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72
GingerMinky 72 points ago +75 / -3

What if, All the deaths we’ve had are totally a normal death count for the country for this period of time? And Covid is a complete hoax?

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kjj9 6 points ago +6 / -0

From that page:

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

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itsdangerous 28 points ago +28 / -0

people were immortal before covid, you didnt know?

when ppl hear thousands die they get scared. but thousand die from old age daily, covid or no covid.

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TD_Covfefe_Crusader 1 point ago +1 / -0

Yep, just like polar bears were immortal before muh climate change.

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NvJohansson 19 points ago +19 / -0

This is exactly like the 2003 Heatwave in France. 14000 people died in August and everybody freaked out when most of them were sick and over 75. It usually never gets that hot so old folks homes rarely had air conditioning. But then they realized that in September 14 000 thousand people less than usual died... so all this did was push the sickest in the most frail over the hill one month ahead of their time.

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GingerMinky 4 points ago +4 / -0

Yep!

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anon31173 -8 points ago +3 / -11

there has been excess death during the covid period so far, so unfortunately thats not the case

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GingerMinky 11 points ago +11 / -0

I went and looked. There hasn’t.

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GingerMinky 3 points ago +3 / -0

Go look for my link. It came out today only 10,000 died from CONVIRUS the rest had 2 to 3 serious ailments mine linked the actual death counts and rise per year.

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anon31173 -3 points ago +2 / -5

im not arguing against the point youre making. all i meant to say is that there is excess death and thus kung flu cant have no impact at all

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GingerMinky 4 points ago +4 / -0

10,000...a blip

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Nietzscheese 1 point ago +1 / -0

It's likely that COVID had an impact but one of the concerns of the excess deaths statistic is that that lockdown caused deaths itself. We know depression and drug abuse soared due to social isolation and unemployment. People weren't getting routine medical care either because they were to scared to go to the doctor or the treatment was deemed nonessential. You can't assume that every excess death in this time period is because of COVID.

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anon31173 1 point ago +1 / -0

yes i totally agree with this

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mykillk 33 points ago +33 / -0

Not to mention most of the "positives" are false positives so they likely didn't have the virus at all.

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Watermelons 9 points ago +9 / -0

This right here. Specificity of the influenza b is 0.941 and sensitivity approx 1.00. With those numbers and a positive test ratio of 8%, the probability of having the disease given a positive test is around 28%. That means approximately 72% of positive tests are false positive. This is assuming that the pcr test for Covid is as good as the annual influenza b pcr test.

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mykillk 19 points ago +19 / -0

New York Times just reported yesterday that likely 70-90% are false positives

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

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Watermelons 6 points ago +6 / -0

Good. I've been saying this shit for months. My only post here details why you don't test Willy nilly. It's so stupid.

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kjj9 4 points ago +4 / -0

No surprise here, but the NYT article is really, really dumb. No one involved in writing that understands the situation.

RRT-PCR tests have very few false positives as long as you understand the question it is answering - is this RNA sample present or not? If the test was designed well, and carried out carefully, it is essentially zero.

But, the presense of that RNA strand is not that useful. Lots of people think of infection as a binary condition. You are not infected, then the virus shows up, and now you are infected.

But that isn't reality. The surface of your respiratry system is composed of billions of cells that are largely autonomous and independent. Say a single infectious particle lands on one of those cells and infects it. Does that make you (the organism) infected?

Not necessarily.

You are only infected when enough of your cells are infected that new cells get infected from locally produced virus particles than are being destroyed by your immune system. If you are exposed to a small viral load, your immune system has a good chance to fight off a small number of infected cells without the chain reaction happening.

So, the RRT-PCR test tells you if the virus is present or not, but it doesn't tell if the organism is infected, and it doesn't tell if the virus is coming or going.

For epidemic tracking, the binary present/not-present test is exactly what they need. The cycle counts would be counterproductive for those purpose. But for treating that specific patient, and for advising them, it could be very helpful.

People, particularly asymptomatic people, are often advised to get a second test a few days later to confirm an initial positive. But you want to initiate contact tracing based on that initial test regardless of the outcome of that second test.

TL;DR - journalists are not competent to convey any complexity or nuance, so virtually everything that anyone has read about COVID is actually making them less well informed, not more.

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mykillk 2 points ago +2 / -0

Isn't it true that some of the genetic material picked up by the PCR tests could have come from other related viruses like the common colds and flus?

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kjj9 1 point ago +1 / -0

Well, technically, the answer to your question is probably "yes", but that's not relevant.

The testing used here is RRT-PCR. R means real time, RT means reverse transcriptase. PCR means polymerase chain reaction.

Reverse Transcriptase means that you use an ezyme to make a double stranded version of the RNA that you are looking at. For this discussion, we can ignore it - it just means that you are starting with RNA instead of DNA.

