Calvanism is not synonymous with a lack of free will, I personally find Calvinism to be compelling and reject the notion that my choices are not my own to make.
With that said, there is a paradox within Calvinism, but I believe that it's because of the infinite qualities of God that our human minds cannot fully understand.
I'm suggesting that predeterminism doesn't negate free will. Free will is simply your ability to choose between different options, which is completely biblical.
As for the paradox, how is man saved? By faith through grace. But faith is a gift from God. God draws near to us. God knocks. Nobody seeks God, God seeks us. I'm a Christian because God chose me, but if I didn't choose him I'd be damned. I consider this a paradox.
What your referring to isn't paradoxical in Theology. Another way I've heard it put is that man is a child waiting by the window for the Father to show up but you must go to Him
I'm not a fan of the analogy because he's already his father, if you're an unbeliever and don't know God he's not yet your father, so it begs the question a little, but I'll steelman you and accept the gist of what you're saying.
My problem is that we don't seek God and that God draws near to us, it's not the other way around. I've done zero to earn my salvation, if it wasn't for Christ calling me I would not be saved, so in a sense, it's out of my control. But, if I didn't choose Christ it would be just that I pay for my sins because I'm a degenerate.
Look into the BIBLE...Romans 8: 29: "For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of of His Son...".This is NOT something Augustine or Calvin made up...It is biblical. It matters not whether we like it or disagree with it. The only thing that matters is whether or not we accept the Bile as God's Word.
see also: Acts 4:28; Romans 8: 30; Ephesians 1: 5; Ephesians 1: 11.
I think I am more interested in what the Bible has to say than some Preacher on YT.
Predestination is a biblical Doctrine. Many Scripture references are on this thread.
You're right, I forgot what the Ethiopian said to Philip the evangelist — "I don't need a preacher's guidance 'cause I can read the Bible myself and understand everything without your help".
Right…
I was trying to be helpful, since it looks like you have calvinist ideas. Recommending a book means I idolize its author? Wow! That's kindergarten-level logic.
If we didn't have a choice, Christ's sacrifice would not be necessary.
Calvanist predeterminism is so antithetical to much of normal sects doctrine that you aren't going to find much support for it.
What good is repentance, baptism, let alone going to church if all is predetermined?
I do believe the overall cycle of history could be said to be predetermined, but not individual choices... That more or less entirely negates the Son.
Calvanism is not synonymous with a lack of free will, I personally find Calvinism to be compelling and reject the notion that my choices are not my own to make.
With that said, there is a paradox within Calvinism, but I believe that it's because of the infinite qualities of God that our human minds cannot fully understand.
Look into predeterminism. It's almost exclusively Calvinist to my knowledge.
Outside of the caveat if my previous comment, there is no paradox I'm aware of.
> can't understand God
Augustinian... That's common doctrine... I disagree with it, though.
I'm suggesting that predeterminism doesn't negate free will. Free will is simply your ability to choose between different options, which is completely biblical.
As for the paradox, how is man saved? By faith through grace. But faith is a gift from God. God draws near to us. God knocks. Nobody seeks God, God seeks us. I'm a Christian because God chose me, but if I didn't choose him I'd be damned. I consider this a paradox.
It's specifically a negation of free will.
What your referring to isn't paradoxical in Theology. Another way I've heard it put is that man is a child waiting by the window for the Father to show up but you must go to Him
I'm not a fan of the analogy because he's already his father, if you're an unbeliever and don't know God he's not yet your father, so it begs the question a little, but I'll steelman you and accept the gist of what you're saying.
My problem is that we don't seek God and that God draws near to us, it's not the other way around. I've done zero to earn my salvation, if it wasn't for Christ calling me I would not be saved, so in a sense, it's out of my control. But, if I didn't choose Christ it would be just that I pay for my sins because I'm a degenerate.
How do you personally square these two ideas?
Look into the BIBLE...Romans 8: 29: "For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of of His Son...".This is NOT something Augustine or Calvin made up...It is biblical. It matters not whether we like it or disagree with it. The only thing that matters is whether or not we accept the Bile as God's Word. see also: Acts 4:28; Romans 8: 30; Ephesians 1: 5; Ephesians 1: 11.
> for those
Yes, that does say some are predetermined; but not all
> accept God's word
That would be a choice 😉
It's the Theology you're preaching bro. Get to cracking open that Bible!
K. Not dismissing your conclusion, just dont think you should have led with that statement I guess
We're not clay robots, and Calvinism is a twisted misinterpretation of the sovereignty of God, the result of the bad influence Augustin had on Calvin.
There is plenty of material on YouTube that explains this, for instance Dave Hunt's book 'What Love Is This?':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nl5jN9Uw58&t=5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiAqCDJGEGM
I think I am more interested in what the Bible has to say than some Preacher on YT. Predestination is a biblical Doctrine. Many Scripture references are on this thread.
You're right, I forgot what the Ethiopian said to Philip the evangelist — "I don't need a preacher's guidance 'cause I can read the Bible myself and understand everything without your help". Right…
Man… take your time to listen to Dave Hunt's book and don't get into theological discussions until you do.
Wisdom is there, go get it.
Take care.
Ignorance and pride is a terrible combination…
I was trying to be helpful, since it looks like you have calvinist ideas. Recommending a book means I idolize its author? Wow! That's kindergarten-level logic.