The exception applies only for those "in compliance with" the the hunting law statute. Which means he had to actively be on a hunt with an adult or undergoing instruction. Or 16, 17 who have "obtained" a WI hunting license. Going armed under any other circumstances not in compliance with the hunting/practice regs means the exception no longer applies. It is a temporary and situational exception that expires. He wasn't hunting or accompanied by the "responsible adult" or licensed, so he was not "in compliance" with the exception.
948.60 section 3 exempts rifles and shotguns (that are not short barreled) from "firearms" prohibited to those under 18, IF and only IF they are "in compliance" with the hunting regs. You're right though that 29.593 cited in section 3 wouldn't mean they have to have the actual hunting approval (license), just that they meet one of the requirements to obtain one. Unfortunately the likely out-of-state qualifications Kyle might have seem kind of discretionary as to their acceptance... So 16-17 year olds have to be "in compliance" with eligibility requirements for obtaining a hunting license for the long gun exception to apply.
Maybe Kyle might meet requirements, and his lawyer can certainly stretch that possibility after the fact, but he's certainly not explicitly "in compliance" with what we know. It's safe to say the law, infringement it may be, is certainly intended to prohibit non-hunters under 18 from open carry.
In my state the DEC law is incorporated into the CPL - for instance the ban on loaded shotguns and rifles in a car is only written in the hunting admin law but enforced in cities where no hunting even exists.
Yeah, you've a vice versa of this case where a loophole was added by republicans for supervised or qualified young shooters to be exempted from a democrat infringement. In your example the democrats salted your hunting laws with poison pills like a loaded gun in car ban that can be exploited elsewhere. That's what passes for "compromise".
948.60 section 3c "This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if.. (it is short barreled) ..or not in compliance with ss. 29.304(under 16 supervised hunting/practice) and 29.593 (meets requirement to obtain hunters license)."
So anyone 16-17 has to meet 29.593 requirement (compliance) to gain section 3c exemption of long barreled rifles and shotguns from the 948.60(2a) under 18 firearm prohibition.
No the law is not silent on 16-17 year olds. It says they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license to furthermore hunt or carry their firearm unsupervised. So anyone not hunting with or undergoing instruction with an adult, or with a hunting license is not actively "in compliance" with the hunting law exception. The exception to the general under 18 rule is entirely contingent on having obtained a hunting license or being under 16 with a responsible adult.
So essentially a WI hunting license is almost, but not quite, a long-gun open carry license for 16-17 year olds.
No section three exempts rifles and shotguns from "firearms" unless it is short barreled, or unless the person is not actively "in compliance" with the hunting law, which means hunting license or adult supervision.
Basically no hunting law "compliance" no exemption.
it would be smart - i have never hunted in my life but i have my hunting license as it covers me for more situations under the law when it comes to firearm "privileges"
If they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license in order to carry their firearm unsupervised, they wouldn't have to be actively hunting. All they would need is the license itself.
Even then, given that he was surrounded by other people (of which most if not all were over 18) who were doing the same thing he was, one could easily fulfill the requirement of supervision. Nowhere does the law state that a "responsible adult" must be the owner of the gun or be a person that was known by the subject prior to the incident invovling the gun.
948.60, 948.60(3)(c)(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
941.28(1)(b)(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
note: Kyle Rittenhouse was carrying an AR-15, standard model average barrel length 16" and overall length 35".
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes.
§246. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Wouldn't it be nice if the law was written clearly and concisely? Something along the lines of "The right of the people to keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed." Something like that should be allot less confusing.
No there is only an exception on long guns for those actively "in compliance" with the hunting law, those under 16 hunting or under instruction with an adult, or 16 & 17 year olds who have "obtained" (are eligible for) a WI hunter's license. No compliance, no exception.
His lawyer is actually just being a good lawyer and bending the truth with specific hunting law exceptions about 16 year olds that don't apply here. It wasn't legal for him to carry a long gun, you must be 18. Pg 5 second paragraph. But who cares. That's going to get tossed with the rest of the bullshit charges against this hero.
You're wrong. Exceptions exist for rifles and shotguns. Read the relevant laws.
Look through my post history.
The exception applies only for those "in compliance with" the the hunting law statute. Which means he had to actively be on a hunt with an adult or undergoing instruction. Or 16, 17 who have "obtained" a WI hunting license. Going armed under any other circumstances not in compliance with the hunting/practice regs means the exception no longer applies. It is a temporary and situational exception that expires. He wasn't hunting or accompanied by the "responsible adult" or licensed, so he was not "in compliance" with the exception.
Don't downvote the ignorant, educate them.
To the commenter: read it again.
There are two exceptions, 29.304:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/iv/304
and 29.593:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/viii/593
29.304 only applies to people under age 16. But note that it contains clauses for both:
Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm
Restrictions on hunting
Now, go look at 29.593. It only contains:
Requirement for certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval.