PCR is a standard DNA copying mechanism. Polymerase will copy DNA fragments that are presented to it with the appropriate markers attached. The markers are gene sequences with enzymes attached.

So, if you have a segment that you want to copy, you find unique portions on either side of what you want, and you create the complementary version, and you attach the appropriate enzymes to them.

You manufacture many copies of your markers, and put them in a solution along with polymerase. If you add to that solution some DNA, and if that DNA contains sections that complement that markers that you've created, those markers will attach, and the polymerase will run zip through the marked section making a copy.

Real Time means that there is a third part of the test, a Fluorescent dye. Fluorescent means that when it absorbs one wavelength of light, it will emit a different wavelength. So, at the end of each cycle, they illuminate the test wells with the excitation wavelength, and look carefully for the emission wavelength. Typically, we use a dye that gets less efficient when the molecule is bent by being closely coupled to a matching DNA strand.

So, our test solution contains: a start marker that binds to a specific gene sequence, an end marker that binds to a specific gene sequnce, a dye that binds to a specific gene sequence, and the helper chemicals (polymerase, reverse transcriptase, etc).

A real test will have several of these test mixtures, designed to match different sequences. What takes so much time after the virus genome seequnce is published is the search for suitable sequences. You have some tens of thousands of genes to look at, and you want to find about six sets of three sequences. You want them to be specific to this virus, meaning that they aren't found in other viruses or organisms, and you want them to be parts that haven't mutated as the virus is spreading.

Testing is done by preparing a plate. One of the most common plates has a grid of 8x12=96 wells and can be used to test 12 people. All of the wells in the first and last columns are prepared with positive and negative controls, and the middle six cells are prepared with (up to) 6 test solutions.

Then each patient's sample is applied to all of the wells in one row (except the negative control). The loaded plate is placed in a realtime PCR machine. The machine then heats the plate, and cools it, then it hits it with light and measures how much fluorescene is found in each well.

The positive control cell will replicate on every cycle and is used to confirm that PCR is happening. The negative control cell will replicate if there is any contamination and is used to suggest the proper procedures were followed by the lab technician - if it reacts, the plate should be thrown out and those tests should be re-run.

Since you can look for up to 6 sequences per test, you can make a few of them broader. So, you could have one column set up to basically detect some sequence common to the whole coronavirus family. In that case, someone with a cold would trigger that well, but not all of them. The overall test would be "ncov-19 negative", because the more-specific subtests didn't acivate. But it would technically be true that "some of the genetic material picked up by the PCR tests could have come from other related viruses".

There are some imperfections in these tests. It is common for some wells to activate a little bit. You normally plot the intensity of all of the wells by cycle count. The curves for the matching wells will be much, much faster than the curves for the spurious activations. Labs typically handle this by calling any curve that isn't exceedingly obvious a failure, which triggers a re-test.

But there also isn't a comprehensive catalogue of all gene sequences that might be out there, so it is possible for a test to inadvertantly be set up to trigger on something harmless. They try to make the tested sequences as long as possible in an attempt to reduce the odds of that happening.

After the sequence was published, labs around the world set about working on these tests. It takes time to dig through the genes looking for good fragments to test for, which is why it took a week or more for the first tests to start showing up.

This process is also imperfect. A lab may accidentally pick a sequence that isn't specific enough, or that is part of a region that mutates. They may also pick spots that for whatever reason it is difficult to manufacture the markers or dye for.

That last one, production problems, happened in the US. That's half of the reason why our tests lagged behind early on. The other half is because our regulatory structure had created a monoculture. There were about a half dozen other US labs that had working tests at the time, but none of them could be put into production because the FDA approval process was designed around one specific lab. And by random bad luck, that one lab picked a marker sequence that couldn't be reliably mass produced. (Eventually Trump had to step in and order the FDA to practively work with other labs to get their tests approved.)

Sorry if this is too long. I know it goes far beyond merely answering your question. Back when testing was a big topic, I spent a week learning about it in as much detail as I could, all the way through downloading lab manuals for some of the tests and then looking up the biology jargon used in them, and what the lab techniques looked like.

TL;DR - No, the common cold is not fooling our PCR tests.

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deleted 26 points ago +26 / -0
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PropagandaWizard1984 11 points ago +11 / -0

No No NO! Silly pede! The Covid hoax only applies when the evil Dems want to apply it. Like closing down your small business or forcing you into pods. When drugged out Covid infected joggers OD underneath a police officer that's murder!!!! See how Clown World works now??

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kjj9 2 points ago +2 / -0

GF had quantum COVID. When the left wants to accuse the police of racism, the COVID meant nothing. When the left wants to accuse everyone else of racism, he's one of the black people disproportionately killed by COVID.

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PropagandaWizard1984 3 points ago +3 / -0

Based and Schrödinger pilled!

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Staatssicherheit 10 points ago +10 / -0

No one dies just of covid. It's usually a resulting viral pneumonia that kills them. The 6% of death certificates that do not list anything other than covid is actually a lazy, documentation error that should never happen.

