, waking up the dead in quiet neighbourhoods in the middle of the night (wake up mutha Fukka wake up!), several dozen fist raised white kids looming over 1 lone female diner on a patio, trump flag wavers getting their stand dragged off by 90 pound teenage girls, dindus walking into stores to calmly steal, commies going into restaurants to chant at diners etc.
Since today is so litigation obsessed, what you end up with is 2 lines of groups, loser commies on one side, normal patriots on the other, and it decends into a sad pushing/shoving match, with lots of cop out crap like pepper spray on both sides.
When punches start to get thrown, cops often intervene, make arrests on both sides before the patriots get the upper hand, and the commies don’t learn their lesson. AGAIN.
There was a time in the western world, where if any of this was tried, residents of a woken up neighbourhood would give the commie crowd a beat down they wouldn’t forget, the restaurant manager would be shoving them out, and patriots could both give and receive punches (and win) but most importantly, the police would either not really get involved unless serious, or not bother with charging anyone because you know lessons would be learned.
What I’m saying is this: if at least HALF of these commie LARPers had got a good lickin’ in the early days of the riots in Portland by fed up citizens (and all other rioting cities) and that no matter how many times the kids came out to riot, there was a greater amount of fed up citizens just wanting a quiet no noise night - giving out ANOTHER ass whuppin, I’m betting the Portland riots would dry up in less than a week.
The shooting by Kyle is a natural evolution of the problem not being solved naturally by neighbourhood ass kicking earlier. The hard left were not given or shown any red lines to cross. So they just get cockier and cockier until BLAM.
It shouldn’t have come to this. The 3 that got shot had their butts kicked, repeatedly ....UNTIL it got through their dumb heads, we may not be in this situation today.
If that “Shoot me Ni&&A” cretin got blasted in the face for being annoying, he might have had some sense knocked into him and been alive today.
But the Marxists ignored our warnings. They kept poking the bear.... poke...poke...poke. Well wahhh wahh wahh. The rattlesnake gave you plenty chances to back down. You’re playing with the big boys now commies. We have all the guns. Are you SURE you want to do this?
I don't have time to write a detailed reply, but suffice to say that I do agree with you.
The pot is boiling over. I'm not suggesting that no violence is the only answer. Violence is going to come, one way or the other, and it is going to get uglier as time goes on. I'm expecting the left to escalate and start attacking/killing innocent people or resorting to terrorist acts. It's just a matter of time.
The advantage in this case, though, is that it makes the position of the political left and the talking heads significantly more indefensible in the eyes of the general public. Maybe this is what we need for a reset.
The crux of my point is that I really don't want to see a civil war. I'm afraid we may already be well along that road to a point where it's irreversible. And, if we are, then I pray we do it right this time and eliminate the enemies who detest the US and the Constitution for good. But I really, really, really, really don't want us to go down that road, because the global political dynamics are such that I don't think we appreciate the consequences such a war might bring. u/Gadsden, in another reply to me, alludes to this point rather astutely, and I share his fears.
What may be necessary is for the pot to boil over just enough to teach the communists a lesson but not so much that we escalate into a full blown shooting war. Anyone wanting for the latter is a fool.
The left has already been killing innocent people. Just for being white.
This started on 5/26, Civil War. We can eliminate all Marxists in one night. Then we just have to hunt down high value targets.
I think this outcome is much more likely. Rather than a large scale conflict, it seems more plausible that we'll reach a breaking point where something of this sort happens. Short, fast, and to the point.
Then it's over.
Rather than a protracted war that destroys infrastructure, something that's over quickly would serve to both a) make a point that their ilk will not be suffered any longer and b) that anyone who is aiding them is an enemy of the protectors of the Constitution.
It's coming.
I just hope that it'll be more along the lines of what you've entertained here. If so, then we may have a partial reset that's just enough to get us back to a point where wanton violence in the streets over criminals being shot by police is quickly forgotten.
Of course, I'm not entirely confident this will be true. I'm a Christian. I know how the story ends. It will get uglier than anyone could imagine. It's just a question of when.
Indeed. I posit as the doxxing of ordinary policemen and policewomen and other law enforcement continues, harrassment at homes etc, surely it's only natural that the local police department will take on an increasingly "fuck it" attitude and turn a blind eye to localised militias and or neighbourhood watch groups.
Nobody can seriously tell me that the PPD, CPD, APD, SFPD Seattle PD, LAPD have not, more often than not 'accidentally' not charged a few patriot citizens and releasing them around the corner after arrest, turned a blind eye to the commies getting their butt kicked for a while before stepping in etc.
