also gun law is really labyrinthine. In my state someone under 18 couldnt buy a rifle... but older law allowed transfers within immediate family. So; a kid could still have an AR if a parent gave it to them. Hardly anyone realized that including police. But that was the law....
Yes this here is such a problem. I have always tried so hard to stay rigidly on the line of legal, guns ammo etc. I have spent so much time and money educating myself and complying. And the laws are written to intentionally leave so much gray, that on any day you can be arrested on "interpretation" its such a huge problem.
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
and this is the problem more than any other! it's by design, as most who have gone into political office over the last half century have served at some point or another as an attorney
if your government is made up of lawyers, the laws will soon be written only in legalese so that they can enrich themselves and their brothers and sisters by ensuring if you don't want to go to jail for violating some bullshit directive, you need to hire a team of lawyers to translate the word salad for you into english.
There's something deeply immoral about laws that govern average men written in a manner which is incomprehensible to the governed. Legalese is not English. If it were, it wouldn't require a specialized dictionary. We may as well be ruled by laws written in latin or chinese.
The exception applies only for those "in compliance with" the the hunting law statute. Which means he had to actively be on a hunt with an adult or undergoing instruction. Or 16, 17 who have "obtained" a WI hunting license. Going armed under any other circumstances not in compliance with the hunting/practice regs means the exception no longer applies. It is a temporary and situational exception that expires. He wasn't hunting or accompanied by the "responsible adult" or licensed, so he was not "in compliance" with the exception.
In my state the DEC law is incorporated into the CPL - for instance the ban on loaded shotguns and rifles in a car is only written in the hunting admin law but enforced in cities where no hunting even exists.
No the law is not silent on 16-17 year olds. It says they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license to furthermore hunt or carry their firearm unsupervised. So anyone not hunting with or undergoing instruction with an adult, or with a hunting license is not actively "in compliance" with the hunting law exception. The exception to the general under 18 rule is entirely contingent on having obtained a hunting license or being under 16 with a responsible adult.
So essentially a WI hunting license is almost, but not quite, a long-gun open carry license for 16-17 year olds.
If they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license in order to carry their firearm unsupervised, they wouldn't have to be actively hunting. All they would need is the license itself.
Even then, given that he was surrounded by other people (of which most if not all were over 18) who were doing the same thing he was, one could easily fulfill the requirement of supervision. Nowhere does the law state that a "responsible adult" must be the owner of the gun or be a person that was known by the subject prior to the incident invovling the gun.
948.60, 948.60(3)(c)(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
941.28(1)(b)(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
note: Kyle Rittenhouse was carrying an AR-15, standard model average barrel length 16" and overall length 35".
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes.
§246. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
also gun law is really labyrinthine. In my state someone under 18 couldnt buy a rifle... but older law allowed transfers within immediate family. So; a kid could still have an AR if a parent gave it to them. Hardly anyone realized that including police. But that was the law....
That is a natural result of legislators who want to micromanage human behavior with stacks of laws.
The goal is to make sure you're always violating some obscure law, so that those who step out of line can be targeted via selective enforcement.
Honestly, what's the difference between "rule of a billion obscure laws you're always guilty of" and "rule of the arbitrary whims of a king"?
The Pharisees and Sadducees did the same thing.
They took the 10 Commandments and turned them into 613.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
Then they charged you for the right to bypass their impossible set of laws.
Sound familiar?
613 was for the entire Pentateuch, including all the dietary regulations and other religious laws.
Huh. So you're not saying it's the Juice.....But it's the Juice?
Yes this here is such a problem. I have always tried so hard to stay rigidly on the line of legal, guns ammo etc. I have spent so much time and money educating myself and complying. And the laws are written to intentionally leave so much gray, that on any day you can be arrested on "interpretation" its such a huge problem.
--Ayn Rand
and this is the problem more than any other! it's by design, as most who have gone into political office over the last half century have served at some point or another as an attorney
if your government is made up of lawyers, the laws will soon be written only in legalese so that they can enrich themselves and their brothers and sisters by ensuring if you don't want to go to jail for violating some bullshit directive, you need to hire a team of lawyers to translate the word salad for you into english.
complete bullshit
There's something deeply immoral about laws that govern average men written in a manner which is incomprehensible to the governed. Legalese is not English. If it were, it wouldn't require a specialized dictionary. We may as well be ruled by laws written in latin or chinese.
Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite.
"Also gun law is... always unconstitutional." FTFY
His lawyer is actually just being a good lawyer and bending the truth with specific hunting law exceptions about 16 year olds that don't apply here. It wasn't legal for him to carry a long gun, you must be 18. Pg 5 second paragraph. But who cares. That's going to get tossed with the rest of the bullshit charges against this hero.
You're wrong. Exceptions exist for rifles and shotguns. Read the relevant laws.
Look through my post history.
The exception applies only for those "in compliance with" the the hunting law statute. Which means he had to actively be on a hunt with an adult or undergoing instruction. Or 16, 17 who have "obtained" a WI hunting license. Going armed under any other circumstances not in compliance with the hunting/practice regs means the exception no longer applies. It is a temporary and situational exception that expires. He wasn't hunting or accompanied by the "responsible adult" or licensed, so he was not "in compliance" with the exception.
Don't downvote the ignorant, educate them.
To the commenter: read it again.
There are two exceptions, 29.304:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/iv/304
and 29.593:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/viii/593
29.304 only applies to people under age 16. But note that it contains clauses for both:
Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm
Restrictions on hunting
Now, go look at 29.593. It only contains:
Requirement for certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval.
For age 16 and 17, there are no restrictions on possession or control of a firearm. It only requires the certificate for hunting.
Where did you read that in 29.593?
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/viii/593
In my state the DEC law is incorporated into the CPL - for instance the ban on loaded shotguns and rifles in a car is only written in the hunting admin law but enforced in cities where no hunting even exists.
Yeah, I’m gonna listen to the lawyer over a random internet guy. Thanks though.
You're wrong
I broke this down with other lawyer pedes regarding the possession by a minor.
I understand your confusion, someone helped me out with it too.
https://thedonald.win/p/GvTrsNq5/x/c/16ZE9Gufd0?d=50
No the law is not silent on 16-17 year olds. It says they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license to furthermore hunt or carry their firearm unsupervised. So anyone not hunting with or undergoing instruction with an adult, or with a hunting license is not actively "in compliance" with the hunting law exception. The exception to the general under 18 rule is entirely contingent on having obtained a hunting license or being under 16 with a responsible adult.
So essentially a WI hunting license is almost, but not quite, a long-gun open carry license for 16-17 year olds.
You're completely ignoring part 3.
Which says none of it applies unless it's an sbr.
The hunting section doesn't even enter the argument
Betcha he's got one
If they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license in order to carry their firearm unsupervised, they wouldn't have to be actively hunting. All they would need is the license itself.
Even then, given that he was surrounded by other people (of which most if not all were over 18) who were doing the same thing he was, one could easily fulfill the requirement of supervision. Nowhere does the law state that a "responsible adult" must be the owner of the gun or be a person that was known by the subject prior to the incident invovling the gun.
You didn't read it. I already made it easy for you with a summary at bottom of the link.
Go to 3c of the statute then. It's not contingent. The exception eats the rule once you hit 16.
That's incorrect, Under federal law, with certain exceptions, a person under age 18 is generally prohibited from possessing a handgun.
Kyle Rittenhouse was not carrying a handgun.
And WI law 948.60 "helpfully" infringes further on long guns under 18 if they aren't exempted by meeting specific hunting regulations.
948.60, 948.60(3)(c)(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
941.28(1)(b)(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
note: Kyle Rittenhouse was carrying an AR-15, standard model average barrel length 16" and overall length 35".
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes.
§246. Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Read the law more carefully. It ONLY applies to short-barreled rifles, not long guns.
No, you have it inverted, it prohibits short barrel. Will Chamberlain already did the live read legal review of WI possession laws.
You know they did a good job when even gun-loving, well intentioned 'Pedes can't agree on what the law is.
--MISSION CONSTITUTION OVERRIDE ACCOMPLISHED--
I think we're in agreement... the law only prohibits short-barrels, therefore Kyle was legal in possessing a long gun.