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Trumpbooty 1 point ago +1 / -0

So..which virus causes the pneumonia that kills them? Could it be.......coronavirus?!?!

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deleted 10 points ago +10 / -0
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NativeNorCal 9 points ago +9 / -0

Per David Atkins logic, we lock down 350 million people to protect those with comorbidities rather than keeping the nation open and isolating and protecting those with the comorbidities.

David Atkins logic only works for MSM pretend journalists, gov't workers, and pensioners who get checks no matter what.

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deleted 7 points ago +7 / -0
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PropagandaWizard1984 4 points ago +4 / -0

Well you see, the Covid made those people in car accidents extra sleepy...or maybe just distracted from a cough. So you see without the Covid they would never have had the car accident. That's why they are also Covid deaths.

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utfanx2 7 points ago +7 / -0

Only 2.7% of 18-45 year olds have diabetes.

Pandemic: occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population

Exceptionally high proportion your ass. (I don't talk about my ass)

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PropagandaWizard1984 7 points ago +7 / -0

Covid-19 was the "straw that broke the camel's back" for these VERY sick people. It's just as likely that the common cold would have killed these people, or some other virus.

Remember they said millions would die, they said children will die, they said the healthy would die, they said no one would be spared. THIS WAS COMPLETELY FALSE!

I literally found so many logical fallacies in David Atkins' post it would be too many to list. Needless to say the man is a fool and a fucking sheeple.

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Siteless_Vagrant [S] 7 points ago +7 / -0

Remember the videos coming out of China back in January? People falling over dead in the street, blood pouring out of mouths and noses, hospital hallways lined with the dead, pigs being burned in pits by the thousands, that was all supposed to be happening here, but... um... "SHUT UP AND WEAR YOUR MASK CITIZEN" instead.

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PropagandaWizard1984 5 points ago +5 / -0

That was all a PsyOp from China I am convinced. China was reporting 3-10% mortality rates at the time. The CCP are masters of propaganda and played the world quite well indeed. Don't think the CCP didn't use the propaganda for domestic purposes either. They needed a way to attack the US economy and they got it with Covid.

I have always said the CCP released Covid knowing it was only a "bad flu" and planned this whole fucking thing. Including the civil unrest from jobless masses.

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Siteless_Vagrant [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

That was all a PsyOp from China

 

Yep. One question I kept asking is why does all the footage look like it was recorded on 240p Video Cassette recorder? The usual answer I got was they don't have great internet and have to upload small files (But 5G, tho? In the middle of a huge ass city like Wuhan?) None of it made sense. Spotting propaganda should be tought from 8th grade on.

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TheThreeSeashells 7 points ago +7 / -0

Oh, I've been dropping this bomb all over social media since it came out. The only good false narrative is a debunked and dead false narrative. I'm doing my part!

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Taylor814ce 6 points ago +6 / -0

A roofer on Florida was struck by lightning while repairing a roof and he was labeled as a COVID death

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MrAlwaysRight 3 points ago +3 / -0

The issue is virtually every other country in the world only considers Covid 19 death if it is the single cause and it was known they had it at the time.

So if you are going to compare the US to other countries you have to do the same standard of measurement.

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_Sully_ 3 points ago +3 / -0

The number one cause of death for end of life old farts is pneumonia. That cause of death has gone to zero during the pandemic. Do these people die from pneumonia? No. They die because they are old as shit and their body can't fight infections.

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latsbruh 3 points ago +3 / -0

so if a man was shot, say...7 times for grabbing a knife after raping someone, then gets covid in the hospital, the cops are in the clear even more than they already were?

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Flahusky 3 points ago +3 / -0

Dems: we have to trust the CDC - the numbers are real and we must shut everything down! Also dems: we cant trust the CDC with these numbers! Orange man made them change it!

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WhoKilledSethRich 2 points ago +2 / -0

FYI, tests are not for covid. They test for coronavirus. Covid is a disease that can occur if you have a coronavirus. Be careful not to equate them

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TGNX 2 points ago +2 / -0

Uh, OP in the pic just played himself.

If they have diabetes and heart disease, then they have comorbidities.

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Savage2000 2 points ago +2 / -0

Seriously. It’s pretty close to the normal death rates per year. They just tied covid to it because hospitals get a bonus payout for accepting covid patients and letting them die on their hands

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midareashi 2 points ago +2 / -0

How do other countries count their death numbers?

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CommieCrats 2 points ago +4 / -2

6% pu,pu,pushit realgood

dun.dan nun da. nun danunana nun.

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bigbootyhoes 1 point ago +1 / -0

Fyi, every single death in a hospital is reviewed. In really good research hospitals it is by a team of doctors, nurses, and data analysts. Sometimes it gets heated and there is always a primary cause of death determined. Along with secondary, tertiary, etc factors. There is a lot of fuckery going on I promise you.