For age 16 and 17, there are no restrictions on possession or control of a firearm. It only requires the certificate for hunting.
Where did you read that in 29.593?
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/viii/593
948.60 section 3 exempts rifles and shotguns (that are not short barreled) from "firearms" prohibited to those under 18, IF and only IF they are "in compliance" with the hunting regs. You're right though that 29.593 cited in section 3 wouldn't mean they have to have the actual hunting approval (license), just that they meet one of the requirements to obtain one. Unfortunately the likely out-of-state qualifications Kyle might have seem kind of discretionary as to their acceptance... So 16-17 year olds have to be "in compliance" with eligibility requirements for obtaining a hunting license for the long gun exception to apply.
Maybe Kyle might meet requirements, and his lawyer can certainly stretch that possibility after the fact, but he's certainly not explicitly "in compliance" with what we know. It's safe to say the law, infringement it may be, is certainly intended to prohibit non-hunters under 18 from open carry.
In my state the DEC law is incorporated into the CPL - for instance the ban on loaded shotguns and rifles in a car is only written in the hunting admin law but enforced in cities where no hunting even exists.
Yeah, you've a vice versa of this case where a loophole was added by republicans for supervised or qualified young shooters to be exempted from a democrat infringement. In your example the democrats salted your hunting laws with poison pills like a loaded gun in car ban that can be exploited elsewhere. That's what passes for "compromise".
948.60 section 3c "This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if.. (it is short barreled) ..or not in compliance with ss. 29.304(under 16 supervised hunting/practice) and 29.593 (meets requirement to obtain hunters license)."
So anyone 16-17 has to meet 29.593 requirement (compliance) to gain section 3c exemption of long barreled rifles and shotguns from the 948.60(2a) under 18 firearm prohibition.
Yeah, I’m gonna listen to the lawyer over a random internet guy. Thanks though.
You're wrong
I broke this down with other lawyer pedes regarding the possession by a minor.
I understand your confusion, someone helped me out with it too.
https://thedonald.win/p/GvTrsNq5/x/c/16ZE9Gufd0?d=50
No the law is not silent on 16-17 year olds. It says they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license to furthermore hunt or carry their firearm unsupervised. So anyone not hunting with or undergoing instruction with an adult, or with a hunting license is not actively "in compliance" with the hunting law exception. The exception to the general under 18 rule is entirely contingent on having obtained a hunting license or being under 16 with a responsible adult.
So essentially a WI hunting license is almost, but not quite, a long-gun open carry license for 16-17 year olds.
You're completely ignoring part 3.
Which says none of it applies unless it's an sbr.
The hunting section doesn't even enter the argument
No section three exempts rifles and shotguns from "firearms" unless it is short barreled, or unless the person is not actively "in compliance" with the hunting law, which means hunting license or adult supervision.
Basically no hunting law "compliance" no exemption.
Betcha he's got one
I think the lawyer would have said.
it would be smart - i have never hunted in my life but i have my hunting license as it covers me for more situations under the law when it comes to firearm "privileges"
If they have to "obtain" a WI hunting license in order to carry their firearm unsupervised, they wouldn't have to be actively hunting. All they would need is the license itself.
Even then, given that he was surrounded by other people (of which most if not all were over 18) who were doing the same thing he was, one could easily fulfill the requirement of supervision. Nowhere does the law state that a "responsible adult" must be the owner of the gun or be a person that was known by the subject prior to the incident invovling the gun.
You didn't read it. I already made it easy for you with a summary at bottom of the link.
Go to 3c of the statute then. It's not contingent. The exception eats the rule once you hit 16.
That's incorrect, Under federal law, with certain exceptions, a person under age 18 is generally prohibited from possessing a handgun.
Kyle Rittenhouse was not carrying a handgun.
And WI law 948.60 "helpfully" infringes further on long guns under 18 if they aren't exempted by meeting specific hunting regulations.
948.60, 948.60(3)(c)(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
941.28(1)(b)(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
note: Kyle Rittenhouse was carrying an AR-15, standard model average barrel length 16" and overall length 35".
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes.
§246. Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Read the law more carefully. It ONLY applies to short-barreled rifles, not long guns.
No, you have it inverted, it prohibits short barrel. Will Chamberlain already did the live read legal review of WI possession laws.
You know they did a good job when even gun-loving, well intentioned 'Pedes can't agree on what the law is.
--MISSION CONSTITUTION OVERRIDE ACCOMPLISHED--
Wouldn't it be nice if the law was written clearly and concisely? Something along the lines of "The right of the people to keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed." Something like that should be allot less confusing.
I think we're in agreement... the law only prohibits short-barrels, therefore Kyle was legal in possessing a long gun.
No there is only an exception on long guns for those actively "in compliance" with the hunting law, those under 16 hunting or under instruction with an adult, or 16 & 17 year olds who
have "obtained"(are eligible for) a WI hunter's license. No compliance, no exception.https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60/2/a