Why? Surely they must know that patriots are as sick of the commie morons as they are. They are still human. They are going to at least subconciously side with the group where they know arent going to be stalking their houses at night or bricking their windows.
For this 'Tribal justice' to have full effectiveness, the police really should let the opposing lines scrap it out. The patriots will win, if given enough chance to if a local demonstration fight breaks out. The police know they cant win. If they step in, the commies throw bricks and poop at them, and risk injury, and also get demonised in the press.cSo....an appeal to police up and down the country. Let US do the job, let US get the first few licks in, if you give the patriot demos a bit of time, they will do more discouragement and life lessons to the commie kiddos than you are ever able to get.
Sure, step in if serious weapons are brought out, but for a fist fight? I THINK WE GOT IT FAM.
Not to mention no one ever remembers our enemies when they talk about civil war. This isn't the 1800s. China would be here in a heartbeat.
Everyone seems to believe that our enemies will sit idly by while we murder one another.
China would not be here in an instant. What, you think our navy just disappears the moment a civil war breaks out? China cannot get their troops to our shores. The best they could do is try to fund the communist side.
Not defeated. Annihilated.
Let's use the term "Marxist." They do. Communist is too exclusive, and difficult to pin down in this environment.
We really do have the best Anti Ship Missiles Folks! (Australia just put on a massive order with Uncle Sam, because we're not fucking around, and neither are they). Not just a Pep Rally(Although I'm often for it.) Our weapons range vastly exceeds theirs. BIG TROOP SHIP GO BLOOP! Any idea how big Naval Intelligence is??? We'll know they're loading ships, before they know they're loading ships.
Far be it for me to compliment the Swabbies, but as a Ground Pounder, my hat is off to The Lads riding the waves. Our Navy will FUCK CHINA'S LITTLE RED WAGON UP!
Have more confidence in what we've been working on for the past 2 Centuries. We came out as Top Dog after the Cold War. All that tech, all that spending, all those weapons systems, all the options that some of you have no idea even exist!
Gentlemen, and Ladies, Salute! To All Those Who Serve! And this one is for the US NAVY, and the US MARINES. They're Damned Salty! And you can bet your bottom dollar that they've got what it takes to obliterate any CHICOM threat on the High Seas.
Also: Please see this reference for Chinese Air Capabilities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5yW1TGSiOU
It was more the point. So if our military has to go to war with China, Russia, and Middle Eastern guerrilla fighters, do you think that's good news while we all engage in civil war?
I thought not.
Don't presume to know what I think. You don't know me.
I expect the military to do its job and defend the Constitution as written. Hell, an invading force could prove to end the civil war quicker as there is a significant chance that both sides having a common enemy would unite the country faster.
They don't have the navy to do that, and this stupid point keeps getting brought up. You just want us to never fight back and to lose.
Oh yes, you caught me. I WANT to lose the culture war. Oh, yeah.
I'm so sorry, let me get out of the way so you can start murdering people.
Moron.
What you want is fairy tales. Fairy tales don't exist. Time to wake up and smell the roses. At this point in American society, there is but one solution to the Marxist Left.
What is the point of the Gadsden flag?
Dunno why you were getting downvotes, because you're right.
The instant we decay into massive civil unrest, the door is wide open for China to come marching in if we're too busy caught up in something domestic to pay much mind overseas.
Either that or they're going to use it as an opportunity to expand their influence further in our hemisphere than they already have.
Things like that only happen if we dawdle. If we finish it in one night our own military has no time to deploy, and we wind up with an intact military. THAT is what prevents foreigners from interfering.
I just don't see that happening. Guerrilla tactics are too easy to employ and too effective.
it may be too late. All were seeing is the closing of the economy, the coordinated riots. we're not seeing the behind the scenes planning. This constant state of fear has been going on since trump was elected
The behind the scenes planning has been going on since 1913. No plan is our main disadvantage. We have every other advantage.
except common knowledge of the problem. Boomers knew that central banks were a tool of the marxists and the kings, but very few nowadays do. it's starting to turn however
What do you base your statement that everybody used to know on? I was born in '64 and grew up in a world where the adults all asked each other what's wrong with the Country. Nobody knew. I found out by 1990, and began trying to redpill people. To say that did not go well would be overly optimistic. Ron Paul did wake people up and should be a National hero for it. NOW people realize what's going on, because the cabal operates out in the open, beginning in January. Most here talk openly about it. Never before has this been possible.
The problem is there is no other solution at this point other than war. You think some discussion is gonna change these Marxists minds? Hell no lol.
Discussion won't. I'm not ignorant enough to believe that.
Violence may be the only solution, but violence doesn't not necessarily equate to war. War is much uglier and not something one should entertain lightly.